Why both DR and SR will never work properly :(

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Roxanne

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United States
Good evening,

I know there are already a lot of similar Threads like this one (especially even more since the last update) and I know the Title for this Thread may beeing a little bit "clickbaity" but I think I can explain why both DR and SR rating Systems will be doomed to failure in future. Sure, Polyphony Digital can release more and more updates for this game to fix these problems but maybe we can use this Thread here as a "Brainstorming" place where we can discuss our opinions about this rating Systems, what works fine, what needs to be fixed etc. (I know there is even for this one a Thread available but I would like to discuss this in a "technical view" with you).


DR
To explain this, I need to introduce myself at first. I know for myself that I'm not a good and quick driver like others and Gran Turismo 6 was my first GT Title, so I came very early in this Business. But I make an effort for every race and even I need to play this Game with the standard DualShock 4 Controller (with using the "X" Button for accelerate and all Driving Aids activated), I was satisfied with my performance and I managed to achieve a DR rank with a middle "B" and a SR with "S" (for the last one I was very proud, until today's races but this will come later).

So, with my introduction, I already explained why the DR ranking system won't work but I will get now into some details:
- I playeed this Game now for every day since Day 1 and I also made every online race from all 4 Test Seasons
- Like everyone, I started of course with a "E" for my DR ranking
- After two days, I already jumped to a very low "C" rank
- Since I'm very bad at this Game, as I explained before, it took me about 20 days to jump from a "C" to a "B" but without winning any online race (my best race was a 3rd place but this was one of those "NASCAR-themed" races on "Blue Moon Speedway Circuit" with a lot of slipstreaming)
- On Day 21, I recognized for myself that my Driving Skills aren't even enough for winning a race against other people with a "C" rank but now I'm on "B" and I checked every day on my profile page that this little indicator is still rising for me.
- Today my indicator is somewhat on maybe 50% filled for rank "B" and I placed 19th on my second race today (which gave me 16 - yes it's SIXTEEN - points for the "Nations Cup" - wasn't even able to finish my race on the last lap).

So why then the DR will never work, you ask? Well, if I calculated this correctly, this will affect every player who isn't already at a "A" or even on a "S" rank. One will take 2 days to get a "A" rank, my humble self will maybe need 2 months to get a "A" rank but in future, everyone will be minimum rank "B" or even on rank "A". Putting them together in a online race and such "chaos pinball races" like I had for the last 3 days will be inevitable, especially on the first corner for every race.


MY DR is already on "A" and I win every race without such Problems you explained! Well, if you get already bored about this, feel free to close this Thread but not everyone is a good driver. Otherwise I would like to explain why "SR" will never work (this is even worse and worse).


SR
Other than my bad driving skills, I played every online race as fair as possible and with my "S" rank on "SR", I know it sounds selfish but I think I can say that I drive very fair for each race (yes I even overtake some cars to get from a 20th place to get on 7th place by the end of the race, so you can believe me, I drive very fair). The problem here is that this system is such unbalanced that everyone can get a "S" rank very fast (even faster as getting a good "A" rank for DR). But I can also get in Detail here:
- On my 2nd day playing this Game, I was already on a "A" rank for my SR and on the next day, I got my "S" rank #yeah
- I hold my "S" rank until today and my "S" rank was displayed in blue for every race until today.
- Since there is no indicator in the profile page like for "DR" I compared my "S" rank with my online friends every day and until last Friday, I was still on "S" rank, another one was on "A" rank and the other 26 Drivers were on "D" rank or even lower (ok maybe those with a "E" rank didn't play online).
- But since Sunday, the first race for the 4th test season, 22 of those 27 friend were now also on "S" rank and the rest of them aren't far away to get this achieved too.
- And I think this explaines that why I have since the beginning of the 4th test Season, every race is one of those "chaos pinball races" where everyone runs into another cars and even when they gets relegated to a "A" rank - two or three races later and they are back on "S" rank.
- And today was the Highlight - I started from the 6th place (my qualifing was even very bad and I had even this feeling that today is my chance to get on 1st place :P) and of course, someone runs into my car on the first corner @ Interlagos and I'm on 20th place. Fun thing is that this was even my best race. I managed to get from 20th place to the 7th place at the end of the race but with a lot of "chaos" and playing "Pinball" with another Players (this was the worst "S" ranked race I saw in this game, by far).
- The result was (I made even a photo with my iPhone if wished) = The player on 1st place got his blue "S" while every other 19 Players get a red "S" or even a red "A" at the end of the race. This is probably a new record.
- And it seems that this will be now for every race since there is a lot of "S" racers, which doesn't play fair.


So what's your problem Roxanne? If you can't drive, then **** up and go playing Mario Kart !!! Well, my problem is that there will be no "clean" races anymore when everyone can get a "S" rank for SR very easy and the fact that now I had for 30/40 days a blue "S" after every race and I get relegated to a red "A" only after two pinball-like races like today? Then I wonder why I give any effort for myself to drive as clean as possible. Yes, for nothing. :(



So what do you think, similar experiences or the total opposite? If there is some interest, I would like to discuss this with you, but please be also fair here in this Thread and not only in the Game. But if this thread is too much for you, then you can close this window or you can say that I should play another Game or you can even say to the Moderators to delete this thread, it will be ok. This was just my opinion and I ask for similar experiences and what could be better to avoid such Problems in future. Maybe you have some tips for me and maybe I'm doing something wrong but everyone is welcome in this "clean discussion."


Thanks and Best Regards

Roxanne
 
Woah wall of text! Lol
In all seriousness though you can't be that bad if you're a B for Dr, I consider myself pretty decent and I'm only a C, to be fair I only get to do maybe one or two races a day as I have a job a wife a young son and other hobbies.

I have to admit I didn't read your whole wall of text but yes the system is flawed, I could be a B if I had more time thus there will be a lot of people who are B's and A's simply because they have more time to take part in more races, so like in most video games your rank is not only an indicator of skill but an indication of how much free time you have.

As for SR it is a joke, it is far too easy to get to S, far far too easy. So ma you muppets get there just by being too slow to be involved in any action! And then when you do happen to find yourself next to them they cannot race worth a damn! It's easy to manipulate the rankings.

This is why I have decided not to participate in any of the daily sport mode races anymore and will be exclusively found in private lobbies with people I know can race clean.
 
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I wonder what would happen if after each race the participants were allowed a to vote on the sportsmanship of other drivers in that race and if that could be used to "true up" the SR. Maybe even give the "S" drivers votes more weight, or even make them the only votes that count.
 
stevenhiggster
rank is not actually an indicator of skill but an indication of how much free time you have.
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I feel you, man, but all those people with time to put in are simply getting better faster than you are. They're DR goes up as they gather more skills. It's very much an indicator of skill. It's just not an indicator of where you could be if you had more time to play.

stevenhiggster
As for SR it is a joke, it is far too easy to get to S
Click to expand...
Agreed. I have to say though, I've had very few negative experiences in Sport races, so the fact that SR is so easy to get doesn't really bother me. I understand that my experiences are not the same as everyone else's.
 
Itll never work because people are people, good or bad that works well for FPS and very constrained sports games but on the track with a dozen other cars there will never be a good overall system to keep things running well and fair.

Other than maybe some tyrannical vetting and expulsion system.
 
Loopdreams
It does work, though. Anyone who has played every other online console racer over the years would recognise this.
Click to expand...
I have and I don't recognise that at all.

The GTS system is better than nothing, but that doesn't mean it 'works' well at all.

Quite the opposite, the SR system is absurdly easy to game and isn't helped at all by a penalty system that needs to be significantly more robust.

The penalty system is a key part of the issue and can't be ignored in this. Now I know of two other titles that do this better than GTS does, and it would not take a massive change to get GTS to a better state than it is now.

First the way in which penalties are given is far too lenient, as it possible to get given penalties and simply ignore them and still gain such an advantage on others that they make no difference at the end of the race (see all the ovals for this), its also far to easy to work off slow down penalties in normal braking and cornering. This can easily be fixed as follows and should apply to contact and track cutting:

  • Don't tell the driver how long they have to slow down for, that way they can't game it as easily and will be more concerned about getting a slow down in the first place.
  • If you don't slow down within a lap and take your penalty then you get a Drive Through.
  • Cut the track more than x number of times and you get a Drive Through
  • Gain a place due to either corner cutting or heavy contact, you give the place back (regardless of how many other spots you may lose in the process), fail to do so with x amount of time, you get a Drive Through
  • Don't take your Drive Through before the start of the lat lap and you get a DQ

Now add the above to a SR system in which gaining rank is more graduated and takes more time, but dropping rank occurs at a faster pace and you end up with a much more robust system.

The only problem with the above is that while it certainly will result in cleaner races, it will potentially put off the more casual racers that PD has managed to bring on-board with GTS, so they risk switching off some of the audience they have gained.
 
Scaff
The only problem with the above is that while it certainly will result in cleaner races, it will potentially put off the more casual racers that PD has managed to bring on-board with GTS, so they risk switching off some of the audience they have gained.
Click to expand...

Yes they clearly need to keep the balance and will likely move slowly in changes. As was said in another post I think there is some subtle 'training" going on here for a community of casual racers who have been brought ip on beating the AI at any cost.

Introduction of penalties for overtaking on yellow flags should help a little in changing mindset.....no doubt there will be further tightening as move towards the April Championshios. Just look at Penalty Settings available in Time Trial etc for what they could do.
 
There are some good points for improvement above, those would be nice wishes to have implemented in the current basic system. I also find it silly that driving lines can be used in sport mode.
But this is a casual console game for the masses, I find the online racing to be the busiest and best I have ever experienced on console, and that is due to the DR SR systems affect on people. I've not seen any cheaters winning races, but that's just my experience.
 
The problem is that some people will exploit any loopholes they can. Driving can bring out the worst in people, let alone racing.....
I have lost count of the number of times I have been nudged and paid the price for doing the right thing.

I think the time penalty/ies should stay until you cross the finish line or do a pitstop drivethru penalty to wipe it. I hate getting shunted on the 1st lap only for the person who shunted me to slowly whittle away his time penality over the next few laps without any real loss of track position.

Regardless, it will never be perfect.
 
JacksHerer
There are some good points for improvement above, those would be nice wishes to have implemented in the current basic system. I also find it silly that driving lines can be used in sport mode.
But this is a casual console game for the masses, I find the online racing to be the busiest and best I have ever experienced on console, and that is due to the DR SR systems affect on people. I've not seen any cheaters winning races, but that's just my experience.
Click to expand...
Its not just cheats winning races that annoys, it cheats gaining any places from people racing clean.

The end result will be that GTS still has packed grids, but they will be packed with people who are happy to game the penalty system.

I ave two races a go last night as part of a look a the 1.06 update and in both the penalty system flaws and abuses were quite clear.

In the I3 race common practice amount at least half the grid was to lean on another car around the Kyoto track, the car and track combo makes it easy to do and the penalty system ignores it utterly.

The second was a GT3 race at Brands Hatch and I knew I was coming in forth, had a good gap of over fifth place car, had enough fuel, and yet I came in fifth because of a late divebomb on the final corner that pushed me wide and gave no penalty to the driver that did it.

The manner in which GTS handles penalties and ties it to the SR system is actually encouraging this behaviour, and normalising it, in the same way that quick-scoping became a norm in COD. They (PD) may be happy to go down that route, but the end result will not be clean races (not by the standard that either reality or even the WRS series rules from GTP), but a set of exploits that GTS on-line will come to be defined by if its not careful.
 
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I would like for PD to work out a way to get all the GTAV drivers into the same category, and those points you mentioned before would be nice if implemented.
But in my experience cheats are ego driven people and will hopefully move onto another game when they cant win even when cheating.

I entered my first nations test last night, I should have emptied my pockets first coz I got mugged everywhere. Qualified 15 as well as I could expect on one lap (due to traffic and yellow flags) but I was ahead of the only other viper. The race starts and a guy in a megane with all the aids on, dived from last place bounced through the gap between cars in the first corner and continued on leaving a trail of spinning cars. I would have liked the penalty system to explode his PS4 in his face, but I calmed down and got to the end, I think he went from S to E.
 
Are you telling me I can be DR 'S' if I play everyday for the next year or so (yay!), even if my skills don't warrant it? I thought DR was calculated via ELO or similar where you only advance up the ranks if you beat drivers who are higher than yourself.
 
elderflower
Are you telling me I can be DR 'S' if I play everyday for the next year or so (yay!), even if my skills don't warrant it? I thought DR was calculated via ELO or similar where you only advance up the ranks if you beat drivers who are higher than yourself.
Click to expand...


It does not work that way exactly.You are supposed to match up with players in the same DR (D for example).
If you finish at your starting possition or better you'll get + DR.That way you can gain DR (from D to C) rating without beating higher ranked players (C or B in my example).
The more you advance into the ranks,you'll need better performance to get +DR (that means that just finishing in your starting position will not get you the same points in DR A compared to when you raced as a DR D thus makes it "harder" to advance to DR S).
I went from DR D into DR B,in one day,without winning any races or having to beat higher ranked drivers.All races were clean from my point (no penalties or negative SR -SR was S btw-) but I dont think that had anything to do with gaining DR rating.
 
Roxanne
Good evening,

I know there are already a lot of similar Threads like this one (especially even more since the last update) and I know the Title for this Thread may beeing a little bit "clickbaity" but I think I can explain why both DR and SR rating Systems will be doomed to failure in future. Sure, Polyphony Digital can release more and more updates for this game to fix these problems but maybe we can use this Thread here as a "Brainstorming" place where we can discuss our opinions about this rating Systems, what works fine, what needs to be fixed etc. (I know there is even for this one a Thread available but I would like to discuss this in a "technical view" with you).


DR
To explain this, I need to introduce myself at first. I know for myself that I'm not a good and quick driver like others and Gran Turismo 6 was my first GT Title, so I came very early in this Business. But I make an effort for every race and even I need to play this Game with the standard DualShock 4 Controller (with using the "X" Button for accelerate and all Driving Aids activated), I was satisfied with my performance and I managed to achieve a DR rank with a middle "B" and a SR with "S" (for the last one I was very proud, until today's races but this will come later).

So, with my introduction, I already explained why the DR ranking system won't work but I will get now into some details:
- I playeed this Game now for every day since Day 1 and I also made every online race from all 4 Test Seasons
- Like everyone, I started of course with a "E" for my DR ranking
- After two days, I already jumped to a very low "C" rank
- Since I'm very bad at this Game, as I explained before, it took me about 20 days to jump from a "C" to a "B" but without winning any online race (my best race was a 3rd place but this was one of those "NASCAR-themed" races on "Blue Moon Speedway Circuit" with a lot of slipstreaming)
- On Day 21, I recognized for myself that my Driving Skills aren't even enough for winning a race against other people with a "C" rank but now I'm on "B" and I checked every day on my profile page that this little indicator is still rising for me.
- Today my indicator is somewhat on maybe 50% filled for rank "B" and I placed 19th on my second race today (which gave me 16 - yes it's SIXTEEN - points for the "Nations Cup" - wasn't even able to finish my race on the last lap).

So why then the DR will never work, you ask? Well, if I calculated this correctly, this will affect every player who isn't already at a "A" or even on a "S" rank. One will take 2 days to get a "A" rank, my humble self will maybe need 2 months to get a "A" rank but in future, everyone will be minimum rank "B" or even on rank "A". Putting them together in a online race and such "chaos pinball races" like I had for the last 3 days will be inevitable, especially on the first corner for every race.


MY DR is already on "A" and I win every race without such Problems you explained! Well, if you get already bored about this, feel free to close this Thread but not everyone is a good driver. Otherwise I would like to explain why "SR" will never work (this is even worse and worse).


SR
Other than my bad driving skills, I played every online race as fair as possible and with my "S" rank on "SR", I know it sounds selfish but I think I can say that I drive very fair for each race (yes I even overtake some cars to get from a 20th place to get on 7th place by the end of the race, so you can believe me, I drive very fair). The problem here is that this system is such unbalanced that everyone can get a "S" rank very fast (even faster as getting a good "A" rank for DR). But I can also get in Detail here:
- On my 2nd day playing this Game, I was already on a "A" rank for my SR and on the next day, I got my "S" rank #yeah
- I hold my "S" rank until today and my "S" rank was displayed in blue for every race until today.
- Since there is no indicator in the profile page like for "DR" I compared my "S" rank with my online friends every day and until last Friday, I was still on "S" rank, another one was on "A" rank and the other 26 Drivers were on "D" rank or even lower (ok maybe those with a "E" rank didn't play online).
- But since Sunday, the first race for the 4th test season, 22 of those 27 friend were now also on "S" rank and the rest of them aren't far away to get this achieved too.
- And I think this explaines that why I have since the beginning of the 4th test Season, every race is one of those "chaos pinball races" where everyone runs into another cars and even when they gets relegated to a "A" rank - two or three races later and they are back on "S" rank.
- And today was the Highlight - I started from the 6th place (my qualifing was even very bad and I had even this feeling that today is my chance to get on 1st place :P) and of course, someone runs into my car on the first corner @ Interlagos and I'm on 20th place. Fun thing is that this was even my best race. I managed to get from 20th place to the 7th place at the end of the race but with a lot of "chaos" and playing "Pinball" with another Players (this was the worst "S" ranked race I saw in this game, by far).
- The result was (I made even a photo with my iPhone if wished) = The player on 1st place got his blue "S" while every other 19 Players get a red "S" or even a red "A" at the end of the race. This is probably a new record.
- And it seems that this will be now for every race since there is a lot of "S" racers, which doesn't play fair.


So what's your problem Roxanne? If you can't drive, then **** up and go playing Mario Kart !!! Well, my problem is that there will be no "clean" races anymore when everyone can get a "S" rank for SR very easy and the fact that now I had for 30/40 days a blue "S" after every race and I get relegated to a red "A" only after two pinball-like races like today? Then I wonder why I give any effort for myself to drive as clean as possible. Yes, for nothing. :(

So what do you think, similar experiences or the total opposite? If there is some interest, I would like to discuss this with you, but please be also fair here in this Thread and not only in the Game. But if this thread is too much for you, then you can close this window or you can say that I should play another Game or you can even say to the Moderators to delete this thread, it will be ok. This was just my opinion and I ask for similar experiences and what could be better to avoid such Problems in future. Maybe you have some tips for me and maybe I'm doing something wrong but everyone is welcome in this "clean discussion."

Thanks and Best Regards

Roxanne
Click to expand...

Good, and interesting post 👍

Whatever your DR level, if your DR is improving when you're consistently finishing in the bottom half of results, something is wrong with the system... basically means as long as you finish you'll keep increasing, and eventually (might take a very long time), you would be DRS.

Increases in DR should be proportional to your finishing position - top half against a matched grid, get an increase relative to your finishing position. Finish bottom half and get a relative decrease in DR.

SR is an interesting one.

I'd like the platinum trophy, but at DRA/SRS, wins/poles/fastest laps are very infrequent as the sharp end is super competitive, and drivers just don't make big mistakes. I'm quite tempted to enter then quit a couple of races, drop to a low SR level, get matched against less skilled drivers and pick up some easy wins/poles/fastest laps... given i know I can get back to SRS with only a few clean races.
 
Stotty
I'd like the platinum trophy, but at DRA/SRS, wins/poles/fastest laps are very infrequent as the sharp end is super competitive, and drivers just don't make big mistakes. I'm quite tempted to enter then quit a couple of races, drop to a low SR level, get matched against less skilled drivers and pick up some easy wins/poles/fastest laps... given i know I can get back to SRS with only a few clean races.
Click to expand...

This is why in general I don't like trophies or achievements in games, in this case the box would be ticked but the process that would be used to do so makes it completely pointless achievement! Anyways back to the topic ;)
 
Stotty
Increases in DR should be proportional to your finishing position - top half against a matched grid, get an increase relative to your finishing position. Finish bottom half and get a relative decrease in DR.
Click to expand...
But what if the whole grid is drawn from the upper reaches of the DR band? You might come 15th but still perform better than an average, say, C rated driver.
 
Loopdreams
But what if the whole grid is drawn from the upper reaches of the DR band? You might come 15th but still perform better than an average, say, C rated driver.
Click to expand...

As I said... against a matched grid.

A DRB driver, finishing 16th, in a 20 car grid, of mixed DRB & C, should not be getting a DR improvement.
 
Roxanne
DR
To explain this, I need to introduce myself at first. I know for myself that I'm not a good and quick driver like others and Gran Turismo 6 was my first GT Title, so I came very early in this Business. But I make an effort for every race and even I need to play this Game with the standard DualShock 4 Controller (with using the "X" Button for accelerate and all Driving Aids activated), I was satisfied with my performance and I managed to achieve a DR rank with a middle "B" and a SR with "S" (for the last one I was very proud, until today's races but this will come later).

So, with my introduction, I already explained why the DR ranking system won't work but I will get now into some details:
- I playeed this Game now for every day since Day 1 and I also made every online race from all 4 Test Seasons
- Like everyone, I started of course with a "E" for my DR ranking
- After two days, I already jumped to a very low "C" rank
- Since I'm very bad at this Game, as I explained before, it took me about 20 days to jump from a "C" to a "B" but without winning any online race (my best race was a 3rd place but this was one of those "NASCAR-themed" races on "Blue Moon Speedway Circuit" with a lot of slipstreaming)
- On Day 21, I recognized for myself that my Driving Skills aren't even enough for winning a race against other people with a "C" rank but now I'm on "B" and I checked every day on my profile page that this little indicator is still rising for me.
- Today my indicator is somewhat on maybe 50% filled for rank "B" and I placed 19th on my second race today (which gave me 16 - yes it's SIXTEEN - points for the "Nations Cup" - wasn't even able to finish my race on the last lap).

So why then the DR will never work, you ask? Well, if I calculated this correctly, this will affect every player who isn't already at a "A" or even on a "S" rank. One will take 2 days to get a "A" rank, my humble self will maybe need 2 months to get a "A" rank but in future, everyone will be minimum rank "B" or even on rank "A". Putting them together in a online race and such "chaos pinball races" like I had for the last 3 days will be inevitable, especially on the first corner for every race.


MY DR is already on "A" and I win every race without such Problems you explained! Well, if you get already bored about this, feel free to close this Thread but not everyone is a good driver. Otherwise I would like to explain why "SR" will never work (this is even worse and worse).
Click to expand...
DR can go down as well as up - with some care (and without quitting out of races) I managed to deliberately reduce my DR on one account from C back to E.

That alone tells you that it's not sufficient to simply race to get your DR up, but there's a position/results calculation that affects your DR, both up and down, to different magnitudes.

By my calculations so far (not comprehensive), it's possible to reach a B driver status if you're in the bottom 25% of drivers, but not to reach A unless you're in the top 30%. A half-filled bar at B seems to be roughly 45th percentile.

The game appears to* take account of the strength of field, and creates an expected finishing position for you based on that. It appears that* if you beat that, you go up. So it's entirely possible to finish 19th yet gain DR, or 2nd and lose it.

*I need more evidence of this to be more definitive. I'm particularly interested if it bears any relation to the assigned car door number, or if that's affected by other factors, or random.
 
Famine
The game appears to* take account of the strength of field, and creates an expected finishing position for you based on that. It appears that* if you beat that, you go up. So it's entirely possible to finish 19th yet gain DR, or 2nd and lose it.
Click to expand...

In one of the few races I have done in sport mode, it seemed to seed me against the opposition, I remember being given the race number 8 even though I was going to be on pole.

That number seemed to be as result, of my DR and SR in comparison to that of the other drivers.
 
graveltrap
In one of the few races I have done in sport mode, it seemed to seed me against the opposition, I remember being given the race number 8 even though I was going to be on pole.

That number seemed to be as result, of my DR and SR in comparison to that of the other drivers.
Click to expand...

I always wondered how the initial line-up was calculated after matchmaking had been completed.
 
Roxanne
Good evening,

I know there are already a lot of similar Threads like this one (especially even more since the last update) and I know the Title for this Thread may beeing a little bit "clickbaity" but I think I can explain why both DR and SR rating Systems will be doomed to failure in future. Sure, Polyphony Digital can release more and more updates for this game to fix these problems but maybe we can use this Thread here as a "Brainstorming" place where we can discuss our opinions about this rating Systems, what works fine, what needs to be fixed etc. (I know there is even for this one a Thread available but I would like to discuss this in a "technical view" with you).


DR
To explain this, I need to introduce myself at first. I know for myself that I'm not a good and quick driver like others and Gran Turismo 6 was my first GT Title, so I came very early in this Business. But I make an effort for every race and even I need to play this Game with the standard DualShock 4 Controller (with using the "X" Button for accelerate and all Driving Aids activated), I was satisfied with my performance and I managed to achieve a DR rank with a middle "B" and a SR with "S" (for the last one I was very proud, until today's races but this will come later).

So, with my introduction, I already explained why the DR ranking system won't work but I will get now into some details:
- I playeed this Game now for every day since Day 1 and I also made every online race from all 4 Test Seasons
- Like everyone, I started of course with a "E" for my DR ranking
- After two days, I already jumped to a very low "C" rank
- Since I'm very bad at this Game, as I explained before, it took me about 20 days to jump from a "C" to a "B" but without winning any online race (my best race was a 3rd place but this was one of those "NASCAR-themed" races on "Blue Moon Speedway Circuit" with a lot of slipstreaming)
- On Day 21, I recognized for myself that my Driving Skills aren't even enough for winning a race against other people with a "C" rank but now I'm on "B" and I checked every day on my profile page that this little indicator is still rising for me.
- Today my indicator is somewhat on maybe 50% filled for rank "B" and I placed 19th on my second race today (which gave me 16 - yes it's SIXTEEN - points for the "Nations Cup" - wasn't even able to finish my race on the last lap).

So why then the DR will never work, you ask? Well, if I calculated this correctly, this will affect every player who isn't already at a "A" or even on a "S" rank. One will take 2 days to get a "A" rank, my humble self will maybe need 2 months to get a "A" rank but in future, everyone will be minimum rank "B" or even on rank "A". Putting them together in a online race and such "chaos pinball races" like I had for the last 3 days will be inevitable, especially on the first corner for every race.


MY DR is already on "A" and I win every race without such Problems you explained! Well, if you get already bored about this, feel free to close this Thread but not everyone is a good driver. Otherwise I would like to explain why "SR" will never work (this is even worse and worse).


SR
Other than my bad driving skills, I played every online race as fair as possible and with my "S" rank on "SR", I know it sounds selfish but I think I can say that I drive very fair for each race (yes I even overtake some cars to get from a 20th place to get on 7th place by the end of the race, so you can believe me, I drive very fair). The problem here is that this system is such unbalanced that everyone can get a "S" rank very fast (even faster as getting a good "A" rank for DR). But I can also get in Detail here:
- On my 2nd day playing this Game, I was already on a "A" rank for my SR and on the next day, I got my "S" rank #yeah
- I hold my "S" rank until today and my "S" rank was displayed in blue for every race until today.
- Since there is no indicator in the profile page like for "DR" I compared my "S" rank with my online friends every day and until last Friday, I was still on "S" rank, another one was on "A" rank and the other 26 Drivers were on "D" rank or even lower (ok maybe those with a "E" rank didn't play online).
- But since Sunday, the first race for the 4th test season, 22 of those 27 friend were now also on "S" rank and the rest of them aren't far away to get this achieved too.
- And I think this explaines that why I have since the beginning of the 4th test Season, every race is one of those "chaos pinball races" where everyone runs into another cars and even when they gets relegated to a "A" rank - two or three races later and they are back on "S" rank.
- And today was the Highlight - I started from the 6th place (my qualifing was even very bad and I had even this feeling that today is my chance to get on 1st place :P) and of course, someone runs into my car on the first corner @ Interlagos and I'm on 20th place. Fun thing is that this was even my best race. I managed to get from 20th place to the 7th place at the end of the race but with a lot of "chaos" and playing "Pinball" with another Players (this was the worst "S" ranked race I saw in this game, by far).
- The result was (I made even a photo with my iPhone if wished) = The player on 1st place got his blue "S" while every other 19 Players get a red "S" or even a red "A" at the end of the race. This is probably a new record.
- And it seems that this will be now for every race since there is a lot of "S" racers, which doesn't play fair.


So what's your problem Roxanne? If you can't drive, then **** up and go playing Mario Kart !!! Well, my problem is that there will be no "clean" races anymore when everyone can get a "S" rank for SR very easy and the fact that now I had for 30/40 days a blue "S" after every race and I get relegated to a red "A" only after two pinball-like races like today? Then I wonder why I give any effort for myself to drive as clean as possible. Yes, for nothing. :(



So what do you think, similar experiences or the total opposite? If there is some interest, I would like to discuss this with you, but please be also fair here in this Thread and not only in the Game. But if this thread is too much for you, then you can close this window or you can say that I should play another Game or you can even say to the Moderators to delete this thread, it will be ok. This was just my opinion and I ask for similar experiences and what could be better to avoid such Problems in future. Maybe you have some tips for me and maybe I'm doing something wrong but everyone is welcome in this "clean discussion."


Thanks and Best Regards

Roxanne
Click to expand...
I’m ashamed to admit, I’ve made some pretty bad mistakes during races and have been a victim of many reared or side on smashes. I’ve seen my DR lower too. From B to C, then back up with good races. So my point is, if people lose DR rating due to mishaps won’t that mitigate to some extent the problem with DR you describe?
 
graveltrap
In one of the few races I have done in sport mode, it seemed to seed me against the opposition, I remember being given the race number 8 even though I was going to be on pole.

That number seemed to be as result, of my DR and SR in comparison to that of the other drivers.
Click to expand...

This is an interesting point as I've often wondered why the numbers on my car were not my quali position? May be on to something here.
I'll need to check next time if the seemingly random order when you first enter a race after matching is the number on your car. And if perhaps that order isn't quite as random as it would appear.
 
Interesting discussion with someone on another forum. He has a different view on DR progression to the OP...

I don't agree with that poster.

If he's right, and I'm consistently top 25 in the Nation's cup and have done 300 races with over 50 wins, why aren't I DR S? As above, there are very few DR S players.

FWIW. I'm currently back down at DR B after two recent poor results in the champs races and working my way back up from SR B.
Click to expand...
 
My general view from first coming across safety ratings on iracing is that people focus too much on the safety rating and start over analyzing everything about it i.e where a computer fails to hold the correct person at fault etc

At the end of the day what the safety rating does reasonably well is create an incentive and a reminder to people to atleast attempt to drive clean.

For a console game with a significant number of people using controllers etc, i think on the whole, i have been very encouraged so far by the standard of driving to feel like that the safety rating factor is actually having a positive factor. Sure sometimes you'll get penalized for something out of your control but it will all evens itself out.

Personally, i can't say i've enjoyed any motorsport sim as much as this since iracing
 
Woodybobs
I feel you, man, but all those people with time to put in are simply getting better faster than you are. They're DR goes up as they gather more skills. It's very much an indicator of skill. It's just not an indicator of where you could be if you had more time to play.
Click to expand...

I know it is obviously based on skill that's why I said OP can't be as bad as she says she is. But there is also a large time element. Not just like COD where you will just keep going up the ranks regardless of skill as long as you play it enough. But in that the more time you can put in the faster you will rise the ranks, if you also have the skill.

No matter how skilled you are you ain't gonna rank up when you're not playing. My quali times are right up there and beyond a lot of people on my friends list who are B's. If I played more I would finish more races thus I would rank up to where my skill level plateaus quicker. That was my point about time.
 
Certainly since the SR system is trying to make judgments on fault, and failing, people have learned to game it to their advantage. In my experience, that's on the increase. But still, most drivers aren't doing it, just those that do are making a solid habit of it. I'm finding more races to be clean(-ish) than not, at B-S.

It's still so easy to stay at SR S that I don't even think about it any more (that's not a good thing).

Also, for sure, if you mostly find yourself in dirty races, or even in the dirty section of the pack, the resulting DR will mean very little at all.

But for the most part, DR seems to be working reasonably. I'm B, almost an A, and that matches up to experience - I'll typically beat a good few other Bs, the occasional A, and walk all over Ds and most Cs.
 
Roxanne
Good evening,

I know there are already a lot of similar Threads like this one (especially even more since the last update) and I know the Title for this Thread may beeing a little bit "clickbaity" but I think I can explain why both DR and SR rating Systems will be doomed to failure in future. Sure, Polyphony Digital can release more and more updates for this game to fix these problems but maybe we can use this Thread here as a "Brainstorming" place where we can discuss our opinions about this rating Systems, what works fine, what needs to be fixed etc. (I know there is even for this one a Thread available but I would like to discuss this in a "technical view" with you).


DR
To explain this, I need to introduce myself at first. I know for myself that I'm not a good and quick driver like others and Gran Turismo 6 was my first GT Title, so I came very early in this Business. But I make an effort for every race and even I need to play this Game with the standard DualShock 4 Controller (with using the "X" Button for accelerate and all Driving Aids activated), I was satisfied with my performance and I managed to achieve a DR rank with a middle "B" and a SR with "S" (for the last one I was very proud, until today's races but this will come later).

So, with my introduction, I already explained why the DR ranking system won't work but I will get now into some details:
- I playeed this Game now for every day since Day 1 and I also made every online race from all 4 Test Seasons
- Like everyone, I started of course with a "E" for my DR ranking
- After two days, I already jumped to a very low "C" rank
- Since I'm very bad at this Game, as I explained before, it took me about 20 days to jump from a "C" to a "B" but without winning any online race (my best race was a 3rd place but this was one of those "NASCAR-themed" races on "Blue Moon Speedway Circuit" with a lot of slipstreaming)
- On Day 21, I recognized for myself that my Driving Skills aren't even enough for winning a race against other people with a "C" rank but now I'm on "B" and I checked every day on my profile page that this little indicator is still rising for me.
- Today my indicator is somewhat on maybe 50% filled for rank "B" and I placed 19th on my second race today (which gave me 16 - yes it's SIXTEEN - points for the "Nations Cup" - wasn't even able to finish my race on the last lap).

So why then the DR will never work, you ask? Well, if I calculated this correctly, this will affect every player who isn't already at a "A" or even on a "S" rank. One will take 2 days to get a "A" rank, my humble self will maybe need 2 months to get a "A" rank but in future, everyone will be minimum rank "B" or even on rank "A". Putting them together in a online race and such "chaos pinball races" like I had for the last 3 days will be inevitable, especially on the first corner for every race.


MY DR is already on "A" and I win every race without such Problems you explained! Well, if you get already bored about this, feel free to close this Thread but not everyone is a good driver. Otherwise I would like to explain why "SR" will never work (this is even worse and worse).


SR
Other than my bad driving skills, I played every online race as fair as possible and with my "S" rank on "SR", I know it sounds selfish but I think I can say that I drive very fair for each race (yes I even overtake some cars to get from a 20th place to get on 7th place by the end of the race, so you can believe me, I drive very fair). The problem here is that this system is such unbalanced that everyone can get a "S" rank very fast (even faster as getting a good "A" rank for DR). But I can also get in Detail here:
- On my 2nd day playing this Game, I was already on a "A" rank for my SR and on the next day, I got my "S" rank #yeah
- I hold my "S" rank until today and my "S" rank was displayed in blue for every race until today.
- Since there is no indicator in the profile page like for "DR" I compared my "S" rank with my online friends every day and until last Friday, I was still on "S" rank, another one was on "A" rank and the other 26 Drivers were on "D" rank or even lower (ok maybe those with a "E" rank didn't play online).
- But since Sunday, the first race for the 4th test season, 22 of those 27 friend were now also on "S" rank and the rest of them aren't far away to get this achieved too.
- And I think this explaines that why I have since the beginning of the 4th test Season, every race is one of those "chaos pinball races" where everyone runs into another cars and even when they gets relegated to a "A" rank - two or three races later and they are back on "S" rank.
- And today was the Highlight - I started from the 6th place (my qualifing was even very bad and I had even this feeling that today is my chance to get on 1st place :P) and of course, someone runs into my car on the first corner @ Interlagos and I'm on 20th place. Fun thing is that this was even my best race. I managed to get from 20th place to the 7th place at the end of the race but with a lot of "chaos" and playing "Pinball" with another Players (this was the worst "S" ranked race I saw in this game, by far).
- The result was (I made even a photo with my iPhone if wished) = The player on 1st place got his blue "S" while every other 19 Players get a red "S" or even a red "A" at the end of the race. This is probably a new record.
- And it seems that this will be now for every race since there is a lot of "S" racers, which doesn't play fair.


So what's your problem Roxanne? If you can't drive, then **** up and go playing Mario Kart !!! Well, my problem is that there will be no "clean" races anymore when everyone can get a "S" rank for SR very easy and the fact that now I had for 30/40 days a blue "S" after every race and I get relegated to a red "A" only after two pinball-like races like today? Then I wonder why I give any effort for myself to drive as clean as possible. Yes, for nothing. :(



So what do you think, similar experiences or the total opposite? If there is some interest, I would like to discuss this with you, but please be also fair here in this Thread and not only in the Game. But if this thread is too much for you, then you can close this window or you can say that I should play another Game or you can even say to the Moderators to delete this thread, it will be ok. This was just my opinion and I ask for similar experiences and what could be better to avoid such Problems in future. Maybe you have some tips for me and maybe I'm doing something wrong but everyone is welcome in this "clean discussion."


Thanks and Best Regards

Roxanne
Click to expand...

I believe it will self correct on the long term. The game is only a little over 1 month old. The ratings algorithm does’t have enough data to take in account driver experience. But don’t quote me on this.

In the mean time just try driving clean and fast and hopefully eventually you will be put against people with the same ratings.
 
stevenhiggster
I know it is obviously based on skill that's why I said OP can't be as bad as she says she is. But there is also a large time element. Not just like COD where you will just keep going up the ranks regardless of skill as long as you play it enough. But in that the more time you can put in the faster you will rise the ranks, if you also have the skill.

No matter how skilled you are you ain't gonna rank up when you're not playing. My quali times are right up there and beyond a lot of people on my friends list who are B's. If I played more I would finish more races thus I would rank up to where my skill level plateaus quicker. That was my point about time.
Click to expand...
There's some validity to what you're saying, but I think you're overestimating it so you can use it as an excuse. Admittedly, the more time one puts into something, the quicker one will reach one's potential.

I'm also DR C, but it took me a lot longer to get here, as I was a sim virgin. I brought zero skills on day one, but I practiced, learned some, got better and it's reflected in my DR. The game eventually told me I now have the skills to compete at DR C. Had I practiced less I would still be DR D because I wouldn't have acquired the skillset to move up.

I don't know much time you can afford to put in, but if you're really capable of B lap times and you're not blitzing a C field every time you race, then something is wrong. I'm competitive in C but for most tracks I'm still a ways off from B lap times. I rarely see a C driver with significantly better lap times, and when I do come across one they're way out in front by the end. It should only take a few races to get to B if you are that good. I'm not doubting you (except this is the internet), but I'm interested why you can't move up. Possibly you're only doing a race a week, which would explain it.
 

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