Why can't a thread about religion be civil

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ledhed

ledhed

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I can't beleive a thread about religion turned into a bar fight..what is it about the subject ..or the people that respond to it that makes it impossible to discuss impassionately ?
For that matter why ruin an interesting topic by being juvenile no matter what it is.
 
how can you not imagine religion turning into a bar fight
More people in this world fight over religion then anything else. It is all about who is right, with a bunch of Alpha-males running it. Personnally I believe in logic and reasonning and some say I will burn in hell for it, others will say I can be saved, some will agree and some will disagree. just deal with it, that is how I feel.
 
This is a perfect example of how wars start. One guy says my religion is best,. the other say me, me,me,... this is a perfect example of how religion does not work.
 
well this world has been shedding blood over it since the dawn of mankind. get over it, learn to live together.
 
Everyone refuses to have an open mind about it. Its about saying what they think is right, and not listening to what someone else has to say. New thories are also shot down. With Religion, its not aloud to be new. Before the separation of church and state, people were punished for thinking. Try to write a book in those days... in a lot of ways, it hasn't changed.

I refuse to join "the fight." I will take a step back, watch and listen, form my own opinion and leave.
 
Actually Maz's other thread about religion didn't get closed due to any discussion of religion. It was other stuff.

For a civil discussion of religion see the thread entitled "Where was god on 911?" And another one that was really about homosexuality, but ended up being about morality, and hence, religion. They never got closed.

Sorry but I don't have the time to do the search for you. And if anyone can remember the name of the thread about the morality of homosexuality, help me out here.
 
Well mytbe we can start here and have an intelligent and logical discussion. I was begining to learn some new things in the last one before the personality clash took place and it got locked. Try to remember that we can all disagree without being disagreable .
I'd appreciate if we can all be respectfull towards each other in this thread and maybe we can all benifit by a frank exchange of oppinions and ideas.
religion makes up a big part of alot of lives and for the most part in my opinion keeps alot of people on firm moral ground. Just because I dissagree or do not beleive most of the religion that was taught to me does not mean that I have closed my mind to it. Iam still looking or waiting for answers and I beleive that God exist..I just don't know what to call him yet. Maybe we are all right and just calling the same god by different names. The history of organized religion is for the most part an intermingling of cultures with many tenets of each religion overlapping that of others. The exceptions being as far as I know asian religions..Hindu , Buddism et al..but I may be wrong about that. In fact I may be wrong about everything..I'll never be able to find out if I can't find some open minds.
 
I started it, and I don't even recall the title. But the first word was definitely "Homosexuality". It's on the Opinions board.

There are several other threads, also on that board, discussion the issue of "Church and State" as well as the American Pledge of Allegiance, that managed to stay fairly civil. Impassioned, yes, but civil.
 
Seems like religion is a lot like politics. Everyone thinks they are right and every other opinion is wrong.
I would love to have a good discussion about religion.

Did I miss something? I haven't checked the board all day and I find out that a thread was closed? What happened? Was I part of the reason it was closed? (hope not)
 
ok, how about a theory on life, I guess this could fall under religion to some sense. You got a sphere in your hand. The mathematical definition of a sphere is infinite points. A sphere also contains a north pole and south pole. A asic fundenmental life in run by, eletrical. There are also two points inlife when we are all the same, and it is only at those two points. Birth and Death. Now, put this together, the sphere is your lifeline, the south pole is when you are born and the north pole is when you die. No one will ever walk the same line of points through it but we all end up the same. You have infinite possiblity, inifinite chances within your life. Infinite choices to choose your life and the way you lead it. Basically the circle of life - don't even go lion king on my arse - :lol: Life is a rotating cycle that gives you the chance to do anything you put your mind to and anything you put forth the effort you accomplish.
 
life is what you make of it, if you want it flat, so be it. Don't take the representation of the sphere too seriously or you'll be sitting there playing with your balls the rest of your life. :lol:
 
So,.. I take the sphere and put it against my balls? :lol: North Pole or South?:lol:



No,.. really :lol:,... I'd like to have a rational conversation with a Christian who knows WTF their talking about,... the fact that everytime I try, and the end result is always the same ultimadium, is extremely frustrating.

I need a real answer about why Jack the Ripper gets the same end result as Mother Terisa. (sp?)
 
Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
a rational conversation with a Christian (sp?)
Click to expand...
Well that is not me, but I'm rational enough to not bite your head off. :)
 
Do you think Jack the Ripper Asked for Jesus to be his personal Lord and Savior before he died?

I get your drift though RER. It all comes down to opening your heart and letting Christ in. It's not about mouthing a few words and some magic happens.
It's a real sencere(sp) transformation.
 
My girlfriend is always telling me about accepting Jesus. Now she is non-denominational Christian and I'm jewish. I don't think I can accept him like that. My reasoning is this. It is not because I'm jewish and I believe hardcore what the jews believe, nor do I believe exactly what christians believe, but I pick apart from different religons of what I totally believe. The thing is There has been so many modifications and generations that the old, new, original testiment was handed down, someone has admented it and wrote in what they believed. I can't base anything on someone else full exact thoughts or words. That is why I pick and choose. Maybe I am wrong and Jesus is the way of the righteous. I then will probably burn in hell for that. But, I can't accept it without seeing it through my eyes. Until God comes to me in some form or another, all I can do is question and not answer.
 
Maybe defining the purpose of religion would help a lot. Then there is also the difference between spirituality and religion.

Ever heard someone say something like "he religiously walked his dog every morning at 6:00 a.m.?" I think that sums up religion. It is a regimen, it is a schedule and calendar of ritual, a certain way of doing things at the proper time. Christianity would be the religion most of us are familiar with because Western civilization has been formed by it.

It is entirely possible, indeed, common, for religious people to be utterly devoid of spirituality. This makes their religiousness a farce, and that is what bothers me about religion; there are people who think that because they go to church every week, had their sacrements, can quote the bible, appear to be moral (and act morally superior) to others, reject any non-Christian ceremony or circumstance with pompous zeal, and have a crucifix everywhere they look, that they are good people and have some kind of spiritual depth. Some do. Many don't; they are too preoccupied with "doing it right" to even cast a casual glance toward the mystery of life that religion attempts to define, to make ours.

I have been inclined toward religious types when I find ones that understand the meaning of their religious adherence. I have even felt a twinge of envy, but never a deficiency.

Spirituality is closer to what religion is intended to reveal and make accessible, and is more important than the vocabulary, ritual, and prescribed techniques for attaining it. They are all aesthetic preferences as far as I can see. I know religious Christians who are jugemental of others who are practically morally identical to them, for no other reason than they do not go to church or read the bible to their kids. I kow religious Christians who boycotted Harry Potter because it was Pagan Witchcraft, as if this makes them closer to God. I often see myself, as a non-Christian, closer to their god than they could ever hope to be only because I can't be bothered with negatively defining life with restrictions and slinging holier-than-thou jugements around.

Once a person is indoctrinated into a strict religious regimen they are required by necessity to negatively judge any other religion or way of life; their propped up illusion of truth will fall apart if they maintain an open mind for an instant (if you look closely you can see the door open up, and slam shut as they cling to their little "beliefs"). It's unfair to expect anything else from them. There is no solution within the bounds of the religion. Dissolution of the religious restrictions on the individual are the only way. Then they will be free and want others to be free.

There is a newer type of Christianity. It claims no ties to the old, institutional Christianity, and seems to be more concentrated on Jesus and his message, within which there is maybe too much room for interpretation to even try to name it. I am suspicious of this Christianity, and ultimately reject it on one simple premise: The notion that the purpose of life on earth is to serve god and by doing so, you will be granted access to eternal life with him. By not doing so you will be damned to suffer in the absence of god for eternity. The emphasis can still to easily be placed on avoiding punishment, adhrerence to moral codes, and just making sure you do it right. It could very well be that Christianity has simply run the gamut, done everything it can in the world, consumated itself, and is in the process of dying out like the Greek Pantheon, like Zoroastrianism, like the Celts. There is nothing about Christianity that makes it immune form the hisrotical forces that have swallowed up countless religions of the millenia. I believe we are living in the vapor trail of the most influential, beautiful, and destructive human endeavor the world has yet seen: Christianity. Islam is the same, and that is why it is lashing out... it is desperate and suffocating.

The truly valuable things about Christianity will survive forever if they serve humanity well. In the end it is all about the survival of the species. We will pick and choose what we need and we will toss the rest aside. You can see the relics of dead worlds in our own culture today. In a thousand years Christianity will be the same... unconcious, coloquial, and useful.

This is why I can't be religious in the common sense of the word. But I have found my own path to spirituality. And I have no desire to evangelize. It's only for me. No war will ever be fought in its name.
 
Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
So,.. I take the sphere and put it against my balls? :lol: North Pole or South?:lol:



No,.. really :lol:,... I'd like to have a rational conversation with a Christian who knows WTF their talking about,... the fact that everytime I try, and the end result is always the same ultimadium, is extremely frustrating.

I need a real answer about why Jack the Ripper gets the same end result as Mother Terisa. (sp?)
Click to expand...

Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
How about this for fairness:

You can be a rapist, murdering, blood-thirsty cannibal, and still goto heaven as long as you accept Jesus as your lord and saviour.

But, no matter what you do in your life,.. if you dont accept him, you will burn in hell for eternity.

Just some food for thought.
Click to expand...

You can check the other thread, although closed, it is still accesable. First off, I don't know if Jack the Ripper gets same end result as Mother Terisa (sp?). There are some passages in the bible that say teachers will be judged harder. That's a loose translation, but the main jist is that there is not one judgement accross the board for everyone, but rather a per case basis. I find this interesting.

Also, you mentioned "burn in hell for eternity". This is interesting, and something that I have been doing some independent research on myself. I ran accross a passage, again a loose translation, "do not be afraid of the one who can destroy the body, but rather you should fear the God that can destroy the spirit". This is an interesting verse because it does not imply eternal damnation, but rather a finite end to the soul. Also, references to Hell can be called back to a furnace place out side of one of the biblical towns where they used to burn dead bodies when a proper barial could not be performed. So, is hell an eternal place for damnation, or was it just a metiphore used to describe the finite end to the spirit where eternal life does not exist?

I'll try to pull some more specifics as I come accross them.
 
Originally posted by Pako


Also, you mentioned "burn in hell for eternity". This is interesting, and something that I have been doing some independent research on myself. I ran accross a passage, again a loose translation, "do not be afraid of the one who can destroy the body, but rather you should fear the God that can destroy the spirit". This is an interesting verse because it does not imply eternal damnation, but rather a finite end to the soul. Also, references to Hell can be called back to a furnace place out side of one of the biblical towns where they used to burn dead bodies when a proper barial could not be performed. So, is hell an eternal place for damnation, or was it just a metiphore used to describe the finite end to the spirit where eternal life does not exist?
Click to expand...

I've always interpreted it as the total absence of God. I guess that could also be seen as the death of your soul, too, though. Perdition.
 
I thought that hell was pretty much open to interpretation, and that the vision of hell thats represented consistently was extrapolated from Dantes inferno and writings of that like. Is there a visual representation in the bible of hell ? Or is it more of a metaphore used to represent the opposite of what heavens supposed to be ?
 
Originally posted by milefile
Maybe defining the purpose of religion would help a lot. Then there is also the difference between spirituality and religion.

Ever heard someone say something like "he religiously walked his dog every morning at 6:00 a.m.?" I think that sums up religion. It is a regimen, it is a schedule and calendar of ritual, a certain way of doing things at the proper time. Christianity would be the religion most of us are familiar with because Western civilization has been formed by it.

It is entirely possible, indeed, common, for religious people to be utterly devoid of spirituality. This makes their religiousness a farce, and that is what bothers me about religion; there are people who think that because they go to church every week, had their sacrements, can quote the bible, appear to be moral (and act morally superior) to others, reject any non-Christian ceremony or circumstance with pompous zeal, and have a crucifix everywhere they look, that they are good people and have some kind of spiritual depth. Some do. Many don't; they are too preoccupied with "doing it right" to even cast a casual glance toward the mystery of life that religion attempts to define, to make ours.

I have been inclined toward religious types when I find ones that understand the meaning of their religious adherence. I have even felt a twinge of envy, but never a deficiency.

Spirituality is closer to what religion is intended to reveal and make accessible, and is more important than the vocabulary, ritual, and prescribed techniques for attaining it. They are all aesthetic preferences as far as I can see. I know religious Christians who are jugemental of others who are practically morally identical to them, for no other reason than they do not go to church or read the bible to their kids. I kow religious Christians who boycotted Harry Potter because it was Pagan Witchcraft, as if this makes them closer to God. I often see myself, as a non-Christian, closer to their god than they could ever hope to be only because I can't be bothered with negatively defining life with restrictions and slinging holier-than-thou jugements around.*snip*
Click to expand...

I felt bad with that *snip* as you had some really good 'personal' points of view.

The above statements were right on the ball, and falls directly into some sporadic posts I've made in various threads. "Man is not judged by work's alone". Something that seems relevant is that works can not give you salvation. Doing 'good' deeds does not secure your place in the book of life. Works will, however, follow after you have been saved because of a transformation that occurs of the mind and spirit. Now does this mean that people can't do good works of their own design? Certainly not! Your personal choice of actions can determine that along with your own set of morals. Perhaps the motivation might change though, also the direction of such actions can be directed from an omnipotent source other than our own.
 
Originally posted by Magic069
Everyone refuses to have an open mind about it.
Click to expand...

Right, I'm close-minded, I know I won't be pursuaded from my path, but however, I have tolerance for people that talk about theirs, I just smile, nodd, and think in my head, "Ignorant fool...."
 
That's cool if you want to think those thoughts in your head, but what's the point if your going to post those thoughts in a public thread?
 
Originally posted by Pako
That's cool if you want to think those thoughts in your head, but what's the point if your going to post those thoughts in a public thread?
Click to expand...

I posted them here so people could use the idea later on in public to just think inside their heads instead of blabering about anything and everything.
 
It sounds like another way of just saying anyone who beleives that stuff is an idiot..if thats how you feel just say so.
 
what you are looking for is not an intelligent on "religion". You are looking for intelligent discourse on the subject of FAITH.

I have the views that I have based on my interpretation of the Bible. I have faith that it is the "authourity" on how I should live my life.

People of faith, Christian's, if you will, and Godly men (Old testmament) were far from perfect. With the exception of Jesus, All of the "Great" men of the Bible sinned. Some greviously.

Moses murdered a man prior to becoming God's "messenger" to Pharoah.

Samson allowed himself to be seduced and basically traded his faith for the "love" of a bad woman.

Saul tried to have David killed, because he was jealous of David's popularity with the people after he killed Goliath.

David saw a woman he desired, impregnated her, and then he ensured that the woman's husband would be killed in the thick of battle.

Jacob (a direct ancestor of Jesus), with the help of his mother, tricked his brother and father out the birthright of the firstborn.

Peter, an apostle of Jesus, cut off a man's ear when they came to take Jesus for "trial" and subsequently, crucifixtion (sp). He later, in that same day lied about being an apostle. I could go on...

The things that they had in common, was that they had, or developed a "heart for God". They turned away from their "sin" and followed the word of God.
They all had consequences to live with. But they became "saved", "born again", whatever euphimism you choose, by their acceptance of the will of God. God will only come into your heart if he is invited. So, if Jack the Ripper truly repented and turned away from his sin, he would be saved. Saul, who later became Paul is proof of that. (See the Book of Acts).
 
I still find it hard to accept that taking faith into your heart or Christ into your heart or whatever into your heart releives you of accountability for what you have done before..you mean to tell me hitler on his death bed could have reconciled with God and have been forgiven ? Or is there still accountability along with forgiveness..if thats even possible.
 
it cant be civil becasue peoples oppinions are too diverse to be equally ... uh.. someting
 

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