Why can't a thread about religion be civil

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As I said, All the men I mentioned had consequences to deal with.
Samson was blinded and imprisoned.
Moses directly disobeyed God and was not allowed to enter the Promised land of Canaan.
Saul lost his throne.
David ultimately lost his throne.

Hitler, if predisposed to take Jesus into his heart would have obtained God's forgiveness. He still would have had to pay for his crimes under man's law.

You also have to take into account that God can "harden the heart" of an individual, so that they will not listen to "Godly counsel" as in the case of Pharoah.

Accepting the Lord into your heart does not absolve you of crime. You only get God's forgiveness.

Funny you bring up Hitler, Read the book of Acts starting around the eighth chapter. Saul ofTarsus was doing a similar thing, persecuting Christians. Killing a lot of them and throwing some into prison...
 
Originally posted by rjensen11
I posted them here so people could use the idea later on in public to just think inside their heads instead of blabering about anything and everything.
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I see... I was just curious about the logic behind it. Do you think that people should just stay inside their heads or express themselves in the open just on certain topics?

Gil,

What do you know about Hell? You seem to be able to regurgitate biblical info pretty readily.....in your estimation, where God is love, would he subject his children to eternal suffering, or would he be merciful and just end their existence?

Does hell exist as an eternal place of suffering, and furthermore, eternal fire as described by pagan believes?

I'm curious what your take on the subject is.
 
ving,

That is one of the most insightful and thought provoking posts I have seen in such a long time. I could only hope to reach your level of simplicity so that I might find peace with my self and my fellow human beings around me. Thank you so much for your attention and effort in this matter.

Oh, I'm sorry...was that a question? "because.....why?" What exactly are you trying to say here? Care to further explain your limited post?
 
Milefile. I think you are right on on a lot of points about religion. Religion to me is the daily practice of your Faith.
Things you do as a Christian (or others) that are pleasing to or commanded by God. It is very possible to be religious and not be saved. What a waste of time though. Salvation is the easier part where religion takes up a lot more time and is a lot more work.
 
Pako,
My take on Hell, and would God send us to a place of eternal damnation?...

Well, I believe that God is not responsible for us being condemned to hell. We are responsible for our salvation or damnation. (See the book of Job). God created us with free will.
But as far as doling out punishment/consequences for our actions:
Moses was not allowed to enter the "Promised Land" of Canaan because he disobeyed God by striking the rock (that gave water) instead of speaking to it as he was directed to do.

As for the existence of Hell and "eternal torment" I direct you to Luke 16:19-31.

And to further the Example of Saul of Tarsus. He became Paul, one of the most vervent evangalists/teachers of the Word of God ever known. This after being a persecuter of people of Faith, that believed in Jesus Christ.

Proof positive that a life can be "turned around".

And as far as regurgitation of Bible-- You guys are making me study. And helping me keep a promise I made to myself after my father died. I remember a lot of stuff as a "PK" But I still have to look a lot of stuff up and read and re-read before I post what I have interpreted from the scriptures.
 
Are there any religious, non-christians here that have a point to make about their relgion? Or it this going to be a Jesus thread?

1-Why wasnt Judeism (sp?) good enough?

2-Why did Moses have to seek Jesus?

3-Who is the official leader of the Jewish faith?

4-When was Islam created?

5-Why was Asia not as seceptable to the Bibles movement as other continents?
 
Curious as to you guys take on judgement as far as the books are concerned. I see it as there are 2 books. One is the book of life and the other is basically the book of works. The book of life you are put in the moment you are saved and the other is filled with your life history since you became a Christian. Revelations speaks of them and it seems like there is another place where it talks about this subject but I am at work right now and can't look it up.

Anyway, what do you guys think?
 
Well I actually meant the books that Revelations talks about but I can see how you thought I meant the old and new testament. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
 
Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
From what I understand DGB,... the old testement is studied by the jews, and the new is studied by the Christians. Would that be correct?
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Actually, The New testatment is the new law and the Old Testament is the old law and history for us to study.
"Those who don't remember history..."

RER it would be something for Moses to seek Jesus. As Jesus was born, as a man long after Moses died.

As for the rest of the questions: I'll only tackle the Asia one. Asia is not easily reached, especially on foot from Jerusalem. In the beginnings of Christianity that was the main mode of travel.
At ten to 15 miles a day on foot, and being limited in what you could carry with you Asia was just too difficult a journey.
 
Originally posted by ledhed
I can't beleive a thread about religion turned into a bar fight..what is it about the subject ..or the people that respond to it that makes it impossible to discuss impassionately ?
For that matter why ruin an interesting topic by being juvenile no matter what it is.
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Too many opinions, an intelligence plays a part in that as well. Or lack of it
 
Still looking for opinions concerning:

-Why wasnt Judeism (sp?) good enough? (who decided that Jesus was the son of God)

-Who is the official leader of the Jewish faith?

-When was Islam created?
 
Originally posted by ledhed
I still find it hard to accept that taking faith into your heart or Christ into your heart or whatever into your heart releives you of accountability for what you have done before..you mean to tell me hitler on his death bed could have reconciled with God and have been forgiven ? Or is there still accountability along with forgiveness..if thats even possible.
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The Catholics had a problem with this, too, so they invented Purgatory... a temporary Hell, as it were.
 
Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
Still looking for opinions concerning:
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-Why wasnt Judeism (sp?) good enough? (who decided that Jesus was the son of God)

It was doing okay for about 200 years or so; its Golden Age is believed to be around 200BCE-80BCE, when Jewish thought flourished and "the times" (in Israel) were wather stable. And then, the Romans took over. Everything became chaotic, rulers were deposed, and the Jews didn't want to accept the polytheistic faith of the Roman Empire.

That sparked the powderkeg...so the Jews were looking for help...the notion of the messiah...who was it going to be? By theory, the Book of Iasiah (sp?) told of the attributes of the Savior; but of course, many just read it and said they were the Messiah.

Why don't I accept the notion of a Messiah? Because even Jesus didn't fulfill all the prophesies...in fact, it's supposed he knew full well what the Old Testament passage said, and just followed it (entering the Western Gate, for example).

-Who is the official leader of the Jewish faith?

God.

-When was Islam created?

Around 600 C.E. (?), it's one of the newer major faiths in the planet. Muhammad is the founder of the religion, he was basically confused about life at the time, because the Arabian Peninsula at the time was of varying faiths (if any) and the people were largely nomadic and lawless.

In about 100-150 years, it was highly popular and the Golden Age of Middle Eastern thought began. During the Dark ages of Europe, many scholars and many texts that had become largely forgotten (or brainwashed out of the European populace) were re-learned. When the Arabs came to Spain in 711CE, there was lots of war, but peace came through for a while, and revitalized thought which eventually had a great deal to do with the Rennasaince.

* Feel free to correct me or comment.
 
Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
Still looking for opinions concerning:

-Why wasnt Judeism (sp?) good enough? (who decided that Jesus was the son of God)
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Judeism is good enough. Just ask all the Jews. Religions have splintered countless times throughout history. It boils down to more than religion. Jesus, to be comprehended well, must also be seen as a political figure. Judeism was more than just the religion of the time and place, it was the political structure. Jesus rebelled, and payed the price. It is only very recently that anybody interpreted his life as a purely spiritual/religious event. Christianity was a subversive cult for a long time after Jesus' death. After that is was a fringe movement, repressed and punichable by the Romans. They liked to feed Christians to the Lions, etc. It wasn't until Constatine that Christianity became acceptable. It is worth noting that the very religious movement that Jesus was executed over became, hundreds of years later, the dominant religious and political model of Western Civilization.

-Who is the official leader of the Jewish faith?
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I don't know if there is one. All the big shots from the old testament are key, however. It's essentially the same for Christianity. Jesus is not the "leader." He is God. The fact that Christianity is based on the death of a man complicates it immensely. In Christianity God is a trinity. It took hundreds of years of ecumenical councils and theology to iron that one out. Think of the sign of the cross: Father... Son... and Holy Spirit = the word of God. They are one and the same.

In John's gospel: "In the beginning there was the word and the word was with god and and god was the word."

Theologians have been himming and hawing over this for nearly 2000 years. It won't be solved here.



-When was Islam created?
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Muhammad is the founder of Islam and he was born in 570 AD. It is a young religion compared to the other major ones. That is why I think Islam's current historical place is analogous to Christianity in the middle ages: Hell bent on world domination.

And I think a big reason Christianity never took root in Asia is because Asians have a much older religious tradition than Europe. They were "civilized" much sooner, and saw anything European as stupid, unenlightened, and barbaric. Also, their religions aren't monotheistic (but look at Mesoamerica... thoroughly Christianized). Taoism and Confucianism are essentially philosophies in the European sense; there is nothing like the worship Christianity mandated (roughly... Asian philosophy = a certain way to learn / Christianity = learn only certain things). Buddhism seems to worship the Buddha but it doesn't. He was the fisrt man to attain enlightenment, as other men can also do, which takes him out of the realm of gods. Hinduism is paganism, not unlike Eropean Paganism before Christianity exterminated it.
 
Good info guy's,... thanx 👍

I need to get a possible stereotypical question out of the way now:

If I'm caucasion, can I be appart of Islam?
 
Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
If I'm caucasion, can I be appart of Islam?
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Yes.

Technically, I've never heard of a major religion whereby race or skin color had any issue. I suppose Shintoism might be the exception, since it's pretty much exclusive to Japan and the Japanese people.
 
I want to clarify my position on Islam being hell bent on world domination. Just as there were Christians who were appalled by the Crusades and the genocide in Mesoamerica, there are Muslims who are appalled by what is happening in much of the Islamic world today. I was speaking of certain parts of it as political force.
 
Watch the movie Malcolm X, you'll see he spoke of taking the pilgrimage right along side men whiter than any White Man he saw in America.

Islam is also the fastest growing faith in the world today. Christianity can't even keep up.
 
Originally posted by pupik

Islam is also the fastest growing faith in the world today. Christianity can't even keep up.
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I've heared the opposite,... that Christianity is growing the fastest. But I heared that on NPR, and we know how many times my supposed info that came from them has been debunked.
 
Originally posted by Masterblaster
Arent we livin in that state now ?
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I know people who believe that life on earth is, in all actuality, Hell. We already have no chance, we are dead sould eternally doomed, no eternal life for us. It's an interesting concept.

But if you've ever felt joy, you know it can't be.
 
Just like Coke and Pepsi: One company always claims more people like their product better...

Well, I think that physical life on earth (not just the planet) is all we're going to know. All else is an illusion, to me.

Learn from it, enjoy it, do good things with it, and make yourself and other happy, and you'll have a positive experience from it all. That's my idea of heaven. I've been there a few times and let me tell you that everyone's present and invited, no matter what you beleive in.

If you stay ignorant, hate it, hurt yourself and others, make the world a more negative place, then you're livig in hell. Funny how they may be in the exact same place, but I just...don't...see...it. :)

It's all how you view it.
 
Originally posted by pupik


Islam is also the fastest growing faith in the world today. Christianity can't even keep up.
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If this is true, why does it matter? It can only matter in the sense that religions are most useful in the world as political forces, as vantage points from which to control and wield power. As fussy little personally warm fuzzies, there is nothing substantive to say about them.
 
Originally posted by pupik
Watch the movie Malcolm X, you'll see he spoke of taking the pilgrimage right along side men whiter than any White Man he saw in America.

Islam is also the fastest growing faith in the world today. Christianity can't even keep up.
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I found this a few weeks back. It's just a size comparison of the major religions of the world.
 

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