Why can't everything be turbocharged

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sins1er
Standby... Or google mazdaspeed 6 specs. The first article is from car and driver. It fails to give C/O but it does give boost rating (15.6!!) and the fuel pressure (ready for this? 1885 psi!?? WTF?)... I'll find the compression ratio for ya if you hang in there. I know it's High though. Almost positive that it's 11 or 12:1
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Ok that fuel pressure has got my attention. Awaiting resource link.
 
OwensRacing
Almost all fuel injected cars today are "direct injection".
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If by today, you mean on the road today built in previous years, then hell no (though I don't think you mean this).

If you mean all cars built today, then still no.

There are many cars that are, but almost all is incorrect.


OwensRacing
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-123637512.html

Mid page by ssinstaller. Still impressive psi.
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If you look at the post below the one you are referencing, you will see that somebody else chimes in stating that the fuel pressure rarely hits 1885 psi, and mostly stays at 1600. That's still a lot of pressure but for DI injections it's the norm.

The 5.2 FSI in the Audi R8 V10 is reported to reach 1700 ish.
 
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sins1er
I humbly apologize- modified magazine says 10:1... Still high for a boosted motor tho. Specially running 15+ pounds of boost. I'm sorry for the mistake and concede. And I understand what atomization is. I'm saying it sprays fuel DIRECTLY at the sparkplugs at an over high FP to FURTHER atomize the fuel this cooling the cylinder chamber to avoid detonation.
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Direct injection is not used to cool the combustion chamber.

It is used to avoid detonation, and this is achieved at mixing the fuel with the air charge right before the spark is introduced. The amount of time between fuel delivery and spark introduction is what deters detonation, not the fact that it's cooling the air. There is so little time between when the fuel is injected into the combustion chamber to when the spark is introduced that there is no time to cool.
 
ford_racer
Direct injection is not used to cool the combustion chamber.

It is used to avoid detonation, and this is achieved at mixing the fuel with the air charge right before the spark is introduced. The amount of time between fuel delivery and spark introduction is what deters detonation, not the fact that it's cooling the air. There is so little time between when the fuel is injected into the combustion chamber to when the spark is introduced that there is no time to cool.
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It's a side effect of the super atomization. It's not the main goal, but it does happen. I guess "cooling" the chamber is a poor choice of words.. I shouldve said it keeps temps lower. And I also stated the detonation fact... Twice. I think our friend here is confused on what direct injection really is. I just saw your other post, again I think he is confused about direct injection. Yes 1600 psi. Is average but still ridiculously high compared to a normal motor.
 
sins1er
It's a side effect of the super atomization. It's not the main goal, but it does happen. I guess "cooling" the chamber is a poor choice of words.. I shouldve said it keeps temps lower. And I also stated the detonation fact... Twice. I think our friend here is confused on what direct injection really is. I just saw your other post, again I think he is confused about direct injection. Yes 1600 psi. Is average but still ridiculously high compared to a normal motor.
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You are true on all accounts. I wasn't saying you were wrong about the cooling, just that it's not the point. I'm glad we agree on these.

And yes that's really high for fuel pressure, but like you said, it's high when compared to a normal fuel injected motor. It's supposed to be. It's like saying a normal fuel injected motor is high when compared to the 5-10 lbs a carburetor sees, it's just that it's supposed to be.

The sad thing about direct injection, despite it's performance and economic benefits, is it's reliability and cost. Cost is supposed to be high with new technology, so I'm sure it will come down in price like everything else has, but I'm intereted in seeing what the solution Audi and other companies will come up with in regards to the intake fouls getting fouled by gunk that the fuel normally cleans off.
 
ford_racer
If by today, you mean on the road today built in previous years, then hell no (though I don't think you mean this).

If you mean all cars built today, then still no.

There are many cars that are, but almost all is incorrect.

If you look at the post below the one you are referencing, you will see that somebody else chimes in stating that the fuel pressure rarely hits 1885 psi, and mostly stays at 1600. That's still a lot of pressure but for DI injections it's the norm.

The 5.2 FSI in the Audi R8 V10 is reported to reach 1700 ish.
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Actually. I had to read up on direct port after your post. I will admit not knowing what it was. Also make way more sense why fuel pressure is so high. Also amazing that a nozzle can survive in a combustion chamber for any amount of time. Let alone thousands of miles.

Impressive and learned something.

See you can teach an old new tricks. ;)

I was thinking direct port injection. :(
 
OwensRacing
Actually. I had to read up on direct port after your post. I will admit not knowing what it was. Also make way more sense why fuel pressure is so high. Also amazing that a nozzle can survive in a combustion chamber for any amount of time. Let alone thousands of miles.

Impressive and learned something.

See you can teach an old new tricks. ;)

I was thinking direct port injection. :(
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The nozzles are engineered to survive the temperature and pressure. That's why DI systems are so expensive. It is pretty cool that engineers can effectively produce these components that last as long as they do.
 
ford_racer
The nozzles are engineered to survive the temperature and pressure. That's why DI systems are so expensive. It is pretty cool that engineers can effectively produce these components that last as long as they do.
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I thinking how this opens up the air movement. As well the cleanliness of valves.

You are obvious knowledgable. Assume by mentioning Carbs you got some yrs on ya.

With that you know how heads are ported and designed to promote fuel mixtures. More so carb then multi port. However the DI would not need anything to help swirl keep fuel suspended. So that should allow more back yard port jobs. Add boost and we are all now pro head porters. Hahaha

But seriously. This is a good deal no doubts. Also assuming the higher pressure raises the vaporizing temp of the fuel. That also answers how it can work in traffic and idling.

Why did I not think of this. Oh yea cause I'd used a set of LSX injectors and burned the entire thing down!!! Hahahaha
 
OwensRacing
I thinking how this opens up the air movement. As well the cleanliness of valves.

You are obvious knowledgable. Assume by mentioning Carbs you got some yrs on ya.

With that you know how heads are ported and designed to promote fuel mixtures. More so carb then multi port. However the DI would not need anything to help swirl keep fuel suspended. So that should allow more back yard port jobs. Add boost and we are all now pro head porters. Hahaha

But seriously. This is a good deal no doubts. Also assuming the higher pressure raises the vaporizing temp of the fuel. That also answers how it can work in traffic and idling.

Why did I not think of this. Oh yea cause I'd used a set of LSX injectors and burned the entire thing down!!! Hahahaha
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Ha. I'm 23. I'm not that old.

As for porting, as far as I can tell, you are correct.

With traditional heads, they were ported to induce the correct swirl, like you mentioned. On carbs, they even left some of the small casting marks in order to futher mix the air/fuel charge.

When DI reaches platforms that are more mod friendly, such as LSx engines and Mustangs, I would think they would go almost exclusively for air velocity, further enhancing the volumetric efficiency of an NA engine, but I'm not a professional in that aspect, so I'm not 100% sure. On boosted applications, I can't see it being as important, at least not on street and mild race vehicles, since you can always just up the boost for more air.
 
ford_racer
Ha. I'm 23. I'm not that old.

As for porting, as far as I can tell, you are correct.

With traditional heads, they were ported to induce the correct swirl, like you mentioned. On carbs, they even left some of the small casting marks in order to futher mix the air/fuel charge.

When DI reaches platforms that are more mod friendly, such as LSx engines and Mustangs, I would think they would go almost exclusively for air velocity, further enhancing the volumetric efficiency of an NA engine, but I'm not a professional in that aspect, so I'm not 100% sure. On boosted applications, I can't see it being as important, at least not on street and mild race vehicles, since you can always just up the boost for more air.
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36 here Growing up in the 80's cars were kinda weak. I had really thought I missed the best yrs ever in cars. 60's early 70's. However come the 90's this thought was gone and I knew then this was the best time to be a car guy.


Seriously today's factory cars making what we dreamed of in the early 90's.

Spraying a bolt on Fox body got you 12's and serious street cred. Hahaha Now 12's is easy just buy manu of the stock cars capable. Ranger went 10's in a stock Z06. Seriously incredible time to be a car guy!
 
OwensRacing
Growing up in the 80's cars were kinda weak. I had really thought I missed the best yrs ever in cars. 60's early 70's. However come the 90's this thought was gone and I knew then this was the best time to be a car guy.


Seriously today's factory cars making what we dreamed of in the early 90's.

Spraying a bolt on Fox body got you 12's and serious street cred. Hahaha Now 12's is easy just buy manu of the stock cars capable. Ranger went 10's in a stock Z06. Seriously incredible time to be a car guy!
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Yup.

I love when people talk about cars being so potent from the 60s. They talk about LS6 454s making 450 rated horsepower, but actually coming with more.

What they fail to realize is the rating system. Cars those days were dynoed in unrealistic conditions. The testers made sure the humidity and temperature were ideal, and they dynoed it with no accessories on the engine. Just the engine.

Cars now are dynoed for power under realistic conditions, or semi-realistic conditions, with accessories on. 500 horsepower then was more like 450 or less horsepower now. That, in addition to the HORRID tires back then, were the reason they were so damn slow for the power they "had".

Like you said, we went from 14s being fast, to 12s being fast in the 90s, to 11s and 10s these days.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjgaxdl-z-g

As i am running a VW golf 1998 vr6 turbo with standard engine internals but low compression spacer plate i find this video very funny what can be done fairly cheaply.The speeds are MPH not KPH lol.
And the reason pd wont let you add a turbo to the R32 is that it will compete with HPA R32.
 
ford_racer
GMs have always been good for that. :p
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80's boost car. Can you imagine the boost leaks with the 1,000 miles of vacuum lines?!?!?

Almost as bad if not worse then a DSM.
 
sins1er
Wow. It's different for sure, I like em all,
But running my car up to 9000 rpm is orgasmic... Now my dad collects all things mopar, and his srt-10 ram sounds sick, as well as his classic charger (not sure of year) :duh: I'm just a Honda guy. Always have been. Different strokes I guess.
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It's all good, I'm not trying to hate to be honest I think the Mitsubishis sound horrid N/A. I'd much rather have a Honda than a non-turbo Mitsu. However when I hear a N/A V8 set up to 7000-8500 redline that too me is way sexier than a lot of cars even those with that sweet superchared whistle.
 
I don't think turbo charging a blender would be a good idea. After all, you said why can't everything be turbocharged.
 
OwensRacing
80's boost car. Can you imagine the boost leaks with the 1,000 miles of vacuum lines?!?!?

Almost as bad if not worse then a DSM.
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Oh Dude it wast terrible. I went through and methodically replaced every one. By the time I was done with the car It was running low 12's fun car
 
iamsupernasty
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Since GT5 doesn't feature any penalties for abusing and destroying engines by poorly modifying them, they simply prevented you from making the stupid mistake in the first place.
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Installing a turbo on your car doesn't mean your "abusing" engine, ignorant people these days. :lol:
 
Crazed_Coupe
Installing a turbo on your car doesn't mean your "abusing" engine, ignorant people these days. :lol:
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Speaking of ignorant people, how bout those ***** that take a statement you made and twist it into something different?

I didn't say turbo charging a car means your abusing a car. I said that turbo-charging certain cars is a recipe for disaster and could definitely be considered abuse. Also if you just throw a giant blower on a car without modifying anything else, you definitely risk hurting something.
 
iamsupernasty
Speaking of ignorant people, how bout those ***** that take a statement you made and twist it into something different?

I didn't say turbo charging a car means your abusing a car. I said that turbo-charging certain cars is a recipe for disaster and could definitely be considered abuse. Also if you just throw a giant blower on a car without modifying anything else, you definitely risk hurting something.
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Don't use that kind of language sweetheart!

In the post that I quoted you never said anything about "certain cars". 💡

Edit: How is turbocharging a car a stupid mistake? :lol:
 
Crazed_Coupe
Don't use that kind of language sweetheart!

In the post that I quoted you never said anything about "certain cars". 💡

Edit: How is turbocharging a car a stupid mistake? :lol:
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The post you quoted, was in response to someones response to my original post. Before you start calling people ignorant, at least be sure of what their point was.

How is it a stupid mistake? Take a Honda S2000 and throw a big turbo on it without changing anything. I'd LOVE to see you rev that car to 10,000 RPM more than a few times without throwing a piston through the hood.

How about a 88' Lebaron with 150k miles? Wanna try throwing a turbo on that car?

How about a Ferrari F50? You think it's not stupid to throw a turbo on that? That sir, would make you the ignorant one.
 
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