Why doesn't Polyphony hire more people?

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 5' started by Mr. Boy, Jun 17, 2011.

  1. Mr. Boy

    Mr. Boy

    Messages:
    676
    Polyphony Digital have about 140 employees according to Wikipedia (or 110 according to their website) And as we all know, they take far too much time to develop their games, and GT5 was released as an unfinished product. How hard would it be for them to double or triple their workforce to finish their games faster? For instance, Ubisoft has about 450 people working on the Assassins Creed series, and now they're releasing an AC game every year. And each one is as expansive and detailed as any GT game. Surely with more employees, Yamauchi-san could make better use of that $60 million budget Sony gave him, and make GT into everything he wants it to be.
     
  2. Jacob

    Jacob

    Messages:
    5,249
    Location:
    Sweden
    I'm not sure the workforce would've changed the development rate of GT5, there must've been many other factors to why it took "so long". Licenses, what to include, music, engine sounds, etc.
     
  3. Tireseas

    Tireseas

    Messages:
    149
    Throwing more people at a problem only works to an extent, eventually you're going to hit diminishing returns and hit it hard. Faster release schedules are also not necessarily a great thing, ask most CoD players how well it's worked out.
     
  4. Mr. Boy

    Mr. Boy

    Messages:
    676
    I don't mean we need to have a GT game every year, like CoD, NFS, or AC. One every three years would be fine.
     
  5. jakeBG18

    jakeBG18

    Messages:
    508
    Location:
    Canada
    On top of that,the extra workforce would require pay as well hence dipping into the budget further.It's been pointed out by multiple magazines ect.(not that I believe what I read on the internet,just saying)that Kaz is a perfectionist,and he wanted 2 more years.I personally think he had a lot of ambitious idea's that took so long to develop but in the end didn't make the final cut because Sony was getting desperate to release it,so they cut what they could to make the game seem finished,polished thing's a bit,still had some polishing to do but ran out of time and/or money and was forced to release it.I think if GT6 releases this generation of consoles it will be a realization of what he had in mind for GT5 and (potentially) be an amazing game....I do believe I'm rambling :guilty:

    EDIT:I forgot to get to the point in my rambling.What I was getting at was I dont think the amount of people working on the game was the issue,I think it was Kaz's stubbornness for perfection and wanting to shove everything he could into the game and make it perfect regardless of how long it took,along with Sony pressuring him to get it out already regardless of the quality,that ultimately forced GT5 to be released in the state it was in,in November.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2011
  6. FishHunters

    FishHunters

    Messages:
    1,973
    Location:
    United States
    cause it's expensive. Read an article that for each programmer it's an average of $86,000 per year.

    @jake - I agree with your edit. Kaz wanted too much. He kept getting ideas; wanted GRAND; and wanted stuff he admited is next gen console stuff. Some of which is included in a limited fasion in GT5.

    However, GT6, I'm sure is going to be a PS4 game. From what he said his current ideas are all next gen console.
     
  7. jakeBG18

    jakeBG18

    Messages:
    508
    Location:
    Canada
    .....I should change my profession!
     
  8. McLarenGTR

    McLarenGTR

    Messages:
    123
    can't really compare the development of a game like AC to a simulator.
     
  9. jakeBG18

    jakeBG18

    Messages:
    508
    Location:
    Canada
    they have to attempt to build a historically accurate city thats from 400(ish)years ago,PD builds historically accurate cars...?
     
  10. Eunos_Cosmo

    Eunos_Cosmo

    Messages:
    6,469
    Location:
    Iran
    I read they only have 2 sound designers. That's absurd if true. It obvious from the game which areas they are weak in, and it would make perfect sense because the sound is horrible in the GT series.
     
  11. FishHunters

    FishHunters

    Messages:
    1,973
    Location:
    United States
    I won't be able to do this until Mon/Tues but if someone wants go through the ending movie and list who they have working on it. Forget the names, just the technical positions. Anyone up for that?
     
  12. Dan_

    Dan_ Premium

    Messages:
    3,242
    Location:
    Brazil
    My resumee was lost by the japanese mail, that's why.
     
  13. kimi123

    kimi123

    Messages:
    563
    That is lots of people. I think it is more than enough. I think proper planning, analysis more important. 150 guys for a game is quite a lot. They will hire more I guess if they want to.
     
  14. Tireseas

    Tireseas

    Messages:
    149
    Better off hiring one new guy. The Kaz reality checker, whose sole purpose is to sit around and prevent Kaz from promising things he'd need a Tardis to accomplish on time.
     
  15. bass264

    bass264

    Messages:
    652
    Location:
    Dominican Republic
    The reason they won't hire more people is because Sony wants as much money as they can get from the profits of GT and also Kaz and the other top guys at PD want to continue getting excessive amounts of $$$ that he probably doesn't even spend and doesn't want to change the way PD operates. :-|
     
  16. FishHunters

    FishHunters

    Messages:
    1,973
    Location:
    United States

    :tup:
     
  17. The fact that you point to this as a good thing and wish it happened to the GT series undermines your point entirely.
     
  18. CSLACR

    CSLACR

    Messages:
    10,437
    Location:
    United States
    I only know two facts about this.
    1. Forza 4 along with every racing game I can think of doesn't take anywhere near 6 years to semi-complete.
    2. GT5 did.

    These two indisputable facts point to one thing: GT5 took way to long to come out, and even worse to not be complete when it finally did.

    Does this mean they need to hire more people? Probably. And it also means Kaz needs a leash.
    More people doesn't mean they need 400. If they have 130, maybe they need 160, I don't know. But they need more of something.
     
  19. MoGoSpeed

    MoGoSpeed

    Messages:
    339
    I would strongly urge them to re-manage their car modeling process. Probably hire more modelers ( both cars and assests). I would also encourage a little more internationalism within their company, in both demography and in game design(advisors/sub-directors). That should fill a couple of gaps, 10-25 more people.
     
  20. Usually the lash for an exclusive game would come from the system manufacturer.

    In the case of GT5, however, it seems like Sony basically obliged Polyphony to tack on generally extraneous crap such as the 3D, full 1080p, BS Playstation Move gimmick, etc.
     
  21. sumbrownkid

    sumbrownkid Premium

    Messages:
    8,929
    Location:
    United States
    There's also team chemistry involved in small outfits like PD.

    And besides that, perhaps maybe they are looking for local talent and Kaz and the others don't like the current crop.
     
  22. CMvan46

    CMvan46

    Messages:
    2,547
    Location:
    Canada
    It's not exactly Kaz's decision to make. That would be Sony as they are the ultimate overhead there. If they don't feel the "tripled" workforce would increase profits they aren't going to higher more people just because Kaz wants it or because you want a game released every year.
     
  23. FishHunters

    FishHunters

    Messages:
    1,973
    Location:
    United States
    Tough to do when no one in the company speaks English. But you're right IMO. They need a broader base of game design "flavor".
     
  24. Mr. Boy

    Mr. Boy

    Messages:
    676
    Or at the very least, don't make us wait 5 years for a beta.
     
  25. CSLACR

    CSLACR

    Messages:
    10,437
    Location:
    United States
    I don't think anyone directly asked for it to be tripled.
    And I think you believe Sony has more say in the matters at hand than they actually do.
    PD is a separate company.
     
  26. SuperCobraJet

    SuperCobraJet (Banned)

    Messages:
    2,472
    Location:
    United States
    My thoughts exactly.
    JMO but I still believe Sony is the hindering problem at PD not Kaz.

    With Sony still engaged in a war to prevent any more red ink, which they were losing up until GT5 was almost released, I'm confident any expansion ideas would be squashed quicker than old car in a junkyard crusher.

    With Japan's recent catastrophy and the state of the world economy, I'd say that fate is still a sure bet.
     
  27. paskowitz

    paskowitz

    Messages:
    3,207
    Location:
    United States
    You are all missing the real reason. PD is Japanese. Japanese companies as a rule are closed off. Not only that they believe their work is a matter of national pride and like to keep their employees and work domestic. Japanese companies are almost specialists is specialty. They follow tradition rather than outside the box thinking. This is not "racist" its Japanese culture. Just look at Sir Howard Stringer becoming CEO of Sony which was arguably a massive move for the company, especially internally. This can also be seen in the overall failing Japanese gaming industry.
     
  28. jakeBG18

    jakeBG18

    Messages:
    508
    Location:
    Canada
    maybe off topic,but i just found this....and got sad :(

    [​IMG]
     
  29. FishHunters

    FishHunters

    Messages:
    1,973
    Location:
    United States
    I can believe that. So now are we going to see a power battle, direction, content and artistic conrtrol war between the "new" Sony and PD? I would think it might be a win for us, because they need to "open-up" the idea box.
     
  30. VQuick

    VQuick

    Messages:
    763
    Hiring more people for the PD team may not be the first direction they want to lean in. Outsourcing some work might be a bit more palatable.

    Turn10 does it that way, and in addition to their faster modeling process, that's how they can have 400+ cars every two years, plus months of DLC. Unfortunately, some of the quality control left a bit to be desired and several DLC cars had bugs that made online play frustrating.

    If PD can outsource some of their work and just check it to make sure it's right, they'd be on a roll. I'd almost go so far as to say that it's a crucial step, in light of their slower, more careful modeling work.