Why doesn't Polyphony hire more people?

[CSLACR]

Hiring more people for the PD team may not be the first direction they want to lean in. Outsourcing some work might be a bit more palatable.

Turn10 does it that way, and in addition to their faster modeling process, that's how they can have 400+ cars every two years, plus months of DLC. Unfortunately, some of the quality control left a bit to be desired and several DLC cars had bugs that made online play frustrating.

If PD can outsource some of their work and just check it to make sure it's right, they'd be on a roll. I'd almost go so far as to say that it's a crucial step, in light of their slower, more careful modeling work.

Are you kidding? They don't make sure their own work is right, there hasn't been a bug free GT game since 1.
They definitely need to "outsource" quality control.

 

[FishHunters]

Hiring more people for the PD team may not be the first direction they want to lean in. Outsourcing some work might be a bit more palatable.

Turn10 does it that way, and in addition to their faster modeling process, that's how they can have 400+ cars every two years, plus months of DLC. Unfortunately, some of the quality control left a bit to be desired and several DLC cars had bugs that made online play frustrating.

If PD can outsource some of their work and just check it to make sure it's right, they'd be on a roll. I'd almost go so far as to say that it's a crucial step, in light of their slower, more careful modeling work.

Outsourcing and Quality control are a great idea!

Are you kidding? They don't make sure their own work is right, there hasn't been a bug free GT game since 1.
They definitely need to "outsource" quality control.

Bugs? It works fine for me. Only real bug I'd say was the ability to go outside the track like the Nurb 24h "glitch".

 

[CSLACR]

Outsourcing and Quality control are a great idea!



Bugs? It works fine for me. Only real bug I'd say was the ability to go outside the track like the Nurb 24h "glitch".

Feel free to name them whatever you like.
Game saves self-destructing at a certain size. Cutting through walls. Features listed on product package not originally included. "Premium" cars missing obvious specs, such as fully adjustable downforce, proper gearing ratios.

I'm sure I'm missing some. And every single one comes down to quality control, or Kaz needing a leash.
I appreciate the mans vision, and what he's created.
That said he is horrible for business lately. 2 more years? If I had known it'd be 6 years I would have gotten an XBOX instead, let alone two more.
And I'm sure I wouldn't have been the only one. It's nothing to do with hating PD, GT5, Sony, or having a need to complain, I wanted a sim racer sooner, and had I known turn 10 would be my only game console to provide that, I would have gone with them.
p.s. (PC games, indy games, nascar games & NFS games need not apply here)

 

[GT_Prologue5]

They're a pretty quiet Japanese game company and I like it. They give me a game, I play it, then they make a new one. It's not a big deal to complain about Polyphony Digital because they're a good group that makes a good game. Of course, not everyone is going to enjoy every part of the game. Now while I hardly know a whole lot about small Japanese companies (mostly just Honda from the 40's to 70's), I hope some of you hit Google and look some stuff up on Japanese business. It's intriguing, to say the least.

Besides, and this is honest as can be, what good is a perfect game? I mean small things and fixes help make the next game. And besides, bugs and glitches garner some history of their own, and always allow for a crazy twist that really doesn't interfere with the game if you play normally.

 

[CSLACR]

They're a pretty quiet Japanese game company and I like it. They give me a game, I play it, then they make a new one. It's not a big deal to complain about Polyphony Digital because they're a good group that makes a good game. Of course, not everyone is going to enjoy every part of the game. Now while I hardly know a whole lot about small Japanese companies (mostly just Honda from the 40's to 70's), I hope some of you hit Google and look some stuff up on Japanese business. It's intriguing, to say the least.

Besides, and this is honest as can be, what good is a perfect game? I mean small things and fixes help make the next game. And besides, bugs and glitches garner some history of their own, and always allow for a crazy twist that really doesn't interfere with the game if you play normally.

There's always new cars, more old cars, and tracks, along with new features.
the OP is about hiring more people so it doesn't take a decade to release a flawed game.
6 years (should) = Perfection.
If perfection cannot be achieved in 6 years, release something other than a glorified demo (A full game) every 2 - 3 years, like they used to.
You can't get consumer feedback in the centuries between release's, can you?

 

[Spagetti69]

Besides, and this is honest as can be, what good is a perfect game?

Well really, are we as consumers just giving up the ghost now.

I can only speak for myself when I say if a game is as close to perfect as can reasonably be expected then I'm happy.

The logic of if it's perfect what good is that to me baffles me.

 

[Seismica]

As long as they can keep the workforce efficient (i.e. it takes no more 'man hours' to accomplish the same targets) I think it's essential that they increase their workforce, at least in terms of modelling. If they don't, say hello to more standard cars in GT6. It makes perfect business sense to shorten the development time by increasing the work capacity, I don't see why they didn't do this back in 2006-2007 when they must have known, at least in terms of car modelling, there was no way to finish on time.

Turn10 employs around twice the staff PD do, and that's not including the modelling which they outsource. I bet the total budgets are around the same, only Turn10 manage to get games out in 2 years rather than 5.

 

[CSLACR]

As long as they can keep the workforce efficient (i.e. it takes no more 'man hours' to accomplish the same targets) I think it's essential that they increase their workforce, at least in terms of modelling. If they don't, say hello to more standard cars in GT6. It makes perfect business sense to shorten the development time by increasing the work capacity, I don't see why they didn't do this back in 2006-2007 when they must have known, at least in terms of car modelling, there was no way to finish on time.

Turn10 employs around twice the staff PD do, and that's not including the modelling which they outsource. I bet the total budgets are around the same, only Turn10 manage to get games out in 2 years rather than 5.

Turn 10 guys probably get vacations too.
Good post.

 

[Machate-man]

According to their site:
http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/
they have 10 million yen Capital, Meaning they use 124,031.008 USD in producing disks, expanding the game, and (possibly) expanding the company.

 

[CSLACR]

According to their site:
http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/
they have 10 million yen Capital, Meaning they use 124,031.008 USD in producing disks, expanding the game, and (possibly) expanding the company.

That's what we call broke. And that's what happens when you vest all your 6 years into only 1.5 games.
Imagine what that could be if this were GT6, maybe a respectable number, maybe 10 million USD.

 

[FishHunters]

I'd have to agree. The issue may or may not be workforce but they need to get a "completed" game out every 3 years at most.

Another point, you make more money by getting two games out every six years instead of just one. That should be incentive enough to outsource or hire as needed to accomplish that task.

Edit:
2nd time I'm stating this but I firmly believe GT6 is a make or break for market share for both PD & Sony.

 

[Skiddy]

Better off hiring one new guy. The Kaz reality checker, whose sole purpose is to sit around and prevent Kaz from promising things he'd need a Tardis to accomplish on time.

This.

 

[another_jakhole]

I'd have to agree. The issue may or may not be workforce but they need to get a "completed" game out every 3 years at most.

Another point, you make more money by getting two games out every six years instead of just one. That should be incentive enough to outsource or hire as needed to accomplish that task.

Edit:
2nd time I'm stating this but I firmly believe GT6 is a make or break for market share for both PD & Sony.

I'm sure Kaz knows that. All of that. Just like they don't look at the competition, they don't need to pull a Forza and say they're making a Sim every 2 years, when it won't even come close to GT5 in that aspect. When making something LIKE a Sim, it takes more than just man-power. You need experience. Kaz and some of the PD workforce have 18 years of it. The first GT's development started in '91-'92.

 

[MikeTheHockeyFan]

That's what we call broke. And that's what happens when you vest all your 6 years into only 1.5 games.
Imagine what that could be if this were GT6, maybe a respectable number, maybe 10 million USD.

That's a completely subjective post. It just seems like you have some kind of irrational vendetta or something.

Chill out man and get some online friends together for a track day at the Ring. You seem rather stressed.

 

[another_jakhole]

I think they should ONLY add extra workers to work on modelling the cars. But that's coming from a person that doesn't know much at all about the way PD runs.

Realistically, we shouldn't be asking this (topic) question because we have no idea what it's like to be working at PD headquarters.

 

[MikeTheHockeyFan]

This thread is a symptom of the Farmville mentality.



Polyphony, WHY U NO MAK MOR CONTENT?

You must construct additional pylons.

 

[ScouserInExile]

I'm not convinced that throwing more staff at a project will do anything to imrpove it's quality.

There's only so many coders who can work on the programming side of things, it's not like doubling the coders will double the output, they can't take it in turns to write lines of code. And the more coders you have, the more problems you get with them having difering coding styles and different bits of the end-product linking together. And it becomes much harder to ensure that the coders are fitting the brief when you have a lot of them working at once.

The problem with increasing the number of artists is that it becomes exponentially more difficult to control the consistancy of the assets. The last console game I worked on had five artists and a lead artist - even though the lead artist did everything he could to maintain consistancy throughout the game, you could see which artist built different parts of the game. Now imagine multiplying that bby 20 and you can see where the problem lies.

More designers, maybe? Not sure that's such a good idea either. I've worked as a designer on titles whith one other designer and the producer acting as lead. We argued non-stop for the full life-cycle of the development about just about everything from the overall concept of the game right down to tiny little details and features.

So what are we left with? QA? The game doesn't actually have very many bugs in it, considering the size of it. What a lot of people call "bugs" on here are just design flaws. Which brings us back to the design issue - in-house testers will have their own opinions on the design of a game and will conflict with each other constantly. I've run QA departments at devlopers and publishers and had to vet reports before they were handed to the dev teams. I lost track of how many times two feature change requests in a report directly conflicted with each other.

So... the short answer, IMO, is "no".

 

[Vince_Fiero]

It seems strange to meddle in the business model of a company:

here is some theory

1) the board should have a vision: that is Sony (under pressure of investors)
2) the directors have to realize this vision: that is Kaz

On the resources that is more complicated and that is valid for the strategic goals as well. Not to forget they should be investing a bit in the future and see what direction to choose for having a great product in 5 years or so.

I resent people that call GT5 a not finished product. I worked in testing and this is a very good release IMHO. Sadly you as a client want is not always what the majority of clients want or what the company wants or is able to realize.

I enjoyed GT5p, still I have the feeling I'm starting in GT5 with all you can do in it.
I know people that enjoy GT PSP daily.

To me it seems Polyphony Digital is doing a great job, more sales and interest is the best argument they can get from us to invest further and get more resources.

P.S.: on the other hand why invest in racing suits and helmet, beats me. But OK I can live with it.

 

[Hotspitta]

maybe off topic,but i just found this....and got sad

Ouch..

 

[Hotspitta]

Besides, and this is honest as can be, what good is a perfect game? I mean small things and fixes help make the next game. And besides, bugs and glitches garner some history of their own, and always allow for a crazy twist that really doesn't interfere with the game if you play normally.

What!? Excuses Excuses...

Turn10 does it that way, and in addition to their faster modeling process, that's how they can have 400+ cars every two years, plus months of DLC. Unfortunately, some of the quality control left a bit to be desired and several DLC cars had bugs that made online play frustrating.

Like what?

 

[CSLACR]

I'm sure Kaz knows that. All of that. Just like they don't look at the competition, they don't need to pull a Forza and say they're making a Sim every 2 years, when it won't even come close to GT5 in that aspect. When making something LIKE a Sim, it takes more than just man-power. You need experience. Kaz and some of the PD workforce have 18 years of it. The first GT's development started in '91-'92.

"Pull a Forza"?

Gran Turismo can trace back its origins to 1992, when Kazunori Yamauchi set out with a group of seven to develop the original Gran Turismo, which took five years to complete.

7 guys made GT1 in less time than 130 made GT5.
And:...
GT1: 1997
GT2: 1999
GT3: 2001
GT4: 2004
GT5: 2010
It seems every two years... then one took 3 years to release.
Yup, GT games can come out every two years, and until GT5, they did.

That's a completely subjective post. It just seems like you have some kind of irrational vendetta or something.

Chill out man and get some online friends together for a track day at the Ring. You seem rather stressed.

How do you get a vendetta out of my posts? 130K for a company that's sold over 60 million games? Even if the average price is $30USD, that's 1.8 Billion dollars in sales. And after their newest game released, and has sold most of it's copies, they're left with 130K?
Yes, I am stressed, I love the GT series, and I'd like to see the company behind it not go bankrupt. 👍

 

[TenEightyOne]

And as we all know, they take far too much time to develop their games...

That kind of joke works in Viz but in the context of your statement it seems a little arrogant.

If you've ever seen the licensing process in action you'd be amazed that PD even got 50 cars into the game in the years since GT5P.

Maybe there were some core problems in GT5's development? We'll never know for sure.

What I'm reasonably confident of is that we certainly couldn't do the same, let alone better. I'm starting to feel like I'm alone in enjoying nearly every aspect of GT5 and in finding it to be a really good game!

 

[CSLACR]

That kind of joke works in Viz but in the context of your statement it seems a little arrogant.

If you've ever seen the licensing process in action you'd be amazed that PD even got 50 cars into the game in the years since GT5P.

Maybe there were some core problems in GT5's development? We'll never know for sure.

What I'm reasonably confident of is that we certainly couldn't do the same, let alone better. I'm starting to feel like I'm alone in enjoying nearly every aspect of GT5 and in finding it to be a really good game!

So we should also be amazed at Forza, Grid, Enthusia, and NFS, right?
But answer me why if (at least) 5 companies can do it, why I would be amazed?

If you find "every aspect of the game enjoyable" then you haven't experienced how much better some of it could be. Simple as that, and no offense intended.

FYI, how many cars were licensed for GT5? (Not 1,000, not even 200)

It seems strange to meddle in the business model of a company:

here is some theory

1) the board should have a vision: that is Sony (under pressure of investors)
2) the directors have to realize this vision: that is Kaz

On the resources that is more complicated and that is valid for the strategic goals as well. Not to forget they should be investing a bit in the future and see what direction to choose for having a great product in 5 years or so.

I resent people that call GT5 a not finished product. I worked in testing and this is a very good release IMHO. Sadly you as a client want is not always what the majority of clients want or what the company wants or is able to realize.

I enjoyed GT5p, still I have the feeling I'm starting in GT5 with all you can do in it.
I know people that enjoy GT PSP daily.

To me it seems Polyphony Digital is doing a great job, more sales and interest is the best argument they can get from us to invest further and get more resources.

P.S.: on the other hand why invest in racing suits and helmet, beats me. But OK I can live with it.

Sales are down, big time. You were saying?
Also something along the lines of up rendered graphics from 10 years ago being "finished"?

I'm actually not trying to be a prick here, but if you're going to claim something with nothing to stand behind it besides personal taste, I have to ask why.

 

[FishHunters]

" sold over 60 million games? Even if the average price is $30USD, that's 1.8 Billion dollars in sales. :

That was $68 Million shipped about 2 months ago, does that mean sold? Dunno. I would think so. Even at $20 a pop we're talking more than enough bread!

 

[alucard0712]

I have to ask same question.
T10 have 600ppl team...And soon we will see.

 

[ScouserInExile]

"Pull a Forza"?
7 guys made GT1 in less time than 130 made GT5.
And:...
GT1: 1997
GT2: 1999
GT3: 2001
GT4: 2004
GT5: 2010
It seems every two years... then one took 3 years to release.
Yup, GT games can come out every two years, and until GT5, they did.

Yeah, but you can't seriously compare game development in the late 90's - early 00's to development now. In '97, you could get a half-decent game developed with about a dozen staff in 12-18 months. Now, you need ten times that number to even consider getting anything done in two years or more.

 

[Force-Feedback]

Online Garage
Head to Head racing
Time Trial
Track Day
B-Spec Race
License Test
Drift Contest
Tuning / Setting Features
Friend List
Lobby

Voice Chat
Bulletin Board
Spectator Mode
Team Builder
Club Builder
Colouring Editor (or Coloring to you colonists! )
Number Plate Editor
Race Builder Tool
Photo Album

So, Obviously some of these are in there already but have you guys got any opinions on these? (I cba to tick myself, too busy grinding for helmets that AREN'T PINK DAMMIT!!)

Anyway quick opinion from me the team builder/club builder idea would be good, kinda like a clan room that maybe has its own garage and team if they implemented a team system (pit crew and stuff).

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I'm not convinced that throwing more staff at a project will do anything to imrpove it's quality.

There's only so many coders who can work on the programming side of things, it's not like doubling the coders will double the output, they can't take it in turns to write lines of code. And the more coders you have, the more problems you get with them having difering coding styles and different bits of the end-product linking together. And it becomes much harder to ensure that the coders are fitting the brief when you have a lot of them working at once.

The problem with increasing the number of artists is that it becomes exponentially more difficult to control the consistancy of the assets. The last console game I worked on had five artists and a lead artist - even though the lead artist did everything he could to maintain consistancy throughout the game, you could see which artist built different parts of the game. Now imagine multiplying that bby 20 and you can see where the problem lies.

More designers, maybe? Not sure that's such a good idea either. I've worked as a designer on titles whith one other designer and the producer acting as lead. We argued non-stop for the full life-cycle of the development about just about everything from the overall concept of the game right down to tiny little details and features.

So what are we left with? QA? The game doesn't actually have very many bugs in it, considering the size of it. What a lot of people call "bugs" on here are just design flaws. Which brings us back to the design issue - in-house testers will have their own opinions on the design of a game and will conflict with each other constantly. I've run QA departments at devlopers and publishers and had to vet reports before they were handed to the dev teams. I lost track of how many times two feature change requests in a report directly conflicted with each other.

So... the short answer, IMO, is "no".

Most importantly, as your post points out, is the necessity for a good capable management team,
structured so that it can resolve all those conflicts and problems and keep things headed in the right direction.
The more people that are involved the more vital this becomes.

Just adding more people without this key ingredient, won't yield very efficient results.

 

[Hotspitta]

I have to ask same question.
T10 have 600ppl team...And soon we will see.

indeed...👍

 

[Willfred_1]

they ought to employ people from different countries so they can get a wider range of cars
for instance a couple in Europe. a couple in america, and some in australia