Why I am so horrible and slow?

Tommy_D
The problem with slow in, fast out on daily races is that people will stuff you on corner entry because "you are going too slow" and they see an opportunity to pass. So in Daily Racing its a bit counterintuitive. You need to either be fast everywhere so no one can catch you (in which case you can go with a slow in, fast out approach), or play more of a defensive roll by not leaving open opportunities at corner entries. This usually means taking not-so-ideal racing lines and forcing a bit more of a fast in, slow out strategy. It all depends on where you are in the pack. You have to kind of ping pong between the two approaches in some races.
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That is how racing is sipposed to be. Different lines for different situations.
But with that comes a different problem for a few specific cars that would love the smoother way of cornering (e.g Megane Trophy, with the lack of power but lower weight compared to the other group cars).
 
newmedia_dev
Absolutely that @Tommy_D

You see it most in the way you drive the 155 in the game vs the WRX for example. You drive the WRX like a litre bike, slower in higher gear and ride/drive the throttle out smoothly minimising acceleration upshifts where the 155 you scream it in but it has much shorter gearing so corner speed differentials look the same but in reality they aren't.
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I think that's why I gravitate towards using the 155 vs the WRX. I really want to carry that corner speed and keep the revs high. The 155 is also faster at the start of every race than pretty much any other car in the field. I tend to gain at least 1 position going in to turn 1 at the start of the race. Then its a matter of keeping the corner speed because it's the long straights where the 155 tends to lose out to the WRX.
 
Meythia
That is how racing is sipposed to be. Different lines for different situations.
But with that comes a different problem for a few specific cars that would love the smoother way of cornering (e.g Megane Trophy, with the lack of power but lower weight compared to the other group cars).
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But the problem comes with driving a line regardless of what's in front, behind and beside you. You can't take those lines....for example, if the WRX brakes earlier and accelerates earlier in the 155 behind you have to brake when I do regardless if you can brake later, you can't in that given moment.

Also the appreciation of overall lap time vs a single corner dive bomb. Sure they are faster in to turn 1 but throughout the lap they become rolling road blocks.

It's ok to have different strength cars but people need to understand racing first before they worry about what car is better for them etc. if you don't understand how the cars around you are driving and why they are driving like they are then maybe it's a thinking issue rather than corner speed or different lines issue

Tommy_D
I think that's why I gravitate towards using the 155 vs the WRX. I really want to carry that corner speed and keep the revs high. The 155 is also faster at the start of every race than pretty much any other car in the field. I tend to gain at least 1 position going in to turn 1 at the start of the race. Then its a matter of keeping the corner speed because it's the long straights where the 155 tends to lose out to the WRX.
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I always give up my position if it's a 155 behind, frustrating through the rest of the lap as you constantly nearly rear end them out of the bends as they go a gear lower and have to upshift on or near the exit and then it's just a matter of picking them off on the straights.

It's a great car for twisty circuits a bit too good really but it sucks with flowing or mid range corners in to straights.

Edit: I rode a 600 and now have thou ;)
 
I had a 600, then got a 636 for a dedicated track bike and ended up buying a 750 for the street. Sold both the 600 and 636 but still have the 750. Never got in to the litre bikes. The 750 is already so stupid fast I never felt the need to have anything more powerful. I also never modified my bikes. They were already so much more capable than I was, but if I were to modify them it would have been suspension components that I changed as I never felt that the bikes needed more power.

newmedia_dev
...as you constantly nearly rear end them out of the bends as they go a gear lower and have to upshift on or near the exit and then it's just a matter of picking them off on the straights.
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This is another little nugget of how to be faster out on the track. Minimizing shifting, even if you have a racing transmission, tends to lead to faster lap times. You will see a lot of the fast drivers come out of the turns in a higher gear than you may think is ideal. This works to their advantage two fold. 1) it minimizes the number of shifts they have to do as each shift takes up just a little bit of time and, 2) the higher gear tends to minimize wheel spin coming out if the turn so more power goes to the ground.

To the OP, or anyone for that matter, try experimenting with taking turns in a higher gear than you normally do and see what the results are. Especially those low-mid speed sweepers. You may be surprised to gain a few tenths on those turns.
 
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Tommy_D
Back in my motorcycle track days we called those people "Parker Screamers". They were the liter (litre???) bike guys out on their first day going up against seasoned 600cc riders. The 600cc guys needed to maintain speed throughout the corners to keep their best lap times, but the liter bike guys could park it into the corners and make up the time screaming down the straights. It always chuffed the 600 guys having to slow down through the turns to avoid crashing in to a "parker screamer." As I got better at my cornering speed, I too found it to be quite annoying to pass a liter bike guy on the brakes, take the turn faster than them only to see them pass me on the straight because they have 30mph more on their top end than I did.

I have noticed this "parker screamer" approach being beneficial to overall lap times with GT7, though. I find that if I accidentally brake a bit too much into a turn (for example the sweeping left hander at Sardegna leading to the back straight) that I can exit the turn going just a bit faster than if I maintained a bit more corner speed but had to feather the throttle the whole way so I don't drift too wide into the embankment. In the end I can gain about half a second on that straight alone.

Edit: The problem with slow in, fast out on daily races is that people will stuff you on corner entry because "you are going too slow" and they see an opportunity to pass. So in Daily Racing its a bit counterintuitive. You need to either be fast everywhere so no one can catch you (in which case you can go with a slow in, fast out approach), or play more of a defensive roll by not leaving open opportunities at corner entries. This usually means taking not-so-ideal racing lines and forcing a bit more of a fast in, slow out strategy. It all depends on where you are in the pack. You have to kind of ping pong between the two approaches in some races.
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You hit the nail on the head. Every once in a while a guy will brake with you and wait for the right opportunity to pass. But Usually as someone sees that the are 1 mph faster than you they try to overtake.
 
You need to pratice a lot, first find consistency, its very important to learn how to keep the control of the car.

You can make a very fast lap but in real racing the most important time its the overall time you take from start to end...
Which means dont try to always push, try to identify safe braking marks, when you achieve to drive in the same second for several laps in a row you can start to find more time in each lap.

Search for Tidgney driving lessons on youtube, there you´ll find great and important tips and also know GT a little bit better, his videos were made on GT sport but they work on GT7 also.

Also dont rush it, its more important to do a research and pratice knowing what your doing, youll save a lot of time by doing that cause theres little things you need to learn and pratice from the start.

So pratice a lot to get used to the new Gear and research on methods that will help you in your journey.
 
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KaiB
You need to pratice a lot, first find consistency, its very important to learn how to keep the control of the car.

You can make a very fast lap but in real racing the most important time its the overall time you take from start to end...
Which means dont try to always push, try to identify safe braking marks, when you achieve to drive in the same second for several laps in a row you can start to find more time in each lap.

Search for Tidgney driving lessons on youtube, there you´ll find great and important tips and also know GT a little bit better, his videos were made on GT sport but they work on GT7 also.

Also dont rush it, its more important to do a research and pratice knowing what your doing, youll save a lot of time by doing that cause theres little things you need to learn and pratice from the start.

So pratice a lot to get used to the new Gear and research on methods that will help you in your journey.
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Thank you so much !

D622FBB2-B2BF-4186-8C8B-F97B993A3464.jpeg

This is all on you ! After one week thanking to your advices! THANK YOU GUYS!!

RacingGrandpa
Your not faster on a controller than on a wheel. Or vice versa.
I am 59 and do 1:37.9.
I posted my fastest lap in game as a replay, you can search for gtp07 to find it
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I will. Great achievement ! I will probably buy a load cell brake, I thin it can help
 
Meythia
It is your very own dedication of asking for advice and trying to improve on it that makes you faster. Giving this advice is only part of the results you see.
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It was fundamental to have some support. Support brings you way farer than you should. I know it perfectly ;) Didn't had so much support when I was a child, always have been free to do whatever I wanted but...no support. Results: good/big achievements in work, BUT no Oscar, no other things which are really important....Support is everything ;)
 
From what I saw -
  • Braking to early & too long - Try trail braking
  • Not hitting the Apexes allowing you to carry more speed out. "Slow in Fast Out"
  • Just guessing, but are you not left foot braking?
Just working on those 3 things will greatly increase your lap times
 
Delta795
From what I saw -
  • Braking to early & too long - Try trail braking
  • Not hitting the Apexes allowing you to carry more speed out. "Slow in Fast Out"
  • Just guessing, but are you not left foot braking?
Just working on those 3 things will greatly increase your lap times
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Hi Delta!
1. still have to understand what is trail braking (I am stupid). I bought a pedal with load cell, it Will arrive soon, hope it will help.
2. I will try to not hit apexes
3. No, I brake with the left ;) and accelerate with the right foot.
It's only one week, I have to consider myself satisfied, especially with the help of advices like yours!
 
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Matteocarlito
Hi Delta!
1. still have to understand what is trail braking (I am stupid). I bought a pedal with load cell, it Will arrive soon, hope it will help.
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Traction basically is like this:
100% braking <> 0% steering wheel input
0% braking <> 100% steering wheel input
And everything in between.
With each bit you want the car to turn more, you need to release the brakes a bit more.

I am a bit sad that the license tests of GT7 dont have anything close to the trail braking test of GTSport, because this was actually pretty good training.
 
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Meythia
Traction basically is like this:
100% braking <> 0% steering wheel input
0% braking <> 100% steering wheel input
And everything in between.
With each bit you want the car to turn more, you need to release the brakes a bit more.

I am a bit sad that the license tests of GT7 dont have anything close to the trail braking test of GTSport, because this was actually pretty good training.
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I am studying on the internet :) I will figure it out :) seems a mythological thing I can’t get through :). But inside this trail braking there are the 2 seconds I am missing
 
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Matteocarlito
Hi Delta!
1. still have to understand what is trail braking (I am stupid). I bought a pedal with load cell, it Will arrive soon, hope it will help.
2. I will try to not hit apexes
3. No, I brake with the left ;) and accelerate with the right foot.
It's only one week, I have to consider myself satisfied, especially with the help of advices like yours!
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Hi Matteo!

Trail braking is a technique where you hit the brakes and then gradually release the brake pressure while simultaneously turning into the apex of a turn. Once you hit the apex you accelerate. This way you can brake later and carry more speed through turns. Be sure to learn every braking point so that you brake at the same spot every time, lap after lap. You can use different objects by the track for reference, or GT's visual assits.

You can also carry more speed through turns with better driving line and correct gear. Use the whole width of the track so that you have to rotate the car a little as possible. Go as wide as possible. If you're using manual gearbox you can use 2nd gear (or sometimes even 1st) to rotate the car through sharp corners but might want to accelerate using a higher gear so you shift up before you start accelerating. This prevents wheel spin and gives you better acceleration.

Practice makes perfect and patience is the key. I would suggest trying to gold as many circuit experiences and license tests as possible because it's all very good practice.
 
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Thank you all! I think
This is something that will come gradually.
Hope the load cell brake will help.
As a mere example the race three I posted in Croatia, I am between 2 and 4 seconds slower than the best, meaning I loose 0,300 approx every turn.
Keywords will be :
1. Smoothness in braking, not all on a sudden (but this depends as others said on the moment of the race)
2. Experience and efforts in practicing

If I understand correctly trail braking is braking when you are going straight and then playing with the brake during the turn, than shift up and accelerate after the half of the turn.
 
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Trail braking is basically riding the brakes while at the entry of the turn. It's purpose is to allow you to brake ever so slightly later than your opponent to gain position on them. If your opponent doesnt trail brake, they basically get 100% of their braking done on the straight leading up to the corner entry. If you trail brake you will be getting 80% of your braking done on the straight and 20% done on corner entry. That's why you gain position on them.

The risk with trail braking is that you accidentally miss your optimal braking spot and brake just a touch late. Sure you still get 70% of your braking done on the straight, but now you have added 10% more braking to be done in the corner. You are already asking a lot out of your front tires to help stop the car, but now you are asking them to turn and help change the direction of the car while not giving up on all that braking they are doing. This can lead to understeer/plowing and causing you to have to shed off even more speed than required to regain control of the car. Your opponent can then perform the old "switcheroo" and zip right past you.

So trail braking isn't always the "fastest" way around a track, it's just another trick in the bag to help you get around the track when there are other people out there. As mentioned previously, this game tends to reward a "slow in, fast out" approach a lot more than those who maintain more corner speed.

Of course if you are an alien you can combine trail braking and fast corner speed to get you the fastest ways around all the corners of a track. I'm certainly not that good and am picking and choosing when and where trail braking would be most advantageous. For example, the hairpin turn at Deep Forest. If I'm fighting to get a position on someone at the end of that straight, I may try late braking them and seeing if I can trail brake just a bit in to that turn. It won't be the fastest way around that particular turn but if it gains me the position, then it's a good tactic. If I am all alone and no one is fighting for position, I will try to get all my braking done on the straight and get the car rotated as perfectly as I can so I can go full throttle as soon as possible.
 
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Tommy_D
Trail braking is basically riding the brakes while at the entry of the turn. It's purpose is to allow you to brake ever so slightly later than your opponent to gain position on them. If your opponent doesnt trail brake, they basically get 100% of their braking done on the straight leading up to the corner entry. If you trail brake you will be getting 80% of your braking done on the straight and 20% done on corner entry. That's why you gain position on them.

The risk with trail braking is that you accidentally miss your optimal braking spot and brake just a touch late. Sure you still get 70% of your braking done on the straight, but now you have added 10% more braking to be done in the corner. You are already asking a lot out of your front tires to help stop the car, but now you are asking them to turn and help change the direction of the car while not giving up on all that braking they are doing. This can lead to understeer/plowing and causing you to have to shed off even more speed than required to regain control of the car. Your opponent can then perform the old "switcheroo" and zip right past you.

So trail braking isn't always the "fastest" way around a track, it's just another trick in the bag to help you get around the track when there are other people out there. As mentioned previously, this game tends to reward a "slow in, fast out" approach a lot more than those who maintain more corner speed.

Of course if you are an alien you can combine trail braking and fast corner speed to get you the fastest ways around all the corners of a track. I'm certainly not that good and am picking and choosing when and where trail braking would be most advantageous. For example, the hairpin turn at Deep Forest. If I'm fighting to get a position on someone at the end of that straight, I may try late braking them and seeing if I can trail brake just a bit in to that turn. It won't be the fastest way around that particular turn but if it gains me the position, then it's a good tactic. If I am all alone and no one is fighting for position, I will try to get all my braking done on the straight and get the car rotated as perfectly as I can so I can go full throttle as soon as possible.
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Hi Tommy thank you for this great answer. For what I understood ‘trail brake’ is just ‘modulating your turn’. The risks are high because you risk to make incredible mistakes and go over the barrier.
Still need to understand if I can use the apex or not, and how to gain these two seconds to get the excellence, but honestly after one week 4%-6% more than aliens has to be considered an achievement, especially because I can dedicate 2 hours in the evening to the game, and after 50 years old evening means being VERY tired :)
 
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Matteocarlito
Hi! Well in my perception Arcade means casual, but it does not really feel casual train for hours to achieve improvements!
And this is a good thing!
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Yeah, the game is a Sim. There are certain people hell bent discrediting the physics model of the game when it's actually more accurate than a certain PC sim that's hailed as one of the best.
 
Akwaaba
But we are all different. I cannot remember how long it took me to get faster with a G29 over a controller - but I am sure it was not very long.
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Yeah I agree, depends on the person. I started off as bad as anyone with a wheel, then got used to it, then went downhill again and couldn't get my head around why I was so fast with a control pad but slower with a wheel even tho I was driving much smoother.
Nowadays I couldn't imagine not using the wheel, but it honestly took me so long to be completely proficient (fully manual/no aids at all).
 
Firestone
Yeah, the game is a Sim. There are certain people hell bent discrediting the physics model of the game when it's actually more accurate than a certain PC sim that's hailed as one of the best.
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As it seems to me there is absolutely nothing arcade here. If you remove the assistances you enter in a world of simulation. It's not a simulation, maybe, of real driving. It's just a really hard and fun "e-sport"
RikkiGT-R
Yeah I agree, depends on the person. I started off as bad as anyone with a wheel, then got used to it, then went downhill again and couldn't get my head around why I was so fast with a control pad but slower with a wheel even tho I was driving much smoother.
Nowadays I couldn't imagine not using the wheel, but it honestly took me so long to be completely proficient (fully manual/no aids at all).
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I tried again with a controller, yes, it' so much faster. The car turns like magic on the circuit. But compared to the wheel...zero fun.
 
Matteocarlito
As it seems to me there is absolutely nothing arcade here. If you remove the assistances you enter in a world of simulation. It's not a simulation, maybe, of real driving. It's just a really hard and fun "e-sport"

I tried again with a controller, yes, it' so much faster. The car turns like magic on the circuit. But compared to the wheel...zero fun.
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I think it's a perfect simulator of racing. Not driving.
 
Matteocarlito
Thank you all! I think
This is something that will come gradually.
Hope the load cell brake will help.
As a mere example the race three I posted in Croatia, I am between 2 and 4 seconds slower than the best, meaning I loose 0,300 approx every turn.
Keywords will be :
1. Smoothness in braking, not all on a sudden (but this depends as others said on the moment of the race)
2. Experience and efforts in practicing

If I understand correctly trail braking is braking when you are going straight and then playing with the brake during the turn, than shift up and accelerate after the half of the turn.
Click to expand...
Here's how to trail brake:
  • Brake in a straight line at maximum force.
  • Slightly before the turn in point begin to ease off the brakes.
  • Begin to turn into the corner.
  • As you increase steering angle, reduce braking pressure.
  • Use appropriate amount of braking to keep a well-balanced car through the corner entry phase.

Matteocarlito
Hi Tommy thank you for this great answer. For what I understood ‘trail brake’ is just ‘modulating your turn’. The risks are high because you risk to make incredible mistakes and go over the barrier.
Still need to understand if I can use the apex or not, and how to gain these two seconds to get the excellence, but honestly after one week 4%-6% more than aliens has to be considered an achievement, especially because I can dedicate 2 hours in the evening to the game, and after 50 years old evening means being VERY tired :)
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Hey again! Hitting the Apex is vital in gaining speed & essentially taking time off a lap.
By hitting the apex correctly you will carry more speed out of the corner and using all of the track -

You can turn apex markers on in the game to help see where to enter a turn & where the apex is
 
Delta795
Here's how to trail brake:
  • Brake in a straight line at maximum force.
  • Slightly before the turn in point begin to ease off the brakes.
  • Begin to turn into the corner.
  • As you increase steering angle, reduce braking pressure.
  • Use appropriate amount of braking to keep a well-balanced car through the corner entry phase.


Hey again! Hitting the Apex is vital in gaining speed & essentially taking time off a lap.
By hitting the apex correctly you will carry more speed out of the corner and using all of the track -

You can turn apex markers on in the game to help see where to enter a turn & where the apex is
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Ok turns out that ‘trail braking’ was EXACTLY what I’ve been doing in years also with controller😅😅😅😅. It’s the way to go. Combine hard brake going straight then release. so it’s just a matter of doing it faster. If it can help anybody the first suggested setting in Fanatec forum for gran Turismo Wheel DD, the official Fanatec setting, in my opinion is really too hard to handle and that makes losing time every turn. Going further in the topic more users suggested to set the wheel in a less hard to handle setting.
 
Matteocarlito
As it seems to me there is absolutely nothing arcade here. If you remove the assistances you enter in a world of simulation. It's not a simulation, maybe, of real driving. It's just a really hard and fun "e-sport"
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It's a good simulation for driving. Any techniques that you learn from the game can be directly applied irl. I've tested this myself. Not every car is accurate but I'd say a good majority are.
 
Hi guys thanks for the help! Here’s my update!
After one month I have considerably improved. I drive with a Fanatec DD steering wheel and VR Psvr2
I am asking around to the best pilots I have met.
Just for information: they all use Joypad, and they are more consistent than me about 2 seconds per lap. At the end of the day I still believe joypad seems a better option for winning.
 
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Matteocarlito
Hi guys thanks for the help! Here’s my update!
After one month I have considerably improved. I drive with a Fanatec DD steering wheel and VR Psvr2
I am asking around to the best pilots I have met.
Just for information: they all use Joypad, and they are more consistent than me about 2 seconds per lap. At the end of the day I still believe joypad seems a better option for winning.
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No. If it was the fastest all the aliens would use it. They all use wheels. Wheel is undoubtedly faster. That doesn't mean someone can't be faster on a pad, but nearly everyone will be faster on a wheel after an adjustment period
 

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