Touring Cars Why is AWD Banned in Most Touring Car Series?

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by Alpha Cipher, Jul 6, 2018.

  1. twitcher

    twitcher

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    I would also think trying to limit AWD performance, be it Tires, brakes, etc, would turn off a manufucturer. Why would a manufacturer invest R&D in small brakes that are a one off for a racing series? And if a manufacturer isn’t going to do it, it would be even harder for a small race shop or aftermarket company to make special “crappy brakes”.

    I think the solution of making 2wd cars faster would be the solution, as then at least there’s some motivation on the R&D side.
     
  2. 05XR8

    05XR8

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    I'm trying to remember Speedvision World Challenge TC. At the time, the Audi S4(the model after the 2.7TT), were battling the TSX(I think RSX were being phased out by RTR). MAZDA6 and 328I. As a side, I believe the balance came as restricting boost. Correct me if I'm wrong. It's nearly 20years ago.

    The TSXs handled really well, but the RSXs were lighter. However, the 2.4 in the TDX had better torque. The BMWs had handling and the benefit of RWD traction at the starts. The S4 would jump the field every time, but weight was a factor as well.

    I think limiting boost, could be the most effective, in balancing such a series that included awd cars.
     
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  3. timetorace

    timetorace

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    GTP the new series replacing prototype in 2020 is awd by hybrid technology.

    Awd should never have been banned. Idea of racing is to win. Awd wins. Manufacturers in this day and age are more than capable of making awd gt3 cars. For the fia to ban awd is the fia defying what racing is for. Awd cant be banned just because other manufacturers cant make awd cars, the fia cant protect manufacturers who dont have awd. Instead they should make better cars. Most gt3 road going cars are awd anyway. Gt3 is suppose to be based on road going cars. Acura America 2018 nsx is awd on road and its a great car but in gt3 its mr and they dont like it as it slows it down.

    Fia need to wake up, remove themselfs from historic rules otherwise manufacturers who want awd will walk away and then gt3 will be gone.

    Jaguar, Audi, Nissan, Porsche, Toyota, Acura USA, Honda, Bentley all gt3 cars with awd road going vehicles. If mclaren and bmw cant make awd its hard luck, they can go. Make way for Subaru who are the awd masters. Mclaren and bmw and aston martin are going gtp in 2020, awd should enter 2020s gt3 with manufacturers who specialise in awd and the rest can just stick it. For those who want mr or fr they can go gt4 or join local gt3 like gt3 uk and america etc.

    I now refuse to pay to go to watch gt3 as am fed up of boring fr and mr. Go to nurburgring n24, go to a group of people and they say the same, gt3 needs to be awd. Gt3 cars were been out paced by subarus n24 2018 wrx sti and audis tt sp3t class cars with barely 500bhp. Lexus were left for dead in their fr car.

    This is 2019ac not 2019bc. The fia old ways are boring and they need to act much faster to restore motorsport. I have saved alot of money not going to gt3 events, money motorsports needs.

    Awd in gt3 would be faster, safer, the need for traction and stability control will be gone, the average pace will be greater, rain, snow, ice? No problem for awd gt3 :) the need for stupid aerodynamics would be gone. In japan subaru, nissan, toyata already have awd in touring cars, n24 and nissan have a two ton awd electric car thay would out pace gt3.

    My opinion is shared by other motorsport fans who spectate. Oh look a crash, a spin, all could have been avoided by awd and saved a team millions in a new cars.

    Rant over nearly, fia, move on, old rulership is lame, its not worth hanging on. To many gt3 manufacturers have awd, the fia cant keep holding them back. Making a awd car into fr or mr for gt3 costs money that could be better spent :)

    2019 am supporting Subaru in the sp3t class, 500 bhp, wrx sti, they finish upto position 19, they beat gt3. Proof awd is safer and reliable :)
     
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  4. mustafur

    mustafur

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    For series that have FF and RWD I don't agree with AWD it will ruin the battle, as in wet it's an easy win.
     
  5. TheElbows

    TheElbows

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    As a counter-point to much of what was said a few posts up...race and series organizers are struggling (even with our currently wonderful international racing scene) to keep manufacturers interested, and keeping budgets reasonable to allow teams to participate. We're not in the heady days of the 80's where manufacturers are backed by alcohol and tobacco money and willing to throw large budgets at national and semi-international racing series.

    AWD is difficult to adjust in with other platforms. If they get it wrong and AWD dominates, manufacturers who aren't interested in racing AWD will bail...and the series suffers, possibly folds. It's fun to watch AWD partake in smaller, cheaper series - but as the series go up the ladder, money and manufacturers matter too much.

    With the popularity of GT3 and similar international customer-based programmes, no one is going to risk building an AWD custome race car if there isn't a massive international market for it. Likewise series which don't use the increasingly popular international customer-based cars are shrinking. This means you're less likely to see some tuning shop building a cool AWD car to partake in a loose-rules amateur racing series. For better or for worse, TCR, GT4, GT3 etc. are hugely successful and more importantly they're safe investments at the moment.

    I think anyone spouting "let them go nuts and do whatever they want to win!" is completely missing the point. No manufacturers or teams outside of F1 are throwing that kind of budget/money behind motor racing right now.

    Now, counter to everything I just said...I always enjoyed watching the AWD cars in the earlier days of Continental Sports Car Challenge, back to when Champion used to run their RS6 in the old Speedvision livery etc. But...those were smaller teams, smaller budgets, and were legal because the series was desperate to get ANY interest from racing teams that they could manage. Most of those series have moved on to the more logical and financially safe customer-car international specs. I don't blame any organization or ruling body for not wanting to mess with AWD.
     
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  6. 05XR8

    05XR8

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    I remember going to a Lime Rock wet race and the RS6s were flying off track, while the rwd cars like the 911 and M3 GTR, were superglued to the surface. ;)

    Your point about smaller series. Definitely works in something like the Production Car series here. Evos used to dominate. Now, M3/M4 and 1M/130M, have the power and top speed(plus handling) to overcome the awd deficit.

    Bathurst 12H is a prime example of how awd, rwd and fwd can balance out.
     
  7. timetorace

    timetorace

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    Good replys. If i was a manufacturer and my road going vehicle was awd like many gt3 cars and the fia said no its to be fr or mr i would tell them to stick it and i wouldnt waste my time changing the drivetrain.

    Gt3 is good, but the dominancy of other cars is getting a problem and the fia do nothing about it. Nissan gtr is a beast but on the straights its to fast. Its the same as awd. Why would the fia force manufacturers to have to spend months making a new drive train that costs them even more. If awd was allowed years ago Jaguar wouldnt have had to pull out of gt3. Instead Jaguar relies on Emil Frey for GT3.

    Ford have the right idea, make a racing car then make one road going version make people eager to buy one, make a few then repeat. I love seeing ford mustangs at bathurst gt3. Without Ford, Chevrolet, Nissan, Subaru, AMG, Ferrari and Toyota motorsport wouldnt be here today. Nissan power lmp2. Its about time these main stream manufacturers were allowed awd as they, like many already have them but held back. Its about time manufacturers had a say what they want. Lamborghini, Nissan, Audi, Porsche, Toyota, Ford, AMG and Jaguar all have awd road goint gt3 cars. They should be allowed to do it. Awd was banned 20 years ago by jellously and moaners, 20 years later awd is tamed and changed. Eg Subaru WRX STI SP3T N24. 500 bhp, awd, two tons of intelligence and a manufacturer who understand awd is the future. They beat GT3 overall pace wise, in fact n24 last year i seen three gt3 cars spin out ane crash sending body panels all over spectators. Subaru came flying around and had no grip issues and cruised past with not one accidient then more gt3 cars came around and spin at exactly the same point taking out gt4 and prototype cars. They finished 19th out of the whole field of cars, they won gt3 class and were eight laps ahead of their fr and mr rivals who crashed, spun and couldnt find grip. The fia banning awd is defying motorsports basic existatance of consistancey and winning. Eg fia own gt sport. Means poor kaz is banned from putting his gr3 awd advan cusco wrx in gr3! All because the fia wanted long term gt games. They have ruined the game for good. Cusco wrx was gr3 in japan but the deluded fia wont let him put it in gr3 so i quit. I dispise the fia and they are stuck in a 20 year ground hog day. The fia are why motorsport is suffering due to their pathetic jellousy 20 years ago.

    I use to go to the BTCC to support Subaru. They were fantastic with the awd car. They set standards then rivals moaned and the ones who should make better cars got their patheric own way and subaru were banned from awd. If i was subaru i would have pulled out and sued the fia for discrimination. Most awd racing driver 20 years ago were i got awd i will win and they over done it. Most people over do it when in awd. Put a rally driver in a gt3 awd car and they will wipe the floor with the rest :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2019
  8. daan

    daan Moderator

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    The BTCC Levorg was never 4wd. The BTCC is not ran by the FIA.

    But why let facts get in the way of a badly written rant?

     
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  9. timetorace

    timetorace

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    Last btcc i seen was a smaller wheel based awd wrx against ff and fr at oulton park. Subaru had the league.

    This is how i humar categorize drivetrains.

    FR MR RR = Donuts

    AWD = Perfection

    FF = Good and great fun but chances of not only seeing a wall but ending up in one lol
     
  10. daan

    daan Moderator

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    Subaru have never been in the BTCC before they entered with the Levorg in 2016.

     
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  11. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    No, it doesn't.
    Kaz can do what he likes, it's his game. Also "Gr.3" is a fictional racing class found in GT Sport, so if he wanted a "gr3 awd advan cusco wrx" (whatever that is) in GT Sport, he could.
    Again, "Gr.3" is a fictional racing class found in GT Sport, so that's unlikely.

    Do you mean that the "Cusco wrx" was a GT3 race car in Japan? In which series was this? Again, it seems unlikely because Subaru has never homologated a GT3 race car of any kind.

    Are you perhaps referring to the GT300 Subaru Impreza WRX, run by Cusco Racing in Super GT? Aside from 2008, when it was indeed all-wheel drive, the car was rear-wheel drive, like almost all GT300 cars. Cusco Racing didn't compete in 2009, but R&D Sport entered an AWD Subaru Legacy... then converted it to rear-wheel drive for 2010.

    Subaru didn't race in BTCC until 2016, with the rear-wheel drive Levorg. It won two of the nine races it's entered at Oulton Park, with one each from three in 2016 and 2017, despite running three car teams. Ashley Sutton did with the driver's title in the Levorg in 2017 (and one race at Oulton Park), but the team came 3rd, and 2nd in the manufacturer championship behind BMW.

    The last all- or four-wheel drive car in BTCC was an Audi, in 1996 (before it too was abandoned). It didn't win either race at Oulton Park that year, although eventual champion Frank Biela did place it second in both races and John Bintcliffe put it third in both races..
     
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  12. timetorace

    timetorace

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    When i seen you replied i thought my last comment was moderated lol

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motorsport/2016-btcc-season-preview-subaru-returns-racing

    It looks like a wrx from the front hahahaha

    If kaz can put awd into gr3 why doesnt he put the subaru wrx sti isle of man time attack car into gr3? With some changes i got it around mount panorama and n24 slightly faster than fr and other tracks it was slower. Maybe it would be good been in gr3 as its only had one online race and it has no gt league races :( adding the wrx sti time attack car into gr3 for daily races or gt league would let people race and enjoy the car :) i would myself re join and race it. I got bored of just fr and mr. I like to use awd too and a wider selection of cars to use. Then the older cusco wrx from yes gt300 could be replaced by the time attack car instead? I usually class gt300 as gt3 anyway sorry.

    Is oulton park been featured on gt sport too or do they have the same licensing rights to add it as circuit de spa? I use to race oulton park on gt6 track editor lol. also my old email i had for my psn account was deleted and i dont remember my password for my old account. Its about two years old and with psn name change should i count that account deleted as without valid email account resetting the password is impossable?
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
  13. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    It's the Levorg, which is rear-wheel drive in BTCC - Team BMR asked for a rule change that allowed to to enter an AWD car converted to two-wheel drive. BTCC allowed an exemption, with cars with transverse engines allowed to be front-wheel drive and cars with longitudinal engines to be rear-wheel drive.
    That question makes no sense. The car is in the category he wanted to put it in.
    Again, it was AWD for one season. And GT300 isn't GT3.

    You need to understand that race categories have different requirements governing all aspects of their construction - chassis, engine, aero, suspension, drivetrain - and not just how it is on a stopwatch. A car might be GT3 quick, but if it doesn't meet GT3 specifications it can't be homologated as a GT3 car.

    Oulton Park has never been in a GT game. I don't know what the licensing situation with the track is.
     
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  14. timetorace

    timetorace

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    Thank you for explaining the differences.

    So i guess the wrx sti isle of man time attack car will never be put in gr3? Even for just gt league to add some fun to racing? Having a change is good, be good to see how it would manage in a endurance race with fuel and tyre wear against the cars matched with gr3 requirements?
     
  15. TheCracker

    TheCracker Premium

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    If PD can afford to licence Brands Hatch, they can afford Oulton Park, as they’re both owned by the same group. Question is, would it work as a virtual track as well as other circuits? Oulton is very narrow so for any car with plenty of grip, overtaking is tough. It works IRL because you have loads of gradients, bumps and camber - but that doesn’t necessarily translate to the virtual world, no matter how accurate and sophisticated your render is. It was a great circuit to driver in the old TOCA games, but perhaps wasn’t the best interpretation of it.
     
  16. TenEightyOne

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    It worked very well in Project Cars, it's a great track. Do PD need it as well as Brands though?
     
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  17. TheCracker

    TheCracker Premium

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    I didn’t play P Cars all that much, though I do recall Oulton was pretty accurate. But I probably only raced in the Ginetta Juniors and other lower powered slower cars, so I’m still unsure of how it would feel in something quicker, like a majority of GT Sports race car line-up is.
     
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  18. MatskiMonk

    MatskiMonk Premium

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    The Nordschleife and Bathurst show that narrow, bumpy tracks have a place in the game. I'd take Oulton 100 times out of 100 over the addition of a wide-open flat snooze fest like Silverstone.
     
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  19. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    It's a great circuit in both Project Cars titles.

    It's great right the way up to GT3 and Formula 3 spec cars in PC, just as it is in reality.
     
  20. timetorace

    timetorace

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    The reason i like Oulton Park is because its hill and blind corner and tight design. Its a real track. I would class it in the line of Zolder, difficult, fantastic to race on, and great test of skill and sportsmanship. The UK has tracks that are overrated. Brands Hatch is lame and Silverstone is boring. Oulton Park, Cadwell Park, Donnington and Snetterton all have about three variants. In GT Sport they would increase track roaster alot and also they are all the best UK tracks. Tracks like Spa are also overrated, it then means them tracks charge more to have it in games. Its time the fia jumped in and stopped the monopoly style licensing rights. Also the fia have a motto of "Safety In Road Action" They banned AWD and its the safest drivetrain in the world as proven by subaru at n24, every year. For people who regulate motorsport to ban the safest drivetrain is not only concerning for they way their heads function (politest way to describe them without swearing or direct offense) or if you take a look at what snetterton 200 looks like in project cars in the menu selection or brids eye view is what the fia are for banning awd but also shows they still dont understand that if they didnt ban it every racing car today would be awd. So back 20 years ago when they all smoked cigs and went out on the booze and made the ban, maybe now they actually see they were wrong? This is a forum and keeping a forum going is good so replys always good :) if gt3 changed then most gt3 cars would be awd as their road going counterparts are awd and awd is also the drivetrain for the 2020 gtp (gt1) return so it should be allowed as its clear all manufacturers going into gtp (gt1) already have awd ready lol
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
  21. timetorace

    timetorace

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    I like project cars games as they filled the void in sim racing games when the ps4 first came out and so to did dirt4. I spent years playing project cars and uk tracks were my prefered option except brands hatch and silverstone. I was bored before their first corner then found out taking gt3 around cadwell park without driving aids in the hilly tight section was great fun and highly addictive lol then they got pc2 and rally cross which eat cadwell park alive ;)

    You do know project cars three is already made on paper but it may not end up on ps4 or xbox. It will be a Mad Box exclusive like gt is to ps4. I already got my funds saving up for mad box. Few years off yet though but all current tracks in pc and pc2 will be in project cars three and more ;) and as its british studio all uk tracks are standard and cars like the great ginetta gt5 gt4 and gt3 and lmp cars too. I use to love the ginettas. Be good to see how far Ginetta come over the next few years. Got good hopes for them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
  22. daan

    daan Moderator

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    @timetorace Please stop multi posting. Use the +quote feature if you want to quote more than one person.
     
  23. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Tracks in the UK are generally of two types. Park circuits, that are derived from the former park gardens of stately homes, and airfield cuircuits, that are derived from the perimeter roads of old RAF airfields left over from WW2.

    The all offer different challenges, and are all recreated to different degree in various titles, and I would personally disagree that Brands is boring (having driven it), GTS has a nasty habit of neutering tracks making at Brands both Paddock hill and Sheene curves far easier to drive than they are in reality (or for that matter AC and PC2) however the factor that you claim makes track interesting would die at more track if you got your way later on in your post.



    The FIA don't own the tracks so would have zero say in that.


    Motorsport safety is far, far from this simple and to be blunt you are quite wrong to suggest that any drivetrain is 'safer'.

    AWD is arguably not the safest drivetrain at all, as it increases cornering speed, and that means that when an accident (and one will happen) the accident will happen with more force and travel further, its basic physics - force = mass x acceleration.

    Anything that increases a cars speed, particularly in the corners makes accidents worse, well unless you then change the track layout. Look at every time that motorsport technology has increased speeds, particularly in corners, MR layout in F1, people died; Aero, people died, AWD in the WRC, people died.

    The only safe form of motorsport is the one we engage in (the virtual one), after that is the lightest, slowest cars that are 'safest' and even that is still relative to the track itself.

    So as you get to quicker cars, to keep them safe you have to change the track, which is why F1 tracks are considered by many to be boring, as they need to be FIA catagory 1 circuits for them to race at, its exactly the same with LMP spec cars, they need FIA grade 1 circuits to race. FIA grade 1 circuits have limits on the elevation changes, run-off areas (size and make-up of them), barrier constructions, how close the viewing areas are, where the viewing areas are.

    So your demand for AWD would increase cornering speeds for GT3 and Touring cars to such as degree that they would potentially no longer be able to race at a lot of older circuits, unless those circuits carried out fundamental changes to the layout and nature of the circuit. Just take a look at whats happened over the years to Silverstone for an example of this, as in the past it had a good deal of elevation change for an airfield circuit. Even old park circuits such as Hockenheim and Spa have not been immune to these factors.

    To put this into context the UK has one Grade 1 circuit, and for that circuit its a single layout (Silverstone GP); moving to Grade 2 and 3 and it increases to 11 circuits and 16 layouts. That would seriously limit the UK's potential access to FIA events if AWD were to be adopted in the manner you suggest, with one layout of one circuit being the only track for even more race series.

    That's all an utter aside from the fact that a lot of the appeal of different car layouts is that they don't all drive in the same way and present different challenges to the drivers, which makes the racing more interesting for the drivers, spectators and more of an engineering challenge for the teams.

    I also strongly recommend that you read "Life on the Limit" and "Beyond the Limit" to actually understand what safety in Motorsport actually involves.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
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  24. MatskiMonk

    MatskiMonk Premium

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    I noticed at Brands last week, that a large portion of the GP loop now features new, more prominent catch fencing, and there's no spectating on Stirlings now - which is/was one of my favourite spots in British motorsport. I don't know what the catalyst for this was, but honestly it detracts quite a bit from the experience of visiting the circuit. At the outside of Druids, media were also being moved from the gap between the tyre wall/armco and the secondary barrier. Both amateur and professional photographers alike are being limited at Brands it seems.
     
  25. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Most likely down to the annual and ever changing FIA grading system for tracks.

    Its one of the reasons why I love Castle Combe, it may only be a grade 3 track, but that does allow for a totally open paddock and a circuit which you can walk and spectate from any point on the perimeter.
     
  26. timetorace

    timetorace

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    Its all good to read to and understand but look at Nurburgring N24. Subaru WRX STI in sp3t class, 500bhp, two tons, awd and it out paces most gt3 cars. This is 2019 where the twenty year past ruling was the past, times have changed, fwd and rwd have improved alot, awd is alot better, technology has increased in all racing cars. If Subaru were allowed into GT3 with a awd wrx sti they would be set new standards or the fia could allow subaru and audi to enter their sp3t cars into gt3 to see how they do. Gt3 cars weigh about 1,300kg, so using two tons in a awd would set good competitive standards with less power where pace is their success?

    If they let gt4 and gt3 together in some series they could let sp3t n24 class enter and see how they do against the other cars. I plaued gt sport and i loved the wrx gr4 in awd, i qualified at the rear but my pace ended up putting me in the top five, i didnt win so i wouldnt say awd is cheating. When i raced gr3 wrx in rwd i failed, i crashed, spun, came off track, quit the races, i am use to one set drivetrain and people who are use to one set drivetrain are the ones who understand how to race awd cars and they should be the ones racing them. Twenty years ago drivers thought awd could be pushed and they crashed, it should have been sorted out back then. Bathrust 12 hr have fwd rwd ans awd together and they rival great, without problems. It just seems the part of the world as in america and the eu are the problem ones as manufacturers who rule by rwd or fwd hold dominancy in their drivetrains. The fia allow this and its wrong. Japan and australia can do it, nissan just made a awd touring car in electric and subaru make awd touring cars, toyota can do it and them mount panorama allow awd in and it works. One day manufacturers who want awd will be fed up of amg, mclaren, bmw and ford etc and they will just walk away when they see rwd from amg etc improve and then their cars cant keep up, problem will just repeat itself. Manufacturers who moan about awd should make better cars themselfs. I would never drive fwd mr or rwd on a road and the same in racing games, gt sport is a game, they can put awd in gr3 and i hope they do then i will return. The fia dont belong in racing games, they belong on a track or office dealing only with real racing. They have ruined gt sport and i hope polyphony digital make a new gt game the way they were to win back their customers. Spectator waited hours at rally mexico for a stage where no team would go out first, the fia dont really attend wrc events, they rang up and demanded someone go out first, no one did and they ignored the fia rightfully so. The lack of fia attending wrc events meant i lost money by loosing out on a whole day or stages as they delay caused transport to be canceled or missed or overloaded where spectators were just walking away going to the next stages in the line up.

    The FIA should ban all drivetrains except awd from the wrc and all rally championships then manufacturers who dont like the ban can feel the anger felt by manufacturers by awd been banned from touring cars and they can enter the world of donuts (rwd mr) and enjoy racing death traps. Then polyphony digital can refund me for my tgt and i will carry in playing pc games with a new wheel brand and walk away from gran turismo like many other have and wouldnt careless if they banned me from gt games. People prefer rwd, thats great they can race and handle them. I prefer awd and can handle awd and am penalised by the fia rules and regulations. Ban all drivetrains bar awd from the wrc and bring back Subaru, Toyota and Mitshubish to the World Rally Championship the way it use to be to compete against hyundai (the worlds fastest growing manufacturer) with a great future ahead of them and get nissan in wrc with a gtr ;) that would be a beast of a rally car but subaru would blitz it :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2019
  27. MatskiMonk

    MatskiMonk Premium

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    2015 SP3T STi WRX fastest lap: 9:09:881
    2016 SP3T STi WRX fastest lap: 9:11.340
    2017 SP3T STi WRX fastest lap: 9:12.265
    2018 SP3T STi WRX fastest lap: 9:10.316

    and...

    2015 SP9 Audi R8 LMS fastest lap: 8:19.684
    2016 SP9 Mercedes AMG GT GT3 fastest lap: 8:19.002
    2017 SP9 Audi R8 LMS fastest lap: 8:22.120
    2018 SP9 Manthey Porsche fastest lap: 8:17.340

    So, it doesn't outpace most GT3 cars, it's well off the pace.

    also

    Source? ... and also ...

    A collision involving a two tonne car is more dangerous than a collision involving a 1300kg car - if safety is your argument, it's a fail.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
  28. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    Polyphony Digital doesn't make or sell the Thrustmaster T-GT, so it's incredibly unlikely you bought it from PD in order for it to be compelled under consumer regulations to give you your money back.

    Aside from which, you already claimed you'd got it refunded - or rather your kids did.

    Aside from aside from which, this thread is not a Gran Turismo thread.

    The FIA's involvement in GT Sport is one of certification, not oversight. It hasn't "ruined" anything, and Polyphony Digital has made GT Sport the way it wants to make it.

    Still not a Gran Turismo thread.

    I'm not sure who told you any of these things (probably the same guy who told you about Subaru's dominant, but non-existent performance at Oulton Park in BTCC years ago), but the 600hp Subaru WRX STI NBR Challenge weighs in at around 1.4 tons - it's based on a 1,516kg road car, and few people make race cars by adding 1,000lb to them - and while winning SP3T in both 2015 and 2016 came in at 13 laps behind the overall winners in SP9 GT3...

    ... despite 2015 being dominated by the rainy conditions that you'd think would give 4WD/AWD an advantage.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
  29. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
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    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Now aside from that being full of nonsense, what on earth does it have to do with your claimed saftery factor?



    So we start to get to the crux of the issue, you can't manage a RWD car as well as you can a AWD car so you don't want them in GTS.


    You do know that of the four manufacturers you have listed, three of them make AWD cars.

    Given that the FIA involvement in GTS is no more than it is in F1 or WRC games, you are clearly taking nonsense, and its PD running it still. Which is why you have AWD cars in Gr4.


    So much wrong and inaccurate with this is almost laughable. YOu do realise that it was the local organisers ignoring the FIA regs that resulted in the delay, not the FIA!

    Well clearly not given the above nonsense.


    "Racing death traps"!

    You clearly didn't understand a word of the post you quoted did you.



    Off you go, but this isn't a GTS thread so its really a bit pointless.

    What a shame

    The top three classes in the WRC (WRC, WRC2 Pro and WRC2) all have mandatory AWD, so stop making nonsense up.

    Subaru, Toyota and Mistubushi didn't leave the WRC because of some issue with drivetrains, they left because they couldn't justify the costs involved anymore. Costs that were escalating in part because of the AWD technological arms race.

    The GTR would be a ***** WRC car, its too big and too heavy, and absolutly nothing is stopping Nissan or Subaru coming back into the WRC, certainly not drivetrains.

    I'm going to be blunt, but you seem to be very young and quite frankly have a very limited knowledge on the subject of Motorsport across a wide range of catagories.
     
    FoRiZon likes this.
  30. MatskiMonk

    MatskiMonk Premium

    Messages:
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    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I'd be blunter... if it lols like a troll, spells like a troll, and double posts like a troll...
     
    FoRiZon and Scaff like this.