Why is the new civic a failure?

[deadcell96]

I read reviews on the new 2012 civic and everyone is saying it sucks. Every generation before it was good, what makes this one bad? For anyone outside the US, this is the car in question:

 

[Perfect Balance]

Because it used to be this:

And became this:

[/thread]

 

[Tornado]

I read reviews on the new 2012 civic and everyone is saying it sucks. Every generation before it was good, what makes this one bad? For anyone outside the US, this is the car in question:

In addition to what Perfect Balance said, the entire rest of the market has gone leaps in bounds since 2005 when the last Civic debuted. To compete with the new competition, Honda tweaked some of the engine choices (which arguably makes the car worse, especially the Si) and melted the bodywork a little bit and acted as if it was completely new.

They basically pulled the equivalent of what GM did when the Cobalt came out (benchmark the previous generations of all of the competition and make it as good as them rather than better), and no one was impressed when GM did it either.

 

[disinfected]

Still looks better than what VW did with the American Jetta.

 

[JCE]

They touched on my opinions already. I believe Honda is a victim of itself sometimes. They rely too much on repeat business of people that just buy because of the name, because they had a previous generation and because it is "good enough". This is the Mercury/Lincoln syndrome in my opinion.

FYI, my favorite Si gen:

Took me several hundred pictures to locate one that wasn't riced out to hell.

 

[motortrend]

They touched on my opinions already. I believe Honda is a victim of itself sometimes. They rely too much on repeat business of people that just buy because of the name, because they had a previous generation and because it is "good enough". This is the Mercury/Lincoln syndrome in my opinion.

FYI, my favorite Si gen:

Took me several hundred pictures to locate one that wasn't riced out to hell.

I really like that model civic too, and I just looked for them on the local classifieds. They are pretty dang expensive, looks like people really like them. The cheapest one was 12k and had 53k miles. I think I'd rather have an E36 M for that money and have some left over just in case something breaks which is more likely since it's an older car

 

[homeforsummer]

Yup, Honda for the most part seems to have lost its spark, and whilst event the domestic brands are punching ahead in that class and developing interesting and competitive cars (albeit ones that have been developed in Europe for the most part) companies like Honda and Toyota seem happy trading on their reputation of reliability and nothing else.

Not keen on that gen of Civic posted above though. Always found the shape incredibly dull.

 

[Eric.]

Interesting thing about the EP3, on saturday I ran an autox at St. Louis where Greg Havener caught a ride with me. He runs a CRX Si and has been to Nationals. He mentioned that he owned an EP3 once. Glad he did, but never again. Anything you did to the suspension made them slower. Realtime Racing ran one and had to use like 3000lb/in springs in the rear, and stiff springs up front with about 4 degrees of camber to get it to handle.

 

[-Fred-]

Anything you did to the suspension made them slower. Realtime Racing ran one and had to use like 3000lb/in springs in the rear, and stiff springs up front with about 4 degrees of camber to get it to handle.

Same thing, to an extent, with the RSX. Most of the major Honda-centric companies in Japan (Spoon, Mugen, J's Racing, Seeker) pretty much gave up on those, up until the Civic Type-R came up.

Pretty much any Civic made after 2000 in North America has been utter rubbish. 8th gen Si included, sorry Eric. Utterly stupid dashboard, ridiculous design, it's heavy, it's huge... Only thing going for it was the K20, and even that is now gone. My wife bought a 2009 sedan to replace her old Accord, and it's one of the most unpleasant and boring thing I've ever driven.

See? Huge.

They rely too much on repeat business of people that just buy because of the name, because they had a previous generation and because it is "good enough".

They took a page straight out of Germany, BMW most particularly.

 

[Sniffs]

throw in the fact that the Civic is dead outside the US, or so I heard, and they don't feel like trying anymore. they're probably focusing more on the Fit/Jazz.

 

[Mike0105]

throw in the fact that the Civic is dead outside the US, or so I heard, and they don't feel like trying anymore. they're probably focusing more on the Fit/Jazz.

Civic is still going strong in the UK. Seen lots of new ones recently.

New one is due here next year. Still has a Torsion Beam though....

 

[Crispy]

They took a page straight out of Germany, BMW most particularly.

I think BMW lost it's spark after the E46. Although the E92 and 1 Series are fairly nice.

On topic. I think what Honda has tried to do is cater to the daily commuter car, instead of a fun little coupe or hatchback. By all means, it's great to be catering to the people who want a cheap daily commuter, but don't focus on it, because if theres anything worse, it's ruining a cars previous image by making it boring.

 

[homeforsummer]

I think BMW lost it's spark after the E46.

The only people who say that are people who've not driven the newer BMWs. They still win magazine tests left, right and centre.

Whereas over here at least, Hondas rarely won group tests, only now they don't really appeal to enthusiasts either...

 

[JCE]

On topic. I think what Honda has tried to do is cater to the daily commuter car, instead of a fun little coupe or hatchback. By all means, it's great to be catering to the people who want a cheap daily commuter, but don't focus on it, because if theres anything worse, it's ruining a cars previous image by making it boring.

I agree completely! *see Toyota

 

[-Fred-]

The only people who say that are people who've not driven the newer BMWs. They still win magazine tests left, right and centre.

Whereas over here at least, Hondas rarely won group tests, only now they don't really appeal to enthusiasts either...

Magazines, in North America at least, are usually biased towards the manufacturers who'll dish out the most money, ie BMW, Porsche, and General Motors (Motor Trend in particular shares the bed with GM) That doesn't mean however their opinions are garbage, it means not to take what you read for gospel, and take everything with a grain of salt.

 

[CCXRacer]

Well at least BMW has a few good sports cars, something honda can't say these days.

 

[Moot]

The only way they can help rescue themselves is by making a savagely powerful engine for it's class. There needs to be a 300bhp Civic.

 

[Crispy]

The only people who say that are people who've not driven the newer BMWs. They still win magazine tests left, right and centre.

Whereas over here at least, Hondas rarely won group tests, only now they don't really appeal to enthusiasts either...

I'm talking design wise, to drive, I'm sure a lot of them are way better than the E46.

But a lot of magazines are very biased as someone else has said. I know Car n' Driver loves BMW, and Motortrend with GM.

I really, really love BMW, but I think a lot of their recent ideas have been lacking something that I can't really explain. Although I'm one of the few who actually likes the 1-Series so I don't know!

 

[deadcell96]

throw in the fact that the Civic is dead outside the US, or so I heard, and they don't feel like trying anymore. they're probably focusing more on the Fit/Jazz.

It's only dead in Japan. Everywhere else, it's still going strong.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

The only way they can help rescue themselves is by making a savagely powerful engine for it's class. There needs to be a 300bhp Civic.

That is not, and has never been the Honda way. See NSX for a perfect example. No, what they really need to do is produce another properly-focused drivers car. Whether it be a small hatchback or a mid-engined supercar. The biggest thing about a fast Honda, is that it has to have a screaming normally aspirated vtec engine. Yes people do turbo Hondas all the time (the guy that bought my civic put a turbo on it and blew it 2 weeks later) but Honda (at their best mind you) doesn't do turbo Hondas. There is just something about the bark of a tuned-to-within-an-inch-of-it's-life normally aspirated motor that speaks to the driver. The hair-trigger throttle response. This is what Honda should be working on.

IIRC the K20 series does something like 125% volumetric efficiency, effectively making it supercharged, without the supercharger!

 

[Pupik]

It's only been out 6-8 weeks, and it's a FAIL-Your. Rah-rah-rah for extremist car thoughts!

It just hasn't really changed much in the past 10 years, nor broken any new ground. Not that the Corolla or Sentra is spearheading the challenge.

 

[Carlos]

Honda went wrong when they made 800 different bodystyles under the same name. The EK9 was the best Civic ever, it's quite an icon too. The latest Type-R we've got is this one:

We've never got the sedan Type R, wish we had, only the hybrid, and that's the latest Civic we have.. We don't have all those models America has, luckily, ugly!

 

[niky]

I wouldn't call it fail yet.

The Civic's life-cycle is pretty predictable. Ground-breaking car... six years later, tiny misstep. Better car... misstep... Better car... misstep.

The EPs were crud compared to the EK. Faster on the road, but the potential was blunted by a poor suspension. The FD that followed was terrific in comparison... not great in standard form (rear end tuning sucks as stock), but with lots of potential.

This new car is bad in comparison to what else you're now getting... because everyone has upped their game, while the Civic hasn't done that much... but how much do you need to do with a basically good car?

Too bad about the legendary K20... but in real world terms, the K24 is probably better suited to performance... more torque, more potential. Honda is a stubborn company, and I don't expect them to be following the downsized turbo craze anytime soon if they can meet their performance and economy targets with naturally aspirated mills.

-

Despite all the bad press, there are some encouraging words coming out about the Civic. For one, they apparently fixed the atrocious lumbar support (more like iron-bar in the FD), they've given it a longer stroke suspension, and they've given it more space. That it doesn't have the same high quality plastics and quick ratio rack as the FD is disappointing, but I'll reserve judgement until I drive it.

 

[JCE]

The only way they can help rescue themselves is by making a savagely powerful engine for it's class. There needs to be a 300bhp S2000.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Keef]

As far as small economy cars go, they're all terrible. Guys, don't hate on the Civic. I mean, it could be a Corolla, or an Elantra, or maybe even a Sentra. At least it has a high-performance version.

Despite the high-performance version, it and all the others still suck. The Mazda 3 has been the best since it debuted. The Protege was great too, except that they didn't sell enough to make a big impact.

 

[bass264]

As far as small economy cars go, they're all terrible. Guys, don't hate on the Civic. I mean, it could be a Corolla, or an Elantra, or maybe even a Sentra. At least it has a high-performance version.

Despite the high-performance version, it and all the others still suck. The Mazda 3 has been the best since it debuted.

Terrible? They make millions more in profit for the auto companies , last longer then there "ricer" counterparts, and use less gas. I'd take a Camry or a Corolla over expensive cars any day. My family has always bought Toyota's and none of them have stopped running or have had reliability problems, not even the Corolla's that over 20+ years old. Heck, my dads Corolla 2004 LE is a great car, and it isn't as fast as a Ferrari. If you think auto companies are going to make there cars faster and faster(companies like Toyota) then you don't understand how it would make them lose money and eventually go bankrupt. ( Look what the US government had to do because of GM's stupidity). The New Civic is heading in the right direction for the average consumer, with gas costing nearly $4 a gallon what heck do you expect Honda to do? Make a 500hp Civic that gets less MPG than a Ferrari?

 

[Tornado]

The New Civic is heading in the right direction for the average consumer. With gas costing nearly $4 a gallon what do you expect Honda to do? Make a 500hp Civic that gets less MPG than a Ferrari?

I'd expect them to continue making the Civic in a way that puts it in line with its predecessors. Not to take the Civic and turn it into the type of car that is practically government mandated to only come in beige or tan with a slushbox so as not to upset the sensibilities of the latte drinking crowd.

Though nice try.

 

[bass264]

I'd expect them to continue making the Civic in a way that puts it in line with its predecessors. Not to take the Civic and turn it into the type of car that is practically government mandated to only come in beige or tan with a slushbox so as not to upset the sensibilities of the latte drinking crowd.

Though nice try.

Unfortunately that's what's going to happen, thanks to Obama changing CAFE standards. 👎 Now only companies that only make high performance car makers can make cars that are in line with their predecessors.

 

[JCE]

Unfortunately that's what's going to happen, thanks to Obama changing CAFE standards. 👎

More reason to start buying cars now that you like before all new cars are neutered.

 

[bass264]

More reason to start buying cars now that you like before all new cars are neutered.

Since I'm going to study hard to get a high income job, buying my dream cars won't be a problem.