Why is the TVR Cerbera Speed 12 so terrible?

  • Thread starter Jezston
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Jezston

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So I've been playing a little while now, and recently won the TVR Blackpool Racers and am now the ... well, not-so-proud owner of a TVR Speed 12.

Why not so proud? Because it's awful! Even after installing the supercharger taking the power up to 1000+ bhp and pulling back the transmission, this car is SLOW. Even on a b-level professional race, all my opponents pull away straight away never to be seen again. The Tuscan I won it with absolutely destroys it in every way.

Surely I must be missing something here? Surely a car that powerful with that high a retail tag must have some use?
 
Its really just too powerful for its own good. Its great when you can use all 1000bhp, but on the tighter tracks its a handful.

Its good for Test Course and uhm... Test Course.
 
Jezston
So I've been playing a little while now, and recently won the TVR Blackpool Racers and am now the ... well, not-so-proud owner of a TVR Speed 12.

Why not so proud? Because it's awful! Even after installing the supercharger taking the power up to 1000+ bhp and pulling back the transmission, this car is SLOW. Even on a b-level professional race, all my opponents pull away straight away never to be seen again. The Tuscan I won it with absolutely destroys it in every way.

Surely I must be missing something here? Surely a car that powerful with that high a retail tag must have some use?
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It already has more power than it can handle. 800hp stuffed into a 1,000kg glassfibre frame, coming out of the back wheels is a recipe for pain. With 1000hp you have no chance at all.

That said, a good, clean driver can hustle it to within 5% or so of its class peers (supercars). It's just too much power and too little weight.
 
I've had mine competing against the LMP cars the Ring in the Real Circuit tours. It's an immensely fast car and capable of very quick Ring times stock, you just need to learn how to drive it and how to set it up.
 
Jezston
So I've been playing a little while now, and recently won the TVR Blackpool Racers and am now the ... well, not-so-proud owner of a TVR Speed 12.

Why not so proud? Because it's awful! Even after installing the supercharger taking the power up to 1000+ bhp and pulling back the transmission, this car is SLOW. Even on a b-level professional race, all my opponents pull away straight away never to be seen again. The Tuscan I won it with absolutely destroys it in every way.

Surely I must be missing something here? Surely a car that powerful with that high a retail tag must have some use?
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I can sympathise, Jezston.

I won the Blackpool Racers with a Griffith 500. The only time the Speed 12 would demolish me would be on a long straight where it's acceleration through the gears and top speed were far superior to mine but come the corners, forget it. My Griffith 500 eased past it every time because it had to slow down to a crawl and even then you could see it wanted to oversteer desperately.

The thing is, the legend is far more appealing than the real thing. You test it out on a 0-60 and TVR's "official" figure of 2.9 or whatever is simply a gross exaggeration. It is closer to the 5/6 second bracket.
 
Too much power and too little weight? That's possible? :embarrassed:
I remember getting this in GT2, horrible car to drive... I sold it. But I never knew why.
 
Actually it's not, with poor control it's closer to the 5-6 bracket but you can get the Speed 12 to 60 in 3.5 seconds and 3.5 is what they claim because the car has a diff the same as the GT race cars, ie suited to rolling starts not 0-60 sprints. If they had a different diff then sub 3 seconds would be possible. I actually have the Evo test drive of the car and in thier words it is phenominally quick. It handles like a GT car, poor turing circle, lot's of lateral grip etc so low speed turns are harder than they would be in a Tuscan, griffith etc, like they should be, but the car irl if quicker and more powerful than it is in GT4, it's also lighter than it is in GT4. but even in GT4 the car is stupidly quick if you can drive it well. As I said, with a wing and racing tyre's the car can compete in the Real Circuit Tours.
 
The main thing about the Speed 12 is that TCS is it's best friend. :cool: Other than that, it's really good for melting R5's to butter. :D
 
Dave A
Actually it's not, with poor control it's closer to the 5-6 bracket but you can get the Speed 12 to 60 in 3.5 seconds and 3.5 is what they claim because the car has a diff the same as the GT race cars, ie suited to rolling starts not 0-60 sprints. If they had a different diff then sub 3 seconds would be possible. I actually have the Evo test drive of the car and in thier words it is phenominally quick. It handles like a GT car, poor turing circle, lot's of lateral grip etc so low speed turns are harder than they would be in a Tuscan, griffith etc, like they should be, but the car irl if quicker and more powerful than it is in GT4, it's also lighter than it is in GT4. but even in GT4 the car is stupidly quick if you can drive it well. As I said, with a wing and racing tyre's the car can compete in the Real Circuit Tours.
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That's what I mean. From a 0-60 sprint, it is in the region of 5/6 seconds. I personally don't count rolling starts as a true indicator of 0-60 times because I see it as an advantage i.e. the car does not need the same amount of power to get going. I'm not saying it isn't quick once it gets rolling and onto a straight. It is brilliantly quick through the gears and you get up to 200mph in no time but purely around the track and from a 0-60 standing start, it isn't the fastest car out there.
 
On R-grade rubber, with a wing installed, moderate (not to mention well-placed) ballast, and a properly tuned suspension, this car can be quite a beast. However, it requires a good working knowledge of suspension tuning dynamics, as well as a great deal of throttle control. In addition, along with Famine's comments, the car is at its absolute best without any power added at all. With a curb weight of 1020kg and 799bhp, it's got plenty of potential in its own right. It doesn't need any more power, but it will need a driver with a light foot.
 
I think the Speed 12 is a fun car. Any car that can light up the rear tires in 4th gear @ 140mph straight off the showroom floor with no modifications is great fun IMO. :)
 
Ignignoc N Err
On R-grade rubber, with a wing installed, moderate (not to mention well-placed) ballast, and a properly tuned suspension, this car can be quite a beast. However, it requires a good working knowledge of suspension tuning dynamics, as well as a great deal of throttle control. In addition, along with Famine's comments, the car is at its absolute best without any power added at all. With a curb weight of 1020kg and 799bhp, it's got plenty of potential in its own right. It doesn't need any more power, but it will need a driver with a light foot.
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x2

Its not one of those jump right in and bolt on more power cars. Its a finess car that needs to be properly tuned before taking it into a series.
 
Ryan81
That's what I mean. From a 0-60 sprint, it is in the region of 5/6 seconds. I personally don't count rolling starts as a true indicator of 0-60 times because I see it as an advantage i.e. the car does not need the same amount of power to get going. I'm not saying it isn't quick once it gets rolling and onto a straight. It is brilliantly quick through the gears and you get up to 200mph in no time but purely around the track and from a 0-60 standing start, it isn't the fastest car out there.
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Rolling starts arn't any indication of 0-60 times, I never said they were. What I meant was the car can go from 0-60 in 3.5 seconds IRL and in GT4 I've had it do that sprint in a similar time. But if it had a diff that was designed more for standing start that time could be knocked under 3 seconds. According to TVR's mechanics anyway. As a track car what other real road car is faster on a track than the Speed 12, ZZ-II, perhaps but I'm not sure there was a ever a proper spec working model ever made.
 
PD did a good job on this car since even it's designers' decided that "...it was simply incapable of being used as a road car ended the idea, forcing TVR executives to abandon its development."

TVR Seed 12 at Wikipedia.
 
Skippy
In other words - someone with a DFP. Throttle control on a DS2 is pretty much an oxymoron.
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Actually it is very easy to do throttle control on a DS2. I do it all the time. It is not easy to drive at first but when you do learn how to drive it it becomes a great car.
 
It's kinda like the Speed 12 in GT2. Or the GT90. You have to treat that throttle gently! You can't stomp the gas liberally like you would in many other supercars.
 
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kjb
Actually it is very easy to do throttle control on a DS2. I do it all the time. It is not easy to drive at first but when you do learn how to drive it it becomes a great car.
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I felt sure there would be people who would say you can do it - but are you really going to claim that it is very easy?! Post a video of you changing between 1/4, 2/3, 1/2, 7/8, 1/4, 1/3 (with brake application inbetween each) using a DS2 and I will be impressed - but that will not prove that it is easy. (And I am inclined to say that using the right stick doesn't count because learning to use it is still - not easy.)
 
Learning to use it may well not be easy, but it's worth the hassle, especially for drifting. I feel I've got halfway decent throttle control through the right analog.
 
Skippy
I felt sure there would be people who would say you can do it - but are you really going to claim that it is very easy?!
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Even if you don't have good throttle control with the DS2 (for example, I use the buttons, and sometimes don't want to bother with throttle control), driving cars like the Cerbera Speed 12 is very easy. Just upshift.
 
Dave A
Rolling starts arn't any indication of 0-60 times, I never said they were. What I meant was the car can go from 0-60 in 3.5 seconds IRL and in GT4 I've had it do that sprint in a similar time. But if it had a diff that was designed more for standing start that time could be knocked under 3 seconds. According to TVR's mechanics anyway. As a track car what other real road car is faster on a track than the Speed 12, ZZ-II, perhaps but I'm not sure there was a ever a proper spec working model ever made.
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I haven't tried out the ZZ-II yet, Dave, so I'm not sure but I would of thought that a car like the Mine's Skyline R34 would be faster around the track than the Speed 12. Perhaps even the Opera S2000. I tried the Speed 12 in the tuning car championship and it had great difficulties in keeping up with the Opera S2000.
 
I guess we'll just have to agree to dissagree on the car. My view's maybe a bit biased because I'm a massive TVR fan but besides that I spent a hell of a lot of time in this car. I have little doubt I could win the Tuning car championship relatively easilly in a stock Speed 12 but I can accept that the cars not everyones cup of tea and that the technique to driving it won't be either. How good you are with the 12 is no judge of how good you are at GT4 because it's a car that is so different to drive than pretty much anything else in the game but if you ever do master it, it is, at least in my experience, very satisfying.
 
It's not just the Speed 12, though, Dave. There are a number of cars which will require a total revamp of your driving style to be used successfully, such as the infamous Yellowbird (called "Middlefingerbird" on another site due to its eccentricities), the ProtoMotors Spirra 4.6, and to a slightly lesser extent the Alpine A310 and A110 (to name only a few).

So, it's not just "if you can drive the Speed 12, you've ARRIVED!!1"

It's more like, "If you can adapt your driving style to suit all of these odd-ball-handling cars, then you've arrived!"
 
I don't dissagree, I never said the Speed 12 was the only car that required a different driving style to master. There are others but they don't require the same style as the Speed12. The Speed 12 is pretty unique, that's not to say nothing else is unique too, but we're talking about the Speed 12 here. I also said that how good you are with the Speed 12 is not a good indication of how good you are at GT4, you can be great at the game but rubbish in a few select cars which may include the Speed 12 or not.
 
Skippy
I felt sure there would be people who would say you can do it - but are you really going to claim that it is very easy?! Post a video of you changing between 1/4, 2/3, 1/2, 7/8, 1/4, 1/3 (with brake application inbetween each) using a DS2 and I will be impressed - but that will not prove that it is easy. (And I am inclined to say that using the right stick doesn't count because learning to use it is still - not easy.)
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I put it like this it is easy for me because i have been doing it for awhile. Sorry I don't have any videos. Also I don't use the right stick just the buttons. But anyway I guess the Speed 12 isn't for everybody but that what's good about GT there are enough cars to make everybody happy.
 
Dave A
I guess we'll just have to agree to dissagree on the car. My view's maybe a bit biased because I'm a massive TVR fan but besides that I spent a hell of a lot of time in this car. I have little doubt I could win the Tuning car championship relatively easilly in a stock Speed 12 but I can accept that the cars not everyones cup of tea and that the technique to driving it won't be either. How good you are with the 12 is no judge of how good you are at GT4 because it's a car that is so different to drive than pretty much anything else in the game but if you ever do master it, it is, at least in my experience, very satisfying.
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That's fair enough. I'll have to take your word for it. It could very well be that my driving style is just not suited for the Speed 12. I generally don't think much of the American muscle cars like the Cobra 427 either because they have massive oversteer. That's not to say they aren't very quick but just not my cup of tea.
 
I love this car and all TVRs. BUT I can't drive this car at all and to be honest, I don't think I can be bothered to learn to right now... One day maybe..
 

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