Why not more Oversteer and Wheelspin

  • Thread starter Thread starter jweaver
  • 67 comments
  • 5,779 views
J

jweaver

Messages
100
I have been playing for a few days and something is bothering me..

Why is it possible to be aggresive on the throttle with the powerful RWD cars?

I am currently driving a Dodge Viper and in the middle of the corner you can plant the throttle and little happens to the back end. When it does, the transition to oversteer is quite gradual.. Where as in reality, a touch on the throttle in the bend should be enough to make it swap ends in an instant.

In any car like this, you should not able to 'plant' the throttle as you would simply spin the back wheels, but this doesn't seem to happen.

I am driving with all the aids off and with Traction Control set to 0.. But its just not agressive enough and to me feels like a game.

I was expecting it to be more like "Ferrari 355 Challenge" on the Dreamcast, which for me, was one of the most accurate simulations of Throttle/Overstear/Wheelspin.. There was a unique feel to it, which was just how you would imagine a powerful car to react, if you abused the power.

Consinder that GT is ment to be a 'simulation', I am surprised how 'tame' it feels.

Has anyone else noticed this?

Jon
 
jweaver
I have been playing for a few days and something is bothering me..

Why is it possible to be aggresive on the throttle with the powerful RWD cars?

I am currently driving a Dodge Viper and in the middle of the corner you can plant the throttle and little happens to the back end. When it does, the transition to oversteer is quite gradual.. Where as in reality, a touch on the throttle in the bend should be enough to make it swap ends in an instant.

In any car like this, you should not able to 'plant' the throttle as you would simply spin the back wheels, but this doesn't seem to happen.

I am driving with all the aids off and with Traction Control set to 0.. But its just not agressive enough and to me feels like a game.

I was expecting it to be more like "Ferrari 355 Challenge" on the Dreamcast, which for me, was one of the most accurate simulations of Throttle/Overstear/Wheelspin.. There was a unique feel to it, which was just how you would imagine a powerful car to react, if you abused the power.

Consinder that GT is ment to be a 'simulation', I am surprised how 'tame' it feels.

Has anyone else noticed this?

Jon
Click to expand...

What tyres are you running and what do you have the physics set to. Stickier tyres will make it more difficult to break traction and a world of difference exists between the normal and professional physics models.

It will also depend on what the nature of the corner is and what gear you are in, breaking traction on tyres is a product of torque overcoming the tyres grip, in higher gears the torque multiplying effect of the gears is much lower so you are a lot less likely to do this in comparison to lower gears. So its a lot less likely to happen on the first corner of the High Speed Ring, in comparison to the slow right angle corners of London.


Regards

Scaff
 
not sure what settings you are playing on, but all assists off, professional mode and doing the all American race at hsr in a z06 and planting the gas mid corner has no hope in hell of keeping the car straight.
 
J-PaP
not sure what settings you are playing on, but all assists off, professional mode and doing the all American race at hsr in a z06 and planting the gas mid corner has no hope in hell of keeping the car straight.
Click to expand...

As an example, i am driving the Dodge Viper on the High Speed ring and it just doesn't feel 'ragged' enough.. If you stop and pull away with full gas, it only wheel spins for a second and then grips... .There is no way on earth that a car with this performance would be able to do that, no matter what tyres it has.

And before you ask, I do have track experince.. Not only do I own my own Go-Kart which is capable of over 110MPH (although it doesn't have a diff, so is nothing like a road car to drive).. But I have also driven various cars on full size tracks (The most noticable was an F430 at Thruxton).. And with the Ferrari, the only thing which got you through the corners was the sophisticated traction control system!

Accelerating (or lifting off) in a corner in any car with a reasonable amount of power (especially in a low gear) should send it out of control.. But with the Viper, I have been able to go around a corner, in 2nd gear, full lock, full throttle and easily get around.

The only thing to add is that I am playing in 'Standard' physics.. Perhaps 'pro' is the way to go, but I havn't actually worked out what the differnce is and how 'pro' changes things!

Jon
 
"Why not more Oversteer and Wheelspin?"

Because you've got all the driving assists turned on and you're probably on standard rather than pro physics. I have the Japanese version and I can assure you that the Viper is a real handful with S3 tyres and everything turned off.
 
You'll notice a world of difference between Stadard and pro :)
I sold my F430 after i finished the event, because i can't keep it straight :)
And on my tuned elise i can't drive without traction control, it just spins you off at the first corner.
 
jweaver
The only thing to add is that I am playing in 'Standard' physics.. Perhaps 'pro' is the way to go, but I havn't actually worked out what the differnce is and how 'pro' changes things!

Jon
Click to expand...

The different physics models make a huge amount of difference, enough that the Suzuki Cappo can get a bit of a handful on the High Speed Ring on N spec tyres.

I can also assure you that in the real world tyres can and do make a huge amount of difference, if you are using R spec tyres on the car then you are effectively using racing spec compounds, which are a totally different animal to any form of road or even track spec tyre.

If GT5:P tyres are close in grip levels to the ones in GT4 (in terms of lateral g and 0-100-0 times) then slap a set of N2 or N3 tyres, set the physics to Professional and take the Viper for another spin. Then come back and let us know.

Regards

Scaff
 
jweaver
The only thing to add is that I am playing in 'Standard' physics..
Click to expand...


That's your whole problem...

Like Scaff says, remove driving aids like ASM and TCS use proffesional physics, run tyres that have similar grip levels to the real tyres on a stock Viper (GT5P manual also recommends N2-N3) and see how you go..... I highly doubt you will complain about the lack of wheelspin and oversteer. ;)
 
The OP said that he's driving with all aids off.

As others have said professional physics not being selected could be the setting making the car "tame".
 
Do a lap around Suzuka with everything off in a Viper on N1 tires, post you lap time and then I will tell you whats wrong.
 
jweaver
As an example, i am driving the Dodge Viper on the High Speed ring and it just doesn't feel 'ragged' enough.. If you stop and pull away with full gas, it only wheel spins for a second and then grips... .There is no way on earth that a car with this performance would be able to do that, no matter what tyres it has.

And before you ask, I do have track experince.. Not only do I own my own Go-Kart which is capable of over 110MPH (although it doesn't have a diff, so is nothing like a road car to drive).. But I have also driven various cars on full size tracks (The most noticable was an F430 at Thruxton).. And with the Ferrari, the only thing which got you through the corners was the sophisticated traction control system!

Accelerating (or lifting off) in a corner in any car with a reasonable amount of power (especially in a low gear) should send it out of control.. But with the Viper, I have been able to go around a corner, in 2nd gear, full lock, full throttle and easily get around.

The only thing to add is that I am playing in 'Standard' physics.. Perhaps 'pro' is the way to go, but I havn't actually worked out what the differnce is and how 'pro' changes things!

Jon
Click to expand...

PRO is SIM, Standard is Arcade fun for kids that play Need for Speed a lot, and Bought this game for the first time.
 
Cheers all.. As you say, I have all assists OFF, but havn't dabbled with 'Pro' physics yet..

I will give it a go....

Out of interst, does anyone remember "Ferrari 355 Challange".. That was the first game I ever played with analogue 'triggers' for the throttles and it was amazing.. I don't know about the physics of the handling.. But it was the way that you had to "feather" the throttle and constantly correct oversteer that I loved.

I just hope that the Ferraris (with Pro phyiscs) handle like this.

Whilst it wasn't particularly fun, it was so satisfying being able to "tame the beast"..

Thanks for your advice

Jon
 
Yes its harder now. Its better if you have a wheel, the G25s paddles are nice and stiff so you can put as much gas as possible without over doing it.
Good Luck!
 
jweaver
Cheers all.. As you say, I have all assists OFF, but havn't dabbled with 'Pro' physics yet..
Click to expand...

lol. who didnt see that coming?

Honestly jweaver, why come here complaining about the physics not being realistic when you haven't even tried them out?
 
Well some people may get confused. They should Change the name from Standard to Arcade Physics.
 
He still dodged to tell us which tires he was using, apart the Standard physics thing...

I'm guessing R compound on Standard physics was his combo.
 
I have a problem with wheelspin in GT. I use a wheel and it absolutely gives you no feedback. I used to play PGR2/3/4 a lot and the rumble works very well. In case of wheelspin a pad is better than a wheel.
 
I don't know what you mean but wheelspin doesn't mean rumble in a real car. All you notice is the squealing, the engine revving too hard in comparison to the speed, and the end of the car with the driving wheels trying to escape from under you. If you get rumble in case of wheelspin I'm willing to bet the driving wheels aren't round.
 
I will be happy with the wheel spin and oversteer when I have an experience like the s-licencse in the GT on GT3...It makes you realise that driving fast cars without aids is dang near impossible (until you practice)!
 
I've used a Driving Force GT and a Logitech G25, and you certanly can feel when there is wheelspin. And our pads, at least mine, which is a sixaxes, doens't rumble so no difference to a forcefeedback-less wheel.
 
The biggest wheelspin inaccuracy I have found in GT5 is if you rev a car to max rpm and try to launch it in 2nd gear; even a really powerful car with N1 tires will just bog down and not spin the tires (NO assists, pro physics). Even my dad's 400hp Chevelle can spin em in 2nd gear (even from a roll).
 
I have tried Pro physics, and you are right. This does make things much more like I expected, to almost the point of being uncontrollable.

I did try Pro before, but I had a Skyline (4WD) and didn't really notice the extra Wheelspin/Oversteer.. But since getting a powerful RWD, the idea of checking 'pro' before making this post, slipped my mind.

Its sorted now.. I am going back to Standard though for the time being, as Pro was REALLY tough!

Jon
 
Haha, love the way you where beating on it not being realistic and with proper setup it was too much for you. :)
 
So what is the difference between standard and pro physics? Are standard physics like the ones in GTHD or GT4, or would GT4 physics be somewhere between the two?
 

Latest Posts

Back