Why the Chaparral 2J is a Cheat Car

[Tornado]

its top speed is very limited and handling is horrible

It can match most of the LMP cars stock in top end, and in regards to handling...


Well, it goes like this: If you've practiced with it and know of its idiosyncrasies and the track you are on is smooth, you can easily win against cars with PP ratings dozens of points higher; especially if the track is wet.

If any of those things aren't true, especially the smooth track bit, you will probably lose. Badly.

 

[madeye]

If you want a guaranteed win while away from the PS3 your always gonna pick the 2J. I know i do.

 

[roamer2629]

If you want a guaranteed win while away from the PS3 your always gonna pick the 2J. I know i do.

Agreed. Not my favorite car for a-spec, but it's bob's weapon of choice in that pp bracket.

 

[roflcoptor]

The 2J is a love or hate car. You either adore it and treasure it like myself, or loath it on as many accounts as possible.

I love this car because of its sheer uniqueness and difficaulty to drive. Using this in the Nurb seasonal not only made me learn to drive the car better, but the track better, learning how to overtake offline on Dottinger-Hohe, etc. Especially Flugplatz, offline & overtaking.. the sheer terror of the aerodynamics creating upward lift and making you fly 30 feet, before landing and trying to navigate the corner, is truly terrifying, but one of the most amazing things i've ever seen in the game. I love this car, because of its flaws. I like the fact its unique, it makes you feel different, special, if you like.

If you can tame the beast, its one of the best cars in the game in my opinion. If you can't (or can't be bothered to), you have no idea what you are missing out on 👍

Now a massive U-Turn back OT..

It is not a cheat car.
Sure, it's PP is almost certainly a little off, but if it confines to the rules, whats the big deal?

To use a popular meme...

"I don't usually bother to agree with a post, but when I do, it's this one"

👍

 

[Jsoccer9]

To answer the OP, the 2J is a "cheat car." However not in the way that people might think. The 2J was banned after its maiden season and thus is not allowed to race under FIA rules. This is because the downforce provided by the illegal, movable aerodymanic device (fans) provided more grip than a wing and was found to overall provided too much grip.

There is also not much weight to these old race cars due to the lack of safety required for the drivers. Also the turbos which you can add in the game add a lot of power. Subesquently this car is very quick. If you find it a cheat car dont use it, but if you accept that its revolutionary design can still be used to effectivness today than marvel it for what it is and let the old beast get the racing time it deserves.

 

[Polsixe]

Interesting viewpoints. I find the car handles quite well accelerates,, turns tight hairpins very well, much better than the regular 600-650 cars. When you boost the power then power limit you get a flatline power curve which really helps. Yes, it can't quite keep up with LMP cars, except in the rain while wearing SS, but I digress. Perhaps PD on purpose made it a bracket killer to evoke the CanAm banning years ago.

 

[saabman3]

If you dont believe the chaparral 2J is a cheat car check out the leaderboard on the latesrt (28 aug) online time challenge. People with 2J s are posting 2 minutes around Spa top 100 at least! Im only managing 2.20 with a Maclaren racer mindyou Im not great lol

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

If you dont believe the chaparral 2J is a cheat car check out the leaderboard on the latesrt (28 aug) online time challenge. People with 2J s are posting 2 minutes around Spa top 100 at least! Im only managing 2.20 with a Maclaren racer mindyou Im not great lol

So its a cheat car just because its dominating the leaderboards? I fail to see your logic here. I'm guessing its because perhaps you don't have one. So, what if say your McClaren was dominating a different time trial, would we then consider that a cheat car also?

 

[johof1234]

IIRC it was only allowed to start a race three or so times before it was banned! Given we race concept cars which, even when actually built, are usually dogs to drive, why worry? It was an excellent idea, too good for the FIA to allow to dominate the races it was built to run in.

First off the FIA didn't ban the 2J from anything. It never raced in any FIA governed races. FIA only governed 2 racing series at the time of the 2J and the car wasn't in either of them. The 2J raced in the Can-Am series which is governed by the SCCA. Second, it wasn't banned due to 'domination.' It raced 4 times, and placed 6th in one race. That's it. One 6th place finish. It was banned because the other drivers complained of having rocks thrown at their cars while driving behind the 2J.

 

[nebularis23]

First off the FIA didn't ban the 2J from anything. It never raced in any FIA governed races. FIA only governed 2 racing series at the time of the 2J and the car wasn't in either of them. The 2J raced in the Can-Am series which is governed by the SCCA. Second, it wasn't banned due to 'domination.' It raced 4 times, and placed 6th in one race. That's it. One 6th place finish. It was banned because the other drivers complained of having rocks thrown at their cars while driving behind the 2J.

Interesting stuff. Where did you get your info?

 

[Snorevette]

The 2J isn't a 'cheat' car, it's a top-tier car for it's PP range in the same way that the Suzuki GSX R/4 is a top-tier car for it's weight bracket and the Nissan GTR is a top-tier car for the 1/4 mile.
It's not like the X1 where it is literally unbeatable - I find that it can have some unpredictable handling (albeit very good handling) and while it can be somewhat COMPETITIVE with LMP cars in terms of speed, it is by no means the fastest.

 

[flynch3211]

Are you aware that the Chaparral 2J is a fan car, similar to the X2010 / X2011? That's where all that grip is coming from. The fan will produce downforce on the car, even when it's not moving. This means that you have additional downforce when travelling at high speeds, and you still have sufficient downforce at lower speeds. Remove the fan, and watch the grip of the car plummet.

That says it all , for people who are playing the game normally , this is your benchmark to practice before you have a x 2010 or x2011 in your hands. When we say Fan car, it's not because its popular. Albeit it is popular, the fan here is used in the real definition of the word. there is a damn Snowmobile engline just to power the fan ( hence why the back of the car looks like a washing machine half-out of the box).

But yes, we should be entitles to driver what we please. I I want to do the 1000 km of suzuka in the x2010, well then I'll do it and that's it. end of story.

Admins should lock this thread .

 

[Mpumi]

At the moment it's killing the Spa time trial on the seasonal event. Either you get one and beat the time or wish like me to have one

 

[Jaywalker]

At the moment it's killing the Spa time trial on the seasonal event. Either you get one and beat the time or wish like me to have one

Good luck with beating 2.00.7xx ! I can put one on share for tonight if you like...

 

[seanneedscar]

The 2J isn't a 'cheat' car, it's a top-tier car for it's PP range

This is a disingenuous thing to say considering the 2J ranges from 500-650+ and dominates that entire region

 

[jgancherjr]

This is a disingenuous thing to say considering the 2J ranges from 500-650+ and dominates that entire region

I'm thinking this is something to do with PD making a mistake, I remember around (possibly before) 2.00 reading a patch note saying the 2J now has added downforce/vacuum which would be adjustable via the chassis section in tuning... Never happened that I'm aware of, I know neither one of mine are adjustable?

 

[Snorevette]

This is a disingenuous thing to say considering the 2J ranges from 500-650+ and dominates that entire region

I wouldn't say that - it does have a rivalry with the ballistic Toyota 7, and when fully tuned it hardly 'dominates' the LMP cars - I'd say you could quite easily beat a 2J with a Sauber.
It needs a nerf in the form of an increase in PP, yes, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it cheating. Overpowered? Definitely, but then a lot of the cars in this game are overpowered in one way or another.

 

[GranTurismo916]

No car in this game is a cheat car if used correctly.

 

[Polsixe]

I'll write again, based on the stock power and weight ratio the 2j is a +700pp car and more equal to LMP cars than 650 pp GTs. Yes it is not as fast down the straights as a Group C but on twisty tracks it can hold it's own. It's either a mistake or gift from PD,

Even detuning it always has the ~50pp advantage, so it tends to dominate.

 

[Vegard]

The 2J highlights the flawed PP system more than most cars.

That is all.

 

[Dalone]

First off the FIA didn't ban the 2J from anything. It never raced in any FIA governed races. FIA only governed 2 racing series at the time of the 2J and the car wasn't in either of them. The 2J raced in the Can-Am series which is governed by the SCCA. Second, it wasn't banned due to 'domination.' It raced 4 times, and placed 6th in one race. That's it. One 6th place finish. It was banned because the other drivers complained of having rocks thrown at their cars while driving behind the 2J.

Not quite accurate Johof, the following from Ultimatecarpage.com.

Courtesy of the company's many past innovations, the introduction of the Chaparral 2J was highly anticipated. Despite not being completely ready, Hall rushed the car's debut to prevent other teams from stealing his idea. He hired F1 World Champion Jackie Stewart for the occasion and he was immediately on the pace. He set the fastest lap, but was forced to retire with boiling brake fluid. By that time the Rockwell engine had already failed, which would remain the 2J's Achilles heel for the remainder of the season. Chaparral skipped three races to further develop the car and at their return, Vic Elford promptly placed the white machine on pole, with a margin of more than a second over the McLaren of Denny Hulme. At the start Elford was passed by the two Works McLarens because of the automatic gearbox, but within two laps he had gotten by both and took off into the distance. Sadly the fan-engine started to act up again and due to pitting several times, the 2J eventually finished the race in sixth.

While the new Chaparral had not won a race yet, the other teams realized that once it was made reliable, there was nothing stopping the innovative racer. Instead of trying to adopt the sucker system themselves, the teams started to complain. They figured that the spinning fans were in fact moving aerodynamic devices. At the season's final race, the controversy reached a peak and the 2J was banned, despite a final attempt by Hall to convince the sport's governing body that the sucker system was perfectly legal. Elford was allowed to compete in the final race and he gave the car a fitting final outing by putting it on pole again, 2.2 seconds clear of the rest. Sadly the fan motor broke once again in the middle of a very high speed corner. With no suction, the car lost almost all grip, but fortunately Elford managed to keep the car out of the wall.

~~

True it never won a race due to mechanical problems, but it did start on pole in every race it entered, and up to 2.2 seconds quicker than the 2nd place car.

 

[Coenraad]

Well, looking at the last time trail, and how the car is (ab)used for seasonals, i believe this car is just a little too much.
I think it should be excluded from timetrails, so the conventional cars can be more competetive, and so people actualy drive more then just 1 type of car in the top 10.

I scraped my J2 as soon as i recieved one. I find it just too ugly to look at. If i don't find a car look nice i won't drive it, nomather how good it is. I rather drive dead last in a car i like, then first in a car i think is fugly

 

[Mpumi]

Good luck with beating 2.00.7xx ! I can put one on share for tonight if you like...

Sounds like a plan. Will take my chances

 

[Dalone]

Well, looking at the last time trail, and how the car is (ab)used for seasonals, i believe this car is just a little too much.
I think it should be excluded from timetrails, so the conventional cars can be more competetive, and so people actualy drive more then just 1 type of car in the top 10.

I scraped my J2 as soon as i recieved one. I find it just too ugly to look at. If i don't find a car look nice i won't drive it, nomather how good it is. I rather drive dead last in a car i like, then first in a car i think is fugly

I've probably scraped my 2J hundreds of times and also find it less than attractive, but I'm not making love to it (scraping if you like), but that's not a problem for me as I drive using the front view where you don't see the car at all. Except for when it's in front of you of course and that is negated even more in this pitch black TT.

 

[Jaywalker]

Sounds like a plan. Will take my chances

I was referring to the TT that ended today... It looks like the new one is also a 2J affair. I put one of my cars on share last night. (pmjg tune) 👍

 

[Mpumi]

I was referring to the TT that ended today... It looks like the new one is also a 2J affair. I put one of my cars on share last night. (pmjg tune) 👍

Then l better start on that one using a 2J

 

[NCRthree]

The problem is the availability to me. I haven't seen one in my GTP account UCD for a couple years, granted I don't monitor it closely. Seems like forever since it was in a OCD.

If I was new to GT5 or wasn't aware of the borrowing system, it would be frustrating not having a way to attain one easily.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Labelling it a cheat car is a bit extreme and mostly hyperbole, but there's no denying the 2J is dramatically underrated by the PP system. This is something that should be addressed in GT6 but I fear it won't. PD's first foray into altering the PP system was a complete disaster and shows that they have no clue what is wrong with the system or how to fix it and so they'll likely leave it alone. It would be nice if a larger number of cars were competitive in TT's and not just the handful the dramaticaly break the system, would really add to the playability of the game.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Labelling it a cheat car is a bit extreme and mostly hyperbole, but there's no denying the 2J is dramatically underrated by the PP system. This is something that should be addressed in GT6 but I fear it won't. PD's first foray into altering the PP system was a complete disaster and shows that they have no clue what is wrong with the system or how to fix it and so they'll likely leave it alone. It would be nice if a larger number of cars were competitive in TT's and not just the handful the dramaticaly break the system, would really add to the playability of the game.

Very well said my good friend. 👍

 

[seanneedscar]

I wouldn't say that - it does have a rivalry with the ballistic Toyota 7,

The Toyota 7's traction hurts it in comparison to the 2j. In which, you can give the throttle the beans at any point and not spin.

The 7 is crazy, but its not 2J crazy.

and when fully tuned it hardly 'dominates' the LMP cars - I'd say you could quite easily beat a 2J with a Sauber.

A Sauber, along with any other LMP will suffer greatly when detuned to 653 PP. I'd say this depends on the track really, and rolling / standing start, ect ect.. too many factors to consider, but overall I disagree with it 'easily' beating a 2J

Overpowered? Definitely, but then a lot of the cars in this game are overpowered in one way or another.

Yes you're absolutely right, but no other car in the game is as overpowered as the 2J; and because of this, in the eyes of the beholder, it could be considered a cheater car. If it wasnt, why would people be grinding it on b-spec mode 24 hours a day, getting it down to 500pp. That's all I'm saying