Will General Motors declare bankruptcy?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Zardoz
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last I heard, saturn was the cheap GM company... behind everything else... unless they changed it since then... i wouldnt know if they did, cause I hate all things saturn besides the ion red line, but even the reg ions look bad to me... and every old one I see has the loudest valve tapping I've ever heard... but thats probly due to owners never ever changing their oil
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I don't know how you think they are cheap, I would say Saturn puts out some of the best cars in GM's line up.

I thought they killed off Olds.. why are they still around??
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They aren't still around, there hasn't been an Oldsmobile car in 2 years.
 
so you never heard that saturn was supposed to be the cheap, affordable, gm car? my dad heard that when he was the manager of a new car dealer back then
 
Back when they came out there were supposed to be but now they are far from a cheap brand
 
BlazinXtreme
Back when they came out there were supposed to be but now they are far from a cheap brand
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Again, GM just shoots themsleves in the foot. They need that ceap staple or incredibly reliable(or perceived that way) brand. I mean, honda's sell because people think they won't break. That's it. So, GM needs to figure out how to get us to think that about one of their makes.
 
The Saturns are selling well, GM didn't shoot themselves in the foot. I would gladly take a Saturn verison of a car then another verison. Example, I would take the Ion over the Cobalt, the VUE over a Equinox, and a Sky over a Soltice.
 
BlazinXtreme
The Saturns are selling well, GM didn't shoot themselves in the foot. I would gladly take a Saturn verison of a car then another verison. Example, I would take the Ion over the Cobalt, the VUE over a Equinox, and a Sky over a Soltice.
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I agree on the Sky. However, the other cars I wouldn't even consider owning...maybe a Cobalt, maybe. :sly:
 
I test drove both the Cobalt and the Ion, as well as the Cobalt SS and Ion Redline. In both cases I liked the Saturn much better, it just felt like it was built better even though they are the same car. I would love to own a Redline, but I have to remember I'm getting married soon and that's not a family type car.
 
BlazinXtreme
I would love to own a Redline, but I have to remember I'm getting married soon and that's not a family type car.
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A man with good sense. That's always a nice thing to see. 👍
 
BlazinXtreme
The Saturns are selling well, GM didn't shoot themselves in the foot. I would gladly take a Saturn verison of a car then another verison. Example, I would take the Ion over the Cobalt, the VUE over a Equinox, and a Sky over a Soltice.
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While the Sky is definately right and the Ion is rather iffy, I highly doubt the Vue's superiority over the Equinox. Especially since the Vue is all ugly and wavy now. The only thing the Vue had over the Equinox was good looks (and the Equinox is no Pontiac Aztek, either) and available Honda power, and one of those things is gone now. Saturns are better built Chevrolets than Chevrolets are these days, and their gimmicky plastic bodies has to sell cars.
 
SUV's will always be around, big ones, small ones, doesn't matter. The era isn't over because you have people that won't buy these cross overs...I know I won't because truely a car based SUV is nothing more then a big station wagon. A truck based SUV is just a truck you can haul people with instead of crap.
 
Was there ever a point to the EXT? With a wheellbase and overall length within a few inches of the Tahoe, and the same V8, what was the point to begin with?

If GM had intended to make it 7 passenger from the beginning, they should have gone unibody. It was clearly an afterthought, and not a good one at that.
 
The EXT was far cheaper and some people liked the look of it better.
 
BlazinXtreme
SUV's will always be around, big ones, small ones, doesn't matter. The era isn't over because you have people that won't buy these cross overs...I know I won't because truely a car based SUV is nothing more then a big station wagon. A truck based SUV is just a truck you can haul people with instead of crap.
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Yes, they will always be around, but I think their run as "fashion statement" has pretty much run it's course.

The Magnum shows that DC is actually thinking forward. The HHR is also some sign of trendsetting rather than trend following at GM...

...but to set a trend, they need to learn to make a car pretty--not just "polarizing".
BlazinXtreme
The EXT was far cheaper and some people liked the look of it better.
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Really? I thought they came out pretty similar once you optioned them the same way. Maybe the discounts made the difference.

Looking up prices now...

EDIT: a quick glance shows that, yes, the EXT is cheaper by $2-$3 grand but not once you get the optional V8.
 
Well you could get more stuff on a EXT for less money, but the EXT isn't nearly as comfortable in the back seats as a Yukon or Tahoe.
 
BlazinXtreme
SUV's will always be around, big ones, small ones, doesn't matter. The era isn't over because you have people that won't buy these cross overs...I know I won't because truely a car based SUV is nothing more then a big station wagon. A truck based SUV is just a truck you can haul people with instead of crap.
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SUV's will always be around, but that's not what the article was talking about. It was referring to the popularity of the SUV, how it surged in the late 90's, and how that popularity is now dwindling as more and more consumers opt for smaller, more fuel-efficient cars.
 
I think the popularity is still very strong, I see more SUV's and trucks on the road then cars now a days. I think people will still buy SUV's, regaurdless of the price of fuel. Hell I drive an SUV.
 
BlazinXtreme
I think the popularity is still very strong, I see more SUV's and trucks on the road then cars now a days. I think people will still buy SUV's, regaurdless of the price of fuel. Hell I drive an SUV.
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To be honest, that last sentence does rather good job of negating the rest of the post. ;)

Anyway, although some people are getting sick of paying for gas, paying for a new car is even more expensive...so the number of SUV's on the streets won't decrease for a while yet, if it does decrease...
 
It won't decrease, GM's new line of full sizes will be the most fuel efficent yet. I mean a Tahoe that gets 20mpg is really good for something that will haul, you, the wife, the kids, the dog, adn the boat. Companies will just switch their engineering to make the SUV more buyable.
 
BlazinXtreme
It won't decrease, GM's new line of full sizes will be the most fuel efficent yet. I mean a Tahoe that gets 20mpg is really good for something that will haul, you, the wife, the kids, the dog, adn the boat. Companies will just switch their engineering to make the SUV more buyable.
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The buying public already has a SUV image. Big, not enviro-friendly, and gas guzzling. No amount of miracle engineering will fix that.

No one cares if a Tahoe is only a few MPG behind a Camry. It's got it's image, and it's going to have a hard time losing it.

And the 20 mpg is at constant speed operation. It's a very different picture when it's towing something anyways. I bet you'd be hard pressed to get out of the low teens.
 
skip - I don't think people are worried about when it tows, since a Camry certainly can't do the job, and I don't think there is a fuel effecient way to tow, people who need/want to tow things like, boats trailers, and so forth, will keep doing it
 
Disturbed07
skip - I don't think people are worried about when it tows, since a Camry certainly can't do the job, and I don't think there is a fuel effecient way to tow, people who need/want to tow things like, boats trailers, and so forth, will keep doing it
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Good point.

A diesel would be the best for towing but the US has crappy diesel fuel and diesel vehicles are already not being sold in a few states, so looks like that's not the future...
 
And GM is going to release the diesel for pretty much all of the 900 line up.
 
a tahoe is not "just a few miles behind the camry." the four banger camries get >30mpg.

but its also the running costs; car washes, oil filters, tires, oil changes, brake jobs, insurance etc is all more likely to be more expensive on the truck than the car.
 
BlazinXtreme
And GM is going to release the diesel for pretty much all of the 900 line up.
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They should release a hybrid, that will give them a better image than a diesel. Plus, diesels can't be sold in Massachusetts or California.
Zardoz
This story is almost weird. Has GM really been unaware that a lot of its cars have been just plain boring lately?

This is news to GM execs?
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GM hasn't yet done an "exciting" design that wins over a majority of buyers without being "weird". They tried: Aztek, SSR, HHR...not one really took off or was well liked. Probably becuse they were "flashy" but had no substance to underly that (HHR excluded).
 
Hmm... thought the Trailblazer looked okay... can't really think of anything besides that and the Corvette that get the pulse racing at GM...
 
There was a shimmer of innovation at GM with some early nineties Oldsmobiles ('89 Cutlass 2 door) and Buicks (Riviera), although noone seemed to care, and quite a few performance cars albiet with bland exteriors...but to see the last bit of exciting design that came out of GM you would have to go back to the boat tail buicks of the early 70s. Late 70's Monte Carlos were fairly stylish too.
 
They should release a hybrid, that will give them a better image than a diesel. Plus, diesels can't be sold in Massachusetts or California.
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They will be releasing E55 trucks as well from what I have heard. Also in 2007 GM will be releasing both the Tahoe and the Yukon as full hybrid models. Not to mention the hybrid Saturn VUE Greenline which will be out May of 2007.

GM isn't known for being an exciting brand, however now with the Corvette update, the Cobalt SS/Ion Redline duo, Soltice/Sky duo, and a lot of the other SS's. They are strating to go that way. I know with a Trailblazer SS it would be exciting, if AWD and a LS2 doesn't get your heart pumping there is a problem.
 

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