Will General Motors declare bankruptcy?

[Joey D]

LOL dont know about laws in michigan but in the UK I could have a A6 and tow like a lotus elise with it.

I highly doubt an A6 could pull my boat, but it could probably tow my dirt bikes.

SUV'S bother me, hurt me and cost me money.

Ok they bother you, but they don't hurt you and they sure as hell don't cost you money.

They were out roads faster. That costs me money.
They produce more waste products and if they crash into a car they kill.So they hurt me.
SUV's take up all the road, produce unnecessary waste and kill people that they plow into. That bothers me.

It's wear roads out, not were roads out. But they don't, my truck only weighs in at 3300 lbs., get 20 mpg, and it the most unsafe vehilce on the road. So no I don't produce waste, there are a lot of cars with worse mileage then mine. No I don't wear the roads out, big rigs do. No I don't kill people because I don't crash into anyone.

what mortgage banker need a truck?
or housewife?

My mom needed a truck, she used to go to trade shows with stuff and had to pull a trailer. My buddies dad has a trailer camper thing, and show me a car that can pull one of those.

most trucks here in california are bought as a primary use vehicle, and not used for towing, hauling, hunting. i have a co worker who has used the bed in his truck ONCE in two years.
another bought one so he could "take his surfboard" withhim instead of strapping it on the roof.
actually, another two own trucks for surfing. as though a roof rack cant hold a surfboard.

Honestly who F'in cares what they use them for? Some people just like trucks. You have no say in what they buy.

BX i call BS on that "trucks must not be unibody" crap. unibodies are inherently stronger/ stiffer than body on frames.

I would never drive a unibody truck or SUV, I like my frame under my ass. Like the Honda truck, its a joke, I bet you can't even put a full load of mulch in the bed. Oh wait you can't put anything in the bed because its as useless as the Sport Trac. But it has a trunk!

they just havent attacked the "truck angle" with unibodies properly yet.

You just answered the question why unibody trucks suck

maybe some of you should spend some time outside cities and realize that there are a hell of a lot of people driving trucks that are rednecks....for those of you who always think that im stating exact numbers --- you are stupid -- and if anyone (like blazin) wants to start naming people they know of with trucks that arent rednecks, we can all start naming craploads of people and sound like idiots, no? ok lets not
and where did some of you get that I said all? how dumb is that?

the best part of all of this is the fact that when I've mentioned NASCAR before, some of you very same people started making all kinds of redneck jokes -- whats up your @$$? you can make stereotypes and I can't? get real -- what? are you gonna tell me now that all nascar fans are rednecks again? guess you can't....are you gonna say you never said that? I hope so.....pretend you don't contradict yourself...dumb@$$es

Hmmm seems to me I go outside the city all the time, I guess you know better then I where on this planet I go. But honestly they buy trucks in the "country" because they need the 4WD so they can get down muddy roads and when it snows.

And I'm a NASCAR fan, I'm not a redneck.

 

[Young_Warrior]

LOL nascar sucks.

I highly doubt an A6 could pull my boat

How much does it weigh?

Ok they bother you, but they don't hurt you and they sure as hell don't cost you money.

But they do hurt me because they produce extra unnecessary waste which is bad for my health. And it does cost me money as my tax goes to repairing roads. You telling me a 4 ton SUV ont mess up the roads and where them down faster?.

No I don't kill people because I don't crash into anyone.

But if you did... But then again your truck or SUV is not a proper truck or SUV. More of a minivan without all the minivan properties. We arent talking you but SUV's and Trucks in general.

My mom needed a truck, she used to go to trade shows with stuff and had to pull a trailer. My buddies dad has a trailer camper thing, and show me a car that can pull one of those.

A A6 could have done what your mum needed a vehicle to do.
And with the camper trailer thing in England and the netherlands there are loads of trailers and campers that get pulled along by executive saloons. But obviously if its a great big huge thing your gonna need a big truck like a Dodge Ram.

I would never drive a unibody truck or SUV, I like my frame under my ass.

So you wouldnt drive an X5? But an X5 does everyhting your car does but in BMW style.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

i could take your point better if you didnt correct somebody for mispelling "wear" & then 2 lines later type this::: - - read it close

It's wear roads out, not were roads out. But they don't, my truck only weighs in at 3300 lbs., get (s?) 20 mpg, and it ('s?) the most unsafe vehilce - (vehicle?) on the road.

anyways, i realize i was wrong...there are hardly any rednecks driving trucks....

 

[Joey D]

How much does it weigh?

Beats me its huge as hell though, my dad's van can pull it but its not easy. And his van has a 5.7 V8 and its a 2500 which means it can haul more crap. But a car can't pull it, the rear suspension couldn't take it. The motor might though.

But they do hurt me because they produce extra unnecessary waste which is bad for my health. And it does cost me money as my tax goes to repairing roads. You telling me a 4 ton SUV ont mess up the roads and where them down faster?.

Then people should only drive Hybrids, because SUV's really don't put a ton of waste out into the air. Trains, planes, ships, big rigs, all put out more waste. Hell factories, power plants, etc. And no the roads are built to handel big rigs, an SUV is far smaller.

But if you did... But then again your truck or SUV is not a proper truck or SUV. More of a minivan without all the minivan properties. We arent talking you but SUV's and Trucks in general.

A minivan? What are you retarded or something? I have two doors, no sliding door, its RWD, body on frame, lowered, looks like an S-10, only seats four people, and doesn't have a soccer ball on the back. It's more of a station wagon then anything.

A A6 could have done what your mum needed a vehicle to do.
And with the camper trailer thing in England and the netherlands there are loads of trailers and campers that get pulled along by executive saloons. But obviously if its a great big huge thing your gonna need a big truck like a Dodge Ram.

An A6 could have pulled a 15 foot trailer? Doubt it. And the truck was about 15 grand less I'm willing to bet, but this was a long time ago. She drive a Pacifica now.

My buddies camper is a 5th wheel which means no car.

So you wouldnt drive an X5? But an X5 does everyhting your car does but in BMW style.

I wouldn't drive a BMW because I hate them, and it doesn't do everything my truck does. I couldn't corner nearly as fast in a X5 due to its COG. But I would kill myself if I drove a BMW because they are tool cars in my opinion.

i could take your point better if you didnt correct somebody for mispelling "wear" & then 2 lines later type this::: - - read it close

It's wear roads out, not were roads out. But they don't, my truck only weighs in at 3300 lbs., get (s?) 20 mpg, and it ('s?) the most unsafe vehilce - (vehicle?) on the road.

anyways, i realize i was wrong...there are hardly any rednecks driving trucks....

Meh I mistyped deal with it

 

[Young_Warrior]

LOL i would hedge a bet that you could corner faster in a standard top spec X5 than your blazer.

 

[Firebird]

am I the only one who noticed a Canadian correcting an American for calling it America? & people wonder why Americans make fun of other countries

America:

North America:

South America:

United States (of America):

 

[Joey D]

LOL i would hedge a bet that you could corner faster in a standard top spec X5 than your blazer.

My center of gravity is very low and I have very stickey tires

 

[High-Test]

LOL i would hedge a bet that you could corner faster in a standard top spec X5 than your blazer.

Is it that difficult for you to make meaningful posts?

Since the "you" referred to BlazinXtreme, I'd say he would corner better in his blazer than the X5, because he's used to his truck, and he doesn't know the X5's limits.

Ol' Bob can rally the General's troops up and save GM. Give him another year. Americans will buy American Trucks. If the 957,000ish F-150s sold in the current F series' first model year means anything, it most likely means that Americans like American trucks. YW, anything that wrecks has the possibility to kill your beloved topgear crashed two cars together at 60 mph, and nobody would have survived. Granted, an SUV is larger and has lots of inertia, but a 3800 lb. Ford mondeo at around 45 mph has alot as well. A Ford Mondeo could be just as deadly at 45 as a Ford Escape. All cars produce the same stuff, so don't single out SUVs as being worse. Beleive it or not, German cars do produce tailpipe emissions.

Toyota engineers are relentless about perfection. Which, is why their products cost an arm and a leg to get fixed. (1200 dollars for an SC300 light installed?! -that's another story) I guess they got complacent and forgot that things break.


And, I'm typing this in a hailstorm, Kansans make good wheat, good planes, good beef, and great big freakin Hailstones. (well, the atmosphere makes them, but Kansas will at least take credit for the largest hailstone evAr!!)

 

[Joey D]

I'm glad High-Test at least has a brain and knows whats up.

 

[High-Test]

For me, at 5'4", everything's up!

 

[LeadSlead#2]

dang, I don't live in the United States of AMERICA --- dumb@$$

why is blazin comparing a modified Blazer to a stock X5?
you can make just about any vehicle handle better than any other if you modify only one
or is that reflecting badly on GM? (that is my job, right?)

 

[LeadSlead#2]

wow, I just took a closer look -- you really think all of north & south american continents are america? what do you cal Australia & Asia? & Africa & Europe? Dumb@$$

 

[High-Test]

Both you and Y_W need to realize that the edit button is your friend. I believe Australia is Australia, and Europe and Asia is Eurasia. But I'm most likely wrong. That matter can be discussed in a different topic.

So ah... Then why does one compare a modified Civic to a Mustang? (Again, another topic)

Once again, Firebird has owned everyone.

Blazin - There's no "e" in sticky.. (Oh well, I can''t spell strenghth[EDIT! damn, it's strength]..) See, I'm one of those idiots who forgets stuff and mispells things and so, the little gray button with the E word is now my close friend.

Something in me gives me the feeling that the redesigned trucks and new roadsters can really help out GM. Now if they can just work out the damn union contracts..


Anyone else think that Jimmy Hoffa's ghost (if he's dead) is pushing pins into a GM voodoo doll? (or.. would it be a voodoo logo, because it's impossible to make a doll of a company, right?)

 

[neanderthal]

america is a huge land mass divided into two continents; north america and south america.

for some reasons "americans" like to refer to america as though it refers to only thier county, when the actual name of their country is "the united states of america." canadians are americans. as are mexicans, anybody from any country vaguely near the american landmass. cubans are americans. jamaicans are americans. people living on the falkland islands are americans.

but hawaiians are pacific islanders. even though they are politically (not geographically) americans.

anyway.

i can and have safely towed a 3400lb BMW with my 2.6 liter mercedes 300E. mine may not be as optimised for towing as all mercedes station wagons are (lower rear end ratio (higher numerically!) hydraulic suspension compensation, integrated trailer hitch wiring, transmission cooler (although thats standard for all mercedes with an auto tranny,) reinforced suspension arms etc) but it can still do it, and has an available a factory tow hitch.

its very very common for 2-3 liter cars to tow caravans in europe and africa. so dont go poo pooh-ing it if you dont know. they may not be going at 80mph, but they certainly do tow em. now that is likely due to fuel prices, people really cant afford to buy cars with milage figures in the teens in europe, and cant afford to have a spare car just sitting around ready to tow thier caravan when they go on vacation twice a year. so they make do with what they have, often getting the biggest engine theycan in that car class, usually a V6 of about 3 liter capacity.

anyway, to just assume that cars and unibodies are unsuitable for towing is ignorant. that is not the case. if just so happens to be that in this country, most tow rigs are frame based trucks. go to europe and you see cars towing all the time. it might not be the 12000lbs a dodge duallie might pull, but it will certainly be a boats worth, a cars worth, a travel caravans worth.

i saw people hauling mad stuff with thier cars all the time. my dad straight abuses his car overloading it with 5 people (me 210lbs, him same, my twin brother 300lbs, my uncle 200lbs a neighbour 170lbs. thats 1090lbs of just people, probably already beyond the cars payload) , their stuff in the trunk, stuff on the roof rack, and towing a small trailer on top of all that. and thats a carburetted 1.3 liter mazda 323. that car was going over a rough third world road to my grandmothers out in the country. i commented that the weight was far beyond the capacity listed on the sidewalls of the 155R13 tyres, probably way beyond what the car was listed for and he laughed and said "i haul more stuff for neighbours constantly, welcome back to the third world."

 

[Firebird]

wow, I just took a closer look -- you really think all of north & south american continents are america? what do you cal Australia & Asia? & Africa & Europe? Dumb@$$

I don't "think" the North and South American continents constitute the Americas, I know the North and South American continents constitute the Americas.

US citizens are generally the only people in the Americas who don't know this.

Australia is Australia, unless you want to lump it with the Pacific islands to make Oceania. Asia is Asia, Europe is Europe, and Africa is Africa. Europe and Asia are Eurasia.

Think of Europe and the EU. The Swiss are European, even if they're not part of the EU. For the same reason, I'm as "American" as you, a Mexican, a Brazilian, an Argentinian, etc.

In fact, tell any of the other aforementioned Americans you're from America. They'll tell you you're "estadounidense", or "estadunidense" in Brazil, roughly translated as "United-Statian", after they've inferred your mother was an inexpensive prostitute.

 

[Wolfe]

I refer to the usa as "america" all the time simply out of habit, but I'm well aware of the distinction that I live in "the united states of america." I hope our northern and southern neighbors can forgive my laziness!

As for the unibody/X5 debate...
- Yes, an X5 will likely outcorner a Blazer, lightly tuned or not, any day of the week.
- No, unibodies are not good for towing; they might do it, but that doesn't make them good for it.
- To put it simply, body-on-frame trucks/SUVs are stronger. Unibody SUVs are stiffer. Frame trucks/SUVs pull stuff. Unibody SUVs are comfortable and handle well.

@Blazin: To borrow LeadSlead's complaint, how come he can't make a stereotype about rednecks and domestic trucks, but you can stereotype X5 drivers as ditzy women and BMW drivers as "tools?"

I mean, I don't like the X5 myself (the Cayenne is faster and handles better, and most of the other SUV's on the market are more practical), but to completely dismiss a car and brandname based on image alone?

 

[Joey D]

@Blazin: To borrow LeadSlead's complaint, how come he can't make a stereotype about rednecks and domestic trucks, but you can stereotype X5 drivers as ditzy women and BMW drivers as "tools?"

I put the laughing face next to the ditzy women comment signifying it was a joke. I said they were tool cars in MY OPINION. LeadSlead just said half the people that drive trucks are rednecks, but never added in my opinion. I could have cared less if he would have said that or put the laughing face.

I mean, I don't like the X5 myself (the Cayenne is faster and handles better, and most of the other SUV's on the market are more practical), but to completely dismiss a car and brandname based on image alone?

I hate BMW's, just like people hate GM, but I don't go around saying they suck. I just say I don't like them. I'm sure they are great cars, I just wouldn't be caught dead in one. And as far as fast SUV's that corner well, I'll take a 1993 Typhoon thank you very much. It will seriously do everything the BMW will do and its older, cheaper, and in my opinion better looking.

why is blazin comparing a modified Blazer to a stock X5?
you can make just about any vehicle handle better than any other if you modify only one
or is that reflecting badly on GM? (that is my job, right?)

Because Young_Warrior brought it up. And as far as I can tell your job is to come on these boards and start things that shouldn't be started.

And you don't understand why I keep saying a truck for towing. Think about it it's more then just the engine, it's the suspension, transmission, etc. Mostly the suspension. I can't tow 5,000 lbs. like I once could because of being lowered, but I still can hook up a trailer with no problems.

 

[Duke]

This thread is very close to being closed due to all the idiocy flying around. Straighten it up.

The people calling other people "dumba$$" should take a serious look at themselves before they dare call someone else such a name.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Is it that difficult for you to make meaningful posts?

Since the "you" referred to BlazinXtreme, I'd say he would corner better in his blazer than the X5, because he's used to his truck, and he doesn't know the X5's limits.

Ol' Bob can rally the General's troops up and save GM. Give him another year. Americans will buy American Trucks. If the 957,000ish F-150s sold in the current F series' first model year means anything, it most likely means that Americans like American trucks. YW, anything that wrecks has the possibility to kill your beloved topgear crashed two cars together at 60 mph, and nobody would have survived. Granted, an SUV is larger and has lots of inertia, but a 3800 lb. Ford mondeo at around 45 mph has alot as well. A Ford Mondeo could be just as deadly at 45 as a Ford Escape. All cars produce the same stuff, so don't single out SUVs as being worse. Beleive it or not, German cars do produce tailpipe emissions.

Toyota engineers are relentless about perfection. Which, is why their products cost an arm and a leg to get fixed. (1200 dollars for an SC300 light installed?! -that's another story) I guess they got complacent and forgot that things break.


And, I'm typing this in a hailstorm, Kansans make good wheat, good planes, good beef, and great big freakin Hailstones. (well, the atmosphere makes them, but Kansas will at least take credit for the largest hailstone evAr!!)

Pull your head out the sand and stop your little girly blouse accousations.

I can make my vovlo the fastes car in the world with enough money if I wanted to. Its a stock vs stock comparison.

And what has blazing knowing his truck got to do with an X5 not being able to corner faster than this truck?

"Im sorry but a blazer is better than a X5 at cornering at speed because I suck at driving"

YW, anything that wrecks has the possibility to kill your beloved topgear crashed two cars together at 60 mph, and nobody would have survived. Granted, an SUV is larger and has lots of inertia, but a 3800 lb. Ford mondeo at around 45 mph has alot as well.

Exactly at high speed most likely everyone will die. But at low speed the SUV will annilated 95% of teh cars on the road whilst if both vehicles were cars the survival percentage for both drivers would be alot higher. You dont need to go fast in a SUV to kill. And there are alot more low speed crashes than high speed ones.

All cars produce the same stuff, so don't single out SUVs as being worse. Beleive it or not, German cars do produce tailpipe emissions.

No not all cars produce the same stuff... At all. Well done you have just showed that you dont know much about cars at all. I can get me a car tomorrow that produces no harmful emissions at all.

And SUV's do produce alot more harmful emissions that cars. German SUV or not german SUV they are less efficient than a saloon.

So ah... Then why does one compare a modified Civic to a Mustang?

No one in this thread has compared a modified civic to a mustang.

Toyota engineers are relentless about perfection. Which, is why their products cost an arm and a leg to get fixed. (1200 dollars for an SC300 light installed?!

You got ripped.

So next time before you go and insult me atleast have some valid facts behind you for me to deserve such comment.

 

[Duke]

So next time before you go and insult me atleast have some valid facts behind you for me to deserve such comment.

This statement is so richly ironic that I hardly know where to begin.

I'm warning you people, this thread is near death.

 

[Joey D]

Kill it, these people are grossly uninformed about things.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Just because your losing a conversation dont go about sulking and just closing a convo you dont like.

 

[Joey D]

I'm not losing, nobody is losing, nobody is winning, but this thread is becoming stupid because trying to argue with you guys is like trying to keep cake away from a fat kid...it's impossible.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Except in our opionion were trying to keep the cake from you.

But you see I dont mind at all. As soon as I tire of the convo I will just stop replying and either admit defeat or recognise that we shall have to agree to disagree.

Anyway just done my research and a audi A6 can tow something weighing up to 2.1 tonnes. Straight off the audi site.

 

[Wolfe]

I put the laughing face next to the ditzy women comment signifying it was a joke. I said they were tool cars in MY OPINION. LeadSlead just said half the people that drive trucks are rednecks, but never added in my opinion. I could have cared less if he would have said that or put the laughing face.

I hate BMW's, just like people hate GM, but I don't go around saying they suck. I just say I don't like them. I'm sure they are great cars, I just wouldn't be caught dead in one. And as far as fast SUV's that corner well, I'll take a 1993 Typhoon thank you very much. It will seriously do everything the BMW will do and its older, cheaper, and in my opinion better looking.

Alright, I misunderstood. I was just making sure.



As for SUVs and safety/emissions, SUVs do produce more emissions. But it's not because they're SUVs. It's because they're heavier than most cars -- so the engines are made more powerful, and/or work harder to keep up with traffic -- and because the engines are often OHV, large-displacement designs, which offer more torque for towing but lose out on efficiency. It's hardly a "large" difference, by any means, but the difference is there.

As for safety, SUVs are more prone to rollovers than cars, but the height adds the ability to see everything around you. As for crashing into other cars, SUVs have the unfortunate tendency to aim for the passenger windows in a t-bone style of accident. Their weight causes them to have a much higher amount of momentum, which tears through smaller, lighter cars, but heavy luxury cars will do the same exact thing.

 

[Joey D]

Fine to keep it civil I will reply in an orderly fashion...unlike you.

Pull your head out the sand and stop your little girly blouse accousations.

I can make my vovlo the fastes car in the world with enough money if I wanted to. Its a stock vs stock comparison.

And what has blazing knowing his truck got to do with an X5 not being able to corner faster than this truck?

"Im sorry but a blazer is better than a X5 at cornering at speed because I suck at driving"

I believe you said that an X5 can do anything my truck can do with the BMW image. I said it can't corner nearly as well. You full well know my truck isn't stock, you started the comparison and I just finished it. I know what my truck can do, and I promise you it can take corners very well for and SUV. Lowered, sport suspension, pretty much Corvette shocks, beefier sway bars, sticky tires, Corvette steering box. Trust me I know what it can do.

Exactly at high speed most likely everyone will die. But at low speed the SUV will annilated 95% of teh cars on the road whilst if both vehicles were cars the survival percentage for both drivers would be alot higher. You dont need to go fast in a SUV to kill. And there are alot more low speed crashes than high speed ones.

So if an Audi A8 plows into a Civic, it's no big deal? I would bet an A8 weighs in at more then my truck does.

No not all cars produce the same stuff... At all. Well done you have just showed that you dont know much about cars at all. I can get me a car tomorrow that produces no harmful emissions at all.

And SUV's do produce alot more harmful emissions that cars. German SUV or not german SUV they are less efficient than a saloon.

So you're tell me my 4.3L V6 engine produces more emissions then a W12 A8? I doubt that, plus I burn regular 87 octane while the Audi burns 93 octane, which is more expensive and more wasteful. More power = more fuel = more waste.

 

[Young_Warrior]

A audi A8 is low production and driven by the rich. Theyre numbers are miniscule. And im sure that your 4.3 will indeed produce more harmful emmissions than audis W8. Tha audi also burns 95 not 93 but it likes 98 best.

And an A8 weighs about 2 tonnes. Its basically a limo so yeah its heavy.

 

[Joey D]

Well there you go, its bigger then my truck, heavier then my truck, will produce more waste, higher emissions, and if it hits you it will kill you.

You think SUV's are dangerous, I think big cars are just as dangerous. I can think of some Benz's that do the same thing, and what about a 7 series? That's a big car. Or wait what about Jags? They are all big cars which do the same thing as an SUV would if it hit a Civic.

 

[Young_Warrior]

SUV's and trucks = manual labour

98% of the owners dont do any of that.

Luxury limos = get people places in comfort and style

100% of owners do that.

Cars such as the A8 serve their purpose.But who said it produces more harmful emissions. what amount does your truck produce and im pretty certain a W8 is cleaner than your 4.2.

But blazing you keep referring back to your truck which is pretty much a station wagona nd not a full fledged SUV. Its a baby SUV.

 

[Duke]

A audi A8 is low production and driven by the rich. Theyre numbers are miniscule.

So, this is equivalent to saying that white horses eat less than brown horses... because there are fewer white horses.
👍
Now there is a well-reasoned argument if ever I heard one.