Will GT7 Get Left behind when Forza Motorsports 8 hits the Market?

[Ande3200]

How about actually playing it? Because in-game, the car is fine & nowhere near some of the bigger offenders like the R32. It is definitely not "outdated", either considering more of its details are much sharper in the new game. It has been said multiple times already, of course GT7's model looks better, PD is a developer literally obsessed with their models out-pacing everyone else.

But, telling others to do "your own research" is just you trying to deflect away. You made a bogus statement & you can't back it up when @ImaRobot called you out on it. You've been making these same outlandish posts before the game even released.

Becouse i already saw the marketing was false, built from the ground up is false, the fact is that they lied in their marketing and its very misleading, the graphics and rt reflections is nowhere near on what we saw at 2022 footage, the Porsche carrera gt is not as bad as the likes of Nissan skyline r32 and Silvia s15 but its not to the same standard as their newest cars created in Xbox one era and above, if its not problem for you then fine, but i am not getting behind this, if they called it fm8 many of those things would not be a problem but how they market the game this is something that needs to be said,

This like i said dosen’t make it bad game or anything, far from it, but with upgrade system is not good idea nobody ask for that system, while it might sound like good idea at first its not enjoyable in the longrun specially not for us that like tuning and upgrading our cars, i am still going to buy it but not until some stuff has been sorted out, i played every forza game since fm2 and have had good enjoyment with them over the years

 

[McLaren]

Becouse i already saw the marketing was false, built from the ground up is false, the fact is that they lied in their marketing and its very misleading, the graphics and rt reflections is nowhere near on what we saw at 2022 footage, the Porsche carrera gt is not as bad as the likes of Nissan skyline r32 and Silvia s15 but its not to the same standard as their newest cars created in Xbox one era and above, if its not problem for you then fine, but i am not getting behind this, if they called it fm8 many of those things would not be a problem but how they market the game this is something that needs to be said,

This like i said dosen’t make it bad game or anything, far from it, but with upgrade system is not good idea nobody ask for that system, while it might sound like good idea at first its not enjoyable in the longrun specially not for us that like tuning and upgrading our cars, i am still going to buy it but not until some stuff has been sorted out, i played every forza game since fm2 and have had good enjoyment with them over the years

So, this basically confirms my initial thought that you haven't played it at all, and are basing it off a YouTube video & other sources, just like that absurd "70-80" claim you made. As someone who just played the CGT tonight, it is just as good as the other cars; more of its details are more apparent than in FM7.

 

[DextroCat]

The economy is fine in fm, but the upgrade system sucks in this area gt7 is by far better, this is a downgrade campared to older forza games, they proably did this to get more people play daily on gamepass so it looks good for them

No the upgrades in GT7 are just as painful as everything else. You think oh I just buy them and I’m done, but no you can’t take off half of them so you can either buy a new engine (half the price of the car) or another car to remove them. Oh and the permanent upgrades change the redline so if you’re playing in VR the tachometer is no longer functional. Great. Race cars from 1952 have brakes that can’t be upgraded. Most NA cars can’t be turbocharged. McLarens and Paganis don’t have weight reduction. Stage 5 weight reduction cost 300 to 500k! Engine Swaps are 130k to over a million and there’s only one per car and of course irreversible. No drivetrain swaps. GT7’s upgrades are very mediocre and unnecessarily limited like many other aspects. And the upgrades/swaps being locked behind the Roulette was TERRIBLE but did get rectified unlike the overwhelming majority of issues after all this time.

Sorry I barely paid any attention to the marketing for FM23 because I was actually playing GT7 instead. Love GT7 to death and VR + DD wheel is amazing and FM won’t touch that, but the games are comparable quality wise, unfortunately.

 

[Ande3200]

No the upgrades in GT7 are just as painful as everything else. You think oh I just buy them and I’m done, but no you can’t take off half of them so you can either buy a new engine (half the price of the car) or another car to remove them. Oh and the permanent upgrades change the redline so if you’re playing in VR the tachometer is no longer functional. Great. Race cars from 1952 have brakes that can’t be upgraded. Most NA cars can’t be turbocharged. McLarens and Paganis don’t have weight reduction. Stage 5 weight reduction cost 300 to 500k! Engine Swaps are 130k to over a million and there’s only one per car and of course irreversible. No drivetrain swaps. GT7’s upgrades are very mediocre and unnecessarily limited like many other aspects. And the upgrades/swaps being locked behind the Roulette was TERRIBLE but did get rectified unlike the overwhelming majority of issues after all this time.

Sorry I barely paid any attention to the marketing for FM23 because I was actually playing GT7 instead. Love GT7 to death and VR + DD wheel is amazing and FM won’t touch that, but the games are comparable quality wise, unfortunately.

The prices can be over the top in gt7 With some upgrades, but its still better than been locked to car levels

So, this basically confirms my initial thought that you haven't played it at all, and are basing it off a YouTube video & other sources, just like that absurd "70-80" claim you made. As someone who just played the CGT tonight, it is just as good as the other cars; more of its details are more apparent than in FM7.

Whatever makes you sleep at night,
Facts still remains that they have lied in their marketing the game is not built from the ground up like claimed, reflections on tracks is not as good as showed in 2022 footage, digital foundry has call them out about this, all in their latest video, you dont have to defend everything about the game just becouse you like it, with things like this games will never evolve or be as good as they can be when people turning blind eye with issues, this goes for gt7 as well, the fact is its been 6 years and just like gt7 it releases in an incomplete state

 

[JDMKING13]

I finally will be playing FM tomorrow… quick question did they finally model the back seat in interior view if you look back?

 

[McLaren]

Facts still remains that they have lied in their marketing the game is not built from the ground up like claimed, reflections on tracks is not as good as showed in 2022 footage, digital foundry has call them out about this, all in their latest video,

Ground up was a silly marketing term that instantly got misunderstood & is now basically a meme.

you dont have to defend everything about the game just becouse you like it, with things like this games will never evolve or be as good as they can be when people turning blind eye with issues, this goes for gt7 as well, the fact is its been 6 years and just like gt7 it releases in an incomplete state

In the same sense you have to exaggerate & mislead others? Ironic.

I've already shared my concerns in the Forza section.

 

[Ande3200]

Ground up was a silly marketing term that instantly got misunderstood & is now basically a meme.

In the same sense you have to exaggerate & mislead others? Ironic.

I've already shared my concerns in the Forza section.

Most of the time i have only seen you jump on when people complain about the issues of the game,

 

[MonoTonouS]

Whatever this problem with models everyone seems to be having I'll remind you of the standard car issue of GT5 and 6. This is a literal nothing problem.

Standard models were at most 7 years old , Some were only 2 years old at the time. Forza carryovers are 17 years old at this point..

 

[Ryan81]

I don't think GT will be left behind purely because it's not a direct competitor to Forza, being on a different operating system. Many consumers have either an Xbox or a PS and are probably unlikely to buy the other console just for one game or series.
From what I've seen so far, GT's car models look prettier and more 'realistic' although FM seems to have made significant strides in that department.

The one thing I applaud T10 for is not adding loads of VGTs, developer tuned cars and duplicates. Yes, there are a handful but GT has well over 100. I think I counted 355 models in GT that excluded VGTs, PD tuners and duplicates.

 

[ImaRobot]

The list is on reddit. Keep being in denial they are using 17 year old assets though.

I'm asking you where you're reading this from. What's being in denial about that? I've literally not once denied old assets, I've even pointed them out myself and if you havent seen that then you might have some comprehension issues. Trying to find out where you guys are getting your information is like pulling teeth. You think it would be easy for you to simply supply the information asked but for whatever reason you're guys are keeping it hidden.

There won't be. The worst offenders are already well known, but folks like him & the other user I've quoted like phrasing it as if the models have not been touched at all in the last 10 years, when it's quite clear that while the models are old, T10 or whomever is still applying some sort of update to the model scan.

More or less the point I was trying to make. A lot is being said and when asked for more information its just vague responses and beating around the bush. More or less likely just some falsehoods.

For anyone doubt some of the car models in fm just watch camparsions With gt7 on youtube i saw a camparsion between both with porsche carrera gt, and its like 2 gens behind in fm, it dosen’t look that good, but to sit here and ask for the cars thats outdated just do some reserch your self, i am not wikipedia,

You made the claim, why would I gather the information for you? I'm simply asking you to support your claim, if you're unwilling to prove the things you're saying, just don't say them then.

And it dosen’t really matter if its 20,50 or 100 outdated models but the fact that they still doing it despite this talk about build from the ground up nonsense i saw through this marketing bs already a mile a way, they deserve to be called out on it, same with rt witch digital foundry already has

Yeah, never believe marketing BS from any game. Both Forza and GT are notorious for saying things that aren't true, or that are simply outright vague. That's basically a given in this day and age.

 

[Dave A]

Standard models were at most 7 years old , Some were only 2 years old at the time. Forza carryovers are 17 years old at this point..

I guarantee that they are not using 17 year old car models. That's just nonsence right there. What do you base that on? A list on reddit is not a valid answer. If you really think any of the car models in FM 2023 are XB360 assets, you are sorely mistaken.

 

[McLaren]

Most of the time i have only seen you jump on when people complain about the issues of the game,

Again, in the same way you only comment negatively towards it when you haven’t even played it.

I guarantee that they are not using 17 year old car models. That's just nonsence right there. What do you base that on? A list on reddit is not a valid answer. If you really think any of the car models in FM 2023 are XB360 assets, you are sorely mistaken.

Some of the assets do date back that far. What he’s purposely doing is acting like the cars haven’t been touched at all.

The different between GT standards & premiums when they first arrived is a huge difference compared to the R32 (old asset) & the AMG One (newer asset) of FM23.

 

[Dave A]

Some of the assets do date back that far. What he’s purposely doing is acting like the cars haven’t been touched at all.

The different between GT standards & premiums when they first arrived is a huge difference compared to the R32 (old asset) & the AMG One (newer asset) of FM23.

I can assure you, the assets themselves don't date back that far. There were no car models in the XB360 era that come close to the level of detail of the worst modelled car in Forza 2023. What people are mistakenly assuming is that the same flaws being present = the same assset. It does not, that just means the asset has been recreated based on the same reference matrial, which itself, likely has those inaccuracies.

 

[McLaren]

I can assure you, the assets themselves don't date back that far. There were no car models in the XB360 era that come close to the level of detail of the worst modelled car in Forza 2023. What people are mistakenly assuming is that the same flaws being present = the same assset. It does not, that just means the asset has been recreased based on the same reference matrial, which itself, likely has those inaccuracies.

You're right, poor wording on my part. Reference material is what's seriously outdated, but the models themselves are seeing improvements over the years.

There was even a post in the Forza section when the Catalunya/Lancer media was first shared, that showed the Lancer has changed over time.

 

[MonoTonouS]

You're right, poor wording on my part. Reference material is what's seriously outdated, but the models themselves are seeing improvements over the years.

There was even a post in the Forza section when the Catalunya/Lancer media was first shared, that showed the Lancer has changed over time.

They have just added more polygons to the models. They haven't touched any of the base geometry . There is a wealth of information on reddit. I could make a thread on this but seeing as two members who did so ( Emulaa and Frogguy) were both banned and flamed to no end for exposing the fact PD didn't completely remake a handful of cars . Why should I .

As a matter of fact I shouldn't have to justify my self . Turn ten said " Built from the ground up" not " Built up from xbox 360 era models of a 17 year old game " . There is undeniable evidence that cars like the Lancer evo 5 , Silvia S15 , R34 , M3 GTR are old outdated and inaccurate models even if turn ten slapped new textures and shaders over them and increased the poly count , It's the same model . Every model from GT5 prologue is of superior quality ( superior if they received a polygon bump) .

Further Standard models were works of art built around the PS2's limitations but were for the most part, dead on accurate and had the proportions of the car right.

I might just buy the damn game and start a thread unlike some of you who NEVER bought GT7 and would post every god damn day about how bad the game was .

 

[Famine]

I could make a thread on this but seeing as two members who did so ( Emulaa and Frogguy) were both banned and flamed to no end for exposing the fact PD didn't completely remake a handful of cars

Nobody has ever been banned for anything other than breaking this site's rules, and certainly not for "exposing" anything PD has done.

While I have no idea what a "frogguy" is, @emula - who I assume you're referring to also - is not banned.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I think each game should have something called a "dad test" - if he says it looks realistic, than it probably is. He's not going to notice the tiny details or inaccuracies, because they're too small to be a problem.

 

[ImaRobot]

I might just buy the damn game and start a thread unlike some of you who NEVER bought GT7 and would post every god damn day about how bad the game was

Whos doing that? I'm fairly sure most of the people you're responding to have owned many iterations of GT in the past, as well as currently. What's also funny is that this statement is absolutely ironic, it's literally what you're doing with Forza - You're describing yourself perfectly. How many more things are you going to pull out of your backside? Wipe off the sand. Never understood why people get so livid just because someone disagrees with them, you're getting way to overly aggressive for how simple a conversation this is, but to be honest, that's been your whole MO all over this place it seems like.

I'm glad GT7 has nice looking models, it does make it easy to make some nice wallpapers. Damn is the racing lackluster, though. Forza, while having about 5% models that are obviously dated, has always provided way better racing as a single player experience at the very least. Still have yet to even give it a shot and I'm in absolutely no rush to.

 

[McLaren]

They have just added more polygons to the models. They haven't touched any of the base geometry . There is a wealth of information on reddit.

@Dave A already explained the process. The way you've previously spoken is as if the models remained untouched over the last decade.

Reddit is a terrible source at the moment because a lot of it is people karma farming and doing what you & the other member did; vastly exaggerating issues.

As a matter of fact I shouldn't have to justify my self . Turn ten said " Built from the ground up" not " Built up from xbox 360 era models of a 17 year old game " . There is undeniable evidence that cars like the Lancer evo 5 , Silvia S15 , R34 , M3 GTR are old outdated and inaccurate models even if turn ten slapped new textures and shaders over them and increased the poly count , It's the same model . Every model from GT5 prologue is of superior quality ( superior if they received a polygon bump) .

Nobody has disputed this. You're straw manning.

The last sentence is once again, vast exaggeration.

Further Standard models were works of art built around the PS2's limitations but were for the most part, dead on accurate and had the proportions of the car right.

And yet, instantly aged as soon as the Premium models came out. Also as well, once again, we're talking about a developer who goes to lengths above the entire industry to model cars even though it becomes apparent in actual game, the models LOD gets turned down.

I might just buy the damn game and start a thread unlike some of you who NEVER bought GT7 and would post every god damn day about how bad the game was .

So, you'd be doing what you're already doing?

 

[well2thebone]

The more I play Forza, the more I realize GT7 is going to run right over it. Don't need to wait for GT8. Find a weakness and poke. Forza does nothing better.

 

[Ande3200]

Most proably wont notice the inaccurate car models in fm, but more noticed it than ever before proably becouse they said built from the ground up 100 times, a lot of reviewers and youtubers has actully talked about it, i learn to really love the detail pd put into the cars, so maybe some of expect to much of forza as well, specially with all the talk,

 

[Ohayo]

So I really wanted FM to work, it's not that I hate GT7, but I'm fed up with drip-feed and low payouts in custom races. But now when I have tried it, I know I won't be switching to FM. Builders cup and current implementation of car leveling just doesn't work for me.
Also, I saw a thread here - "chase cam is ruining GT7 for me" - and I can say the same, but about Forza. Camera sway when turning is just horrible, feels like NFS and makes the car seem to be more slidey.

Some additional observations:

• cars left on a hill won't roll down in Forza (even witch clutch pressed),
• wheel spinning has very visible state change (from slow spinning wheel to blurred one) and it looks weird,
• driving on hards in storm is far easier than in GT,
• PC optimization is horrible and game looks worse that FH5...

 

[Ral]

So I really wanted FM to work, it's not that I hate GT7, but I'm fed up with drip-feed and low payouts in custom races. But now when I have tried it, I know I won't be switching to FM. Builders cup and current implementation of car leveling just doesn't work for me.
Also, I saw a thread here - "chase cam is ruining GT7 for me" - and I can say the same, but about Forza. Camera sway when turning is just horrible, feels like NFS and makes the car seem to be more slidey.

Some additional observations:

• cars left on a hill won't roll down in Forza (even witch clutch pressed),
• wheel spinning has very visible state change (from slow spinning wheel to blurred one) and it looks weird,
• driving on hards in storm is far easier than in GT,
• PC optimization is horrible and game looks worse that FH5...

I know what you mean here. It's almost as if the car is going sideways around a corner.

I was eagerly anticipating Forza, being an avid player since FM3 with FM4 being the pinnacle, IMO.
The closer to launch it got the more concerned I became, the track list being a major kick in the teeth. I decided not to buy and to wait for the 10th to play on GP, and I am glad I did. The graphics range from average to awesome, but it's never really been my criteria for judging, more like the cherry. The real issue lies with the driving model, although I've only used the controller, it just feels so disconnected when comparing to GT7. I can't even be bothered to set up my xbox to my wheel rig (GT DD Pro). The AI is atrocious as well. GT7's AI is nothing to write home about, but it is servicable for the most part. I guess with the recent advancements in AI I was expecting more, but I don't ever remember it being this bad in previous Forzas. This is also the same with the penalty system, I was expecting a lot more.

The game feels rushed, but, unlike a lot of people, I don't believe the core is there for a good driving game. And this is after the longest development period in the franchise.

I am extremely disappointed in FM2023 but feel thankful that I have GT7, which I will be playing for the forseable future.

 

[05XR8]

I think each game should have something called a "dad test" - if he says it looks realistic, than it probably is. He's not going to notice the tiny details or inaccuracies, because they're too small to be a problem.

That was called the “whole family, friends and relatives test” when I first showed them all the Gran Turismo intro, back in ‘97. They all felt it looked realistic. Now, my family just see the graphics as the norm, for as long as they’ve seen me playing through the franchise. However, in VR, a few that have tried my headset, just can’t believe how far the game has come.

 

[B80]

Honest answer after several hours on Forza ‘23 and several weeks on GT7…..I think games like this are maybe getting left behind. Too overly familiar to be a big hardware seller anymore, too generalist to really impress sim racing fans used to iRacing and ACC.

That said, I like both games, and think Forza is an extremely good basis for (hopefully) a lot of support and building on these foundations over the next couple of years. But ultimately if you’re a gamer (ie not obsessed with the world of racing sims) then I don’t think these games have any ‘wow factor’ because they’re so predictable and haven’t really moved with the times. They’re not going to care less about newly laser scanned environments or physics tweaks are they. They’re off to play FH5 or God of War Rägnarok. The rest of us, unless you really fall in love with the online side - which seems good - something like ACC is a far more focused and satisfying sim. These big racing ‘blockbusters’ rely on having a wider impact they just don’t have in 2023.

In terms of FM vs GT, gut instinct is starting to tell me that this Forza, if they deliver with post launch support, is maybe the better foundation. GT7 has kind of backed itself into a bit of a cul de sac even if I still think it’s got the better core driving experience.

Well they seem to have gone backwards if anything, in terms of core content.

Im not sure about the figures around how long people played gt7 for in general before moving on, im not sure if they're even available, but the genre is still popular on the face of it... if you go by sales figures.

lacking curated single player content (races...) wouldn't have helped the cause. I cant imagine the average player would have much/any interest in tge hassle of creating custom races for themselves. Particularly if they coukd be bothered, but then discovered the pitiful payouts.

Plus physics or handing early on were awful for rwd/Mr cars. Coupled with the economy, not surprised only the more enthusiastic car fans stick around. Devs haven't helped themselves at all, if they wanted large numbers to remain engaged ie The sort of players that arent interested in tuning, lapping Nordschleife or wherever over and over just for the enjoyment/fun of driving.

The game hasn't been designed well at all, of they had an interest in keeping large amounts of people (non car enthusiasts/?petrol heads) engaged.

 

[Butzke]

The new forza is not going to affect GT7 at all.
It has a had a pretty poor launch, low players on Steam with horrible reviews.
Also very low on the Xbox most played list, even though its brand new and free on gamepass.

GT has such a great weather system, if they manage to bring it to all tracks, it would be a gamechanger.
Forzas weather can't compare.

 

[ImaRobot]

Most proably wont notice the inaccurate car models in fm, but more noticed it than ever before proably becouse they said built from the ground up 100 times, a lot of reviewers and youtubers has actully talked about it, i learn to really love the detail pd put into the cars, so maybe some of expect to much of forza as well, specially with all the talk,

For sure, the vast, vast majority of people wont know or wont care. Like it's always been. GT and Forza are fairly casual racing games and likely a good stepping stone for people that want to move on from arcade racers like NFS, but don't find actual sims appealing as aiming for pure realism can be offputting for most as a game. People can still get fun out of something even if there are area's of the game that other people are damning and getting absolutely livid over for whatever reason. While there's a serious lack of actual racing in GT, it's at least helping me train with a wheel and the driving feels good for the most part.

 

[chromatic9]

They had a chance but fluffed it.

 

[m355y]

Personal opinion on the two - GT7 better in terms of the core experience of driving a racing car on a track. Better handling, better physics, better feel all round. Better on a wheel. Graphics tied. Everything else better on Forza. Both 8/10 games, ie good but no longer genre defining like they once were.

 

[ScottPuss20]

GT7, Forza Motorsport and Assetto Corsa Competizione (after fiddling around with the settings) all feel about the same on a controller. ACC is obviously the most accurate because it has nuances the other 2 games don't have, but I supposed that's due to the very focused car list and partnership with SRO and the GT World Challenge. It would be interesting to see how the improvements made in ACC translate to AC2, and whether or not it will really make enough of a difference for me to go "wow, this is MILES ahead of everything" because it's just a law of diminishing returns at this point. The limit has almost been reached as far as I'm concerned - now it's just deciding what's best for you.