Winless in Over 100 Races

[Robben]

Which is fair enough
I was just suggesting that qualifying off the back of a one-off won't help the OP's cause, and I was of the opinion that "keep qualifying until you can do it consistently" is a bit duh-duh and sort of goes without saying; I guess not though.

It doesn't go without saying.. I used to have a "that'll do" mentality... set a reasonable time then get on with the racing.

 

[kilesa4568]

I don't think qualifying time has any impact on matching - I'm often top 10, and frequently see people dropped in to my race who haven't put a qualifying time in.

My advice is to always qualify as highly as you can - and use the time spent in qualifying to build your consistency/learn brake points/try different lines.

You're in the top rank though with a much smaller group of people. S/S is going to be matched with S/S isn't it?

I've had a small hiatus from racing and I'm working my way up to where I'm supposed to be and as I improve, I see my original qualifying time no longer cuts it for my next race. If I have a bad race, it comes back into range.

 

[Miguelinho]

You're in the top rank though with a much smaller group of people. S/S is going to be matched with S/S isn't it?

I've had a small hiatus from racing and I'm working my way up to where I'm supposed to be and as I improve, I see my original qualifying time no longer cuts it for my next race. If I have a bad race, it comes back into range.

I'm S/S and you'd be surprised how little other S/S guys we get matched with. At least in my experience, it really depends on car/track combo, matchmaking actually doing its thing (obviously), time of day etc. The most other S/S I've had outside of FIA is 7 or 8 for the Nürburgring 24h Gr3 daily a couple days ago. Most of the time there is 1 or 2 S/S, about 13-14 A/S and the rest B/S.

 

[Stotty]

You're in the top rank though with a much smaller group of people. S/S is going to be matched with S/S isn't it?

I've had a small hiatus from racing and I'm working my way up to where I'm supposed to be and as I improve, I see my original qualifying time no longer cuts it for my next race. If I have a bad race, it comes back into range.

Yes, I'm S/S, but I frequently see 1 or more A/S drivers with no qualifying times dropped in to my races... races which have included anything up to 8 of the top 10 Q times in Europe.

I don't think Q times have any influence on matching.

 

[kilesa4568]

I was of the opinion that "keep qualifying until you can do it consistently" is a bit duh-duh and sort of goes without saying; I guess not though.

We never stop learning and the rankings put us with people we can learn from. Consistency is safe. Learning where to scrape a tenth off each corner isn't.

 

[kilesa4568]

Yes, I'm S/S, but I frequently see 1 or more A/S drivers with no qualifying times dropped in to my races... races which have included anything up to 8 of the top 10 Q times in Europe.

I don't think Q times have any influence on matching.

Isn't that matchmaking based on the SRS to make the numbers up though? If they're safe, they're safe to run with with anyone.

I've got another abandoned account where I'm B/S already and I've been matched with A/S and S/S drivers in races. That's with and without a qualifying time. That's where I thought the safety ratings trump qualifying, unless of course, you're in those groups and have a qualifying time to compare to.

Sorry for double post.

 

[Robben]

Kilesa

Isn't that matchmaking based on the SRS to make the numbers up though? If they're safe, they're safe to run with with anyone.

I've got another abandoned account where I'm B/S already and I've been matched with A/S and S/S drivers in races. That's with and without a qualifying time. That's where I thought the safety ratings trump qualifying, unless of course, you're in those groups and have a qualifying time to compare to.

Sorry for double post.

As far as I can tell matchmaking is DR > SR > qualifying time

 

[Stotty]

If Q time had any influence over matching, I would not expect to get A/S drivers with no Q time in my races...

Let's assume if Q time is part of matching, and it goes SR->DR->Q time.

I'm 99 SR and somewhere around 67k DR points, and usually have top 10 (or just outside) Q time... so I'm always going to be in the 1st group matched by the system.

The only way that would be possible for me to be matched against A/S level drivers left with Q times is if there are less than say 10 A/S level drivers in the matching pool... or if there are very highly ranked A/S level (on DR points), that haven't bothered to qualify.

I think it simply SR -> DR. Q time has no influence.

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

I have 4 wins, 2 poles and 7 fastest laps from 36 races.

I have a feeling this isn't good but hearing some peoples stories on here I might not actually be that bad.

Once of the worst things I find about this is when I'm following a car closely and I'm trying to turn a corner, the radar shows I'm close to a car but not enough to touch it but then I hear a bump sound on the game so I end up thinking I've hit someone.

 

[Robben]

I have 4 wins, 2 poles and 7 fastest laps from 36 races.

I have a feeling this isn't good but hearing some peoples stories on here I might not actually be that bad.

Once of the worst things I find about this is when I'm following a car closely and I'm trying to turn a corner, the radar shows I'm close to a car but not enough to touch it but then I hear a bump sound on the game so I end up thinking I've hit someone.

When did you start racing on Sport mode? If you started late (i.e after the game had been out for a month or more) then you would be matched with people who were D or C rating and therefore win easily. Those who start in week 1 are being matched with people who may hold category C or D but be S or A quality...

 

[_ApexPredator]

Yes, I'm S/S, but I frequently see 1 or more A/S drivers with no qualifying times dropped in to my races... races which have included anything up to 8 of the top 10 Q times in Europe.

I don't think Q times have any influence on matching.

In one 16-20 player race you're matched with 8 of the 10 fastest drivers in Europe, and you don't think that Q times have any influence on the matchmaking? :S Pretty big coincidence otherwise isn't it?

 

[Robben]

In one 16-20 player race you're matched with 8 of the 10 fastest drivers in Europe, and you don't think that Q times have any influence on the matchmaking? :S Pretty big coincidence otherwise isn't it?

He also said 1 or 2 drop in with no qualifying time in these races. It is because they all hold the top positions of DR.

 

[Stotty]

In one 16-20 player race you're matched with 8 of the 10 fastest drivers in Europe, and you don't think that Q times have any influence on the matchmaking? :S Pretty big coincidence otherwise isn't it?

No, it's just the correlation between being fast and having a lot of DR points.

I race a fairly small group of S/S drivers on a regular basis - these are the same drivers I've been racing since very early in the game, and who have moved up the rankings at a similar rate. They have c.60k+ DR points, which is pretty rare.

The drivers dropped in to the races with no Q times are A/S, not S/S.

 

[_ApexPredator]

Fair enough.
Hopefully it won't take me too long to catch up with the S/S lot, and hopefully I can bump into you one day and try to keep up to see all the places I'm losing time

 

[kilesa4568]

I think it simply SR -> DR. Q time has no influence.

I think your group skews the picture as it's so small and it needs to dip into lower ranks to make the numbers up. The one constant I saw as a B/S was the safety rating and that often put me into a higher group than my DRB suggested. Qualifying had an effect and obviously I was way down the grid because of it.

I'm probably wrong but what I saw was that my first race back as a C, I was a couple of seconds quicker than 2nd. Won the race and I remained a C but I was matched against mainly DRB's but with the same safety rating and my quali lap was only half a second quicker. Got punted off in the next race and had a nightmare making progress. Loads of contact from here there and everywhere that dropped me to a SRB and I must have lost a chunk of DR as my qualifying lap time increased from 2nd in the next race again. Everyone was a SRB in that race but the qualifying time was the deciding factor amongst DRD's and C's.

Perhaps @Famine could shed some light on it?

 

[Famine]

Perhaps @Famine could shed some light on it?

Matchmaking? Seems to be SR as the most significant component, but after that it's tough to determine what it uses - I've had lobbies with six qualifying times covering 20 seconds (from good to woeful), and then six non-qualifiers. I've also had lobbies with DR A-E. Basically no pattern for qualifying times or DR that I can tell.

 

[FKAustria1911]

Kilesa
As far as I can tell matchmaking is DR > SR > qualifying time

I doubt that, many times I had a qualifying time that put me in one of the top 5 starting positions in the top group (which is not that hard for race A as most of the pros seem to always do the Gr. 3 and Gr. 4 race) and as soon as my SR drops below 90 I will not be matched to the top group anymore.

Coming back to the original poster here my recommendations:

• Practice a lot, do a lot of qualifying laps until you are happy with your time and consistently can do laps that are close to your top time (I disagree that it's necessary to always be able to be within 0.5s of your top time however. Race pace usually is way slower, I'd say on average you will at least be able to keep your position if you can consistently lap ~1s slower than your top time).
• Also practice the braking point for turn one of lap one, in the race on the first lap you will probably approach turn one at a lower speed than you are used to, so you have a different braking point and it's good to know where it is. So simulate crossing the finish line at the speed the auto drive will have in the race at lap one.
• Be confident in yourself, don't let the cars behind you play mind games with yourself.
• Check the power diagram in car settings in qualifying. It depends on the car, but especially the ones with turbo engines tend to lose power with high RPMs, so you want to shift in the optimum RPM range. e.g. in the Supra one make race a few days ago you could gain quite a bit by shifting way before the max, while pretty much everyone else shifts at the max - even the top qualifying drivers very often don't get this right. So I always check the diagram (it's in car settings where the % points for the BoP settings are displayed) and then check at what speed I have what RPMs and if I shift where do the RPMs drop to. e.g. the BMW M4 Gr. 4 has a huge optimum range between 5500 and 7500 RPM (most other cars don't have that) so you absolutely want to shift before you reach 7500 RPM, and you'd also want to look that the RPMs don't fall below 5500 after shifting (in the M4 there is no danger of that). The Ferrari 458 on the other hand needs as much RPMs as possible before shifting.
  In the Gr. 3 and Gr. 4 you can't gain much with this, as the max RPM are already set pretty much to the optimum range, but for the one make races there are some cars where you can gain quite a lot from this. In the Supra one make race a few days ago in Tokyo you could gain about 0.2s on the long straight alone only by knowing where to shift (while most others apparently don't).
• That being said still study how the top drivers shift in the curves and out of the curves. Even they shift incorrectly at the straights, but usually know the optimum gear through the curves. An example is the S at the bottom in Yamagiwa, usually you're using one or two gears higher than the game suggests to you through there.
• Also know what are the critical sections of the track, where most time is won or lost, again for example on Yamagiwa the S at the bottom is by far the most important part, if you screw this up you have quite a bit of uphill acceleration phase at well below your optimum speed, which will make you lose a lot of time.
• Therefore be especially careful at the critical parts of the track in the race, and if you are not under pressure try to enter the curve rather safely and focus on your exit speed. Most critical parts of the tracks are the ones that require a high exit speed, braking late at the entry doesn't help a lot, mostly it only increases your risk of screwing up for small gains only (for S/S races yes it could be a deciding factor, but for everyone else... forget it).
• Also do some practice regarding how to enter the curves in the race when you are under pressure. One example is the south curve on Miyabi. In qualifying you will probably want to enter the curve rather from the outside for best lap times, in the race however when someone is following you within let's say 0.5s then you absolutely don't want to take this line, you will take a much more inside line to defend your position then, so also learn how to use this line in an as much efficient as possible way.
  There are always some curves where no one (or hardly anyone, there are always some idiots, but not much you can do about that) will try to overtake you and others where they for sure will try - like on Miyabi, no one in their right mind will try to overtake you through the fast S before the south curve, but sure as hell they will try in the south curve if they are close.
• I don't agree that you should do oval races, especially if you're easily intimidated by the cars behind you. The oval races are almost only about drafting, so if other cars following you closely and requiring you to defend your position in a tough way are psychologically demanding for you then stay away from those races for the time being, this will only frustrate you and cost you even more nerves.
• Also stay away from races with too slow cars, as also there will be too much drafting.
• However I still strongly recommend the one make race A for you. In the Gr. 4 and Gr. 3 races you mostly have to race people that have lots and lots and lots of experience with these cars and their speed, the braking points, because most of them have done dozens and dozens of races in these cars. In the one make on the other hand everyone is just trying to learn the one make car, as each one make car has different speeds, different braking points etc.
• So what you want is race A with a car that is not too easy to handle and not too slow (to prevent too much drafting of the guys behind you) and a track that is also not too easy. Practice a lot in this car and on this track, be confident in yourself, then you will have a good grid position, and if you consistently put somewhat good lap times chances are the other cars won't be able to follow you.
• Obviously it would be best for you to start from pole position. If you do you probably will have pole more than once and chances are in at least one of the races the #2 driver will get in a fight with the #3 driver and it will be smooth sailing to your first win then

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

When did you start racing on Sport mode? If you started late (i.e after the game had been out for a month or more) then you would be matched with people who were D or C rating and therefore win easily. Those who start in week 1 are being matched with people who may hold category C or D but be S or A quality...

My first win came on November 15th in a daily race.

 

[kilesa4568]

Matchmaking? Seems to be SR as the most significant component, but after that it's tough to determine what it uses - I've had lobbies with six qualifying times covering 20 seconds (from good to woeful), and then six non-qualifiers. I've also had lobbies with DR A-E. Basically no pattern for qualifying times or DR that I can tell.

I've had a couple of races like that (back in November) but figured the matchmaking was acting up at the time. I haven't seen it since.

I've noticed SR decides the grid (with lower exceptions, never higher) and DR is incidental to the lap time set. The further up the DR bar you are, whichever that is, the more likely you are to set a better time than someone lower down. If I'm a C in my example but setting times quicker than a lot of B's, my qualifying is always the deciding factor, not my DR.

I'm only about 30 races in so like I said, I'm probably wrong but I'm going to keep an eye on it. Maybe if I drop a DR group again, I'll put a good hour or two into qualifying to see how high I can get matched up.

@FKAustria1911 Great tips.👍

 

[John Crellin]

Ihave been thinking about this and and i think matchmaking might work something like this:

A list is generated and everyone is ordered by their Sr rank

That list is then further tiered by Dr values

The number of races = the number of racers im a tier / the grid size

Races are then populated 1 position at a time (ie if there are 3 races then top three are each placed in a separate race then the next three are placed so rank 1 races rank 4)

once a tier is emptied the matching continues until all the slots in the first tiered races are full

The grids are then ordered by q time


What am I missing?

 

[FKAustria1911]

Ihave been thinking about this and and i think matchmaking might work something like this:
A list is generated and everyone is ordered by their Sr rank
That list is then further tiered by Dr values
The number of races = the number of racers im a tier / the grid size
Races are then populated 1 position at a time (ie if there are 3 races then top three are each placed in a separate race then the next three are placed so rank 1 races rank 4)
once a tier is emptied the matching continues until all the slots in the first tiered races are full
The grids are then ordered by q time
What am I missing?

I think SR > DR is right, the theory with 1 position for 1 tier (drivers #1 and #4 to race 1, drivers #2 and #5 to race 2 and so on) cannot be right tho. There are a few people I often meet in the daily race A (and I believe it is the top tier A race) and when I meet them then I meet them all the time, like 10 races in a row. With your theory the distribution would be somewhat random and I couldn't meet them that often.

My personal theory is this:

• First it is clustered by SR blocks, but only if a sufficient number of drivers is available for the cluster.
• The division is in steps of 10, so with SR 89 you are in a different cluster than when you have 90-99
• Then it will apply the DR for the tiers within the cluster
• Finally the qualifying time equals the starting position.

Not too sure about the DR/qualifying time part, if enough S/S drivers were there then there would be exclusive S/S races, the S drivers are reporting this differently tho. Might be due to an insufficient number of S drivers or maybe the qualifying plays more role than only the starting position after all.

Maybe it is just some ranking based on a number produced by a formula that uses SR, DR and qualifying time.
I would bet a lot that the SR has the highest weight in the formula tho.

 

[John Crellin]

• The division is in steps of 10, so with SR 89 you are in a different cluster than when you have 90-99

I dont think it clusters by 10, because i definitely get more SR S matches when im at SR 79 than at 71

There are a few people I often meet in the daily race A (and I believe it is the top tier A race) and when I meet them then I meet them all the time, like 10 races in a row. With your theory the distribution would be somewhat random and I couldn't meet them that often.

Not really, it all depends on how many people enter that are above you in DR. If the pool of SR A and SR S doesnt change between races then, in theory, the same matches should occur. the races will more likely shuffle in the numerically massive B ranks than in the small A and S ranks

 

[psyller911]

Yes, I’m that bad. I drive the courses well enough, but it’s a struggle to balance sportsmanship and competitiveness. I cave under pressure, especially when people are tailing. And sometimes, I’m too afraid to overtake. It’s gotten to the point that I just pull off to the side because I anticipate being rammed by a few aggressive drivers. Is anyone else in the same boat, or is winning a race a lot easier than it seems?

I had the same problem, but with decent amount of practice on each track with gr 3 & 4 cars is one big help. The other important thing when im racing is to not worry or panic, because soon as i start that, my times are going downhill, or i might crash very easily. Also, take more focus on being consistent, and "safe" and try to wait until someone make a mistake ahead of you, instead of pushing like crazy.

 

[Skiddy]

Practice, practice practice..and then practice some more.

 

[CHEN255]

About 50 races in and no win yet, probably not ever and I'm ok with that because I just enjoy the participation and racing those around me. Its a bit like real life racing, many drivers will never win a race.

 

[Sofia Speed]

Yes, I’m that bad. I drive the courses well enough, but it’s a struggle to balance sportsmanship and competitiveness. I cave under pressure, especially when people are tailing. And sometimes, I’m too afraid to overtake. It’s gotten to the point that I just pull off to the side because I anticipate being rammed by a few aggressive drivers. Is anyone else in the same boat, or is winning a race a lot easier than it seems?

No stress!!
There is no problem at all with no wins! They will come!
Just remember of Ruben Barrichello!
He raced F1 for 18 years, that’s about 322 races (according to the game) but he only won 11 and made the podium 68 times!

 

[SRT DK Racing]

dont know iff anyone mentioned it , but for my own part I learned a lot by watching the top 10 guys laps , so that is 1 thing I would susgest you to do and be in lobby`s with guys that are faster than yourself , that learned me a lot to , you could for example join GTP_WRS in their weekly chalenges , they are all ready with advise to you and will answer your questions with a smile good luck with it all .....

 

[Satomiblood]

Here’s a video from a race this afternoon. I still need to work on my turn speed. I’m losing a lot of distance on some of the more technical turns.

 

[rex1825]

...winning and getting your ranks up was much easier when game came out, it is much harder now, I was S/S, then I got screwed few times in my Sr, so I got down to C, and trying to fix it, I was driving slowly watching my back mostly, and got now B/S, but it seems as if I am stuck to B lol in Dr... it goes up, but so slow, even when winning on clean race...

 

[Satomiblood]

And here’s another. I finished 2nd this time. I feel like I could've overtaken the 1st place driver, but again, I’m really slow on my turns.