World's Most Underrated Cars

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the_undrtaker89
Yeah it is underrated maybe cause it comes from a really pathetic company.

Got to agree here... Saturn takes European GM designs and kill them. They took the sleek and sexy Opel Vectra's design and transformed it into the hideous L300. Even it's interior looks like a pick-up truck instead of an euro-design sedan. Simply ridiculous.

I bet if Saturn sold the Vectra in US, with it's sexy flowing lines and beautiful interior, it would sell like cake. Worked with the Ford Focus...
 
Vectra and sexy in the same sentence?

Well I never!
 
The Saturn Vue may be quick, but I wouldn't be caught dead in it, or any Saturn for that matter :yuck:
Whoever styles their cars sure knows how to make them ugly.
 
Most people see the Impreza as a mad WRC car, but miss it's potential as a reliable but fun family car.
 
I think that the MG ZT V8 and the ZS 180 are underrated - the ZT has a Mustang engine, and the ZS 180 is acknowledged by far to be a great-handling car. (But try telling that to bloody Top Gear)
 
Top Gear like it. It's in the cool bit of the cool wall. The KV6 engine gets special mention.
 
Let's revive a thread that's been dead for almost a year... :D 👍

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Before reading this post (or at least part of it), I'd recommend reading (or at least skimming) these two articles...
http://www.intl-m-100group.org/6point3/magazines/caranddriver_oct1969/index.html
and
http://www.intl-m-100group.org/6point9/brochure/brockyates/index.html
----

It seems that a lot of people don't give Mercedes in general enough credit as performance cars. In many places outside of the U.S., Mercedes are quite ubiquitous; they have a position as a status symbol in this country primarily because we only get the higher end models.

The history of fast Mercedes dates back to at least 1909, possibly earlier. But 1909 saw the construction of the Blitzen Benz. Capable of reaching 125mph, and belting out a whopping (for the time) 200hp, the Benz was not only the fastest automobile in the world at the time, it was also faster than any airplane that had been built up until that point.

Moving forward to after the 1924 merger of Daimler and Benz, the 1930s, we have the 500K and the later 540K. With 160-180hp on tap, they were some of the fastest production cars of their day; the only cars that had any hope of keeping up with them were a handful of Duesenbergs.

The next really significant Mercedes performance car was the 300SL Gullwing, the racing version of which came out in 1952 (or 1953, I'm not sure which; Supercars says 1952, but I seem to remember it being '53). The racing version of the 300SL was, to the best of my knowledge, the single most successful racing car of all time, winning every race it ever entered except one-the first one-in which it came in second. The car was years ahead of its time, with a spaceframe chassis (thus the need for gullwing doors in the coupe) and an OHC inline 6 with mechanical fuel injection. Supercars quotes a 0-60 time of 8.5s, a 1/4 mile of 16s, and a top speed of 146 for the roadgoing Coupe; other sources have said that the 0-60 time can be anywhere from 6.9-8.5 seconds and the top speed anywhere between 130 and 170mph (don't quote me on the top speed figures tho) based on rear end ratios. Both the gullwing and the later roadster version (which had more power than the coupe did) were amongst the fastest cars of their day. The only serious competition they had that I'm aware of is the fuel injected Corvettes, the supercharged Thunderbirds, and the first Jaguar E-Types.

After the 300SL, Mercedes kind of fell flat on its face for a number of years. Throughout most of the 1960s they continued to make the safe, practical, reliable cars that Mercedes had always been known for, but they didn't have anything that was really, really fast in their lineup. Their top engine was a detuned version of the I6 in the 300SL, and put out something like 175hp. This was enough to propel the 300SEL sedan from a standstill to 60mph in 11-13s (depending on if you had one with a stick or an auto). That's not bad for the 1960s, but it's not anything to write home about either really. This changed in 1968 (I believe... god I wish I had my book on postwar Mercedes production models handy) with the introduction of the 300SEL 6.3. With the 6.3, Mercedes took the 6.3L, 300HP V8 out of their 600SEL Limousine and shoehorned it into the 300SEL body. The end result was a car that could take on many American muscle cars without breaking a sweat, and could still carry 5 people. 0-60 times seem to vary widely from car-to-car with the 6.3, with road tests of the day reporting anywhere from 5.1s with 3 passengers (Motor Trend, June 1968) to 6.5s for a Road & Track article. Whether this is just due to different test conditions, various test equipment, different drivers, one engine being more broken in than the other, or a significant variation in power output between 6.3s, I'm not sure. But it's safe to assume that a 6.3 in good condition is good for a sub 6 second 0-60 run, and a particularly healthy example might break 5s flat. Reported top speeds also vary widely, but the factory quoted 135 or 136, although the lowest I've seen reported is only 131. The lowest published quarter mile time I've seen is in one of my Mercedes books (which I don't have handy) and is something like 13.8 seconds. That's a fast car even by today's standards. Back in 1968 it could take on just about anything else on the road.

Beyond straight line performance, the 6.3 provided decent handling, thanks to an independent suspension. Unfortunately, the suspension also proved to be the downfall of used 6.3s (and regular 300SELs and SEs); it is an air suspension, and the bags don't age very well. The problem has since been solved with stronger aftermarket bags, but that one you see sitting on a used car lot that's drooping at all 4 corners because the airbags are shot is not the steal you think it is... fixing that suspension is an expensive proposition.

Back on topic, shortly after the demise of the 6.3 came the introduction of the 450SEL 6.9. This car used the same block as the 6.3, punched out to 6.9 liters. It was introduced to the U.S. market in 1977 with a M.S.R.P. of ~$40k (that's 1977 $$, not 2005 $$). The 6.9 was strangled by the emissions standards of the 1970s, and the US cars managed only 250hp. However, they also put out 380ft-lbs of torque. They were not quite as fast as the 6.3- 0-60mph came up in 7.1s with a top speed of 140 or 145- but having driven my dad's many times, I can testify to the fact that it is still a fast car. Especially for the era when it was made. In fact, the car is essentially on par (we're talking identical acceleration figures, +/- 0.2s to 100mph) with my car, which is an '86 560SEL. Thanks to the 3 speed transmission (1st is good for 65mph) the car feels sluggish until it gets up to about 40; get on it on the freeway at 80 and the car just ****ing GOES, and it does it without even bothering to downshift into 2nd. The 6.9 also handles EXTREMELY well for a 4400lb car. It has no shocks or springs in the conventional sense, you see. Both are replaced with a hydropneumatic strut at each wheel. The suspension is fully independent, and the hydropneumatics make it a semi-active suspension; the car exhibits far less body roll in corners than my 560SEL does (in fact, it exhibits very little body roll period), and it just responds faster than the 560, despite weighing several hundred pounds more.

The 6.9 was discontinued in 1981, and that was the end of high performance Mercedes in the U.S. for a few years. Europe got the 500SEL, SL, and SEC but they were never officially imported into this country; that doesn't mean you don't see them over here- there are a whole bunch that people unhappy with the performance of the 380s had imported- but they're all grey market cars. Fast Mercedes returned to the U.S. for 1986 with the 560SEL, SL, and SEC. The 560s had a 5.6L version of the all-aluminum M117 V8 that was rated for 238hp in the U.S. cars and almost 300 in the European cars. Now, I should point out that the U.S. rating is widely considered to be highly pessimistic. The European 560s did 0-60mph in 6.9 seconds; the U.S. cars did it in 7 seconds flat. Considering that the European cars are known to put out about 290hp, 265-280hp is a reasonable guesstimate of the ACTUAL power output of the U.S. cars.

Up until the introduction of the BMW M5 in 1987, the 560SEL was the fastest production sedan in the world. 0-60mph in 7s, top speed of 140mph (possibly 155 on the European models although I'm not 100% sure of that). Quarter mile time for the U.S. cars was 15.5s @ 90mph as recorded by Car & Driver in July 1987. I took mine to the drag strip last fall and managed a 15.7 @ 89, BUT that was with a reaction time of 0.45; with a decent reaction time it should be capable of a 15.2 or 15.3. This was fast enough that a 5 speed 1987 IROC-Z couldn't keep up (also noted by Car & Driver). Top speed was at least 140mph- Car & Driver recorded 140mph for a U.S. car but I've seen speedo pics from euro and american cars @ 160mph... and I highly doubt the speedo is 20mph off, as I got nailed for doing 60 in a 35 (I was in a hurry) and the speedo read exactly 60mph the whole time... :sick:

The 560 handles fairly well too... it exhibits vast amounts of body roll, but it stays stuck to the tune of 0.80gs (recorded, again, in July 1987 by Car & Driver). Should you choose to ignore the body roll and push the car to its absolute limit, you will find that, to quote Car & Driver (again), it "has a taste for lurid, tail-out slides". And I've confirmed that on numerous occasions with mine. Push it hard enough and it'll reward you with fairly benign, controllable oversteer. Take your foot off the gas and it snaps back into line instantly.

The successor to the W126 chassis (1981-1991 SEC/SEL), the W140, was roundly criticized by the automotive press for being a fat, overweight pig of a car. I won't dispute that- it weighs in at like 5500lbs- BUT the V12 powered 600SEL (later renamed to S600) with 389hp, while heavy, was still fast. 0-60 in 5.9s is not bad at all for a 5500lb vehicle. I can't speak to the capabilities of the 140 chassis 600s beyond that, except to say that the '94 S500 my grandparents owned was easily the most solidly built car I've ever seen.

This, of course, brings us to the present day lineup, which you guys already know all about. I didn't touch on every fast Mercedes-not even close-but those are the ones that impress me the most. Other notables include the 190E 2.3-16v (and 2.5-16v in Europe) and the early '90s 500E and the 450SLC 5.0 was a quick car for its day as well. If you've read this far, you obviously have an interest in these machines, and I'd recommend you read the two articles on the 6.3 and 6.9 I linked at the beginning of this post if you haven't already. If you don't "get" why I love these cars to death after reading them, you may be beyond all hope.

The links again:
http://www.intl-m-100group.org/6point3/magazines/caranddriver_oct1969/index.html
and
http://www.intl-m-100group.org/6point9/brochure/brockyates/index.html

Now that we've got performance out of the way...

What else is it that makes Mercedes the best cars in the world (imo)? Reliability and (in some cases), luxury. While build quality seems to have declined, especially on the cheaper models, since the merger with Chrysler, it's still generally quite good; Mercedes is the 6th most reliable brand of new car in the U.S. according to J.D. Power (or it was the last time I checked). And a well-maintained Mercedes will run for easily 200k miles; in fact, I would consider it to be highly ABnormal if it didn't hit 300k. 500k+ is not unheard of (or terribly uncommon) for gasoline engines, and diesel Mercedes have covered >1,000,000 miles.

As for luxury... my car is an '86; it has heated power seats in the front and the back (the back seat moves forward and backwards, and each side can be heated independently of the other) as well as the usual power steering, locks, a/c, blahblahblah. Seat heaters were offered on the 6.9, in fact, in the 1970s. Today's S class has heated and cooled power leather seats (front and rear) with a massage function in at least the front seats (I'd have to check the back seats in my grandparents' S600 tho, I don't remember if they have that feature as well), Bose audio (which is quite good, although not bass-y enough for my taste), GPS navigation, 4 zone climate control (driver, front passenger, left rear passenger, right rear passenger) and a 5 or 7 speed auto (depending on the engine you choose). The 600s and AMG 65s have ABC (Active Body Control) on the suspension, which is not radically different from the system on the 6.9, albeit significantly improved. The other S Classes have air suspensions. They have what Mercedes calls Distronic, which is a radar-based cruise control system that will slow the car down and alert you when there's a car in front of you that's going slower than you are (I'm 90% sure Mercedes was the first to market with this system). If the car senses that you might be about to make a panic stop, it ups the pressure in the braking system and moves the calipers closer to the discs to minimize stopping distance. And, of course it has GPS, traction control, stability control, and eleventybillion airbags.

The thing with Mercedes is that while they may not be the fastest cars in the world, they may not be the best handling cars in the world, or the most reliable, or the best looking, or the cheapest. They may not EXCEL at any one thing; what they DO excel at though, is doing 90% of the things they do better than 90% of the cars on the road. In other words, they excel at doing well in as many areas as possible, without necessarily being the best in any of them (although there are times when they are).

There's really only one car company that can match Mercedes move for move- BMW (of course). And supporters of both marques could argue until the end of time about which one is "better". Ultimately though, it comes down to personal preference. More often than not, the cars are so evenly matched that the deciding factors are things like styling and brand preference. I like both, I have no problem driving either one, but I grew up riding in, playing around, and working on Mercedes, and ultimately, that's what I prefer.
 
The Jaguar S Type R is often overlooked in the Supersaloon stakes.
 
Ford Focus 1.8 TDI in pantha black, from my experiance of riding as a passenger it is awsome, acceleration is suprisingly good, corners beautifully yet no one likes it.?


also Vauxhall vectra, nice interior and sharp business like looks.

nearly all my dads previous cars aare underated imo.

ford cortina
ford escort
ford focus estate
vauxhall astra estate
ford mondeo
ford focus (one i described above)
ford mondeo new style
vauxhall astra coupe
ford focus estate (agen)
vauxhall vectra 2.2 elegance
and now the amazingly dull and deservadly underrated peugeot 406 estate
 
The Chrysler Crossfire is a vastly underrated car. People usually pass on it with its 215hp rated V6 and SLK230 based chassis, but it's an incredibly fun to drive car with surprisingly good roadholding and stand-up acceleration.

0-60 mph: 6.4 sec
0-100 mph: 16.1 sec
Quarter Mile: 14.7 sec @ 96 mph
Skidpad: .89g
Top Speed: 148 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 113 ft
Slalom Speed: 67.5 mph
 
Maybe it's because along with the Vue the corssfire is uglah. I think the 2000 Galant VR4 is a pretty underrated car considering most people don't know it exsisted. When people think GVR4 they think of a 4g63 in a 90's 4 door. Not a Twin Turbo V6 makin 310HP with AWD/AWS/AYC in a fun mitsu family car.
 
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I suppose, because I've always been impressed as all get out by the looks of the Crossfire. It reminds me of great classic sports cars like the Pegaso or the 166MM and 340 America Ferraris.

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Pegaso

1406-1.jpg

Ferrari 166MM

340america4.jpg

Ferrari 340 America

But then again, it takes a classic sports car enthusiast (I'm an MGB owner myself) to draw parallels between a modern sports car and the classics that inspired it. Personally speaking, it's the damned soulless Mercedes-Benz version with its Jimmy Durante snout and stumpy tail end that's the fugly one in the family.
 
The 1973, and 74 Pontiac Firebird SD455 are underrated by many, partly since they are easily mistaken as a lesser Firebird.

""Super Duty" was the name Pontiac used on its high performance (i.e. race ready) engines in the early 1960's, and the Super Duty 455 was a street legal race prepped engine. All SD-455's were hand assembled, and had a reinforced block, special cam shaft, aluminum pistons, oversize valves and header-like exhaust manifolds. Pontiac rated the SD-455 engines at a stout 310 bhp and 390 lb-ft, but experts agreed that it was closer to 370 bhp."
455 (SD) V8 310 bhp @ 4000 rpm, 390 lb-ft @ 3600 rpm.
Performance: SD455/310: 1/4 mile in 13.5 seconds @ 104 mph
(www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/pontiac-firebird/pontiac-firebird-history-2.shtml)

Handling, although not excellent, is greatly improved over cars of the 60's.

These cars can be attained for (relatively) cheap prices, with average cars going for $12,000(1973) and $15,500(1974), prices quoted from Hemmings 2005 Price Guide.


I also agree with Lethalchem, in saying that the Buick Regal GN/GNX are also underrated, although it is becoming less so as people find out about them.
 
Citroen DS
Clever aerodynamics, self levelling suspension and headlamps that swivel to guide you through bends. This is the stuff that car makers brag about today. But the Citroen DS had them in 1955. It was also the first car to have a semi-automatic gearbox, with a switch on the gear lever operating the clutch. The self levelling suspesion was great too, it could carry on driving even after loosing a wheel. Yes it could drive fine on three wheels!!!

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Saturn has been universally panned for a long time because the ENGINES fell to crap...VUE is getting bashed by both Performance and reliability gurus...of course, the reliability boys still give the thumbs up to accords and not much else. the "preformance" guys are busy drooling over huge engines and supercars...

Underrated? I can't think of ANY car that isn't either bragged about or panned as "not good enough" by one group orr another. as one of those poor suckers who gets the beat up leftovers that teens and 20 somethings pound 100k miles or 160k KM into in five minutes, I'm more worried about how much it's gonna cost to replace the badly worn components that should have been replaced almost immediately...stuff like brakes worn down to the rotors, tires worn down to cords, parking breaks seized solid, fuel and brake lines that have rotted away to nothing, engines that leak around someones improv gasket...scaly batteries, covered in lead oxide crystals, blown bulbs all over the place, headlights that were never aligned...cracked windsheilds/windscreens...you get my point. the only thing ever maintenenced when I get them is the mint condition radio...a stocker pulled out of the car the second some kid bought it, and replaced with a mile of speaker wire, an amp, a 6 disk, and the cause of the cracked windsheild due to bass application...
 
Almost all of the older acura's and some of the current. Only the MDX and RSX are rated correctly.

The CL was WAY WAY under and the TL is starting to gain ground but not quite yet.

The older M45 was a kick ass ride.
 
M5Power
They're also both as outdated as piss. Even I'd rather have a BMW than a 9-5 or an S80. I mean, resale on an S80 is at the absolute bottom of the European car spectrum. So that said, if I were looking for a car for $15000 and cared about nothing but spec, I don't even think I'd consider anything but an S80 T6.

Incidentally, did you know they're both slower to sixty than a 2004 Saturn Vue V6? Yep - it's true. This:


Saturn Vue V6, oh yeah. 👍

Its still a piece of crap Saturn. Try getting in an accident in it. How pathetic is GM...now they have to buy their engines from Honda to have a decent powerplant?

are the saturn body panels still plastic? that was always a big drawback in my opinion. So they dont dent when you kick em.....how do they crash? Ive seen a few wrecked ones, wasnt pretty.
 
Phantom2
Its still a piece of crap Saturn. Try getting in an accident in it. How pathetic is GM...now they have to buy their engines from Honda to have a decent powerplant?

are the saturn body panels still plastic? that was always a big drawback in my opinion. So they dont dent when you kick em.....how do they crash? Ive seen a few wrecked ones, wasnt pretty.


I have to say that the Vue is butt ugly and that the looks alone would rule that car out for me entirely. Whats the point of going fast if you will look like a granny as you do it. #
I am amazed however that they got a car like that with 2wd to get a 0-60 time of 6.6 secs.
 
M5Power
They're also both as outdated as piss. Even I'd rather have a BMW than a 9-5 or an S80. I mean, resale on an S80 is at the absolute bottom of the European car spectrum. So that said, if I were looking for a car for $15000 and cared about nothing but spec, I don't even think I'd consider anything but an S80 T6.

Incidentally, did you know they're both slower to sixty than a 2004 Saturn Vue V6? Yep - it's true. This:

04130051990007LRG.jpg


is quicker than

04903061990001LRG.jpg


and

04904101990007LRG.jpg


In fact, the Saturn Vue V6 (0-60 in 6.6 seconds on the 2WD version) is quicker than practically everything. Its achievements:

- the third-quickest SUV of all time (behind the 1992-1993 GMC Typhoon and 2003-present Porsche Cayenne Turbo)
- the fifth-quickest front-drive vehicle on the market (behind the Dodge SRT-4, Acura TL, Nissan Altima V6 manual, and Pontiac Grand Prix GTP)
- as quick as the Audi A8L (330hp V8), Chrysler Crossfire automatic (215hp V6), Honda S2000 (240hp 4-cylinder), Jaguar XJ8 (294hp V8), Jaguar XK8 (294hp V8), Mazda RX-8 manual (238hp rotary), Mercedes ML500 (288hp V8), Mercedes SL500 (302hp V8), Porsche Boxster automatic (228hp 6-cylinder), and Volkswagen Golf R32 (240hp V6)
- quicker than the Acura RSX Type-S, Audi A4 3.0, Audi A6 4.2, Audi TT 180, BMW 325, BMW 330 automatic, BMW 525i, BMW 530i, BMW X3 3.0i, BMW X5 4.4i, BMW Z4 2.5i, Buick Regal GS, Cadillac CTS manual, Cadillac SRX V8, Chevrolet Impala SS, Chevrolet Monte Carlo Supercharged SS, Chevrolet SSR, Chrysler 300 Touring, Chrysler GT Cruiser, Dodge Durango Hemi, Dodge Magnum SE 3.5, Dodge Ram Hemi, Ford Thunderbird, GMC Sierra Denali, Honda Accord V6, Infiniti FX45, Infiniti G35 automatic sedan, Jaguar S-Type 4.2, Jaguar X-Type 3.0, Lexus GS430, Lexus IS300, Lincoln LS V8, Mazda 6s, Mazda RX-8 automatic, Mercedes C230, Mercedes C240, Mercedes C320, Mercedes CLK320, Mercedes G500, Mercedes ML350, Mercedes S430, Mercedes SLK320, Mini Cooper S, Mitsubishi Eclipse V6, Nissan Altima V6 automatic, Nissan Maxima, Pontiac Bonneville GXP, Porsche Cayenne, Porsche Cayenne S, Saab 9-3, Saab 9-5, Subaru Baja Turbo, Subaru Forester Turbo, Subaru Impreza WRX automatic, Subaru Outback 3.0R, Subaru Legacy Turbo wagon, Subaru Outback Turbo wagon, Volkswagen Jetta VR6, Volkswagen Golf GTI VR6, Volkswagen New Beetle Turbo, Volkswagen Passat W8, Volkswagen Phaeton V8, Volkswagen Touareg V8, Volvo C70 Turbo, Volvo S40 T5, Volvo S60 T5, Volvo V70 T5, Volvo S80 T6, Volvo XC90 T6 and every product produced by Toyota and Scion (and GMC, Mini, Buick, Hyundai, Isuzu, Kia, Land Rover, Lincoln, Mercury, Oldsmobile, Saab, Saturn, and Suzuki)

Saturn Vue V6, oh yeah. 👍

The saturn Vue is the forth quickest SUV of all time. The BMW X5 4.8i has a 0-60 time of 6.1.
 
this is from my post in the ultimate bimmers thread

The one bmw that needs more regonition is the e30 318is (only made in 1991). Its lighter then the m3, gets 50mpg on the freeway, 30 overall with my driving it like i stole it, and will last 300,000 miles. For what it lacks in speed it makes up in handling, even though the acceleration is nothing to be ashamed of. This is all coming from someone who ones both a 318is and an e36 m3
 
Double_R
I have to say that the Vue is butt ugly and that the looks alone would rule that car out for me entirely. Whats the point of going fast if you will look like a granny as you do it. #
I am amazed however that they got a car like that with 2wd to get a 0-60 time of 6.6 secs.

I actually think the Vue Red Line is pretty cool looking.

redline2.jpg
 
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