Worst F1 driver?

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C-ZETA
Someone who has won a race, maybe even reached the podium, is NOT the worst F1 driver. He was a bit rubbish at the start but he reached the podium in his first year and then won in Hungary the following year.
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Watch the start of The 2008 Brazilian GP. He won by luck in Hungary. Maybe he's the most undeserving driver to have a top car.

Okay then, Yuji Ide? Sakon Yamamoto? Franck Montagny? All significantly outperformed by Sato.
 
duffers99
Watch the start of The 2008 Brazilian GP. He won by luck in Hungary. Maybe he's the most undeserving driver to have a top car.
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The Brazilian GP, where he surely was told not to overtake Hamilton, one place ahead, at any cost? And then to defend him from cars behind?

Yes, he was lucky to inherit the win when Massa's engine blew in Hungary, but if we're starting on luck, then Heikki's occasions of bad luck should be pointed out - like being given a puncture by Raikkonen off the start in Turkey, a race he could easily have won, or his double engine/hydraulics failures in China and Japan. He had more mechanical failures than anyone ahead of him in the championship.

Then there's 2007, when he had to contend with the Renault downturn, and still beat his vastly more experienced teammate. At Fuji, he held off the eventual champion to take the team's only podium that year.

In short, whilst he didn't have a steller year, Kovalinen is fair from the worst driver on the current F1 grid, let alone ever.

kikie
Sato.
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Takuma's alright. Crashing into things doesn't mean you're terrible - witness James 'Hunt the Shunt', Eddie 'Irv the Swerve' Irvine - and Sato's got decent speed. When he isn't crashing into things.
 
Probably the absolute worst were some of the pay-drivers in the '90s - but as was said, it's impossible to judge them except compared to their teammate. There were many that never got the hang of F1 braking-distances and cornering-speeds, and ended up several seconds behind their teammates - that's a bad driver. Any driver up to half a second behind his teammates (assuming those were sensibly fast) cannot possibly count as "worst". Sato, Ralf, Kovalainen, Andrea de Cesaris, and many others may not have won a championship or a race, but they raced (relatively) competitively against their fellow drivers. Ralf's retirements in 2001, for example, were also down to the BMW powerplant's atrocious reliability: It was enormously powerful, but also fragile, and the Williams team finished less than half the races it started - but won four of those that it finished. Any driver that wins three races in a season cannot possibly be the worst. Any driver that wins a single race (or a single podium) in his career also counts as good.
 
I think the general dislike of Ralf stems from the fact that his opinion of himself far exceeded his driving ability. Sure, he occasionally did well ... but in a sport where inflated egos are commonplace, Ralf put everyone to shame with his comments about being the third-best in the sport. Maybe he was, but proving himself wrong by spending most of the Monaco Grand Prix in last place certainly didn't help. Ralf Schumacher might not have been the worst driver, but he's certanly one of the most-hated. At least until James Allen turned everyone on Hamilton.
 
LEWIS HAMILTON
I Don't Care That He Has Won 9 GPs And The 08 Drivers Title But If He Didn't Make That Deal With Ron Dennis When He Was 12, 13 Years Old, He Wouldn't Have A Chance In F1.(Or A Chance For The Title Either) Lewis Hamilton Has Made Too Many Mistakes In 08. He Rammed Kimi Raikkonen In Canada, Him and His Team Mate Heiki Kovalanen Impeded Other Drivers During Qualifing At 1 GP, He's Cut A Few Chicanes, He Pushed Timo Glock Off The Track At Monza And Last But Not Least He Locked Up At Fuji. Some Of Tese Are Amature Mistakes And Others Are Just Down Right Dangerous. He Was Not Penalised At The Italian GP Yet Felipe Massa Was Given A Drive Trough At Singapore For Being Told To Leave The Pit Box With The Fuel Hose Still Attached. Why Was Massa Penalised When Hamilton Wasn't. Regardless, I'm A Massa Fan. His Show Of Sportsmanship At Brazil Was Superb.
 
With the fuel hose drama, you only need to see how volatile F1 fuel is to know why he was penalised. It is designed to combust as easily as possible, and is almost explosive in air.

Driving away with the fuel hose attached could kill a lot of people.

And you don't need to capitalise every single word you write.
 
waggles
And you don't need to capitalise every single word you write.
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He's not; it's the vBulletin coding that does that. korza493 typed every last letter with capitals, but the forum software doesn't recognise it - and because TYPING LIKE THIS ALL OF THE TIME is the online equivalent of SHOUTING AS LOUDLY AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN and a lot of people DO IT BECAUSE THEY WANT TO DRAW ATTENTION TO THEIR POSTS - and so automatically reduces everything to lower-case letters, but the first letter of each word remains capitalised.

korza493
Felipe Massa was given a drive-through at Singapore for being told to leave the pit box with the fuel hose still attached. Why was Massa penalised when Hamilton wasn't?
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Um, maybe - and I'm just hazarding a guess here - because leaving the pit box early and taking the fuel hose with you is exceptionally dangerous? Hamilton's incident at Monza was just that; a mishap, a racing incident. Most likely it was decided that Hamilton did not intentionally cause Glock to spin, and he did not gain any positions that he should not have (ie illegally cutting a chicane), and so he was not penalised because there was no fault. Massa's early release at Marina Bay, on the other hand, not only had the potential to not only injure his pit crew - the refueller would have been dragged by the car when the fuel hose was torn away from the gravity feed - but one spark could have ignited the spilt fuel.
 
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Metar
There were many that never got the hang of F1 braking-distances and cornering-speeds, and ended up several seconds behind their teammates - that's a bad driver.
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That said, I’d call a driver who can drive within himself and play nice with traffic a better driver than someone without the talent trying to keep speed with someone faster and more experienced than them.

You have to crawl before you can walk, and I have respect for a lot of pay drivers who knew that and went out there to enjoy the cars, rather than do something stupid and throw it into a wall or something.
 
Massa Was Told To Leave The Pit Lane by Ferrari's Traffic Light System After Kimi Raikkonen Was About To Enter The Pitbox While Massa Was In The Pitbox. It Was Not Massa's Folt That The Incident Occured. It Was A Communication Breakdown And The Fact That The Fuel manDidn't Get the hose out in thim.
 
WHY ARE WE ALL SCREAMING????

On a regular note I don;t think the guys mentioned here would even compete with the worst of todays grid.
 
korza493
Massa was told to leave the Pit Lane by Ferrari's traffic light system after Kimi Raikkonen was about to enter the pit box while Massa was in the pit box. It was not Massa's fault that the incident occured. It was a communication breakdown and the fact that the fuel man didn't get the hose out in time.
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What's your point? An early release is an early release, and it's always dangerous. It doesn't matter whether someone gets hurt or not, there's still the potential for that to happen. Anyone who releases early for whatver reason deserves the penalty they get afterwards.

And you can hardly blame the refueller: pit stops are planned down to the lap. The cars are run as light as possible to keep weight down and thus make thme go faster, and so an exact amount of fuel has to be pumped in each time. The refueller can't be occupied with looking up to see if the release light has come on because he's busy with what he's doing.
 
What have Massa and Hamilton to do with this thread anyway?

back to topic:

My favourite F1 reject is Frederick von Opel. Any guy that starts his career using a fake name such has "António Bronco" :lol: must be a funny guy.

However, nothing is known about him after his F1 adventure. Not even a Dakar or a GT championship just for fun. That's strange, unless he did it using a new fake name.


PS - I don't know where he got the idea of using "Bronco" for his fake name but, at least in portuguese, "bronco" is one of the worse variations of what in the english language is defined by the word "stupid"
 
A previous poster believed Hamilton was the worst F1 driver.

And I find it funny he wasn't having charges pressed against him for fraud.
 
korza493
LEWIS HAMILTON
I Don't Care That He Has Won 9 GPs And The 08 Drivers Title But If He Didn't Make That Deal With Ron Dennis When He Was 12, 13 Years Old, He Wouldn't Have A Chance In F1.(Or A Chance For The Title Either) Lewis Hamilton Has Made Too Many Mistakes In 08. He Rammed Kimi Raikkonen In Canada, Him and His Team Mate Heiki Kovalanen Impeded Other Drivers During Qualifing At 1 GP, He's Cut A Few Chicanes, He Pushed Timo Glock Off The Track At Monza And Last But Not Least He Locked Up At Fuji. Some Of Tese Are Amature Mistakes And Others Are Just Down Right Dangerous. He Was Not Penalised At The Italian GP Yet Felipe Massa Was Given A Drive Trough At Singapore For Being Told To Leave The Pit Box With The Fuel Hose Still Attached. Why Was Massa Penalised When Hamilton Wasn't. Regardless, I'm A Massa Fan. His Show Of Sportsmanship At Brazil Was Superb.
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korza493
Massa Was Told To Leave The Pit Lane by Ferrari's Traffic Light System After Kimi Raikkonen Was About To Enter The Pitbox While Massa Was In The Pitbox. It Was Not Massa's Folt That The Incident Occured. It Was A Communication Breakdown And The Fact That The Fuel manDidn't Get the hose out in thim.
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Welocme to GTPlanet, korza493...

1) Please do not type in ALL CAPS. Shut off the Caps Lock button to the left of your keyboard.

2) Somehow you're putting someone who's won several Grands Prix, a World Championship, and has set all sorts of rookie records for the sport, into the discussion of the Worst F1 Driver?

Please re-read the title of the thread, and start a new one with with a discussion between two (or more) of the best F1 drivers in the business at this time. Don't spoil things for Massa and Hamilton fans worldwide because you have a chip on your shoulder.
 
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I guess people don't see the words "World Champion" and think it means any good, lol.

Actually, that would make an interesting question, so here it is for everyone:
Who, in your opinion, is the worst ever F1 World Champion? Be it their driving skills, personality or the circumstances in which they won. Now, obviously, to be a world champion in one of the top motorsports in the world, you must be good, however, I think you could have a "worst" champion just as much as a worst driver.
 
I don't think you could answer the question of worst World Champion. If we reverse the scenarios in which we praise under-rated drivers, or for those who deserved to be world champs, it's usually because they "were in a car that was not the best at the time", or something along those lines.

Formula One World Champions, love them or hate them (or in between), managed to put their skill and talents in the right place and at the right time. Some were shrewder than others to make sure their team was right behind them, or that they moved to the right team when the opportunity arose, but nobody lucks into a title without being faster and more careful than everyone else over the course of a season's worth of races.

Even in a case like the '82 World Championship, Keke Rosberg (who probably gave the best quotes and respect to the press in the entire business, before or since...and one of the driver's I'd like to meet in real-life one day) didn't overdrive the car, kept a level head throughout the season, and won his Driver's Championship fair and square.

You could draw up reasons for any "undeserved" title, for just about any season since 1950. Heck, people still argue who was the real 1939 European Champion of Grand Prix racing...
 
Pupik
I don't think you could answer the question of worst World Champion. If we reverse the scenarios in which we praise under-rated drivers, or for those who deserved to be world champs, it's usually because they "were in a car that was not the best at the time", or something along those lines.

Formula One World Champions, love them or hate them (or in between), managed to put their skill and talents in the right place and at the right time. Some were shrewder than others to make sure their team was right behind them, or that they moved to the right team when the opportunity arose, but nobody lucks into a title without being faster and more careful than everyone else over the course of a season's worth of races.

Even in a case like the '82 World Championship, Keke Rosberg (who probably gave the best quotes and respect to the press in the entire business, before or since...and one of the driver's I'd like to meet in real-life one day) didn't overdrive the car, kept a level head throughout the season, and won his Driver's Championship fair and square.

You could draw up reasons for any "undeserved" title, for just about any season since 1950. Heck, people still argue who was the real 1939 European Champion of Grand Prix racing...
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I realise by simple fact that they are world champions that they aren't exactly bad drivers, however, you can still have a preferrence. Some could say Nigel Mansell's championship was too easy thanks to the Williams domination, but others could say he deserved it after years in the sport and some very good races. Same goes for Damon Hill, some would say he lacked the racing skill and wasn't the best driver on the grid, but others would say he was a good world champion purely because he had a bit more of a honest/modest personality.
Essentially I suppose I'm asking who people dislike.
 
The worse ever World Champion. That's easy. Michael Schumacher. Personal opinion of course.

I think the drivers who win the championship with less race wins tend to earn it more as they are probably in a worse car and are therefore over achieving with it.
 
Hun200kmh
PS - I don't know where he got the idea of using "Bronco" for his fake name but, at least in portuguese, "bronco" is one of the worse variations of what in the english language is defined by the word "stupid"
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A bronco is an untrained horse - usually a stallion - that frequently kicks its hind legs with enough force to unseat a rider. Von Opel probably chose it because he thought it implied he was a wild, natural racer, butit really sounds like something an amateur wrestler would choose as his stage name.
 
Just Because someone Has wone the title Dosen't Make him a Good Driver.
A good driver is Someone who dosen't Make Amature Mistakes Like Hamilton, Who can keep it togther after he has lost th title by one Point, who dosen't lock up on the First lap At Fuji, Who dosen't cut Chicanes and Someone who had to work get a dr5ive At a Top team like Mclaren or Ferrari. and for your information Pupik, I don't have a Chip on my shoulder and I am 1 of Many Massa Fans.
 
korza, do you think Hamilton just showed up at Woking one day and Ron Dennis put him in a race seat? Of course not! He worked for a decade beforehand as a part of a young driver program, and caught the attention of McLaren. The felt he was good enough to drive for them, one of the Big Three teams, and they were right.

See, Hamilton in't the only one to experience a brain fart out on the circuit. How many times did Massa spin at Silverstone this year? And when he was at Sauber, did you notice the number on his car seemed to reflect the number of laps he'd last before he made a mistake?
 
korza493
... and I am 1 of Many Massa Fans.
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Being a fan of one driver doesn't mean you must think that his main rival isn't a good driver.

In fact, that kind of reasoning backfires on you. If Hamilton isn't a good driver, than Massa must really suck, because he lost a championship against a bad driver.

You may not like Hamilton - or "hate" him, as it seems fans nowadays do - and you may have several reasons for that . But don't say he isn't a good driver, because that's just foolish. Besides, saying that makes anything else you say irrelevant.

You know, I never liked Prost, I never liked Schumacher. But I never said - or even thought - they weren't good drivers. How could I?
 
I know there's a lot of Schumacher-hate out there, but I kind of felt the 1994 title was deserved despite what happened in the last race. The FIA banned him from two races, and disqualified him from a second place in the British GP, which artificially set the stage for a close championship finish. Effectively, 6 points were taken from him in the British GP, and due to exclusion from the Italian and Portuguese Grands Prix: Even if Hill won both races, let's say 2nd at Italy and 3rd at Portugal (since Coulthard ran right behind Hill all race long), that means the infamous showdown at Adelaide never would have occurred.

The cause of all this was maneuvering from 2nd place on the grid to 1st place, during a corner or two of the warm-up/formation lap: A minor and meaningless offense. I felt that after the events of several driver injuries and deaths in the sport, this was nothing more than crap, and Schumacher knew that they could penalize him for just about anything...Except for crashing into someone. Maybe it was the rebellious 20-year-old in me at the time, but I still feel he gave a pretty good middle finger to the FIA rather than to Damon Hill, who was really more of an innocent bystander in the game. Now, had Michael muscled Hill over somewhere on the Jones Straight, and not at the slowest corner of the track (which he did), I would think he was a dangerous driver to try that trick.

Yes, Michael Schumacher went on to do a couple of things that weren't good for the sport, and I could create an entire list. But we can not retroactively dissect the 1994 World Championship by counting transgressions that would occur in the future. Simply put, the punishment at the '94 British GP was far stricter than any given by the FIA at the time, for an action that had absolutely nothing to do with the results nor sporting activities on the track, and was it was not a gesture that harmed the integrity of the sport nor governing body in any way.

We can argue the legality of the Benetton B194 until the cows come home, but the fact is if the FIA wanted to ban the team or the cars, they could have, as they had done to Tyrrell in 1984. Even McLaren was given an end-of-year slap on the wrist for their launch control shenanigans at the end of 1994 (of course, their car wasn't that competitive that year, anyhow), and every team finds a way to exploit loopholes. Some get caught, some do not.
 
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