Wrong to Race Aggressively?

[Editor GEAR]

I race semi-aggressively (I guess you could say slightly more aggressively then some), you know, slight taps here and then taking a passing opportunity as soon as the slightest window opens. I don't race dirty, but there are time when my semi-aggressiveness gets me into trouble in clean racing rooms, or hunted down by some foreign racer. I am a courteous racer and I don't block people intentionally and I let them pass If their car has more power/torque/speed then mine, but still I get threatened by hosts occasionally. Is there anyone else out there that deals with that? Up side is, it makes the race way more exciting, but the down side is you get on peoples black list a little more quickly than others.

 

[porthillking]

Some people don't like ANY contact in their rooms, not even a light tap every couple of races. When I used to race online, I had the occasional tap, but most people were fine with it if I apologised right away.

 

[daan]

I race semi-aggressively (I guess you could say slightly more aggressively then some), you know, slight taps here and then taking a passing opportunity as soon as the slightest window opens. I don't race dirty, but there are time when my semi-aggressiveness gets me into trouble in clean racing rooms,

Slight taps = dirty.

And, as I've said in these type of threads before: Due to lag, one mans slight tap, can be a race ending smash for another.

I am a courteous racer

The above says you're not.

 

[Pagey279]

Slight taps = dirty.

Not necessarily, BTCC drivers often pass each other with slight taps, and the odd nudge here and there. But I wouldn't call them all dirty drivers, it's just the nature of the championship.

So to the OP as long as there are no intentional moves to wreck the other guys race, and your just trading paint whilst wheel to wheel then that's fine. But some people online make a monumental fuss saying you knowingly rammed them off, and then do all they can to get 'revenge'. So be careful as what you see as clean racing isn't always the same way other people see it. And like daan said be aware of potential lag.

 

[Street Racer]

Some foreign rooms are pretty strict. After a race, racers go like sorry for the one tap on lap x. You know. Other rooms can have really dirty drivers who are pretty aggressive, and they might spin you out (maybe even intentionally), not caring about it. It think that it depends on the room you are in. In my opinion: Wrong to race aggressively? Really aggressive then yes. Small taps here and there, no.

 

[Shoe67]

Bumping guys to the outside is no big deal. Getting them a little loose is no big deal as Lon as they don't spin. It is when you try to wreck someone that causes problems. I have passed and been passed plenty of times from bump-and-run racing. I think that is how racing should be.

 

[Street Racer]

Bumping guys to the outside is no big deal. Getting them a little loose is no big deal as long as they don't spin. It is when you try to wreck someone that causes problems. I have passed and been passed plenty of times from bump-and-run racing. I think that is how racing should be.

Ehhhh . . . I do agree that there should be bumps in racing, but if its too loose then... Bump them, but not so much that they lose 10mph/15kph trying to save themselves from spinning out.

 

[Editor GEAR]

Lag i can understand, It can set of a whole race and turn it into a scrap yard.
As to Pagey279, I do have a bit of a BTCC style in my racing line, but I don't just straight up ram a guy into the next state, but I do trade paint.....especially if I like your color.

 

[Samus]

If you are bumping on purpose then yes, that's too aggressive and not courteous driving. Bumping sometimes happens in close racing but you shouldn't be doing it purposely. "Oh i'll give him a little bump" is wrong, "I'll take a chance up the inside and try not to make contact" but then bumping a little is ok.

 

[daan]

Knocking someone wide and then nipping up the inside, ala BTCC, is dirty in my book.

 

[Editor GEAR]

That's the thing, I don't bump other racers on purpose. The reason I said I race semi-aggressively is because I stay close behind someone until the chance to pass presents it's self. When you have about 2-4 inches between you and the next guy, a bump or tap is inevitable.

If you are bumping on purpose then yes, that's too aggressive and not courteous driving. Bumping sometimes happens in close racing but you shouldn't be doing it purposely. "Oh i'll give him a little bump" is wrong, "I'll take a chance up the inside and try not to make contact" but then bumping a little is ok.

 

[Samus]

Didn't really word that very well but what I meant was making a move with no intention of bumping but it just happening for whatever reason is acceptable and happens, initiating the bump on purpose is dirty.

That's the thing, I don't bump other racers on purpose. The reason I said I race semi-aggressively is because I stay close behind someone until the chance to pass presents it's self. When you have about 2-4 inches between you and the next guy, a bump or tap is inevitable.

That sounds ok but you should still be driving with care, if you think a bump is inevitable do something about it before it happens, ease off or take a different line.

 

[Morgoth_666]

Didn't really word that very well but what I meant was making a move with no intention of bumping but it just happening for whatever reason is acceptable and happens, initiating the bump on purpose is dirty.

I'd agree with that, although there are some people online who might not mean to hit you but they don't understand that they are doing things that can't possibly end any other way(except the other driver just giving up). That's just the nature of open-entry videogame racing, lots and lots of different skill levels and experience levels(and attitudes).

If it's happening constantly and it does frequently cause other drivers to mess up, then you're probably pushing a bit too hard. If you're just running close and some very minor contact happens with usually no real bearing on who gets the position, it's probably ok, although some people do expect everyone to have perfect car control meaning zero contact at all -- and the aforementioned lag factor is always a danger.

Of course, rules always depend on the host if they wish to declare them. But many don't want to be bothered and assume everyone thinks like they do, however that may be.

 

[GTracer98]

No contact-Clean racing
Slight taps, paint trading-Racing
Ramming, takedowns-Dirty racing

 

[WRP001]

Didn't really word that very well but what I meant was making a move with no intention of bumping but it just happening for whatever reason is acceptable and happens, initiating the bump on purpose is dirty.

Even your re-word is not strong enough if the race is following the GTP_OLR:

05: Rules Governing Car Contact:

A:
Contacts and collisions must be avoided at all costs.

....

06: Running into the car ahead of you:

A:
The behind driver must take all necessary care and responsibility not to run into an ahead driver.

Mistakes happen by all drivers so contact will happen at times and the driver causing contact is required to wait for the impacted driver and cannot take advantage of that contact. However, constantly putting yourself in a risky position where a slight mistake equals contact and especially if your skill level means mistakes are not uncommon is not clean driving.

Every series is different but in the GTP_WRS-Online races if a driver repeatedly makes contact, even slight and unintentional and even if it doesn't cause an "incident" they'll get called out and warned. If they don't adjust their approach and learn how to "avoid contact at all costs" they'll get penalties and ultimately DQ'd if they don't change their style.

If the race director/organizer wants a far more aggressive room they should state so in the rules and all drivers agree... I wouldn't be interested in such a competition and the chaos likely to result.

To the OP: An exciting race to me is when I'm locked in a multi lap battle with a driver (or two) and we race close without any contact. That shows skill and car control. The ability to make a pass without contact involves race craft and not dive bombing. Of course I almost always race in longer events (45-60 minutes) which allows the race to develop and rewards some patience. Not a big fan of short mad dash races where aggression rules.

 

[The Bman]

There's a big difference between racing dirty and driving aggressively. Racing dirty would be to flat out wreck somebody, spin them out, or ram them into the grass. Giving another driver some bumps and taps to move them out of the way is aggressive driving.

Aggressive driving is alright in my book. Driving dirty isn't.

 

[Drevenger]

Bump happens all the times in every racing league.
Almost any.Kart leagues in real life would be tagged very dirty based on GTP OLR
You gotta be careful not to be more catholic than the pope.

 

[DarkAvengerZR1]

I think this is a very complicated subject. But with a very simple solution. Common sense.

I mean, from where to where we can define common sense? In my opinion, if the race has 30 laps, damage on strong (pit to repair only), someone tries to be in the front at the first corner or the first lap... that is very annoying. Use the common sense, you have 30 laps to overtake.

Try to not force a situation, by not throwing your car in the inside line on every single corner... one thing is drive aggressively, other is being a toolbag face.

So, common sense people, common sense.

 

[WRP001]

Bump happens all the times in every racing league.
Almost any.Kart leagues in real life would be tagged very dirty based on GTP OLR
You gotta be careful not to be more catholic than the pope.

Don't compare a video game to real life. In real life there are other deterrents (in addition to rules) to driving like a tool... fear, injury, accidents and money to repair damage caused by being a tool or being on track with one.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

Don't compare a video game to real life. In real life there are other deterrents (in addition to rules) to driving like a tool... fear, injury, accidents and money to repair damage caused by being a tool or being on track with one.

I agee. For the reasons above, online needs to hold a higher standard. Bumps happen, yes, and isn't necessarily "dirty", could be a mistake. Regardless, make a bump into or in the corner and you don't have enough skill to deserve the gained position - so give it back. Many drivers can win all day long by diving for the apex without overlap, and then "rubbing" to keep the postion. That's not making a clean pass and indicates a low skill level.

 

[NSXDriver]

I race semi-aggressively (I guess you could say slightly more aggressively then some), you know, slight taps here and then taking a passing opportunity as soon as the slightest window opens. I don't race dirty, but there are time when my semi-aggressiveness gets me into trouble in clean racing rooms, or hunted down by some foreign racer. I am a courteous racer and I don't block people intentionally and I let them pass If their car has more power/torque/speed then mine, but still I get threatened by hosts occasionally. Is there anyone else out there that deals with that? Up side is, it makes the race way more exciting, but the down side is you get on peoples black list a little more quickly than others.

i drive the same way, i let someone pass if they're obviously going to anyway, but at the same time if someone is driving straight down the middle on a track like Nur and i'm faster i'm going to bump them to get by no questions asked. reverse grid from previous race is really frustrating on those tight tracks when you're clearly faster but have to weed through traffic to get out in front again.

 

[Drevenger]

Don't compare a video game to real life. In real life there are other deterrents (in addition to rules) to driving like a tool... fear, injury, accidents and money to repair damage caused by being a tool or being on track with one.

So based on fear , injury, accident and money it is ok to bump folks in real life?
Whats your point really? Last time I checked all the upgrade PD is trying to implement is literally to resemble real life and like it or not there is tons of incidents including reckless drivers thats goes under the radar in real life. Did you see Travis Pastrana this year at the XGame rally cross?

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

Fear, injury, money etc are the real life motivators to driver clean and avoid contact. In a game you need a higher standard such as " make contact and you must give the position back".

 

[Shoe67]

No contact-Clean racing
Slight taps, paint trading-Racing
Ramming, takedowns-Dirty racing

This sums it up perfectly

 

[Chrunch Houston]

I race semi-aggressively (I guess you could say slightly more aggressively then some), you know, slight taps here and then taking a passing opportunity as soon as the slightest window opens. I don't race dirty, but there are time when my semi-aggressiveness gets me into trouble in clean racing rooms, or hunted down by some foreign racer. I am a courteous racer and I don't block people intentionally and I let them pass If their car has more power/torque/speed then mine, but still I get threatened by hosts occasionally. Is there anyone else out there that deals with that? Up side is, it makes the race way more exciting, but the down side is you get on peoples black list a little more quickly than others.

Ah, Lupo.

Correct me if I am wrong, but you were in the white 86 and I was in the brown Volvo?

I will wait for your verification before I continue my response.

 

[GTracer98]

deleted

 

[Shoe67]

Ah, Lupo.

Correct me if I am wrong, but you were in the white 86 and I was in the brown Volvo?

I will wait for your verification before I continue my response.

I feel like this is just going to turn into a heated argument. It should stop now 👍

 

[thelvynau]

Just a question what about Nascar?

I always thought some contact in it is acceptable?

 

[eran0004]

i drive the same way, i let someone pass if they're obviously going to anyway, but at the same time if someone is driving straight down the middle on a track like Nur and i'm faster i'm going to bump them to get by no questions asked. reverse grid from previous race is really frustrating on those tight tracks when you're clearly faster but have to weed through traffic to get out in front again.

Driving in the middle of the road is a fair defensive strategy. The defending car can chose whatever path it wants along the road as long as it's not swerving. The attacking car have to earn the pass, and simply being faster is not enough to earn it. There's a million tricks to get a pass on a slower car, like provoking a mistake, putting some pressure, taking a different line through a corner etc. If you don't like "reverse grid from previous race" then go to another lobby.

Of course, the defending car has the option of letting the faster car pass, but it's entirely up to the driver to decide. For me, if I know that the attacking car is someone who plays fair, I have no problem giving them a free pass, but if it's someone who drives a little dirty I put them to the test and make them fight for it.

The problem is that a lot of drivers try to pass right away, they don't have the patience to wait for a clean opportunity or to provoke a mistake from the other driver, they expect to be given a free pass and if they don't get it they go dirty. I don't care how fast you are, if you can't make a proper pass you're still not a good driver.

 

[DarkAvengerZR1]

^ This.

again, common sense. One thing is a racing bump, other is be a toolbag face and always make it, every corner.