Your drifting strategies...

Discussion in 'GT4 Drifting' started by 90crxfreak, Feb 14, 2005.

  1. Swift

    Swift Staff Emeritus

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    If youi can't use lift off or feinting, then you're timing is off. It is a hard thing to do but it really makes or breaks the drift. Lift Off should be fairly simply with most FR cars that are setup well for drifting. Granted, there is no "perfect" setup. But some lead to easier drifting.

    Also, if you're in an understeering situation all the time, then you may be braking too late. I've found in GT4 that almost any braking straighens out the car. This is useful when racing, but when drifting it doesn't help too much. So, try to watch that a bit.

    Good luck
     
  2. Boundary Layer

    Boundary Layer Premium

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    yep, braking has a tendency to straighten the car out during mild under/oversteer

    however, if you are in a state of extreme oversteer - say on the very verge of a spin, a quick tap of the brakes will whip the tail around almost regardless of the brake bias. The effect is similar to a quick e-brake pull.
    this can be a litttle annoying at time since it comes as a natural reaction when you're about to spin - but its not too hard to train yourself to not do it

    infact, i use this to my advantage to navigate extremely tight hairpins on Amalfi, or the tight hairpin on hong kong (though space is a bit limited here). I'll openly admit that I mess these turns up quite often trying to use this technique.
     
  3. G-T-4-Fan

    G-T-4-Fan

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    Well, actually my style consists only of feinting.....I basically try it at every corner. And somehow it also works at corners like hairpins too. But I found too that braking always straightens you out, except for a particular timing in the feint: just when the back begins to swing out a little brake tap is effective:tup:
    I also use power over in some corners, but that's pretty simple, and I never use the handbrake, even when the drift goes wrong, I just don't come up with the idea: "tap the E-brake now" I also enjoy a succesfull linking in corners:tup: That always looks good, like in Apricot Hill's first corners. I also use a feint for very long corners, but I found out that you need to begin quite in the inside of the coming corner:idea: Otherwise you just end up in a wrong line wich is pretty important in a long drift, cause every slight mistake you make in the beginning ends up in a MAJOR mistake at the exit:crazy:

    So I don't use any dirt dropping technique or something else like that, never caught my eye in vids. so I don't really think about using it or give it a try.
     
  4. Ske

    Ske Premium

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    From reading these posts, I'm still pretty convinced I'm doing nothing wrong ;) It's probably in the settings of the car, since I can initiate nicely in a few cars.

    This is covered to death in a few existing threads, but I guess I'm looking for extreme solutions, and I haven't really found an answer yet (just dozens of questions :p). And no offense to anyone, but reading 10-page threads with a nothing of l33tness and flaming in 9/10 posts tends to make me overlook the worthy posts :|

    Can you quickly sum up a few settings and which general direction to tune them to make a car turn in faster? Like I said, extreme generalisations are OK, and ignore side-effects for now... I'm just looking for ways to get a burst of grip on the front tires just to swing the car around, not a general solution to all things understeer.

    I find that I can generally drift quite well now if I could only find a way swing the car around easier...
     
  5. gsavill90

    gsavill90

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    I use a big powerful Rear Wheel Drive car, a little bit of handbrake to start the slide, and then just floor it all the way through, with plenty of counter steer. Easy.
     
  6. Swift

    Swift Staff Emeritus

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    Actually, from what you've said, I would say the exact opposite. I'm sure you've checked out the drift depot and tried out various settings. But if none of them are working for you on a fairly regular basis, then it's an issue of technique.
     
  7. 194GVan

    194GVan Premium

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    maybe try experimenting with the toe settings if youve tried everything else. off the top of my head i couldnt explain what a positive or negative setting does, but when i use toe I generally dont go past 1 or -1. Just try it out and see if it helps you.
     
  8. Boundary Layer

    Boundary Layer Premium

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    high stabilizer settings - Note: high settings = faster transfer of weight, low settings = suspension stays loaded longer, but overall transfer rate is slower (likewise with spring and damper settings - but i like to use stabilizers to trim my setups)

    front toe inwards (+ setting) /-^-\
    rear toe outwards (- setting) \----/
    this way, when the outside tires are loaded at turn in, the tires experiencing the most grip actually promote the turning direction

    set the lsd's initial torque and decel effect to higher values

    increase rear rebound, decrease front bound - in my experience, braking will plunge the nose of the car deeper = more forward transfer = more front grip, less rear grip

    then of course, you have your wing adjustments if the car is so equipped - the settings here are pretty obvious

    sometimes a little more front camber can help - but it depends on the vehicles suspension geometry,
     
  9. G-T-4-Fan

    G-T-4-Fan

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    I had a pretty understeering RX-7 too. If you tried to solve this the same way I did, turning down stabilizer down to minimum, try to put it on 3 at front and 1 in back, and set negative toe ( - ) on the back. It helped for me, with some more agresive steering:tup::idea:

    Edit: TS beated me already
     
  10. Swift

    Swift Staff Emeritus

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    Yes, but at least you both gave sound advise! :cool:
     
  11. Ske

    Ske Premium

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    Thanks for the advice! :tup:

    I especially value input on how to tune the LSD as I've never mastered that, I always kept initial and accel low, while bumping the decel a bit for grip racing. Going to put these settings through extreme scrutiny now :dopey: (love this smiley)

    As for toe and camber angles; I've been all out and through those in every way, but results are inconclusive at best... it may seem that these settings do not make much of a difference when you're pushing beyond the limits of the car? Anyway, my idea is the same as yours (F+ R- for quicker steering) and I'll keep those in my setup. I also never messed too much with dampers, because testing them without knowing what to look for is not very rewarding. I generally just tried to match them to my spring rates.

    I already keep a wing equipped and at 30/0, but I don't know how fast you have to go for the wing to actually help (I heard that it doesn't really have an effect until you're past 80-100 kph (50-60 mph).
     
  12. Boundary Layer

    Boundary Layer Premium

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    an F1 car can create enough downforce to drive inverted at approximately 70km/h

    CL ~ 2 FL / (p(V^2)Ap)
    where CL is the coefficient of lift, FL is lift force (or downforce as the case may be), p is fluid density, and Ap is planform area.

    taking p, Ap and CL as constants, we see that the relation between downforce (FL) and velocity (V) resembles a parabola. So yes, at high speeds, substantially more downforce will be apparent than at low speeds. To say it only begins acting at a certain speed is incorrect. But the lower your speed, the more reliant you are upon mechanical grip.
    (at least, this is how it is in real life - I can't say how PD implemented the concept into their game. Perhaps they use is as a linear multiplier on both grip and drag....who knows)
     
  13. Gen.

    Gen.

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    30/0 ?! I preferably like to keep some controlled understeer in the car to give it a bit of predictablity...

    And TS, please put it in layman's language :lol: Normal words and strange signs isn't exactly helping me understand this. :lol:

    (Lift divided? by lift force) over fluid density(velocity squared) times platform area.

    Hope I got that word equation right...
     
  14. 194GVan

    194GVan Premium

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    I just noticed your comment above Swift and was wondering how this relates to AWD. Alot of times i will be mid-drift halfway through a turn and still have to steer into the turn to keep the back end going sideways (in this situation im referring to a turn greater than 90 degrees) rather than the ideal zero countersteer or countersteer.

    Does this mean I am trying to go through the turn too fast/braking late?

    I hope to have an AWD video up soon to be critiqued because I still feel like I have no idea if I am using poor technique or not. Sucks because I really havent had time to practice in the past week so my skill has noticeably dropped off as well. :guilty: Im looking forward to some solid practice time tonight :)
     
  15. Boundary Layer

    Boundary Layer Premium

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    hehe, sorry mdnite, the full formula isnt important

    the big point:
    FL ~~ V^2

    the lift force (or in this case, negative lift) is roughly proportional to the square of the velocity. Lets say you have 1 unit of downforce at 100km/h. If you increase your speed from 100km/h unit to 200km/h, your downforce increases from 1 unit to 4. At 300km/h, you'd have 9 units of downforce, etc etc.

    again, this assumes that the air density, lift coefficient, and planform area of the aerofoil remain constant, which they certainly should be.
    and yes, I do mean planform area, not platform ;) - its the maximum projected area of the wing,
     
  16. Swift

    Swift Staff Emeritus

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    I'm not the greatest at AWD. But the rules for AWD drifting are very different then for FR drifting. So, what you are doing sounds fine to me as long as your angle and line are good. If not, then it's time to start adjusting.
     
  17. Ske

    Ske Premium

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    Heh, I'm just so friggin sick of understeer.. I'd rather have a spinning monster of a car if it would just turn :crazy:

    I've been messing around a bit with my RX7-RZ (FD), and with the lsd set to 50/50/15 I seem to be getting somewhere... Toe set at +4/-4, camber 4.0/0.5 and springs/dampers slightly softer up front (using medium soft settings). It's very easy to control sideways now (especially with a bit of quick on/off throttle action), and it turns a lot better than it used to, but there's still room for improvement until I can have it lift off like the Clio..

    I can enter the final long corner at tsukuba (my training track at the moment) at 130-140 kmh and do just fine. The hairpins are still giving me a headache though

    I'm guessing I should stick to this car now heh..
     
  18. HammerShot

    HammerShot

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    That is some serious Toe and camber settings. I would suggest dropping them a little.
     
  19. Ske

    Ske Premium

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    I don't know.. like I said I'm aiming for extreme turn-in capability. I don't know if toe and camber angles start to lose their effect if tuned too hard though...
     
  20. HammerShot

    HammerShot

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    If it works for ya, more power to you. Just yeah being at those extremes don't really help. I tried that setup when I first started. It seemed to help, but it created some wicked oversteer once i started testing it's limits.
     
  21. Ske

    Ske Premium

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    Ahhhhhhh the bliss! My RX7 is now officially a dream machine :) I guess I can try a little fine tuning but it more or less handles like I want it to now (or maybe it was the test lap in that horrible S15 that made me realize it heh)

    I'll go post my settings in the depot now :p

    edit: The settings wasn't as extreme as I thought: toe 1/-2, camber 3.5/0.5 wing 30/8... and it lets you know long before it decides to shake it, not nervous at all :tup: I can now hold take that last corner at about 40 degrees almost without countersteering lol. The hairpins are coming together nicely as well (sorry bout the rambling, i'm just happy :dunce: )
     
  22. BrykeSpike0086

    BrykeSpike0086

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    If you would like to know a "OK" Strategy, please hear me out.

    Put some weight to the rear of the car and apply either N1,N2, and/or N3 Tires.

    as you drive and as you try to drift, "Throw" the rear of the car towards the direction you want your car to drift to.

    hope That should help.
     
  23. Gen.

    Gen.

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    That's ok for learners.

    Oh, and isn't that the IDM motto in your sig?
     
  24. Boundary Layer

    Boundary Layer Premium

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    no, they go beyond that and actually defy the laws of lateral adhesion
     
  25. Gen.

    Gen.

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    Ahh... My bad. Carry on. :)
     
  26. FD-180

    FD-180

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    nice pic
     
  27. 424drifter

    424drifter

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    Iv been drifting ever since I got gt4 (about 4weeks ago), however rather than holding a smooth drift through the corner it feels as though I am just fighting the steering with the back wheels.

    As soon as I am holding a good drift, it either fades b4 the end of the corner or I get a massive tank slapper and head off into the unknown I have managed to control the tank slappers a few times but if I do I only get a small angle on the corner and it don't look great on the replay.

    Obviously I know that the amount of input has a desired effect on the output so I have tried to make everything as smooth as possible. I use the general setup detailed within this website and viewed the endless videos and studied the techniques but it never seems to work.

    The best results I have achieved were with the Caterham fireblade what a car one of the best to drift with imo.

    But I would like to get as good with the HKS Silvia I use economy tyres and a standard analogue controller I don’t think I will change to a wheel just yet. Is there any help you can give maybe with the set up or technique?
     
  28. SRV2LOW4ME

    SRV2LOW4ME Premium

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    Just keep, making changes to the settings as you go, finding what works best for you in that car. If you have a hard time with that, try one of the already made settings for it found in the Settings Depot, or maybe trying the elastic band technique, found in one of the threads here in the drift forum, just use the search, it could work for you, and help with your drifts.
     
  29. Ske

    Ske Premium

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    I've been trying and trying and trying ad nauseum to change settings now.. and my conclusion is as follows (at least true for cars like the S15s, rx7s and the trueno - most ppl's favorite drift cars?). Believe me when I say that for the trueno , I've tried EVERY increment available on all of the parts mentioned here:

    Brake balance does nothing at all since all cars have ABS.
    Suspension does just about nothing at all to under/oversteer.
    LSD does SOMETHING, but it seems pretty random.

    I can drift fine in cars like the S2k R1 cause for some unknown reason it has very high turn-in stock.

    I guess I'm just venting frustration, but anyone wanna explain why I'm wrong? Once in a blue moon I stumble across a good turning car, but I can not duplicate this by tuning strategically. It seems 100% random.

    Of course, the main problem that caused me to try all this was a few of the above mentioned cars' total lack of turn-in. No matter what I try, it seems the front WILL have less grip than the rear in ANY given situation, unless the car was programmed in another way stock.

    Sorry for the ranting, but I guess this is my last call for constructive feedback as I'm about to give up on tuning altogether out of frustration. :yuck:
     
  30. Droptop_Chick

    Droptop_Chick

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    I've exchanged afew PM's with this person. I feel it applies to your problems...


    I would probably say your trying to power over on your turn-in instead of trying to transfer the weight. Those are the only times I ever get any feeling that the car isn't turning in, or the front end feels like it has no grip. ABS shouldn't matter, you don't need to lock the brakes, you only need the brakes to move the weight where you need it. Lack of grip in the front is probably coming from weak weight transfer. You need to FORCE the weight onto the front end and keep it there. Your braking will effect your ability to turn in.

    Suspension does nothing to under/oversteer....
    Suspension tuning will only get you so far. It's only meant to maximise your style. That's why everyone says tune to your style. I have plenty of cars built that will mildly oversteer when I lift off at turn-in, but at the same time they can understeer at turn-in. How effectively you can move the weight with whatever applied technique you're using will determine if you can initiaite/hold/exit a drift. But suspension tunning is pretty simple, it just takes alittle thinking into what you're doing, and what you want to do. The stiffer the suspension the faster the load of weight will travel. The softer the suspension the slower the load of weight will travel, but it can give you more time to react to the cars movements. Some people say a stiffer suspension makes for a snap-happy car. So play with the suspension until you feel comfortable with the reaction time given with the car. I don't know how much this can help, but pretty much everything is linked together in one way or another. Changing one setting will effect how another is applied. It's up to you and your "style" to figure out how to make the most of that.