Your Experiences With GT Sophy

Just took my own advice and tried the Tsukuba and Suzuka Expert races and dropping myself behind Violet from the start.

It really is a good fun pace for me. I was basically just following Violet through the traffic and then the last lap would usually be me trying to keep pace and try to pass cleanly. Worked great IMO. I wasn't aggressively trying to pass. All the AI cars worked well. Often wheel to wheel and no one was doing anything eradic or hitting me. They were clean races. A lot of fun.

Obviously I could pass Violet without much effort if I exploited the other cars around us, but I think trying to smoothly get through traffic, as if Violet was a team mate, and then once we were both out front and making a run for it.. It just all felt good and worked well.

So I still stand by my thought process that Sophy can't handle people with eradic driving behavior or sudden surprise moves. I think it was built upon and calibrated based on data from the top drivers and they know how to drive well with etiquette. You shouldn't do that stuff in the A+/S tier online racing or the real world either. People forcing another driver off the road by "squeezing" them over the white line is no bueno. And when the AI does see the squeeze coming, it backs out which is what any reasonable person would do. You're not going to destroy your car/lose the race because this lunatic is all over the road. You back off and live to fight another day.

What I really want to know is how it handles all the other scenarios; to know how close this thing is game ready. Will it compensate for tire/fuel wear? Does it get into a giant car pile up crash when multiple AI are trying to enter the pits? Does it know how to navigate other cars when there is a large speed differential? Blue flag behavior? How big of a grid is possible? How does it perform in wet conditions?
 
I don’t know how people can honestly say this is just the same old AI. For one thing I have not seen the standard AI drifting through the bends like the Sophys do, especially at Alsace.

As a very moderately skilled player Violent Violette is all over my arse even on intermediate. I’m having to cover the inside and hit every apex like I never have to against the standard opponents.

This is a complete game-changer for the more casual player if they can implement it fully.
 
Seikenfreak
All the AI cars worked well. Often wheel to wheel and no one was doing anything eradic or hitting me. They were clean races. A lot of fun.
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Meanwhile, my experience is this. Easily enough alongside for every real world rule set to allow me to be there, and two completely blind hits in about five seconds. The Sophy either didn't have any idea about me, or just didn't care. Neither of which is a good option really.

 
Greycap
Meanwhile, my experience is this. Easily enough alongside for every real world rule set to allow me to be there, and two completely blind hits in about five seconds. The Sophy either didn't have any idea about me, or just didn't care. Neither of which is a good option really.

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It expected you to follow the racing line and at least try to hit the apexes rather than just drive down the middle of the road like you did.
 
Magog
It expected you to follow the racing line and at least try to hit the apexes rather than just drive down the middle of the road like you did.
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OK, so in your way of thinking nobody is expected to pass into a corner and if someone dares to do that, they can be freely turned into. Care to explain how to pass on the inside while always staying on the racing line?
 
Magog
It expected you to follow the racing line and at least try to hit the apexes rather than just drive down the middle of the road like you did.
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That was my initial thought as well. It seems to expect him to be turning/driving toward the apex on both of those. I could see the argument for either side in that scenario.
 
Seikenfreak
That was my initial thought as well. It seems to expect him to be turning/driving toward the apex on both of those. I could see the argument for either side in that scenario.
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Look at the steering dot and you'll see that I'm already turning in both cases, going to take a slightly later apex. Apparently Sophy can't take into account that someone may be driving even a bit differently - or again, doesn't care.
 
Greycap
Look at the steering dot and you'll see that I'm already turning in both cases, going to take a slightly later apex. Apparently Sophy can't take into account that someone may be driving even a bit differently - or again, doesn't care.
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If you're going to go up the inside of someone either AI or real you should be taking the far inside line. The AI is well within it's rights to hold it's line and only give you one car's width which it did especially given how easy it is to ride the curbs.
 
I'm not sure I am a good enough racer to see a difference, but it still seems like the previous 'AI' and a 'scripted' race with the cars finishing in similar positions race after race. 🤔 The purple car challenged for the lead in all but one race, because we collided and went off. It did lag behind the pack quite a bit for a lap or two, and but still finished 3rd.

I did find it odd that coming out of a corner on Intermediate with the purple car, neck and neck, the purple car did not get to the same top speed. I expected the AI to lose time on corners, and the racing lines it takes, but to be able to reach maximum speed for the specific car.

If they are limiting the speed the cars can reach as a means of adjusting the AI performance, that does not seem very 'intelligent'.

I suppose that it is an improvement over the 'boosted' speed of the normal 'AI'. If the new AI is not doing the same things at times of course.
 
redhed17
I'm not sure I am a good enough racer to see a difference, but it still seems like the previous 'AI' and a 'scripted' race with the cars finishing in similar positions race after race. 🤔 The purple car challenged for the lead in all but one race, because we collided and went off. It did lag behind the pack quite a bit for a lap or two, and but still finished 3rd.

I did find it odd that coming out of a corner on Intermediate with the purple car, neck and neck, the purple car did not get to the same top speed. I expected the AI to lose time on corners, and the racing lines it takes, but to be able to reach maximum speed for the specific car.

If they are limiting the speed the cars can reach as a means of adjusting the AI performance, that does not seem very 'intelligent'.

I suppose that it is an improvement over the 'boosted' speed of the normal 'AI'. If the new AI is not doing the same things at times of course.
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The AI has either a worse car or worse tires than you in all but the 1 vs 1 races. The purple car always has the second best tires/car after you. That's how they set it up.
 
Magog
If you're going to go up the inside of someone either AI or real you should be taking the far inside line. The AI is well within it's rights to hold it's line and only give you one car's width which it did especially given how easy it is to ride the curbs.
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No...Just NO

Sophy didn't bother checking for a collision, which frankly is an issue with the standard AI as well. It absolutely should do a predictive check and avoid the accident. This is something that's been done for decades now, so no excuses for Sophy.

If this were a real world race, or even a track day, Sophy would have been black flagged (track day) or penalized (race) for causing an avoidable accident. That would have gotten Sophy bumped down in SR in Sport Mode.
 
Voodoovaj
No...Just NO

Sophy didn't bother checking for a collision, which frankly is an issue with the standard AI as well. It absolutely should do a predictive check and avoid the accident. This is something that's been done for decades now, so no excuses for Sophy.

If this were a real world race, or even a track day, Sophy would have been black flagged (track day) or penalized (race) for causing an avoidable accident. That would have gotten Sophy bumped down in SR in Sport Mode.
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I disagree. If Sophy were a real person Greycap would have been penalized for causing an accident. The first incident he tries up the inside but doesn't turn in far enough. He was well behind before the corner. In the second incident he's practically aiming for Sophy before quickly turning in slightly. Again far too late to avoid the collision.
 
Magog
I disagree. If Sophy were a real person Greycap would have been penalized for causing an accident.
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Did you actually watch the video? Because, if you did, you might want to watch it again.
Magog
The first incident he tries up the inside but doesn't turn in far enough. He was well behind before the corner.
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In that incident, his front wheel is up the inside, Sophy turned in even though it should have detected the other car. That is by all measure an avoidable accident. For a human, it might be a questionable move. For AI, it's simply not checking collisions.
Magog
In the second incident he's practically aiming for Sophy before quickly turning in slightly. Again far too late to avoid the collision.
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In the second, the entire car is along side Sophy. Sophy turned in, again, without care. This is AI. It's a collision box check. Sophy should have avoided the collision, even turned away to avoid the collision.
 
Voodoovaj
Did you actually watch the video? Because, if you did, you might want to watch it again.

In that incident, his front wheel is up the inside, Sophy turned in even though it should have detected the other car. That is by all measure an avoidable accident. For a human, it might be a questionable move. For AI, it's simply not checking collisions.

In the second, the entire car is along side Sophy. Sophy turned in, again, without care. This is AI. It's a collision box check. Sophy should have avoided the collision, even turned away to avoid the collision.
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You and he must come from the Lewis Hamilton school of racing where you expect the other driver to careen into the wall so you can pass even when you have plenty of room to avoid the collison yourself. It's the person passing with the onus to choose a line that doesn't result in a collison. He had soooo much room on the inside on both occasions and chose not to use it.
 
Here's one of the runs I just did. Did this one slightly different as I didn't deliberately stay behind Violet through the first couple laps. I was kinda being more aggressive here, trying to be a little off with the AI but also not do reckless stuff. A lot of wide entry/late apexes. Few spots I let off to let the AI catch up a little. And then the last 130R was just me chickening out but also didn't expect my car to slow down so much lol

But yea, I've done a bunch of races like this now, fooling around, and the either the AI does make contact with me but its so subtle and gentle that I don't even notice it or it doesn't upset the car at all.. Or I do a sloppy maneuver and come in too hot on a corner or I don't back out of a side by side braking zone like I should and the AI comes down on me a little bit. All reasonable stuff I think.

Edit: Oh and this is also using controller which is how I play most of the time just casually.



@Magog
You and he must come from the Lewis Hamilton school of racing where you expect the other driver to careen into the wall so you can pass even when you have plenty of room to avoid the collison yourself. It's the person passing with the onus to choose a line that doesn't result in a collison. He had soooo much room on the inside on both occasions and chose not to use it.
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I don't think its so much that he chose not to use it as much as it was he oversped the entry/was understeering :P
 
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Greycap
Meanwhile, my experience is this. Easily enough alongside for every real world rule set to allow me to be there, and two completely blind hits in about five seconds. The Sophy either didn't have any idea about me, or just didn't care. Neither of which is a good option really.

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I found Sophy Red to be the most aggressive at protecting their position in the race. Not necessarily by being the fastest out there or by driving defensively, but by force. Every time I came up on her she would try to cut in front of me, or bump into me to try and slow me down. This happens ALL THE TIME in the Sport races. My guess is that this particular AI knew exactly where you were and was trying to intentionally hit you to slow you down and keep it's position in the race.
 
Greycap
Meanwhile, my experience is this. Easily enough alongside for every real world rule set to allow me to be there, and two completely blind hits in about five seconds. The Sophy either didn't have any idea about me, or just didn't care. Neither of which is a good option really.

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Is your clip indicative of your total experience with Sophy? Or are you cherrypicking to make a point that there is still polishing to do?

Clearly, Sophy's inputs (compared to yours) in causing the contact is an obvious one. I'm just trying to figure out if you posted this to say there are occasional faults or that Sophy is consistently reckless. It isn't clear from your post.
 
My currently only gribe with sophy is that they nerf my traction instead of upgrading sophys...

and she just drift around the track like there is no tomorrow without loosing grip I don't have those kind of skills I need my tyregrip so pls polyphony do it the other way around.

also she can be a bit agressive and bump you but that is not a gribe more like adds a human element to it :D
 
I've done the races so here's my opinion:

I don't know what they're actually testing with this update.

Sophy is obscenely fast, but we knew that already. PD knows that already. The Sophy AI itself needs to be adjustable, not just the vehicle the AI pilots, or the vehicle the player pilots. But they haven't attempted to adjust the AI difficulty.

In fact, the only difference between the Beginner, Intermediate and Expert Sophy Races at Tsukuba is that you start on Sports Soft, then Sports Medium, then Sports Hard on each race, while the Sophy cars are all on Comfort Softs.

The races are still chase the rabbit which is just a total waste for all parties involved. It's still the same issue that GT has today - it's a totally unbalanced staggered start to compensate for their perceived framerate issues, just that they have then curated the races so that the slower opponents are in front and the faster ones are behind. You are still not racing in the true sense of the word.

When it comes to actually racing 1v1, you are going to be blocking and defensive driving the whole time. Once sophy is more than half a second ahead, you won't catch it. It doesn't really solve the problem of people wanting to race an AI for an entire race, because as soon as you aren't blocking it, then the race is effectively over.

This update indicates to me that PD don't really have any idea how to scale the difficulty of the AI itself.
 
Playing some more tonight I just see more of an issue that Sophy is incapable of collision avoidance. It will slam on the brakes if someone is spun out, but cannot avoid the accident if they want to minimize time lost to navigate the spun player.

I also noticed that Sophy will not take an inside line, even if it's ahead. It'll back out to try and take the best line it can before it will take a shallow line in an attempt to overtake.
 
I just raced Sophy and beat it up to Lvl. 3 at Tsukuba.

Have to say: its itrigueing fun. I like the way Sophy reacts to you and how it handles the moments it starts to lose control.

I dont see the point why it shouldnt be added to any offline race or at least one race per track and variant right now to give it a way to learn.

Nice experience!
 
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ShiftingGears
The Sophy AI itself needs to be adjustable, not just the vehicle the AI pilots, or the vehicle the player pilots. But they haven't attempted to adjust the AI difficulty.

This update indicates to me that PD don't really have any idea how to scale the difficulty of the AI itself.
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Sony AI is responsible for developing Sophy, not PD, and while I can't speak for whether it has "any idea how to scale the difficulty" I do know it's something they have been addressing.

It's not relevant to this application of Sophy though, which is simply a public beta test of the Sophy agent running multiple instances on one end-user's console - quite the change from having dedicated hardware (not even consoles originally, but even as recently as the Showdown, each instance of Sophy ran on its own PS5). It is a taster of how the AI behaves against you on a track.

To make it so that it doesn't hose you unless you're a top 0.5% driver, it's been restricted to lower PP vehicles - with the amount of lower equivalent to the difficulty of the race (they could have reduced throttle input maxima, but that'd be a dead giveaway on a straight and then people would have whined about that).

It's not a perfect solution, but it doesn't need to be; we're seeing how the AI behaves in comparison to standard GT AI, not necessarily how quick it can drive, which most people would find utterly pointless as they get rinsed and then have no way of being on the same bit of track as Sophy to see how it behaves.

This isn't the final implementation of Sophy in the game. It's just a chance to race against a new AI that doesn't dumbass its way onto the racing line no matter what's there. There will be others in the future, which this test will help inform.
 
It would seem that Sophy has been modelled on the Senna/Verstappen school of driving rather than the Prost/Button model they should have used.

I'd like to see it cope with tyre wear too.
 
Who would you choose as bookends to driving aggression for Sophy? I'm thinking Button and Max, and Alonso in the middle...

Perhaps Senna instead of Max...
 
For me it's a great experience to have something new in GT. I mean you are not 40+sec behind at the start and all you do is pushing your limit in an OP car, but have some kind of head to head racing. Also, the opponents are not that predictable anymore. The emojis are great to distract your focus, hopefully we won't see such thing IRL :D

I managed to win all the races where we have more cars. I'm still missing some 1v1 tho', the Corvette is a nightmare on those tyres.
 
Famine
(they could have reduced throttle input maxima, but that'd be a dead giveaway on a straight and then people would have whined about that).
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That seemed to be what it did for me in a couple of races. Me and Purple, always Purple, came out of a corner on to the final straight with me slightly ahead, and it dropped back. And we were both in the same car. 🤔
 
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