Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[shirakawaa]

I know it's listed as such, but the interior is so dark that makes me reconsider the use of GTPSP-style black outline interiors for standard cars in GT5. They would not be that different from this example.

 

[Tornado]

I'm starting to wonder if this is really a premium car. The interior is exceedingly dark.
From the September 2010 PS3 Kiosk demo:

[youtubehd]8SsP7NkkfWU[/youtubehd]

*Shoots self in the face*






As an aside, I wish the GT5 tachometer wasn't so thoroughly useless.

 

[LaBounti]

Its a bad video. it says premium on the selection screen I can see the gauges.

 

[Kryz11]

I know it's listed as such, but the interior is so dark that makes me reconsider the use of GTPSP-style black outline interiors for standard cars in GT5. They would not be that different from this example.

So is this Standard car as well..



what is there not to get? The old demos had different brightness levels compared to new demos.

 

[shirakawaa]

So is this Standard car as well..
[video]

What I'm saying is that if interiors in premium cars are most of the time so dark (or can get that dark for extended periods of time while racing, as it can happen in real life - your video is an example - although it's true that cameras have a lower dynamic range than human eyes), then there's no reason to not use black outlines for standard cars. The data for them (driver position, etc) is ready to use from GTPSP anyway.

what is there not to get? The old demos had different brightness levels compared to new demos.

How does this affect what I meant?

 

[Lucas]

You spend a good deal of time in here trying to get everyone to agree that the Standard cars in GT5 are sucky old models. You hate for anyone to even mention the F-game. So lo and behold, you make a post discussing that "other" game, and how cool it is. I don't recall you saying how dreadful the other cars in race are, with drastically reduced detail, to the point that the cars sometime resemble plushies as much as the originals when you examine them.

If you change everything related to GT5 in that post for things related to Forza, it would seem that the person you are describing is actually yourself. And the sad part is that I'm not lying. And a few members (the members that I consider smart and non-fanboyish, go figure) can prove me right. Can't take you long to guess who those members are. A clue:

Spoiler

those who you seem to get in an argument with everytime you speak with them.

 

[Revelation1115]

Like it's been said before 3 factors play into this:
Cars PD wants in, cars manufacturers want, and cars fans want. Besides just because you find certain cars a waste doesn't mean that's true for others.

The game is for the masses not just you, that's why there's such a variety. I also find it funny how people dismiss the amount of premium cars like its a small number, I doubt the average person will drive more than 15-20 cars on a regular basis.

Lol, so true. I think 200 cars is a lot, considering they are fully detailed; unlike FM3, which people like to compare this game to. FM3 does have 400+ cockpit views, but the graphics are just not up to par with GT5's 200. QUALITY > QUANTITY

 

[Traviizter]

QUALITY > QUANTITY

Aw man, took mah comment
Better to have 200 (pretty much) top-quality (or even next-gen) cars and 800 (I would say) *****-like cars. Whew, this thread is getting choppy.

 

[5Liter]

I'd be happy if the remaining 800 cars are Forza quality:tup:

 

[Spagetti69]

I'd be happy if the remaining 800 cars are Forza quality:tup:

I'd be happy if they all were Forza quality.

 

[VXR]

Exactly. I'd think only the most idiotic of people would be unhappy with PD having the luxury of the FM3 poly count to play with for the remaining 800 cars. If you think FM3 cars look so inferior with their number of polys next to the Premium cars, I can only imagine the shock you'll have when you finally see GT5's standards next to the premiums.

 

[analog]

I'm starting to wonder if this is really a premium car. The interior is exceedingly dark.
From the September 2010 PS3 Kiosk demo:

I know it's listed as such, but the interior is so dark that makes me reconsider the use of GTPSP-style black outline interiors for standard cars in GT5. They would not be that different from this example.

Oh please, how many times does this whole "cockpit looks dark and therefore it must be a Standard car" nonsense come up again.
Standards don't have any cockpit view, no PSP style black frame ( they've actually worked on that but it was cancelled ) and if you've ever played Prologue you would have known that sometimes even in well lit modern cars the interior under certain circumstances becomes extremely dark ( drive around the London track for example ).

Now this particular car ( C3 Corvette ) has already been discussed many pages back as the interior is tight, small and dark-coloured.
Not only that, the dashboard is styled in a way, unlike most modern and even most classic cars, which makes the top of the dashboard closer to the driver than the bottom half of the dash ( so obviously the shadows are bigger and sunlight isn't capable of falling on the instrument pannel if the sunlight comes from the front of the car ).

I should have simply said, it has a cockpit so therefore it can only be a Premium car, perhaps but there you go.
Still not convinced? Sorry, then it's up to you.

 

[shirakawaa]

You conveniently avoided post #6732.

 

[analog]

You conveniently avoided post #6732.

No not avoided conveniently but it didn't really add anything significant, just elaborating slightly on both posts I already quoted.
Yes Premium interiors get extremely dark sometimes ( like the London example I gave ) but surely not all the time.
They only get dark to replicate accurately what would happen in those particular circumstances.
That those very brief dark moments bare a striking resemblence ( although even then much more detailed and accurate ) to a black frame PSP style cockpit which remains dark all the time is comparing apples and oranges to be frank.

 

[Tornado]

Lol, so true. I think 200 cars is a lot, considering they are fully detailed; unlike FM3, which people like to compare this game to. FM3 does have 400+ cockpit views, but the graphics are just not up to par with GT5's 200. QUALITY > QUANTITY

It would be great if PD actually subscribed to that theory, but that obviously isn't the case. Especially if GT5 ends up including all of the cars from GTPSP.

 

[infamousDee]

It would be great if PD actually subscribed to that theory, but that obviously isn't the case. Especially if GT5 ends up including all of the cars from GTPSP.

This post pretty much sums up my thoughts regarding "Standard" cars:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3993321#post3993321

 

[Devedander]

QUALITY > QUANTITY

Exactly! It's not like hitting that magic 1000 number is worth dropping the avearge quality of your product by making 80% of it sub par... oh wait...

 

[FLASH48]

Really all the harping going on in this thread is not going to change one thing. There will still be 800+ standard cars and 200+ Premium cars when you get GT5. So i guess we will just have to live with it. Or don't buy the game because of the standard and Premium cars, that's your choice.

 

[Slurm]

With a month to go before we have GT5, one thing concerns me: Is the visual model the only thing separating standards and premiums?

I don't mind too much about the graphics. I do love how GT games look. But in the case of standard cars, I can accept themappearing less detailed. Disappointing, but okay. Lack of cockpit view is a BIG blow too, but again, something we have to deal with. However, I want to feel re-assured that the same care and effort has been given to ALL cars in every other area. If standard cars sound inferior, handle differently, can't be modified, I will be upset.

For me, "standard" cars need to meet the same "standard" set by "premium" cars in all other areas of the game, or they will truly be sub-standard and, I fear, far less desirable / potentially obsolete for use in the game.

 

[JDMKING13]

Really all the harping going on in this thread is not going to change one thing. There will still be 800+ standard cars and 200+ Premium cars when you get GT5. So i guess we will just have to live with it. Or don't buy the game because of the standard and Premium cars, that's your choice.

Ding Ding I wish all those cars where Premium, who wouldn't but its nothing we can do its time to get over it! At least lets play the game 1st to come to final judgment about them Im glad PD still put those 800 cars in because GT5 is a better game with them in then out in my opinion.

 

[Tornado]

Ding Ding I wish all those cars where Premium, who wouldn't but its nothing we can do this get over it! to Im glad PD still put those 800 cars in because GT5 is a better game with them in then out in my opinion.

I actually happen to agree with this, but on only one condition:
They actually went back and fixed the problems a large portion of them had when they went to put them in GT5. If they didn't even do that, that I truly can't say that I think GT5 is better off with them included, because it shows a total lack of attention to detail for the game.

 

[Nish]

As far as I'm concerned GT4 was great and GT5 standards are upgraded GT4's with 200+ premiums. It's the gameplay and environment of GT that makes it an amazing game. The GT map always feels inviting and not like just data options on a page. I will enjoy as many cars as my time will allow.

 

[shirakawaa]

With a month to go before we have GT5, one thing concerns me: Is the visual model the only thing separating standards and premiums?

I don't mind too much about the graphics. I do love how GT games look. But in the case of standard cars, I can accept themappearing less detailed. Disappointing, but okay. Lack of cockpit view is a BIG blow too, but again, something we have to deal with. However, I want to feel re-assured that the same care and effort has been given to ALL cars in every other area. If standard cars sound inferior, handle differently, can't be modified, I will be upset.

For me, "standard" cars need to meet the same "standard" set by "premium" cars in all other areas of the game, or they will truly be sub-standard and, I fear, far less desirable / potentially obsolete for use in the game.

I've read that the tire and the suspension physics models have been completely redone since GT5Prologue, which at that time also had a vastly improved physics engine over GT4.

For standard cars I guess the new tire model would always work (together with the new and improved physics engine)... but what about the suspension model? It's more complex than you may think: premium cars could have more detailed parameters about how suspensions are fitted to the chassis and their specifications, while standard cars could have the older and "simpler", more generic suspension model (for example: generic macpherson model, generic multilink model, etc), with the usual real (although often guessed, as stated by Yamauchi) data supporting it, so that in general the car would behave pretty much like the real thing, but not as close as premium cars would.

In the end, physics will most probably be much better than GT4 for all cars, but might turn out to be less than optimal in standard cars. I agree this is something which requires a conclusive answer. I could bear lower quality 3D models, but I want driving physics/accuracy to be top-notch for standard cars too.

 

[LaBounti]

Exactly! It's not like hitting that magic 1000 number is worth dropping the avearge quality of your product by making 80% of it sub par... oh wait...

I think he's referring to FM's 400(the FM2 cars are just not as good as the FM3) VS GT5's 200 premiums. Its common to take things out of context to make a sarcastic remark.

Forget about Flash, some people just like to hang around and be bitter about it rather than doing something else.

I actually happen to agree with this, but on only one condition:
They actually went back and fixed the problems a large portion of them had when they went to put them in GT5. If they didn't even do that, that I truly can't say that I think GT5 is better off with them included, because it shows a total lack of attention to detail for the game.

What problems? I dont think if even 20(whatever was wrong with them) cars had issues it would be a big deal to just not include them. If its not game breaking its not an issue. The gears of the 2006 Eclipse GT was fixed in GTPSP so I dont think all the issues will carry over. One thing that I am looking forward to is the old cars running on new physics.

 

[TakeshiSkunk]

I don't understand all these people that seem to think the only reason GT5 has 1000 cars is to compete with Forza.

Honestly I don't think it's that at all. One of the things that got me into GT in the first place, way back in GT2, was the staggering number of cars in the game. Not all super high performance race cars either. The huge amount of content and information available on the vehicles really gave me a whole new outlook on motorsports and an appreciation of automobiles.

The fact that this entire aspect was absent from GT3 made it very difficult for me to get into the game, throughout the lifespan of GT3 I spent way more time playing 2 (though I've recently gone back to 3 and can really appreciate the physics now as compared to those found in 4, primarily for drifting).

The fact is that for a lot of the core GT fanbase, collecting cars from this gigantic pool is part of what makes the game great. Finding cars you forgot about or didn't even know were in the game, and with the re-inclusion of the racing mod, seeing what all the race versions look like. I personally would rather have 10 premium cars and 990 standards than just 200 premiums. Heck I'm counting on some of my favorite cars being standards and came to terms with that a while back. I severely doubt that the Lancer 1800 is going to get a premium makeover.

I'm sure that the physics are going to be on par for all the vehicles in the game, premiums and standards alike. It's possible that the standards may lack some very subtle handling nuances that the premiums may posses due to more complicated suspension modelling, but I really doubt it'll be anything you'd notice unless you were very intimately familiar with the car in question.

Honestly though, I think that a lot of you are overestimating the whole suspension modelling aspect of the premium vehicles, and we'll end up with similar (and great) handling all around the board.

Now don't misunderstand, I would love 1000 premiums as much as the next guy, I'm just saying that I would personally prefer quantity over quality if we're only talking about graphics and it came right down to it.

 

[JDMKING13]

As far as I'm concerned GT4 was great and GT5 standards are upgraded GT4's with 200+ premiums. It's the gameplay and environment of GT that makes it an amazing game. The GT map always feels inviting and not like just data options on a page. I will enjoy as many cars as my time will allow.

Thats whats its about man, I Understand everybody frustration about wanting all the cars premium because they look so great and have great features, but the man said the game would of took for ever. It is what it is, Again i'm just glad we have the option to drive the standards. It gives us more option. The most important feature IMO is the new physics engine, which will gives us a new experience with a favorite GT4 cars and the new mechanical damage! If you hate the standards cars so much just have fun with the premium cars, 200 cars in that type of detail is more than enough to have a good time!

 

[Traviizter]

Prologue had about 70 cars right?
The amount of Premiums will be 200, meaning around 130 new cars, which takes care of the people wanting new cars.
There will be the cars from GT4/GTPSP, which I think is around 750 (I didn't have GTPSP, mixed reviews turned me off).
None of the cars in GT4 or GTPSP had interiors (citation needed ) and no-one was complaining, but now just because we've had a few cars with interiors, people are now demanding 1000 cars with exact interiors. There will probably be/are over 130 (estimated) brand spanking new, freshly modelled cars available, with pitch-perfect interiors, a great damage model (as seen from the Best Buy demo) and amazing graphics. Just because there are 800 old(er) cars in the game, doesn't make the overall game worse. In fact, the cars are updated for HD. If you aren't happy with the cars being there, you might as well take them out all together and just have 200 cars. Would help you with the 'difference between Standards and Premiums'.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I think he's referring to FM's 400(the FM2 cars are just not as good as the FM3) VS GT5's 200 premiums. Its common to take things out of context to make a sarcastic remark.

Not sure I follow this.

 

[LaBounti]

Lol, so true. I think 200 cars is a lot, considering they are fully detailed; unlike FM3, which people like to compare this game to. FM3 does have 400+ cockpit views, but the graphics are just not up to par with GT5's 200. QUALITY > QUANTITY

Aw man, took mah comment
Better to have 200 (pretty much) top-quality (or even next-gen) cars and 800 (I would say) *****-like cars. Whew, this thread is getting choppy.

Exactly! It's not like hitting that magic 1000 number is worth dropping the avearge quality of your product by making 80% of it sub par... oh wait...

This is where my comment comes in.

 

[Traviizter]

This is where my comment comes in.

Quoted from LaBounti:
Wow Traviizter, wat a great post! I admire you for being such an amazing person!

J/k