Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[yogaflame]

well from the interview of Simraceway http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdH8tFpkKYA&feature=player_embedded#! it seems it is still not confirmed if all cars will have cockpit view or the 800 cars will just be tinted black glass

 

[Devedander]

Standard models will look much sharper and beautiful than previous GT games. That's all I have to say

Are you including GT5P in that? If not, it's really not saying much.

 

[Raitziger]

wrong thread sorry

 

[Akira AC]

Are you including GT5P in that? If not, it's really not saying much.

wow pretty aggressive there,devedander you always have valid reasons for your arguments but this one is pretty childish,

Actually the better comparison is the same game with same assets but on a newer video card that handles higher resolution AND supports newer directx...

Then indeed the same game CAN look a lot better without need for higher res textures. Happens all the time.

Basically the standard cars are the absolute minimum to be expected in terms of improvement when porting from PS2 to PS3. Any less and it would be sheer incompetance and buffoonery.

yeah some games do look better without they need of higer res textures,and that is because from blur effects and pixel shader that depends only on the graphics card that you have,not the direct x which is released to keep new graphical standards.

but this also means that PS3 pixel texturing can keep up with the latest graphical standards,and this also means that all the old ps2 models will be upgraded for this version,while a lot of people say that those are direct portraits from GT4,and make no mistake they are,that doesn't mean that they will be pixelated will have or that old gen graphics and 3d models from old generation will be stay at the way there were,what they are going to do with the standard cars is implement new texturing,upgrading res and update 3d models to the newer standard.

what I am trying to say in roundup is that some people say last gen GT4 models will be directly upgrade to GT5 WITHOUT complementing what I said,and is to mention the forza 3 development also took old titles cars and upgrade them to standard resolution,from inside you see the difference(cockpits)but from outside you see that the models were tweak to match current standards and resolutions,and this got me thinking that if GT5 prologue cars look equally good as Forza 3 models,now with new standards on resolution,texturing,etc... how the models will look and keep in mind that most of the hondas on GT5 prologue are upgraded from GT4 so make your comparation and let see if they will match these qualities.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Basically the standard cars are the absolute minimum to be expected in terms of improvement when porting from PS2 to PS3. Any less and it would be sheer incompetance and bufoonery.

Bufoonery?

I guess thats one of those examples, where if its not a real word, it oughta be.

 

[eSZee]

Yeah, because of the lighting engine, doesn't change that the car is a straight port from GT4!

Because it's not. What you're saying is they took the cars straight from GT4 and used the PS3 to make them look better. As far as I'm concerened, that's not true.

Indeed, but let's not forget photomode. It's from GT4, but not GT4 in race models. So if you want to be pedantic about it, you may say they are better.

Still far worse than premiums though.

I guess that would be false as well.

Buffoonery?

I guess thats one of those examples, where if its not a real word, it oughta be.

It is, he just missed one letter.

 

[gtracedriver]

Are you including GT5P in that? If not, it's really not saying much.

They just said previous GT games. People are taking that as PSP,PS2 game I do not know why ? How a PSP game can be taken for PS3

They will decide whether they are ok with standard models. I do not think they will include car models which people are going to say as ugly But then again some people will always find faults in something or other. They cannot please everyone in this world

 

[chepu]

Because it's not. What you're saying is they took the cars straight from GT4 and used the PS3 to make them look better. As far as I'm concerened, that's not true.

Those are The same GT4 Models, But have Full quality Textures, thats why you dont see Dithering and Obviously has better Wheels, Besides that IT IS THE SAME GT4 PHOTOMODE MODEL, and of course its Not the PS3 itself making them better, Its the GT5 Lightning Engine.

As an Example, lets say You grab a Rock, but you have Issues with your Sight, You use good glasses that lets you see it better, then You take another Glasses which are even better, Obviously the rock will Look better, But ITS THE SAME ROCK.

Thats why Cars look Better, but the Model itself Its the same, has the same edges and vertexes.

Hope im clear. 👍

 

[JDMKING13]

Guys i don't know why you even argue with these guys. In the end anybody with some education can see those standard cars look 100x better than those GT4 cars on our PS2. For me its the end of the argument. If they want to say they took the cars directly from Gt4 blah blah who cares. They look way better and they have GT5 physics and can be damaged. Again any person with some sense will understand these are upgraded GT4 cars. I love the graphic upgrade the standard cars got, but i'm most excited we get to drive those standard cars with the new physics 👍

 

[SuperCobraJet]

They just said previous GT games. People are taking that as PSP,PS2 game I do not know why ? How a PSP game can be taken for PS3

They will decide whether they are ok with standard models. I do not think they will include car models which people are going to say as ugly But then again some people will always find faults in something or other. They cannot please everyone in this world

I've said it before and I will repeat again.

You cannot output an image in 1080p HD unless it is well modeled, otherwise it will look lousy.

The cars had to be redone for the PS3.

I don't believe there is any way in GT5 that the rendering of standard cars will be of poor quality.

 

[chepu]

I've said it before and I will repeat again.

You cannot output an image in 1080p HD unless it is well modeled, otherwise it will look lousy.

The cars had to be redone for the PS3.

I don't believe there is any way in GT5 that the rendering of standard cars will be of poor quality.

O M G

Thats just it, Ofcourse those wont look like a Stretched 480i Image, because they arent, ITS THE 3D Models People, 3D Models.

If you have ever modeled anything, you surely know that before you render Something you choose the Resolution and Details.

Or do you think if you model something, you have to model it for certain Resolution?

 

[Benmastaw00t]

I've said it before and I will repeat again.

You cannot output an image in 1080p HD unless it is well modeled, otherwise it will look lousy.

The cars had to be redone for the PS3.

I don't believe there is any way in GT5 that the rendering of standard cars will be of poor quality.

How many cookies must I hand out today? That is a very plausible theory, otherwise standard cars will look like those half-assed "HD import" games like Half Life Source, etc.

 

[gtracedriver]

I've said it before and I will repeat again.

You cannot output an image in 1080p HD unless it is well modeled, otherwise it will look lousy.

The cars had to be redone for the PS3.

I don't believe there is any way in GT5 that the rendering of standard cars will be of poor quality.

Yeah. They set themselves pretty high standard when it comes to cars so it will be just fine.

But this definitely won' t be there. The interior replays, inside the car and the driver like this

 

[JDMKING13]

Yeah. They set themselves pretty high standard when it comes to cars so it will be just fine.

But this definitely won' t be there. The interior replays, inside the car and the driver like this

Yup i agree with you i'm pretty sure standard car will not have those views.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Yup i agree with you i'm pretty sure standard car will not have those views.

Well like Triple D said, you can't have everything. Or was it you can't please everyone?

Whatever.

 

[JDMKING13]

Well like Triple D said, you can't have everything. Or was it you can't please everyone?

Whatever.

Yea I'm cool with that. My standard cars imo will have cockpit view and will be a pleasure to drive! Cant wait to drive a ITR 99 or S2000

 

[analog]

Yup i agree with you i'm pretty sure standard car will not have those views.

They weren't even available in Prologue either.

 

[JDMKING13]

They weren't even available in Prologue either.

Yea your right, I think its a new feature/camera view for the premium cars.

 

[VRracingfan]

No big deal really, there are bigger problems in the world.
track editor, more tracks, dynamic weather, day-night transition, top gear track and 1000 cars is fantastic in my view and I'd rather buy it than Forza any day.
Kaz said it himself, premium cars are effectively for ps4 so in a way they are a massive bonus.

 

[Devedander]

I've said it before and I will repeat again.

You cannot output an image in 1080p HD unless it is well modeled, otherwise it will look lousy.

The cars had to be redone for the PS3.

I don't believe there is any way in GT5 that the rendering of standard cars will be of poor quality.

That is not a statement that can be just made across the board.

A lot of it depends on th enegine in which it's rendered. When you see the base models of some of the more impressive looking games today, you may be surprised how simple they are and how much is done with textures, clever mapping and lighthing.

We are not talking about animating with sprites here, this is the 3D world and I think a lot of people are talking over their paygrade.

Ultimately you CAN reuse the same models and have them look noteably better. And if you stop living in the hypothetical and look at the example chepu put up, you can see it in action.

Look at what Bleemcast GT4 and Tekken3 pulled off... take a game with a 2 year old DX9 vid card and play it on a nice hefty DX10 vid card today, entirely possible it looks a lot better but it's the exact same game and assets.

 

[lalaurentide]

...

 

[Spagetti69]

Underneath the back seat....... Wow.

 

[Devedander]

People who thinks the standard cars will be straight ported from GT4 are retarded, in GT4 the lights and most of the car shapes were done with images instead of actual 3D, they cannot use that, as far as we can tell the premium are almost like the real thing, under the hood, when you open the door, behind the bumpers, underneath, the backseat, even the spare tire is probably modeled. So far NOONE has seen the standard cars.

What? No one has seen standard cars? There was a video, there are images on the PD website, chepu did a close comparision that shows pretty much the exact same model used in both GT4 and GT5...

But one thing is for sure, they can't use GT4 car assets or Kaz would not release the game.

Why is it that peoples beliefs in what KY WOULD do or what they think of him somehow overrides what you can see with your own two eyes?

 

[chepu]

People who thinks the standard cars will be straight ported from GT4 are retarded, in GT4 the lights and most of the car shapes were done with images instead of actual 3D, they cannot use that, as far as we can tell the premium are almost like the real thing, under the hood, when you open the door, behind the bumpers, underneath, the backseat, even the spare tire is probably modeled. So far NOONE has seen the standard cars. But one thing is for sure, they can't use GT4 car assets or Kaz would not release the game.

See those Headlights, and tell me those arent Textures, Like GT4.

We the ones that know those are GT4 Ports, arent Retarded.

I recommend you to read Everything that has been Officialy out about Standard cars, *ahem ahem* Official GT Website *ahem ahem*

 

[SuperCobraJet]

That is not a statement that can be just made across the board.

Sorry but I believe it can. It will take more than a ported image from GT4 or GTPSP to render a quality image in 1080P HD. The PS3 can't improve the image unless the work has already been put into the image.

A lot of it depends on th enegine in which it's rendered. When you see the base models of some of the more impressive looking games today, you may be surprised how simple they are and how much is done with textures, clever mapping and lighthing.

So true and they may be using all of the above. Thats irrelevant. The point is will they look old gen or new gen quality. Again they will have to be reworked to look better than old gen and I have no doubt they will.

We are not talking about animating with sprites here, this is the 3D world and I think a lot of people are talking over their paygrade.

Over the paygrade or over the rainbow, 3D can only add to the demand for a good quality image.

Ultimately you CAN reuse the same models and have them look noteably better. And if you stop living in the hypothetical and look at the example chepu put up, you can see it in action.

You can do a lot of things, but when the game comes out and is viewable on a 1080P HD TV, the hypotheticals are over. For now everything is hypethetical, including chepu's example.
Do you really believe Kaz is going to release the game with crappy car renderings?
I don't think so.

Look at what Bleemcast GT4 and Tekken3 pulled off... take a game with a 2 year old DX9 vid card and play it on a nice hefty DX10 vid card today, entirely possible it looks a lot better but it's the exact same game and assets.

That ought to tell you something. If PD is working with the resources of the PS3, the car renderings will probably be the least of your worries.
Playing GT4 on my PS3 is undistinguishable from playing it on the PS2.
However going from 720p to 1080i does make the cars graphically more sharply rendered. However it is not the signal format improving the image, but the image quality being able to be displayed by the signal format.

 

[kingcars]

There are STILL people saying those aren't GT4 models? Really? *sigh*

It'll never end.

For now everything is hypethetical, including chepu's example.

First, do you know what hypothetical means? Obviously not, because actual screenshots of 2 games do not classify as hypothetical. If this were 2 years ago and we said "well if they use GT4 models..." then that would be hypothetical.

Second, if you can honestly look at the pictures posted and say "Those are not GT4 models" then you are either blind, biased, or just lying to yourself. The polygon rows are *THE* same, the details on the actual models are *THE* same...etc. There will not be much, if any major changes made this late in development. So at this point, it's what-you-see-is-what-you-get.

 

[Devedander]

I recommend you to read Everything that has been Officialy out about Standard cars, *ahem ahem* Official GT Website *ahem ahem*

Where do people come up with things like "can't use 2d textured headlights" in GT5?

It seems that the Dunning Kruger effect is in full swing around here sometimes...

 

[Grant U. Rismo]

I play sim racers with a group of friends and we all generally think the same thing on this issue. As long as there is a decent bonnet camera view we are alright with it.

At the same time, Polyphony Digital can learn a few things about the development of future titles. Personally I think they should have just released the game with 200 cars and then added more as free DLC.

 

[Devedander]

That ought to tell you something. If PD is working with the resources of the PS3, the car renderings will probably be the least of your worries.
Playing GT4 on my PS3 is undistinguishable from playing it on the PS2.
However going from 720p to 1080i does make the cars graphically more sharply rendered. However it is not the signal format improving the image, but the image quality being able to be displayed by the signal format.

I am sorry, you do not know what you are talking about.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

There are STILL people saying those aren't GT4 models? Really? *sigh*

It'll never end.



First, do you know what hypothetical means? Obviously not, because actual screenshots of 2 games do not classify as hypothetical. If this were 2 years ago and we said "well if they use GT4 models..." then that would be hypothetical.

Second, if you can honestly look at the pictures posted and say "Those are not GT4 models" then you are either blind, biased, or just lying to yourself. The polygon rows are *THE* same, the details on the actual models are *THE* same...etc. There will not be much, if any major changes made this late in development. So at this point, it's what-you-see-is-what-you-get.

I know what hypothetical means, but I don't think you do.
The image didn't come from the released game.
So it is still as of yet, a hypothetical rendering of what we may get.

Furthermore, was it output to, and taken from, a properly adusted 1080p HD TV?
What method and format was it relayed by and how many times was it relayed.

Will we get an exact representation of that image as shown in the final game release?

Hypothetically speaking.....................maybe.


Granted, we know the standard cars will not look as good as the premium cars.
I will also admit they are close to GT4 renderings, from what I can tell.
How do they look in 3D?