Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[dylansan]

Dude, you can call me whatever you want, but don't tell me I'm not a car enthusiast.

Just because I'm a hardcore car enthusiast it doesn't mean I like all types of cars, especially not the Lancia Stratos (LMAO). I happen to be into classic american cars, hot rods, customs and muscle cars and have been as long as I can remember... Luckily for me the '69 Camaro (which is my all time real life favorite car), '71 Challenger and '69 Corvette are featured as premiums.

Oh I see. So just because you got lucky and your favorite cars are premium, you don't think any of the standard cars matter?

You may be a muscle car enthusiast, but let me just point out how I feel about cars.

I prefer classic european cars like the Mercedes 300SL, fiat 500, BMW 2002 Turbo, and I love the Lancia Stratos. I also like Kei cars, like the Daihatsu Storia and Copen and Move, the Suzuki Alto and Cappuccino, the Honda Beat, Mazda Autozam, etc. I love Japanese classics too, like the Toyota 2000GT, the Mazda Cosmo, all the old Skylines and Celicas, and even the classic Civic.

I drive these cars often in GT4, and I find it fun, but these are not all I drive, nor all I care about. American muscle is gradually becoming more interesting to me. I love the Plymouth Superbird, the C1 and C3 Corvettes, the Buick GNX, and especially the Shelby Cobra and Mustangs.

I don't like supercars as much, but I still find myself driving a Ford GT or VW Nardo or Pagani Zonda every once in a while. On the opposite end, I find enjoyment out of racing the Subaru 360 or Citroen 2CV. Sometimes I drive a Peugeot 206, or a Mazda RX7, or an Autobianchi Abarth, or a Ford RS200, or a Subaru Legacy.

I am a car enthusiast, and there are many like me who enjoy the Gran Turismo series because it allows them to drive almost any car from any category from any year and do it with some of the most realistic graphics and physics, and most fun gameplay of any game out there. There are many on this forum who still play GT1, 2, or 3 because it contains some car or track or race not included in GT4, that they found fun.

These people are car enthusiasts, driving enthusiasts, and racing enthusiasts, and they can't wait for GT5 because it can only give them even more of an opportunity to experience cars, driving, and racing like no game before it. These people don't limit themselves to the best; they want to experience it all, and they have fun doing it. Unfortunately, given all this, and in my opinion only, I must say that you are not a Gran Turismo enthusiast.

Enjoy your 200 cars, we will enjoy them all.

 

[maxpontiac]

See, one of the points is this: If you can't choose whether you want the standards or not (which would require them to be seperated from the premiums in one way or another), it's not an option anymore. If they're truly optional (like, you can choose whether to 'enable' them or not), those who care about quantity can have them and those who care about quality won't be bothered by them.


REAL gamers/enthusiasts just care about quality instead of quantity.

Yay for pointless generalisations.

Speaking of pointless... this thread has 3,179 posts in it.

 

[JDMKING13]

Gonna be along time playing catch up.

If you need a new driveway paved. Don't ask Kaz.

Go ask Dan Im sure he will get it done for you in no time. 👍

You say that like it's a bad thing.



Which makes it two games in one! What a brilliant idea... Give everyone the GT4 they really always wanted, with full online and improved physics, on a graphics processor that can handle the graphics (GT4 was limited by the PS2s capabilities), and then a full new game, with 200 new cars. Last time GT moved to a new console (GT3) they showed up with less than 200 cars, total, and GT3 was the best selling GT of all time.

It's not what PD did, it's how you interpret it.

Thats why I didn't get them saying its an incomplete game its more of 2 games in 1 IMO.

 

[maxpontiac]

Give everyone the GT4 they really always wanted, with full online and improved physics, on a graphics processor that can handle the graphics (GT4 was limited by the PS2s capabilities), and then a full new game, with 200 new cars. Last time GT moved to a new console (GT3) they showed up with less than 200 cars, total, and GT3 was the best selling GT of all time.

It's not what PD did, it's how you interpret it.

That is exactly why I am so stoked about GT5. I spent more time on GT4 then any video game I have ever played.

Keeping that in mind, I am getting the two things I wanted on GT4, and that's online and damage.

Nice point.

 

[JDMKING13]

That is exactly why I am so stoked about GT5. I spent more time on GT4 then any video game I have ever played.

Keeping that in mind, I am getting the two things I wanted on GT4, and that's online and damage.

Nice point.

That is the reason Im also so pumped man, I get to play GT4 In true HD glory with new features of GT5. I cant wait bro!!

 

[yellowclone]

Dude, you can call me whatever you want, but don't tell me I'm not a car enthusiast.

Just because I'm a hardcore car enthusiast it doesn't mean I like all types of cars, especially not the Lancia Stratos (LMAO). I happen to be into classic american cars, hot rods, customs and muscle cars and have been as long as I can remember... Luckily for me the '69 Camaro (which is my all time real life favorite car), '71 Challenger and '69 Corvette are featured as premiums.

Please show me a picture of a '71 Challenger in the game, because all I have seen is the '70. I would think a hardcore car enthusiast, like yourself, that is totally into american muscle, would know the difference. I am a Mopar man, and I am into American muscle too, but I can tell the difference in model years for GM's, and Ford's also.

All that to the side, I appreciate cars in general, and love driving all different ones in games that I have either never heard of, or don't have access to. To me that is what GT is about. I also think standard car will look fine next to premiums racing. I guess there can be more than one kind of car enthusiast, but I am the one that like driving different variety of cars throughout many generations. So, I for one, will not miss the chance to drive all my old favorites from previous GT games with the new track graphics, tracks, and physics.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

You say that like it's a bad thing.



Which makes it two games in one! What a brilliant idea... Give everyone the GT4 they really always wanted, with full online and improved physics, on a graphics processor that can handle the graphics (GT4 was limited by the PS2s capabilities), and then a full new game, with 200 new cars. Last time GT moved to a new console (GT3) they showed up with less than 200 cars, total, and GT3 was the best selling GT of all time.

It's not what PD did, it's how you interpret it.

Hallelujah some sanity at last. After reading some of the comments saying "GT5 would be better with only 200 premium cars" i've sat for the last 10mins feeling utterly bewildered at the rationale of some people.

 

[analog]

Hope PD isn't paying attention to this thread when they realise they could've apparantly just re-released an upgraded GT4 with a few new features like online, etc. to satisfy some fans......

Whatever happened to progress, why even invest in a new generation of hardware when a previous gen game will suffice?
And why bother to play it on HD when the graphics are supposedly irrelevant?

This is just spinning things beyond belief......some would probably make themselves like anything as long as it's labelled PD.

 

[dylansan]

I think my last post was left behind on the last page?

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=128481&page=159#post3945123

I think it really summarizes the feelings of many on here.

 

[JDMKING13]

Hope PD isn't paying attention to this thread when they realise they could've apparantly just re-released an upgraded GT4 with a few new features like online, etc. to satisfy some fans......

Whatever happened to progress, why even invest in a new generation of hardware when a previous gen game will suffice?
And why bother to play it on HD when the graphics are supposedly irrelevant?

This is just spinning things beyond belief......some would probably make themselves like anything as long as it's labelled PD.

And your not spinning nothing? All we are saying is we are going to have just as a good time with the standards compared to the premiums, but here you come saying all they have to do is release is GT4 with upgrades 👎 Then you say whatever happened to progress So your going to tell me that GT5 has not progress from what the information we got so far, and what makes me laugh is there is still more features to be announced. Im sorry that some of us can understand everything is not going to be perfect in life, but still take the positives from a situation. I will work on my whining for now on 👍

 

[Tornado]

Hope PD isn't paying attention to this thread when they realise they could've apparantly just re-released an upgraded GT4 with a few new features like online, etc. to satisfy some fans......

Whatever happened to progress, why even invest in a new generation of hardware when a previous gen game will suffice?
And why bother to play it on HD when the graphics are supposedly irrelevant?

That's going quite a bit too far. PD could have lifted car models lifted directly from GT4 and GT3 and not made any new models for the game (and not even the Photomode models, either. I'm talking the texture dot-ridden, crappy-wheeled race models) and GT5 would still be a considerable step forward from those two games.

 

[Forgetful]

Hope PD isn't paying attention to this thread when they realise they could've apparantly just re-released an upgraded GT4 with a few new features like online, etc. to satisfy some fans......

2,3 years ago, that would have been awesome.

Whatever happened to progress, why even invest in a new generation of hardware when a previous gen game will suffice?
And why bother to play it on HD when the graphics are supposedly irrelevant?

Over 200 cars, and over 20 (apparently even 40) new locations, all in detail that bewilders... No progress made? How long does it take to write physics calculations that make the best use of the PS3's processing power?

The standard cars do not suffice, the same way a bowl of gravy isn't very satisfying on its own, no matter how good the gravy. But on top of a great meal, it makes it amazing.

This is just spinning things beyond belief......some would probably make themselves like anything as long as it's labelled PD.

Some will never be happy. Some will never sit back and appreciate what has been accomplished. With appreciation should come respect for the limits of time, technology and business.

Go look at some 18mp photomode shots.

 

[analog]

I think my last post was left behind on the last page?
I think it really summarizes the feelings of many on here.

Don't get me wrong, I like the same sort of cars and variety you like apparantly ( there are some similarities, especially the European and Japanese classics ) but I expected them to be on a new level compared to GT4, a game I loved and played to death.
I'd rather perhaps see less cars ( say, 4-500 ) on a similar level of quality and consisting of a large variety if it meant the game on a whole would be more coherent and consistent.
Especially since this is the first full game on PS3 I wasn't expecting the same amount of cars they offered in GT4.
But anyway, if you're content with 800 cars without cockpit view and other features then your wishes are granted, it's people like me I guess who were expecting more from a company like PD after 5 years who draw the short straw.

Edit, to clarify my previous post, I didn't meant to say GT5 hasn't delivered progress ( which it obviously did on most fronts ).
I was merely reacting to those who seemed to be fully content with what's already in GT4.
Expecting progress was merely aimed at those, not at the game itself.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Don't get me wrong, I like the same sort of cars and variety you like apparantly ( there are some similarities, especially the European and Japanese classics ) but I expected them to be on a new level compared to GT4, a game I loved and played to death.
I'd rather perhaps see less cars ( say, 4-500 ) on a similar level of quality and consisting of a large variety if it meant the game on a whole would be more coherent and consistent.
Especially since this is the first full game on PS3 I wasn't expecting the same amount of cars they offered in GT4.
But anyway, if you're content with 800 cars without cockpit view and other features then your wishes are granted, it's people like me I guess who were expecting more from a company like PD after 5 years who draw the short straw.

Exactly what I was thinking all the time.

 

[opladener]

Don't get me wrong, I like the same sort of cars and variety you like apparantly ( there are some similarities, especially the European and Japanese classics ) but I expected them to be on a new level compared to GT4, a game I loved and played to death.
I'd rather perhaps see less cars ( say, 4-500 ) on a similar level of quality and consisting of a large variety if it meant the game on a whole would be more coherent and consistent.
Especially since this is the first full game on PS3 I wasn't expecting the same amount of cars they offered in GT4.
But anyway, if you're content with 800 cars without cockpit view and other features then your wishes are granted, it's people like me I guess who were expecting more from a company like PD after 5 years who draw the short straw.

+1 kazillion

 

[Griffith500]

Ah, but we still don't know what PD have been working on for the last 5 years. Not all of it, at any rate.

So, if my last post was too subtle:

Perhaps people shouldn't judge the inclusion of standard cars until we know (and have experienced) the totality of the context into which they are included...

Why weren't GT2 assets "ported" to GT3 to bolster its relatively meagre complement of cars? (answer: we don't know.)



There's no need for the "epitaphs" (e.g. "I expected more"), hysterics or PD-bashing (fashionable though it is); simply measured resolve and a fair tongue. Don't act like the state of our knowledge is definitive just yet, eh?

 

[JDMKING13]

Don't get me wrong, I like the same sort of cars and variety you like apparantly ( there are some similarities, especially the European and Japanese classics ) but I expected them to be on a new level compared to GT4, a game I loved and played to death.
I'd rather perhaps see less cars ( say, 4-500 ) on a similar level of quality and consisting of a large variety if it meant the game on a whole would be more coherent and consistent.
Especially since this is the first full game on PS3 I wasn't expecting the same amount of cars they offered in GT4.
But anyway, if you're content with 800 cars without cockpit view and other features then your wishes are granted, it's people like me I guess who were expecting more from a company like PD after 5 years who draw the short straw.

Edit, to clarify my previous post, I didn't meant to say GT5 hasn't delivered progress ( which it obviously did on most fronts ).
I was merely reacting to those who seemed to be fully content with what's already in GT4.
Expecting progress was merely aimed at those, not at the game itself.

So new physics, physical damage, mechanical damge, rollover, better graphics, Its not a new level to you? You must have a different version of GT4 than me. Can i borrow that version you got We haven't even heard the rest of the game features bro and you are throwing the towel in. I will agree with the cockpit issue, that makes me sad i cannot drive in my beloved cockpit view but i still will keep hope they will be in there. If not, bumper cam is cool Im not going to let a camera view be the judge of a whole game. I feel we got way better cars than GT4 man. Im sorry you feel they are on the same level as GT4 for PS2.

"But anyway, if you're content with 800 cars without cockpit view and other features then your wishes are granted"

This is not spinning? i'm pretty sure the game has way more to offer than that man wow.

 

[maxpontiac]

Hope PD isn't paying attention to this thread when they realise they could've apparantly just re-released an upgraded GT4 with a few new features like online, etc. to satisfy some fans......

Whatever happened to progress, why even invest in a new generation of hardware when a previous gen game will suffice?
And why bother to play it on HD when the graphics are supposedly irrelevant?

This is just spinning things beyond belief......some would probably make themselves like anything as long as it's labelled PD.

Ironically, I hope PD isn't paying attention to this thread as well. I would hate to see PD delay the game due to a few posters that can't get over the "standard-premium" issues.

Hopefully PD understands that a few unhappy forum posters doesn't equal the millions of GT5 customers.

If it bothers you that much, perhaps GT5 is not the game for you.

 

[Griffith500]

Just as an aside, so far only GT3 has disappointed me. Clearly a new platform brings tons more work into the equation, and part of GT4's development was probably "catching up" to the legacy of GT2 (still not there yet, in my opinion - but I am "emotionally" connected to that particular game.) I was even grateful of the concept games between GT3 and GT4, and GT4. I loved Fuji and Citta di Aria in that game; the physics weren't as "good" in GT4 proper in my opinion, either.

Maybe Kaz doesn't want to have to catch up (as much) with GT6, so he's allowing some of GT4's legacy, that otherwise would be omitted (much to my disappointment), to carry over until it can be properly re-rendered for the new platform. He's done one platform switch already, maybe this time he's playing it a bit wiser? Who knows.

Don't look at it from the standpoint of them "wasting time" to convert the standards, either. Frankly, saying that 800 converted cars is worth (in terms of development time) an additional 200 - 300 premium cars (100 - 150 % extra!) is actually misguided to the point of hilarity (misguided in the sense, that if you can convince yourself that you know how long it took them to convert the cars, you are a very special individual indeed...)

If you want to be angry, think about GTPSP (yet another new platform) or 3D, facetracking, all the new circuits (I fear for GT2 / GT4's legacy here, too - there's always DLC ) - all of which robbed time from GT5's development; and these were scratch-built, to boot.

 

[analog]

There's no need for the "epitaphs" (e.g. "I expected more"), hysterics or PD-bashing (fashionable though it is); simply measured resolve and a fair tongue. Don't act like the state of our knowledge is definitive just yet, eh?

Okay headmaster Griffith500 ( that sounds a bit sci-fi-esque and disturbing ), it won't happen again as the state of our collective knowledge on this whole issue is indeed not definitive but I'm just expressing concern on a topic which does tend to lean towards the negative regarding the recent info in my opinion.

So new physics, physical damage, mechanical damge, rollover, better graphics, Its not a new level to you? You must have a different version of GT4 than me. Can i borrow that version you got

The game on a whole is ofcourse going to be on a new level hopefully and the new physics-engine, damage, rollover, etc. and new features perhaps not announced yet will make it a must buy for me.
The main issue which made me refer to GT4 is the Standard cars issue and most of all the possible lack of cockpit view ( something we share ).

 

[Griffith500]

I honestly don't know why they don't just hack in the cockpit view from GTPSP for the standard cars. Make double use of the development time. Remember his tweet saying (paraphrased) "hmmm, we could do that..." as in "Why didn't I think of that?!!"

It's far from perfect, but it might tempt me to use it, if cockpit view is "fixed" from Prologue / adjustable.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

Hope PD isn't paying attention to this thread when they realise they could've apparantly just re-released an upgraded GT4 with a few new features like online, etc. to satisfy some fans......

Whatever happened to progress, why even invest in a new generation of hardware when a previous gen game will suffice?
And why bother to play it on HD when the graphics are supposedly irrelevant?

This is just spinning things beyond belief......some would probably make themselves like anything as long as it's labelled PD.

I've said this many times and I shall repeat it again. From what we know of GT5 this is going to be far more than an upgraded GT4. All these features and the whole GT5 package is what im looking forward to which is why im not obsessed with this standard/premium car debate. I could actually ask some of you why are you bothering to buy GT5 because the only feature some of you are interested in is the graphics.

The main features im looking forward to are.

1. Online. Already seen screenshots how impressive the online features are in this game. Many are yet to be confirmed.

2. Racing on some of the amazing tracks we have seen from E3 2010 i.e Madrid, Rome.

3. Track editor which has now been confirmed in two different magazines.

4. Weather. Again this has been confirmed in two different magazines.

Now GT5 is going to be my first racing game that I played using a wheel/cockpit. I often daydream that im playing GT5 online against 15 of my friends using my set up on a stunning track like Madrid with the rain pouring down.

If you notice the above is all about one thing and that is racing. Guess what ,and some of you will have to prepare yourselves! Gran Turismo 5 is a racing game. So it isn't a case of being happy with an upgraded GT4 because GT5 offers so much more than this.

 

[JDMKING13]

I honestly don't know why they don't just hack in the cockpit view from GTPSP for the standard cars. Make double use of the development time. Remember his tweet saying (paraphrased) "hmmm, we could do that..." as in "Why didn't I think of that?!!"

It's far from perfect, but it might tempt me to use it, if cockpit view is "fixed" from Prologue / adjustable.

Griffith I just dont understand how they can get some type of cockpit view for a little GT PSP and not for the PS3 GT5. I hope we get something man.

 

[Spagetti69]

Ivor I agree with you about the graphics.
For me it's not about graphics. M
PD however have allways previously put them at the forefront.
Seems strange to be talking about GTs full debut on the newest gen console, and saying nevermind if the graphics are poor.

What I'm missing out on is a certain veiw. I'd go as far as to say that I'd give up weather for all internal cockpits.

I know alot of you would poo poo that idea.
That's my opinion however.

 

[TallPaul]

If interiors for standard cars like in GTPSP aren't included at launch, surely they could add them later via a patch, much like they did with GT5 (specII, III etc)?

In fact I'd be surprised if they didn't add extra features like this over the lifetime of the game, and interiors may just be one of the first things they add, hopefully!

 

[Spagetti69]

Having a generic dash could cause problems with manufacturers not wanting there interiors perceived that way.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

If interiors for standard cars like in GTPSP aren't included at launch, surely they could add them later via a patch, much like they did with GT5 (specII, III etc)?

In fact I'd be surprised if they didn't add extra features like this over the lifetime of the game, and interiors may just be one of the first things they add, hopefully!

I must admit im very uncertain how GT5 will be supported after release. I hope they do but then I wonder whether they will instantly start working on GT6. I think the latter will be the case after a short break.

 

[eSZee]

You're only limiting yourself that way. If you were a car enthusiast you would want to drive the most accurate form of the Lancia Stratos there was, which is the GT5 standard version.

Excuse me? What? Please don't bring that weak crap in here.

 

[Forgetful]

I've always been adamant that the 'bumper cam' in GT is actually the best representation of the viewing angle you would have if your wheel is actually in your hands, and your TV is a few feet away.

GT put the bumper cam in the perfect place... at the drivers eye level, with the vertical plane of your TV directly over the front wheels of the car. It is just the nose of the car that exists in the screen in front of you, at the same distance away from your eyes the nose of a real car would be.

In the cockpit cam the vertical plane of your TV is at the drivers eye. What exists a few feet in to the screen is the wheel and dashboard of your car. That vertical plane already exists right in front of you, at arms length. You've now doubled up the gap between the driver and the wheel.

So, to make that all relevant to the topic... cockpit view is a complete novelty for me. I like it for the replays (and photomode, when we get GT5), but I don't drive with it.

 

[Spagetti69]

Think probably GT6 would feature about 400/500 premiums.
Maybe bringing up 200/300 previous models to premium level.
Also some recent cars too.

That's my speculation.