YSSMAN is crazy.

[nd 4 holden spd]

I think you Americans will love the G8, I can't see it becoming a cult classic like it is in Australia but it should be in the top ten of your sales excluding trucks, maybe the top 5.

 

[Casio]

I think you Americans will love the G8, I can't see it becoming a cult classic like it is in Australia but it should be in the top ten of your sales excluding trucks, maybe the top 5.

So what?

-Camry
-Accord
-Corolla
-Civic
-Ponitac G8?
-Impala
-Altima

Dream on.

 

[YSSMAN]

A sales "success" in the US for the G8 would mean that all 15,000 or so of them are sold each year. That shouldn't be too difficult to do, given that its replacing a pretty popular car, and the die-hard GM/Pontiac fans will be likely to gobble them up. When press is positive, it helps, and so far, I haven't read much to make it seem otherwise.

As of right now, I think we're looking at importing 15,000 G8s per year (variable), as well as 5000 G8 ST models (read Ute), which is variable as well. We won't be getting the G8 X Sportwagon as originally thought (thanks to Dodge for killing the Magnum), but thats okay.

We're also still waiting to hear if Zeta production (should there be a Buick or a Chevy) will go to Oshwa where the Camaro will be built, or to Lansing, where they currently build everything else thats "cool" (outside of the new Malibu, Kappas). Depends. There is even talk that we may build Zetas for the Aussie market altogether.

Damn GM for not knowing what they're doing. Which reminds me, I should probably discuss this further in the Zeta thread that we already have going...

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Those are your top 5 cars? That sucks, you Americans need to reacquaint yourself with a little thing called style. The Impala is there though so it might make the top 10.

 

[Casio]

Those are your top 5 cars? That sucks, you Americans need to reacquaint yourself with a little thing called style. The Impala is there though so it might make the top 10.

Compared to what? Us?

That's 2006, I believe the Falcon has been overtaken again by the Mazda 3. And the Commodore would not be on top if it wasn't for fleet/government sales which probably make up at least 50% of sales.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

The whole world sucks, but at least Commodore and Falcon are there. Stupid environment. If I had a genie and 3 wishes...............

 

[YSSMAN]

Those are your top 5 cars? That sucks, you Americans need to reacquaint yourself with a little thing called style. The Impala is there though so it might make the top 10.

Thank the baby-boomers who control the economy now. They want cars that are affordable, reliable, easy to drive, and most importantly; Comfortable. Toyota has gone from a "youthful" and "spunky" company in the US (as late as 1999, almost) to easily the brand of the geriatric department. I want to say that the average owner of a Toyota is well-north of 50, and they're doing damn-well.

Cars like the Camry, Accord, Taurus and Impala dominate because they appeal to these people. They don't want a car that is nice looking, performs well, or God forbid has any passion in it whatsoever; They just want a damn car.

Americans forgot a long, long time ago that its good to buy your own stuff. Unfortunately, GM (and the like) forgot how to make good cars that Americans would want to buy (case in point, this Impala in the first post). Then the Japanese pulled a fast one, and now Americans are building nice cars again. Case in point:

Its amazing how a little effort in design, engineering, and a little extra cash in the interior can make an otherwise obscure model topple the Camry and Accord again, and again, and again in comparison tests. Chevrolet can't build enough of them right now, they had no intention of having this car be a 'hit' with the folks. Although I like mid-size sedans (its an odd fetish I have, just like my 911 thing), this usually wouldn't be my type (VW Passat is), but I'd buy this in a heartbeat.

We can build excellent cars, we will build excellent cars, and I don't think it will be long before we start seeing more American cars dominating the top-five again.

 

[McLaren]

Those are your top 5 cars? That sucks, you Americans need to reacquaint yourself with a little thing called style. The Impala is there though so it might make the top 10.

Americans don't care about the style. They care about fuel efficient cars that are cheap. That's why the Civic, Corolla, & other Japanese cars sell well here.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Yes, I wish we had the Malibu in Oz to be honest- just look at it, damn sexy if you ask me (certainly at least for a mid-sized sedan) And don't forget the Aura Green Line either, hybrid, good looks, good interior, car of the year I believe (that's right aint it?)

These cars kill the Camry and especially the Accord (I hate that car with a passion, even with the front seat as far back as possible my legs are crammed into the glove box/steering wheel, and the driving position really sucks too) and all others, but still people buy the Camry........ You know an automatic Camry, and the transmission in it goes just after the warranty expires? It's true, heaps of mechanics have told me. There's a few thousand bucks down the drain because Toyota is nowhere near as good as people think. I'd go with a modern GM product for reliablilty every time.

 

[Azuremen]

I'm nearly 2 meters tall and I can drive my parents Accord just fine, so I have no idea what you are talking about there.

You are brainwashed if you honestly think a GM product will beat a Toyota or a Honda in reliability.

In my opinion, the new Malibu looks like ass, but thats just me. The Camry and Accord sell so well here for a few reasons: Price, reliability, and gas mileage. Similar reasons as to why I normally drive a Corolla around.

GM still has yet to make a great car on their own, from what I can recall (well, the Solstice/Sky) but all their good, sellable products like the Aura and up coming G8 are sourced from over seas.

 

[V1P3R]

Funny thread. I kinda figured Yssman was crazy.

nd 4 holden spd if it weren't for Holden I'd laugh at you aussies. lol

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Funny thread. I kinda figured Yssman was crazy.

nd 4 holden spd if it weren't for Holden I'd laugh at you aussies. lol

So......you like Holdens?

Originally Posted by Azuremen
I'm nearly 2 meters tall and I can drive my parents Accord just fine, so I have no idea what you are talking about there.

You are brainwashed if you honestly think a GM product will beat a Toyota or a Honda in reliability.

In my opinion, the new Malibu looks like ass, but thats just me. The Camry and Accord sell so well here for a few reasons: Price, reliability, and gas mileage. Similar reasons as to why I normally drive a Corolla around.

GM still has yet to make a great car on their own, from what I can recall (well, the Solstice/Sky) but all their good, sellable products like the Aura and up coming G8 are sourced from over seas.

Maybe you get a bigger Accord in the states? The one we get is pathetic. Isn't a Malibu cheaper than a Camry? And the hybrid Aura would get way better mileage than a Camry. Plus like I said, I've been told by a number of mechanics (you know the guys that fix cars when they have a problem) that Toyotas are actually quite dodgy. As soon as their warranty expires bam- they get loads of issues. And what was that about Toyota re-calling 5.7L Tundras because of camshafts snapping? Then of course the only 1 million mile cars you ever see are either German or American cars. But all it really ever come down to is this: Treat your car well and it will treat you well in return. Most cars will last way longer than you'll ever need them for without big issues. So for the time I do own them I'd rather own a stylish affordable one from GM. Ford is good too, but Toyotas and Hondas? Nah, they're just crap.

 

[V1P3R]

So......you like Holdens?

Yes, yes I do.

 

[Keef]

I had to live with one of these Impalas for four years.

And we have...a G6. Better, but not much better.

 

[Jim Prower]

I'm crazier than YSSMAN, as I'd still take a Mopar LX over a Zeta. But, I digress.

I'm pretty bummed that Chevy isn't getting a Zeta in the U.S, and If I were a Chevy dealer, I'd order some G8s, import some Middle-East-market Lumina grilles, stick on some Impala SS badges from the crash part bin, and call it a day. Hell, with the G8 ST, I'd call up Original Parts Group for a full compliment of '70 El Camino SS badges.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Yes, yes I do.

I think you're the second person on this site that I've found (other than people with something to do with Holden in their name) that likes Holdens. Judging by the BMW in your avatar Holden may have severe competition as your outright favourite though
Jim Prower, you sound like you might be interested in the zeta platform thread in auto news. It's pretty much a GM news central now by the look of it as most of GM's platforms are global.

 

[Jim Prower]

I've been writing in there, and I've held that view in there before.

 

[TopHat]

Maybe you get a bigger Accord in the states?

We get both Accords. The TSX is the Euro Accord, and that's pretty much near-compact sized here. Our Accord is this disgusting mess:

I'll admit this: The coupe is damn sexy.

Isn't a Malibu cheaper than a Camry? And the hybrid Aura would get way better mileage than a Camry.

The Malibu actually starts $1,200 higher than the Camry, but no-one buys a Camry with that level of equipment. Normally, the Malibu has more value than the Camry. The Aura/Malibu hybrid's fuel economy benefits are slim, and the Hybrid Camry is an actual hybrid. Wait till GM introduces the Two-Mode Malibu and Aura...

Plus like I said, I've been told by a number of mechanics (you know the guys that fix cars when they have a problem) that Toyotas are actually quite dodgy. As soon as their warranty expires bam- they get loads of issues.

They're still fairly reliable here, but the build quality is in the toilet. The Camry's I've sat in were all rattle-traps, and these are new models mind you.

And what was that about Toyota re-calling 5.7L Tundras because of camshafts snapping? Then of course the only 1 million mile cars you ever see are either German or American cars.

Toyota rushed the development of that engine, and it was really half-baked. You only see million mile cars from around there because Japanese cars from about 10-25 years ago had a wonderful tendency to rust. But here's a saying I've heard around here: American cars will run like crap from 75K miles on, but they're damn near unstoppable. Japanese cars will all go out at around 130K.

But all it really ever come down to is this: Treat your car well and it will treat you well in return. Most cars will last way longer than you'll ever need them for without big issues.

Case in point: My grandparents bought a 1968 Plymouth Fury I wagon brand new, and cars then didn't last much longer than what, 80K miles? That car kept on going, with its original engine and powertrain (Slant Six baby!) until the mid-eighties. When they sold it, it had somewhere around 350K miles! Afterwards, they would still see the car around town. What a tank that thing must've been.

So for the time I do own them I'd rather own a stylish affordable one from GM. Ford is good too, but Toyotas and Hondas? Nah, they're just crap.

While I agree with you about rather owning a GM over a Japanese car, and my personal bias against Toyota, they're still reasonably well put together, and cheap and easy to fix. Perfectly fine for the vanilla oatmeal masses.

 

[Thirdeye]

We get both Accords. The TSX is the Euro Accord, and that's pretty much near-compact sized here. Our Accord is this disgusting mess:

I'll admit this: The coupe is damn sexy.



The Malibu actually starts $1,200 higher than the Camry, but no-one buys a Camry with that level of equipment. Normally, the Malibu has more value than the Camry. The Aura/Malibu hybrid's fuel economy benefits are slim, and the Hybrid Camry is an actual hybrid. Wait till GM introduces the Two-Mode Malibu and Aura...




They're still fairly reliable here, but the build quality is in the toilet. The Camry's I've sat in were all rattle-traps, and these are new models mind you.



Toyota rushed the development of that engine, and it was really half-baked. You only see million mile cars from around there because Japanese cars from about 10-25 years ago had a wonderful tendency to rust. But here's a saying I've heard around here: American cars will run like crap from 75K miles on, but they're damn near unstoppable. Japanese cars will all go out at around 130K.




Case in point: My grandparents bought a 1968 Plymouth Fury I wagon brand new, and cars then didn't last much longer than what, 80K miles? That car kept on going, with its original engine and powertrain (Slant Six baby!) until the mid-eighties. When they sold it, it had somewhere around 350K miles! Afterwards, they would still see the car around town. What a tank that thing must've been.



While I agree with you about rather owning a GM over a Japanese car, and my personal bias against Toyota, they're still reasonably well put together, and cheap and easy to fix. Perfectly fine for the vanilla oatmeal masses.

I'll respectfully disagree with you on a number of points:

1.) Japanese cars will not all die at 130k, that is a very uneducated opinion. Take care of a car and it'll last a long time, well past 130k. Be it American, German or Japanese. Hell, I know plenty of Hondas with well over 250,000 miles. Mine alone has over 135,000 and runs like new, not a rattle in the car. Hasn't given me a single problem since I've owned it. Not one.

2.) The new Accord is hardly a mess. I think it looks a million times better than the boring Accords of late. Plus the engine seems to be great, and I like the interior.

 

[V1P3R]

I think you're the second person on this site that I've found (other than people with something to do with Holden in their name) that likes Holdens. Judging by the BMW in your avatar Holden may have severe competition as your outright favourite though

Nothing is gonna replace the love I have for the Viper but currently I can't get enough of the M3 and Holdens have always been an underdog feeling here for me. They would be a lot better than the crap that's here anyway.

 

[TopHat]

1.) Japanese cars will not all die at 130k, that is a very uneducated opinion. Take care of a car and it'll last a long time, well past 130k. Be it American, German or Japanese. Hell, I know plenty of Hondas with well over 250,000 miles. Mine alone has over 135,000 and runs like new, not a rattle in the car. Hasn't given me a single problem since I've owned it. Not one.

2.) The new Accord is hardly a mess. I think it looks a million times better than the boring Accords of late. Plus the engine seems to be great, and I like the interior.

1) It was an exaggeration, fear not. I'm not that idiotic. My Grandmothers (same one) Camry has 128K on it... but it's just starting to go now! Needs alot of new stuff, like brakes, and a steering rack. But it's been very reliable, without any out-of-place problems. Nice car too.

2)I'm gonna disagree. The old Accord was clean looking and quite handsome, especially after the tail-lift.

 

[YSSMAN]

You are brainwashed if you honestly think a GM product will beat a Toyota or a Honda in reliability.

...Points to the 1991 Chevrolet Silverado with 1,000,000 miles on it...

"Most GM cars will run horribly longer than most cars will run at all"

GM still has yet to make a great car on their own, from what I can recall (well, the Solstice/Sky) but all their good, sellable products like the Aura and up coming G8 are sourced from over seas.

I'd still say that its irrelevant. Whether its designed by engineers in America, Germany or Australia, they're still GM engineers. Doesn't matter really...

=====

EDIT:

Hey Holden, do the GM kids a favor and only talk about GM's Two-Mode hybrids and the E-Flex system. The "Single-Mode" system in the Aura is a joke, simply put.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Yes YSSMAN, me so solly I'm not into hybrids that much (maybe because there aren't any in Australia 💡 )

TopHat, I think we only get the Euro Accord here in Oz, that Accord you have pictured above looks like a giant compared the Euro thing we get. Europeans must be tiny

 

[Azuremen]

stuff

I happen to have owned 5 Toyotas. And I do all my own work at this point. I happen to have about half a dozen friends that each own several Toyotas. They are not that dodgy. Don't insult me again by acting as if I don't know know what a mechanic is, okay?

YSSMAN, the "well this one car made by so and so lasted this long, so it makes everyone of their cars great" analogy. Its horrible logic. And the bit about foreign engineer and such. GM just bought the companies, they really aren't GM's engineers. The American companies have forgotten how to engineer and build quality because most Americans will happily buy complete crap because they don't do research or car.

Their daddy bought a Chevy, so they'll buy a Chevy by golly.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I happen to have owned 5 Toyotas. And I do all my own work at this point. I happen to have about half a dozen friends that each own several Toyotas. They are not that dodgy. Don't insult me again by acting as if I don't know know what a mechanic is, okay?

YSSMAN, the "well this one car made by so and so lasted this long, so it makes everyone of their cars great" analogy. Its horrible logic. And the bit about foreign engineer and such. GM just bought the companies, they really aren't GM's engineers. The American companies have forgotten how to engineer and build quality because most Americans will happily buy complete crap because they don't do research or car.

Their daddy bought a Chevy, so they'll buy a Chevy by golly.

OK, your analogy of GM is just horrible logic. And I didn't mean it to come across as insulting you about not knowing what a mechanic is so I'm sorry. And as much as you don't want to believe it they are GM's engineers, there are Americans, Australians and Europeans spread right throughout all GM's brands.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

GM still has yet to make a great car on their own, from what I can recall (well, the Solstice/Sky) but all their good, sellable products like the Aura and up coming G8 are sourced from over seas.

CTS?

...Points to the 1991 Chevrolet Silverado with 1,000,000 miles on it...

"Most GM cars will run horribly longer than most cars will run at all"

I'm pretty sure there have been stories of million mile Civics and Accords going around.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Actually there is an entire club for Chevy trucks with high mileage so

The new CTS is an awesome car, as is the Commodore (for its size especially). If you are a tradesman and need a heavy duty truck, it's gotta be American (even Toyota need a Chevy to carry their NASCARs around). Corvette isn't good? Err, I'm pretty sure that beats cars twice its own price tag. The new ZR-1 will beat just about anything probably. The new Malibu is good, the Astra is a good small car, the new Camaro will be awesome- do you want me to continue?

 

[YSSMAN]

YSSMAN, the "well this one car made by so and so lasted this long, so it makes everyone of their cars great" analogy. Its horrible logic. And the bit about foreign engineer and such. GM just bought the companies, they really aren't GM's engineers. The American companies have forgotten how to engineer and build quality because most Americans will happily buy complete crap because they don't do research or car.

I do think that you're neglecting the fact that GM has owned Opel/Vauxhall and Holden for longer than Toyotas have been on sale in the United States. Furthermore, GM is a global company, and while these companies had in fact operated under independent umbrellas up until a few years ago, you do have to admit that it makes sense to pool your resources and let the respective areas do what they do best...

The Americans have to a large extent forgotten how to build and engineer proper vehicles, I'll give you that. But, clearly, Ford and GM have reversed that greatly by working with their various global arms, consolidating them into a single company... As it should be! Let the Americans do the engines and transmissions, let the Germans get the proper chassis tune right, let the Asians work on the refinement. It all makes for a better car in the end.

Even you have to admit that GM (and Ford) are far better off now by comparison to even five years ago... They are almost completely different companies.

Their daddy bought a Chevy, so they'll buy a Chevy by golly.

Brand loyalty is a good thing, I'm sorry you don't feel that way. I was raised in a GM household, a Chevrolet family, and yet I drive Volkswagens because I prefer their ride/handling bias. But even then, I catch a lot of flak because they're horrible cars too.

I guess its bad to be proud of your country's cars and trucks. Especially when your State's entire livelihood revolves around it. I've had family that has worked in the automotive industry for more than four decades, for all three of the big companies, so I'm attached. I can't help it that its the culture of Michigan that has made me so...

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Let the Americans do the engines and transmissions, let the Germans get the proper chassis tune right, let the Asians work on the refinement. It all makes for a better car in the end.

Don't you mean let the Euros get the style right, the Americans get the engines right and the Australians do the chassis engineering right?

Brand loyalty is a good thing, I'm sorry you don't feel that way. I was raised in a GM household, a Chevrolet family, and yet I drive Volkswagens because I prefer their ride/handling bias. But even then, I catch a lot of flak because they're horrible cars too.

I never grew up with a loyalty brand, and if anything it was Toyota. I chose Holden and GM because they appeal to me the most, they were the coolest.

 

[YSSMAN]

Don't you mean let the Euros get the style right, the Americans get the engines right and the Australians do the chassis engineering right?

It could go either way with the chassis tuning. Give the Europeans the FWD/AWD cars, let the Aussies sort out the RWD. We Americans can handle the trucks and crossovers easily. Its pretty much shaking out that way anyhow. Daewoo just fiddles with the cheap stuff...