YSSMAN's Infinite Crisis: Blackest Night (Post #816)

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I drove a 2003 6i with the "autostick" transmission and it felt like it had a decent amount of "go" under hood. Its what, 160 BHP? Either way, its faster than my current car. As I recall the interior was really nice and I really liked the seats, but the dashboard felt a little cheap. I'll keep an eye out for one though, if I can find one for cheap I'd love to get it.
 
Don't forget its sexy hatchback Mazda3 cousin if you can find one cheap enough.
 
I did find a rather sexy Protege5 nearby for about $9000 (it was a black 2003 with a stick), but I'm not sure if its exactly what I want. I drove one a few years back and liked it very much as well, so I may track this one down and give it a shot. It looks like it was a repo through one of the local banks, and it otherwise looked to be in good order.

If I go to the Mazda dealer, I may walk in and see what kind of game they could play on a 3i sedan. I like the look, don't need anything fancy.
 
YSSMAN
If I go to the Mazda dealer, I may walk in and see what kind of game they could play on a 3i sedan. I like the look, don't need anything fancy.
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My buddy got one for around $15,000. Of course, he works for the dealer and got a discount, but I'm sure you could get a lightly used 3i for around that or cheaper. I don't know what his payments are, but the car is great. I don't know if you've ever driven one before, but Sage and I will tell you that it's a great car for fun drives, long drives, short drives, rough drives, smooth drives, and whatever. Sage will also tell you I've got my fair share of gripes, like the clutch pedal that's lighter than my foot, the cable shifter that sucks, and...that's about it. The interior is quite high quality, and obviously the car looks amazing. You'd like it.
 
I've sat in quite a few but never driven one. I seem to recall them having on the lots for really cheap, not much over $14K before, but I haven't seen very many used ones around. There was a blue 3s Hatch a few weeks back, but I'm uncertain if they sold it... It had a slushbox, so I was generally uninterested after finding that out.

I think the big deal is that I'm looking for a car payment (for the car itself) for $235 or less (preferably), as most cars it seem will be in that magic $120-130 range with full coverage. I thought about it, and $230 gets you a decent lease on a car, but I don't think I want to get into the new car game any time soon. We'll see what happens. I gotta be healthy enough to walk around on the lots first. And the weather has to get better too.
 
What about a 1998-1999 Volvo V70R. They're a riot to drive.

v70awd.jpg
 
sn00pie
What about a 1998-1999 Volvo V70R. They're a riot to drive.
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They made them in 2000, too. Really the '98-'00 model was just an S70 T5 except in wagon form and with all-wheel drive (and a very slight power bump). Cool, but nowhere near as cool as the beast that followed it.
 
I would not be opposed to the Volvo if I could find one for cheap, and one nearby. I'm going to give it a few weeks to get everything sorted out, I wouldn't be doing anything (presumably) until I get my taxes done this weekend. I have to go and pick up Jenna tomorrow (hopefully), and get her moved to my Dad's house. Then we'll go from there...

As for what I've found locally, I came across two big surprises that I should be able to afford:

2002 Acura TL Type-S
19UUA56882A003252_1.jpg


- $11,000
- 70,000 miles
- Its in Traverse City (three hours due north), but they'll bring it down if I want it.

Pros: Seem to be fairly reliable in general, luxurious, should have a good balance of "sport" and "comfort" out of the box

Cons: Insurance is likely to be expensive, I've heard of some EPIC transmission problems (replacements every 30,000 miles), not sure if they'll play the pricing game

2003 Jetta Wolfsburg 1.8T 5MT
3VWPE69M03M188302_2.JPG


- $11,900
- 78,000 miles
- 1.8T engine, 180 BHP

Pros: Its a Volkswagen, so I know what I'm getting into for the most part. The 2003+ models were much more reliable than years before it, and this has a good amount of kit on it

Cons: Its a Volkswagen, so I know what I'm getting into for the most part. Its a bit expensive too, but I may be able to talk them down a bit if I compare it to a smaller VW lot with the same car.

2003 Jetta GLS 1.8T
3VWSE69M43M190970_1(1).jpg


- $11,400
- Mileage Unlisted (one expects it to be in the 70K range)
- Fully-loaded (heated leather seats, Monsoon stereo with SCV, moonroof, 17" wheels, ESP)

Pros: This is VW's luxury car for the most part, and it still has a slight sporty side as well. Its in my price range if they're willing to cut the price a little bit, and one really likes the extras that have been kicked-in.

Cons: Its a 5-speed Tiptronic, but I may make the sacrifice for the rest of the family who otherwise can't handle VW transmissions (clutch is too high, blah blah blah). I'd be worried about gizmos breaking too, but reliability is up pretty high starting in 2003.


====

I'm going to start shopping tomorrow (health permitting), so I'll update with photos and such for what I find.
 
YSSMAN
Pros: Seem to be fairly reliable in general, luxurious, should have a good balance of "sport" and "comfort" out of the box

Cons: Insurance is likely to be expensive, I've heard of some EPIC transmission problems (replacements every 30,000 miles), not sure if they'll play the pricing game
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I considered a TL-S before I bought my A4. Transmission problems are more than epic - I heard of a guy who went through two in one day (no joke). But, if you find a sorted one (mind you, I have no idea how to do this) it's possible that won't be an issue.

Insider's tip: since the cars (base and TL-S) used the same engine, Acura saw no need to differentiate between the base and TL-S VIN numbers. As a result, insurance companies cannot tell the difference between a base model TL and a TL-S - nor do they know you're doing 0-60 in 7.0sec rather than 8.3 for the dull, 190-horsepower version. :) Using this tip is up to you - possible consequences are very small - but if you do get that car, get a mod to delete this post.
 
Yeah, the transmissions scare the pants off of me. I'll likely stay away from that if at all possible, its too risky in the end. The local VW dealer has a CL-S from the same year with over 100K on the clock for $9000, but I'd rate that as "dangerous" too.
 
So are you going to buy a G8 or what?
 
Not enough cash for a G8 unfortunately, although I'd certainly like to. I'm very highly considering that last Jetta there on the bottom of post #251, but that all depends on what kind of pricing game they're willing to play and how much insurance will end up costing. Furthermore, how much money I'll even be able to get for my old blown-out Jetta anyway.

Recovering from surgery, I can't do much moving around and such, so I doubt I'll be able to get anything new for a week or so. We'll see, I'm going to make some phone calls today to get a rough idea on some car prices and go from there.
 
I heard that the earlier Japanese luxury cars were a pain for reliability. I talked to somebody and he said the car was inexpensive to buy, but very costly to own. I don't know how sorted those issues were by 2002 though. That Jetta GLS is a good looking car too.
 
philly cheese
I heard that the earlier Japanese luxury cars were a pain for reliability. I talked to somebody and he said the car was inexpensive to buy, but very costly to own. I don't know how sorted those issues were by 2002 though. That Jetta GLS is a good looking car too.
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The early GS300 and I30 were quite reliable. I had an early ES300 and it was junk. But, with the price range he is in he can get a pretty good choice of vehicles in good shape.
 
Yeah, that Acura is a no-go. I talked to a salesman for a short period of time before his phone cut out about the Jetta and he seemed pretty excited that someone took interest in it. Apparently out at the Alpine location everyone comes in and gobbles up the American cars/trucks, not the imports. So if I'm lucky and play my cards right, I may be able to wind the price down a bit and get it off their lot.

I called the insurance company today and they said that it would cost the same to insure as my current car (about $124), so it more or less is a matter of getting the right car payment, and I'll be happy. I'm actually most-excited about the possibility of heated leather seats and the rather comfortable/isolated ride that the MKIV provides. It will be one helluva highway cruiser. Sad to say it, I know, but I'm willing to give up a stick for a bit for the comfort and for the benefit of the other non-stick-drivers in my household.

EDIT:

Had another chat with a different salesman, says they got the car in a week ago and there has been a bit of interest in it. I'll have to talk to the bank and see what kind of loan I can get on her, and if I can talk the price down a bit, because I certainly want to act on this one. If I'm lucky they could take my car as a trade, but I don't know...
 
M5Power
They made them in 2000, too. Really the '98-'00 model was just an S70 T5 except in wagon form and with all-wheel drive (and a very slight power bump). Cool, but nowhere near as cool as the beast that followed it.
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It has a front lip, and the coolest looking wheels since ever. I prefer the old V70s over the new ones. 👍 Dutch police drive them.
 
YSSMAN
Yeah, that Acura is a no-go. I talked to a salesman for a short period of time before his phone cut out about the Jetta and he seemed pretty excited that someone took interest in it. Apparently out at the Alpine location everyone comes in and gobbles up the American cars/trucks, not the imports. So if I'm lucky and play my cards right, I may be able to wind the price down a bit and get it off their lot.
Click to expand...

Salesmen always get excited about potential buyers FYI. My advice from someone who has worked at a auto dealer in varying capacities including sales is to deal with the sales manager or fleet director directly and avoid regular salesmen at all costs. They are a lying batch of scumbags. 90% of the time the sales manager has already given the salesman 3 or more price quotes to bring to you. The highest comes first--it would be smart to say--in a nice way--"I don't have time for the back-and-forth so just give me the sales managers final price, if its not in my best interest I'll go elsewhere." Also, if you do get said "final price" and you don't care for it thank the salesman for his and the dealership's time and leave as soon as possible. turn off your cell phone--or don't answer it if they call--and do not have any contact with the dealership. They will try at least twice to get you to comeback in--but until they give you a price over the phone they aren't serious about honestly working with you.

Your best bet if you have to deal with a salesman is to...
  • Get the trade-in value, retail value, private party value, and most importantly local/national market value of the car you're interested in for bargaining purposes.
  • Know what your exactly what your down payment is going to be.
  • Use as much industry language as possible--ie holdback and voucher. If a salesman hears you use the word holdback when talking about how much the car is worth trade-in they will be on edge because they will realize that you know how the salesman and dealership gets paid. Make plenty of "pot shot" but sincere jokes about "his voucher" or "his commission" for the car.
  • Knowyour credit score...and which "tier" you belong. (1-4 or A-D depending on the lender's termonology)
  • Know what your ideal monthly budget allowance for your payment is going to be.
  • Know your insurance premium costs--monthly.
  • Know exact mechanical issues for the model(s) you're intested in--infact print them and bring them along.
  • Always always and always ask to have it for a day and take the car to a TRUSTED mechanic for a full breakdown.
  • Ask questions like, "Can I see the car up on the lift in the service bay?" or "Mind if I take it to my mechanic?" To gauge the salesman's response verbally and through body language.

And finally when everything's a go and you enter the salesman's office never sit down first. Infact try and conduct the business standing up. Most salesmen will try and use subtle tactics like the "command" seating postions by jacking his office chair as high as it can go so he can "look down" on you in a commanding posture. So stand, if he stands then you know he's playing mind games. Also, feel free to ask "Mind if I have my financial advisor attend this proceeding? I can't proceed without he/she being present." That automatically puts them into defensive mode and if they try and coax you into making the decision yourself that's another red flag for mind games.

Trust me, I could go on all day. Some of this you may know, but it goes without saying it should be said anyway.
 
Those two 1.8t jettas are real nice but aren't the 1.8t's somewhat unreliable. I hear that they often have problems. Pleas if I am wrong tell me because I would like one.
 
The 2003 4cyl turbo models have improved in build quality. Its the older late 90's through about 2002 models that really seem to be problematic.

But, if you grab a VR6 or a non-turbo model it should be rock solid. But, I'll wait for more input from YSS or anyone else who has direct experience regarding the said powerplants.
 
YSSMAN
I would not be opposed to the Volvo if I could find one for cheap, and one nearby. I'm going to give it a few weeks to get everything sorted out, I wouldn't be doing anything (presumably) until I get my taxes done this weekend. I have to go and pick up Jenna tomorrow (hopefully), and get her moved to my Dad's house. Then we'll go from there...

As for what I've found locally, I came across two big surprises that I should be able to afford:

2002 Acura TL Type-S
19UUA56882A003252_1.jpg


- $11,000
- 70,000 miles
- Its in Traverse City (three hours due north), but they'll bring it down if I want it.

Pros: Seem to be fairly reliable in general, luxurious, should have a good balance of "sport" and "comfort" out of the box

Cons: Insurance is likely to be expensive, I've heard of some EPIC transmission problems (replacements every 30,000 miles), not sure if they'll play the pricing game

2003 Jetta Wolfsburg 1.8T 5MT
3VWPE69M03M188302_2.JPG


- $11,900
- 78,000 miles
- 1.8T engine, 180 BHP

Pros: Its a Volkswagen, so I know what I'm getting into for the most part. The 2003+ models were much more reliable than years before it, and this has a good amount of kit on it

Cons: Its a Volkswagen, so I know what I'm getting into for the most part. Its a bit expensive too, but I may be able to talk them down a bit if I compare it to a smaller VW lot with the same car.

2003 Jetta GLS 1.8T
3VWSE69M43M190970_1(1).jpg


- $11,400
- Mileage Unlisted (one expects it to be in the 70K range)
- Fully-loaded (heated leather seats, Monsoon stereo with SCV, moonroof, 17" wheels, ESP)

Pros: This is VW's luxury car for the most part, and it still has a slight sporty side as well. Its in my price range if they're willing to cut the price a little bit, and one really likes the extras that have been kicked-in.

Cons: Its a 5-speed Tiptronic, but I may make the sacrifice for the rest of the family who otherwise can't handle VW transmissions (clutch is too high, blah blah blah). I'd be worried about gizmos breaking too, but reliability is up pretty high starting in 2003.


====

I'm going to start shopping tomorrow (health permitting), so I'll update with photos and such for what I find.
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The Acura is a Honda and is fast as BALLZ, the Wolfsburg is only cool because it has Wolfsburg in the name, and the GLS 1.8T is sweet. Get it. Then I'll race you.

But not the Acura cause it's blazing fast.
 
JCE
Salesmen always get excited about potential buyers FYI. My advice from someone who has worked at a auto dealer in varying capacities including sales is to deal with the sales manager or fleet director directly and avoid regular salesmen at all costs. They are a lying batch of scumbags. 90% of the time the sales manager has already given the salesman 3 or more price quotes to bring to you. The highest comes first--it would be smart to say--in a nice way--"I don't have time for the back-and-forth so just give me the sales managers final price, if its not in my best interest I'll go elsewhere." Also, if you do get said "final price" and you don't care for it thank the salesman for his and the dealership's time and leave as soon as possible. turn off your cell phone--or don't answer it if they call--and do not have any contact with the dealership. They will try at least twice to get you to comeback in--but until they give you a price over the phone they aren't serious about honestly working with you.

Your best bet if you have to deal with a salesman is to...
  • Get the trade-in value, retail value, private party value, and most importantly local/national market value of the car you're interested in for bargaining purposes.
  • Know what your exactly what your down payment is going to be.
  • Use as much industry language as possible--ie holdback and voucher. If a salesman hears you use the word holdback when talking about how much the car is worth trade-in they will be on edge because they will realize that you know how the salesman and dealership gets paid. Make plenty of "pot shot" but sincere jokes about "his voucher" or "his commission" for the car.
  • Knowyour credit score...and which "tier" you belong. (1-4 or A-D depending on the lender's termonology)
  • Know what your ideal monthly budget allowance for your payment is going to be.
  • Know your insurance premium costs--monthly.
  • Know exact mechanical issues for the model(s) you're intested in--infact print them and bring them along.
  • Always always and always ask to have it for a day and take the car to a TRUSTED mechanic for a full breakdown.
  • Ask questions like, "Can I see the car up on the lift in the service bay?" or "Mind if I take it to my mechanic?" To gauge the salesman's response verbally and through body language.

And finally when everything's a go and you enter the salesman's office never sit down first. Infact try and conduct the business standing up. Most salesmen will try and use subtle tactics like the "command" seating postions by jacking his office chair as high as it can go so he can "look down" on you in a commanding posture. So stand, if he stands then you know he's playing mind games. Also, feel free to ask "Mind if I have my financial advisor attend this proceeding? I can't proceed without he/she being present." That automatically puts them into defensive mode and if they try and coax you into making the decision yourself that's another red flag for mind games.

Trust me, I could go on all day. Some of this you may know, but it goes without saying it should be said anyway.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty good post and worth quoting. 👍 Though knowing the holdback amount only applies to new or CPO cars.

The key information to have is the dealer's true cost of a vehicle, which is his invoice minus the holdback and any incentives. Unfortunately, when you're shopping used, this is impossible to find out unless the used car manager is your best friend. This is probably why dealerships make far more money from selling used cars than new ones.


socomplayer2
Those two 1.8t jettas are real nice but aren't the 1.8t's somewhat unreliable. I hear that they often have problems. Pleas if I am wrong tell me because I would like one.
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Don't be lulled into believing everything you read. Especially on the internet.

In the spirit of that statement, I'm going to say two things:

The first is my wife and I used to have a 2003 Jetta 1.8T. And the only thing to break on the car was the weatherseals on the bulkhead, which lead to the car taking in water when it rained heavily. Otherwise it performed flawlessly for the 2 years we had it. Ours was a 5-speed manual with the sport package and I highly recommend these options 👍

Second; disregard what I have to say about 1.8T reliability. I am only one data point and anecdotal evidence is statistically un-useful. In addition, we had the car from 4 miles to about 23,000 miles and most brand new cars today are very reliable anyway.

The only places to get useful information on vehicle reliability is from a source which collects reliability data like Consumer Reports or JDPower.


M
 
From what I've read on the 2003+ 1.8T models, most of the general issues (turbos blowing out, oil sludge) had been quelled... Although I believe oil consumption is still an issue that they seem to deal with regularly. The fuel efficiency of the car is hard to ignore (24 city, 34 highway) compared to the Subarus I had been looking at (maybe 23 mpg combined), so that is a major bonus. Although it does have to run on premium, but I'll survive...

As for the dealer experience, I already talked to the sales manager over the phone yesterday (somehow they had his number posted on the internet). He seemed like a nice guy, and I let him know that I'm "disabled" a bit from my surgery. He said he'd put my name on the car and let me know if someone buys it before hand, otherwise he'll hold onto it until I come up there and have a look at it. I'm thinking about going up there today, but I'm not sure... I'm not feeling particularly great, and I have to "work" tonight.

Dad seemed to like the idea of the car, so thats usually a good sign. I'm pretty much thinking that I'm going to go in there assuming they paid about $9000 for the car, give them an initial offer of $10,500 for it ($500 off the price, maybe $500 for the old Jetta?), but I absolutely won't pay a penny over $10,750. I know I want my car payment to be as absolutely close to $200 a month if at all possible, and I do need to ask if I'm eligible for the "Amway Discount" given that this dealer is owned by the company and my father works there.

We'll see. Its gotten pretty resounding thumbs-ups from the photographs I've shown family and friends, its just a matter of getting up there and having a look at her.
 
YSSMAN
From what I've read on the 2003+ 1.8T models, most of the general issues (turbos blowing out, oil sludge) had been quelled... Although I believe oil consumption is still an issue that they seem to deal with regularly. The fuel efficiency of the car is hard to ignore (24 city, 34 highway) compared to the Subarus I had been looking at (maybe 23 mpg combined), so that is a major bonus. Although it does have to run on premium, but I'll survive...
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It's a German turbocharged engine. Those things are pretty known for oil consumption. Even my brand new 2.0T uses a fair bit of the stuff. I think they are designed to meet the maximum allowable consumption.

Dad seemed to like the idea of the car, so thats usually a good sign. I'm pretty much thinking that I'm going to go in there assuming they paid about $9000 for the car, give them an initial offer of $10,500 for it ($500 off the price, maybe $500 for the old Jetta?), but I absolutely won't pay a penny over $10,750. I know I want my car payment to be as absolutely close to $200 a month if at all possible, and I do need to ask if I'm eligible for the "Amway Discount" given that this dealer is owned by the company and my father works there.
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Final offer at $10,750? Don't be surprised if they play the "$10,850, only $100 more, a very slight portion of the price" card like they did with us. We underbid our max (for the GTI) by $200, and walked out $100 under our max.
 
Say, you seem to like Diesels quite a bit...What about a Jetta TDi? Is there one nearby?
 
Jim Prower
Say, you seem to like Diesels quite a bit...What about a Jetta TDi? Is there one nearby?
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They will either have a billion miles on them or be through the roof expensive. Those things hold their value real well, at least in this state.
 
Have you ever looked for a Cadillac CTS early model. I seen one on one of your American sites for $10k. Wouldn't that be better and cooler than everything here?
 
Early CTS models were a bit shaky with quality control, and I personally don't trust those 3.2L V6s that they had. Then you get into things like the bad axles and such...

Generally speaking, there isn't a single GM car that I'd consider buying (outside of a Corvette or Camaro) that came before 2005, just because I know enough not to trust them. If I could afford a 2006 Chevrolet Impala LTZ with the 3.9L V6, that would be a maybe, but thats still a couple grand more than what I want to spend.

Insurance, as always, is a major deciding factor. I can usually afford the payments, but insurance combined with gas prices and of course that looming question of reliability always makes you do a double-take.
 

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