Zenith's 1967 Mustang LS Swap

[Zenith]

Thought I'd make a thread for my latest project.

Some of you may have seen my car in some of the picture threads. For those who haven't, here are some pics.

This car has been my daily driver, autocrosser, and track car for about 5 years now, and I've been grooming it to accept a higher horsepower engine since I got it.

Previous mods include:
-Reinforced chassis with subframe connectors, shock tower connectors, and seam welds at critical points.
-11" 4 piston front disc brakes
-Stiffer springs, anti roll bar, Shelby style suspension geometry, reinforced A-arms, and Koni dampers
-Ford 9 inch rear axle with a fabricated housing, 3.73 final drive and a torsen differential.
And other bits and pieces like dual exhaust and better bushings here and there.

The previous powertrain was a 289 Windsor V8 with an Edelbrock carburetor and intake. It felt like it made about 200hp and it drove the wheels through a loathsome 3 speed manual. After my recent final drive upgrade, the car was useless on the highway. Needless to say, a powertrain upgrade was in order...

The standard engine swap for a car like mine is a built 302W or 351W, maybe a 289W if you care about sticking to factory original and like revving to the moon. For those looking at modern engines, the Ford Modular 4.6L or 5.0L Coyote is the standard choice.

The Windsors have problems. The 302/289 is about the weight that balances the car well (~450lbs), but require expensive and non-street sensible performance parts to make the horsepower I'm looking for, especially since I desired fuel injection. Want an aluminum block? Fuel injection? more than 5.0L of diplacement? Better break out the check book.

The Modular and Coyote are huge DOHC engines. In order to fit them in the engine bay, I would have to chop out significant portions of the car and completely redo my suspension. In addition, they sit high in the engine bay and have a high center of mass which plays hell with handling and are expensive to upgrade (4 cams?! Why would you need more than 1?).

So like most people who make a spreadsheet that compares performance, cost, weight, maintenance, fuel economy, and aftermarket support, I ended up with the LS platform.

But Zenith, you're putting a Chebby in a Ferd!

I'm putting a small block V8 in place of a small block V8. The LS has more in common with the original Windsor than a Ford Modular that most people wouldn't bat an eye at. The LS is simply the best iteration of the OHV V8 that exists and the overall best engine to fit my needs.

The engine is an L9H out of a Yukon Denali. It's basically an L92 with better injectors, which is basically an L99 with a truck intake, which is basically an LS3 with Variable Valve Timing, slightly lower compression, and a heavier intake valve.

The engine was given an upgraded cam, better pushrods, better springs, a stock LS3 Camaro style intake, and a C5R timing chain. I anticipate it will make about 425whp which translates to about 475-500 crank to compare to factory cars. In a car weighing less than 3000lbs, it should be exciting.

Many people buy engines like this and remove the variable valve timing in favor of a static cam. I decided to keep the VVT because I believe in the technology and won't be running super aggressive racing cams that would be restricted by the cam phasing. Basically, there was no good reason not to.

I also installed a Stage 2 Monster Clutch with a lighter flywheel.

The transmission is a freshly rebuilt "Stage 2" T56 6 speed out of a 4th F-body. It should shift better and handle upwards 550hp. With the tires I'm running, I'll be turning less than 2000rpms in 6th at 75mph for cruising up to Thunderhill. At the track, I'll be using 1st through 4th, and maybe 5th if I get really brave down the straights.

A nice thing about the LS platform is the variety of parts that will just bolt up. I swapped the oil pan to a "front sump" GTO type pan in order to clear the Mustang's steering.

In addition, the front suspension crossmember and steering was replaced with a rack and pinion kit. This kit replaces both units with a single piece that fits under the oil pan better, and should help the car around the autocross course. I sure am tired of cranking and cranking and cranking the wheel to make it change direction.

To mount the motor I used 4th Gen F-body "clamshell" mounts with a polymer transmission mount. Here are some pictures of the new custom mounts that will hold the powertrain in the car.

The Ford motor mount points are incredibly weak on these old things. You can crush them with a wrench, nut and bolt. These motor mounts distribute the forces across several points. The engine has also been dropped and set backwards to improve weight distribution.

Old mounts for comparison... The old steering gear and crossmember are visible.

Here's how it sits now.

Next on the list is headers. This will be extremely challenging. You can buy LS swap headers for just about everything except classic Mustangs. I'll be trying some clever approaches to getting headers on this car.

I'll try to update this post with more pictures (like removing the old 289), until then let me know your thoughts and questions!

 

[Harry6784]

Nice build, good to see more people joining the dark side (LS based engines )

I see you've done your research, that's an excellent motor choice and will easily make the power your shooting for. Also good call on a Monster clutch, stage 2 is a very capable clutch that will hold power and have very nice street manners. As for the T-56, 4th should take you upwards of 125mph, depending on your final gear ratio.

Do you have room for long tube headers or are you going to get shorties?

 

[Joey D]

Did you source the engine from a junkyard or did you get it somewhere else? It looks way better than most engines I see at a junkyard, but that might be because you're in California where cars generally see less wear and tear due to weather.

Also I assume the swap is going to put you in a different autox class isn't it? I don't know much about classes in autox other than there are a ton of them. Do you think you'll run into an issue when it comes to racing? When we did the motor swap on the Neon it grossly outclassed the car in rallyx.

 

[Zenith]

Nice build, good to see more people joining the dark side (LS based engines )

I see you've done your research, that's an excellent motor choice and will easily make the power your shooting for. Also good call on a Monster clutch, stage 2 is a very capable clutch that will hold power and have very nice street manners. As for the T-56, 4th should take you upwards of 125mph, depending on your final gear ratio.

Do you have room for long tube headers or are you going to get shorties?

The final drive is 3.7, so yes 4th tops out at about 125. The final drive was selected to make use of the .50 ratio 6th gear.

I'm hoping to be able to fit longtubes in the car, you can see that the transmission crossmember has spots for the collectors to "aim" for.

Did you source the engine from a junkyard or did you get it somewhere else? It looks way better than most engines I see at a junkyard, but that might be because you're in California where cars generally see less wear and tear due to weather.

The engine was indeed sourced from a wrecking yard. It's from an '09 GMC that only had 60,000 on the clock and by the looks of the bottom end, the truck was used but not abused. It came with accessories, a wiring harness which I turned into a swap harness by stripping out the emissions equipment and automatic transmission gear, and a throttle pedal. There was some grime on the exterior which I cleaned off before taking the photos.

I figured that sourcing a truck engine would be less risky than a car engine. I expect Nancy Generic who owned the Yukon Denali to have her car serviced by the dealer on schedule and never use more than 1/2 throttle. Buying a wrecked motor from a Camaro, GTO, or Corvette that managed to get totaled seems like a good way to get a thrashed motor.

Also I assume the swap is going to put you in a different autox class isn't it? I don't know much about classes in autox other than there are a ton of them. Do you think you'll run into an issue when it comes to racing? When we did the motor swap on the Neon it grossly outclassed the car in rallyx.

I'm not sure. I'm not interested in competitive auto-x, I'm just there to dodge cones and improve my times so I usually attend relaxed events.

I know SCCA was toying with a CAM(?) class for older American stuff. I don't know if LS swaps are considered valid engines for that class though.

 

[NotThePrez]

Nice build, & pretty car. I look forward to seeing how everything goes. 👍

Noob question, did the car originally start its life as a GT350?

 

[Slash]

While I'm not a fan of the Chebbie in a Ferd idea, it is somewhat cost effective. There's no denying that.

At least your doing it right and its not a hack job like so many (especially Fox Bodies) tend to be. Keep up the good work.

 

[Zenith]

Nice build, & pretty car. I look forward to seeing how everything goes. 👍

Noob question, did the car originally start its life as a GT350?

It was not, is not, and never will be a GT350. I bought the car with the badges and paint that way. I'm honestly not a big fan of the fake Shelby look but I like the color and the stripes.

Whenever I think it's about time to remove the Shelby badges I just think "yeah but I could make the car faster instead"

While I'm not a fan of the Chebbie in a Ferd idea, it is somewhat cost effective. There's no denying that.

At least your doing it right and its not a hack job like so many (especially Fox Bodies) tend to be. Keep up the good work.

You're taking it well!

Engine swaps are often really poorly done, especially when it comes to motor mounts. It's not uncommon to see frames get twisted and holes get elongated because somebody overestimated the ability of their Datsun to cope with a heavier, more powerful engine. The importance of good motor mounts is severely underestimated by many tuners.

 

[Cano]

Dude you should have tagged me.

I see in the end you ended up being sensible instead of all-out. Sad but oh well, I completely understand that other powertrain options will cost thrice as much and will be thrice as complicated. You could at least paint it Ford blue and dude, you should really reconsider at least taking off the the side stripes and emblems. Leave the tail-lamps, they look pretty damn cool, just loose the Shelby elements.

Keep up the good work.

What the heck. What is this crap. I expected much more from this, I even came in with pop corn already made. Where is real Slash?

 

[Slash]

I don't agree with the fact he said its the best small block either, but hey

The LS engines are really good when it comes down to it. I'm more of a purist when it comes to these types of swaps, but its his car and he can do what he wants with it.

Rather than come in here and make a big kaboom about it, it's pretty much already done so there's that. I kinda figured he was going for it when he posted all the pics in the infield.


I also like that its a truck motor too. Good idea.

 

[Zenith]

I tried to consider every engine possible. In the end, very few could come even close to the LS platform, it's just that good.

There were Japanese inlines, Turbo'd engines, diesels, and more. Most of them washed out pretty quickly.

The BMW S85 V10 was a fun candidate, but the "M" in M5 stands for money, so that never would have worked.

Oh well, I'll just shove an SRT10 into a Volvo Brick Wagon some day...

Dude you should have tagged me.

I see in the end you ended up being sensible instead of all-out. Sad but oh well, I completely understand that other powertrain options will cost thrice as much and will be thrice as complicated. You could at least paint it Ford blue and dude, you should really reconsider at least taking off the the side stripes and emblems. Leave the tail-lamps, they look pretty damn cool, just loose the Shelby elements.

One day!

I actually had a very close friend get extremely angry with me for dropping a Chevy in a Ford. He said he would be extremely angry if I painted the block blue, so for my safety I'm going to not do that.

I don't agree with the fact he said its the best small block either, but hey

I would have loved to build a 289 that revs to 8000 like the ones people put in road racer Mustangs, but those have no street manners and are very high strung motors.

The LS engines are really good when it comes down to it. I'm more of a purist when it comes to these types of swaps, but its his car and he can do what he wants with it.

Rather than come in here and make a big kaboom about it, it's pretty much already done so there's that. I kinda figured he was going for it when he posted all the pics in the infield.

I also like that its a truck motor too. Good idea.

I figure that there were over half a million Mustangs made in '67. I purposely bought my car as a shameless Shelby clone coupe because I wanted to be sure I wasn't ruining any pedigree.

But hey if you can give a performance oriented reason why there's a better option than the LS, I'm all ears.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I would have gone Coyote 5.0 or sourced out a Boss 302 (new one) engine, but maybe that's just me.

 

[Cano]

I don't agree with the fact he said its the best small block either, but hey

Sorry dude, but it is. Maybe the traditional small block Chevy can compete with it because you can make them run on the incredibly, irrationally cheap and still get miraculous output off some of them, but every day that passes the price gap, which is about the only advantage it still has over the LS1 (and notice I'm saying LS1 here as it's the cheapest of the LS family), becomes narrower and narrower. The day that a LS and a traditional small block cost the same is about nigh. As for every other small block in the history of the human being, not a single chance.

I tried to consider every engine possible. In the end, very few could come even close to the LS platform, it's just that good.

There were Japanese inlines, Turbo'd engines, diesels, and more. Most of them washed out pretty quickly.

The BMW S85 V10 was a fun candidate, but the "M" in M5 stands for money, so that never would have worked.

Oh well, I'll just shove an SRT10 into a Volvo Brick Wagon some day...

Yeah, I remember well our little chit-chat. I would have loved to see a diesel chimney out of your car or the Taurus SHO idea we munched for a while.

 

[McLaren]

Should have put in a 2JZ to really troll the domestic crowd.

Solid looking build, Chebby motor and all.

 

[Zenith]

I would have gone Coyote 5.0 or sourced out a Boss 302 (new one) engine, but maybe that's just me.

The engine doesn't package well. The classic mustangs have a (pretty nice) SLA front suspension instead of a MacPherson Strut so it's just tight enough in the engine bay to require chopping up the body and redoing my suspension. The engine would also sit very high in the engine bay and I do love me some low center of gravity. The high engine would also require me to chop up my transmission tunnel and would interfere with a strut brace. Even though it's Ford to Ford, a lot of custom fabrication would be required.

Also they're expensive motors since Ford doesn't put their sexy all aluminum V8's in everything like Chevy does.

One of the best parts of owning a pre-1974 car is that I'm smog exempt so I can run some angry cams, I wouldn't want to have to change 4 of them.

Other than that, I think the engine is pretty impressive. High revs, good sound, great tuning options.

Sorry dude, but it is.

Yeah, I remember well our little chit-chat. I would have loved to see a diesel chimney out of your car or the Taurus SHO idea we munched for a while.

Yeah unfortunately the SHO motor isn't as light as it should be and would have been pretty expensive to get to a power level worth swapping into the Mustang.

At least I would've had an Ecoboost Mustang!

Should have put in a 2JZ to really troll the domestic crowd.

Solid looking build, Chebby motor and all.

Could've gone full Fast and Furious!

I actually looked into an RB motor (2JZ's are heavy). Turns out it's fairly difficult to package a turbo into the engine bay of a Mustang. The F&F crew had difficulties with that setup and most of the speed shots were done with a Ford V8.

 

[AnthonyD1993]

Clean car! Since you said diesel was an option, what diesel engines were you considering? Also, was that the original 289, and if so , will you keep it or sell it off?

 

[Beeblebrox237]

This. Is. Awesome. I'm not sure how I missed that you owned such a cool car, but it's definitely one of the coolest on GTP.

 

[Anathema]

That's one amazing car. Very impressive.

 

[Exorcet]

Whenever I think it's about time to remove the Shelby badges I just think "yeah but I could make the car faster instead"

Just think of the 100th's of a mph in top speed you'd get without those badges though.

Do you have any track day video?

 

[Zenith]

Thanks for the kind words, guys!

Clean car! Since you said diesel was an option, what diesel engines were you considering? Also, was that the original 289, and if so , will you keep it or sell it off?

The diesel was a Cummins turbo diesel. It didn't last long in the selection process since I wanted the car to turn.

Not sure about the 289 yet. Some friends have expressed interest in buying it, one has an MG, the other has a 240Z. It could be made into a very capable engine with some decent heads.

Just think of the 100th's of a mph in top speed you'd get without those badges though.

Do you have any track day video?

Unfortunately no, I don't. I played cat and mouse with an Evo 8 at Thunderhill which would've made a great movie. I'll definitely try getting one once the new engine is done.

 

[Cano]

Not sure about the 289 yet. Some friends have expressed interest in buying it, one has an MG, the other has a 240Z. It could be made into a very capable engine with some decent heads.

Sell it to the guy with the MG under the premise that he really has to put it there or else you'll cut something off him. I'd love to see a small-Ford-powered MG.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Sell it to the guy with the MG under the premise that he really has to put it there or else you'll cut something off him. I'd love to see a small-Ford-powered MG.

Not Ford, but you might get a kick out of this.

 

[Joel]

The whole concept is just dripping with awesome. It's an awesome engine in a great looking car, and from now on you'll be able to just instantaneously generate hilarious amounts of anger by telling people what's under the hood.

 

[Slash]

Is the 289 a low compression motor? 289 heads are typically junk but if I had the money I'd take it off your hands.

 

[Cano]

Not Ford, but you might get a kick out of this.

Oh, yeah.

 

[a6m5]

Did you take those top pictures yourself, Z-Man? The photography..... I also thought your knowledge & the way you put together your AR was impressive, but I had no idea. This is MORE impressive. Quite a looker too, this car.

 

[Zenith]

The whole concept is just dripping with awesome. It's an awesome engine in a great looking car, and from now on you'll be able to just instantaneously generate hilarious amounts of anger by telling people what's under the hood.

I honestly don't understand the rage, but I definitely underestimated it. The LS is so similar to the original motors that the only way to tell that the car is a bastard is to look under the hood.

A lot of people asked me what the "point" of the build was. In short, my take on a GT350 or a Pro-Touring Mustang. In long, it's a car tailored to my uses which includes daily driving, mountain blasts, car meets, and track days.

Is the 289 a low compression motor? 289 heads are typically junk but if I had the money I'd take it off your hands.

Not sure what's considered low compression. The bottom end and heads are stock C code from the factory. Google says that's a 9.8:1 compression. The LS is going to have 10.5:1 compression. I can't go high compression on California 91 octane.

Did you take those top pictures yourself, Z-Man? The photography..... I also thought your knowledge & the way you put together your AR was impressive, but I had no idea. This is MORE impressive. Quite a looker too, this car.

Thanks man! I only took the first picture and all the mobile phone progress pics. The others were done by a friend who is also a professional photographer for Electronic Dance artists.

 

[Turtle]

I knew you owned a Mustang, but was unaware of the engine swap! I can't believe there wasn't a thread until recently.

 

[AnthonyD1993]

I honestly don't understand the rage, but I definitely underestimated it. The LS is so similar to the original motors that the only way to tell that the car is a bastard is to look under the hood.

That's because you put the LS in a vintage Mustang. The irony of that is that most of the haters would probably put a Windsor in a Camaro with out a second thought and not care. Personally, I'd tell them to cry a river and deal with it. Now, if they would have spent the thousands of dollars out of their pockets to build you a good aftermarket block Windsor or Cleveland for the car, that would be another story.

 

[niky]

LS swaps are so passe. But props... you definitely made the right choice.

I do recall there was a Fox body running the SHO engine in LeMons. Wasn't really competitive, apparently. Too many issues with the swap.

Me, I would have put an SR20 in there. But I'm stupid, so carry on.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I am not taking it well. No...just no let me cry in a corner for a moment.