Zenith's 1967 Mustang LS Swap

[Joel]

I honestly don't understand the rage, but I definitely underestimated it. The LS is so similar to the original motors that the only way to tell that the car is a bastard is to look under the hood.

A lot of people asked me what the "point" of the build was. In short, my take on a GT350 or a Pro-Touring Mustang. In long, it's a car tailored to my uses which includes daily driving, mountain blasts, car meets, and track days.

Well it's basically sacrilege, using a small block V8 instead of a small block V8? Do you hate Christmas?

Lol at the "point" of the build. It's a big powerful motor that sits low and gets reasonable fuel economy. If that isn't the point of a pony car then I must have missed something. Cherry on top is that you kept the VVT , what's the point of having technology that works practically for the street in your daily driver?!?!?!?!

 

[Zenith]

That's because you put the LS in a vintage Mustang. The irony of that is that most of the haters would probably put a Windsor in a Camaro with out a second thought and not care. Personally, I'd tell them to cry a river and deal with it. Now, if they would have spent the thousands of dollars out of their pockets to build you a good aftermarket block Windsor or Cleveland for the car, that would be another story.

I feed off the hate.

And you're 100% right. If there was a Ford that hit my requirements better, I'd use that. Same if there was a BMW or Kia motor.

LS swaps are so passe. But props... you definitely made the right choice.

I do recall there was a Fox body running the SHO engine in LeMons. Wasn't really competitive, apparently. Too many issues with the swap.

Me, I would have put an SR20 in there. But I'm stupid, so carry on.

I entertained the idea of a 4 cylinder for a while actually. I really liked the idea of taking weight off the front.

Unfortunately it was a bit too out of the box for my skills. I figured a K20 or S20 would present such weird packaging restrictions that the LS would be able to get lower and farther back in the chassis.

Also I wanted more power for the wide open tracks and getting like 300-350bhp out of those engines requires a bit more budget than I wanted to spend.

Now that I'm eyeball deep in this swap, I'm glad I didn't take a more complicated engine.

Well it's basically sacrilege, using a small block V8 instead of a small block V8? Do you hate Christmas?

Lol at the "point" of the build. It's a big powerful motor that sits low and gets reasonable fuel economy. If that isn't the point of a pony car then I must have missed something. Cherry on top is that you kept the VVT , what's the point of having technology that works practically for the street in your daily driver?!?!?!?!

Pretty much. I think the internet is jaded by swaps but fails to consider the context. This hits on @niky 's joke about LS swaps being overdone.

If I was a speed shop, I think an LS swap would be unoriginal and boring. For cars that are supposed to exhibit workmanship, creativity, and engineering prowess, the LS is done to death.

But for guys like me with a garage, some tools, and disposable income, it's dumb to expect us to make worse engineering choices in order to please the internet peanut gallery. I'm not trying to impress anybody, I just want a fast car that I can use.

 

[AnthonyD1993]

I'm not trying to impress anybody, I just want a fast car that I can use.

The fact of the matter is that back in the early days of hot rodding, people put the best engine in the car that suited their needs regardless of the brand. All that you've done is continue one of the original traditions of car modification.

 

[Slash]

I'm surprised you didn't opt for a small block Ford, considering the wild aftermarket support there is for them. Even a Cleveland would have been a hot little thing.

 

[AnthonyD1993]

If an SBF would be as cheap as an SBC or an LS to build, @Zenith probably would have. But the LS was the best engine he could get his hands on without spending a fortune to build it.

 

[Slash]

Yeah, that's the only downfall. While SBF's are cheap to build, part of owning a Ford is that they are inherently slightly more expensive to build than a comparable Chevy. Even I know that.

My dad always used everyone liked Chevy's because they were cheap, but toss some money at a Ford and you'd have a better product when all was said and done

25 years ago that probably would have been true. LS motors are wickedly good engines, without a doubt.

@Zenith, out of curiosity, did you price out a build for both an LS and the original 289 to see which would be more expensive, for what you were trying to do and the power you were trying to make? 289s are quite cheap to make power out of.

 

[Zenith]

@Zenith, out of curiosity, did you price out a build for both an LS and the original 289 to see which would be more expensive, for what you were trying to do and the power you were trying to make? 289s are quite cheap to make power out of.

Yup. It's worth noting that I was looking for more than power/$.

I wanted proper one injector per cylinder fuel injection. Extremely expensive for an SBF.

I wanted a light motor, the iron block of the 289 makes it weigh as much or more than an LS depending on the heads. An extra 1.5L of displacement at basically no weight penalty? Sounds good to me.

I wanted street manners and a broad torque curve to haul like a freight train. The LS has VVT, the Windsor does not.

The 289W is a great motor. Tiny stroke big bore, if I was building a track car I would turn the 289 into a 8,000rpm screamer, but I'm not so I didn't.

My needs are similar to most "Pro-Touring" cars. Reliable, driveable, cost effective and fast. The LS does those very well which is why everyone runs them.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

And why everyone will keep running them for probably the next couple decades (then LTs) because Ford doesn't tend to nearly care as much about the back yard tuner as they would the deep pockets resto mod types. Or those building off the wall sema cars with non-street friendly set ups.

 

[AnthonyD1993]

Well, the LS1 (and other LS engines) have some robust blocks that can handle 1,000 hp on the original block. Even Steve Morris offers a package that can make 1,000 hp with a factory LS1 block. Of course, this engine will never make that power since it'll make the car pointless, but that along with the fact that the LS family engines are still stupid cheap means that they will be the go to engine for a long time.

 

[Cano]

And why everyone will keep running them for probably the next couple decades (then LTs) because Ford doesn't tend to nearly car as much about the back yard tuner as they would the deep pockets resto mod types. Or those building off the wall sema cars with non-street friendly set ups.

Noy to mention that they are enormous. Swapping in a Modular/Coyote engine in a classic anything requires practically refabricating the whole engine compartment... and most likely a new hood.

Oh, and for most of them to really run, you need boost. like, NEED. with a cam, heads, intake and a retune you're making 600+ on an LS.

 

[AnthonyD1993]

Noy to mention that they are enormous. Swapping in a Modular/Coyote engine in a classic anything requires practically refabricating the whole engine compartment... and most likely a new hood.

Yeah, I saw a comparison between a 4.6 and a 302 Windsor and the Modular dwarfed it. Then along with what you said, you have to factor in getting multiple cams since it is DOHC, and parts for Modular engines are still rather pricey.

 

[Cano]

Yeah, I saw a comparison between a 4.6 and a 302 Windsor and the Modular dwarfed it. Then along with what you said, you have to factor in getting multiple cams since it is DOHC, and parts for Modular engines are still rather pricey.

Yeup. But that was covered by @LMSCorvetteGT2 post when he said they're more for the deeper-pocket guys. They are pretty damn pricey indeed. And complicated to boot. They can be made to haul ass, no doubt about that, but at a steep cost :/

 

[Zenith]

There are many reasons why the LS earned its spot as the go-to swap engine. You guys already mentioned the size and the modifiability, but I think think the main reason isn't directly related to the design.

It's the fact that GM put them in everything and made a diverse range of motors. No matter what you're building the car to do and no matter what your budget, you can put an LS-ish in it.

Only have a couple thousand to spend on the entire powertrain? Salvage an iron block 5.3 with an auto from a van.

Building a general use sporty road car? LS1/2/3.

Super high performance track build? LS7 with titanium connecting rods.

Drag car? Iron block with huge turbos.

No other motor has such a broad range. The broader the range, the more people will adopt the motor, the more people adopt the motor, the more other people will join in. It's a snowball effect. The dude who's trying to decide between a Coyote and an LS knows that he'll be able to use the experience of everyone from the high profile speed shops to the junkyard dumpster diver if he chooses the Chevy.

And since everything basically bolts up to everything, you can always upgrade your cheapie build or find an oil pan, intake, and accessory set to fit your ride like I did. Mixing and matching parts allows the engine that little bit better.

The aftermarket support is obviously a huge factor, but a big reason why it's so massive is because the engines are a universal swap option.

 

[Slash]

I can't see why you couldn't do that with a Windsor.

It's the fact that GM put them in everything and made a diverse range of motors. No matter what you're building the car to do and no matter what your budget, you can put an LS-ish in it.

Windsors are pretty much the same in that regard, I've yet to see differently.

Only have a couple thousand to spend on the entire powertrain? Salvage an iron block 5.3 with an auto from a van.

I can pull a complete drivetrain from a box van for less than $1000 with Ford parts. Couple thousand? LOL

Building a general use sporty road car? LS1/2/3.

Windsor...

Super high performance track build? LS7 with titanium connecting rods.

Windsor with Scat/Eagle stuff.

Drag car? Iron block with huge turbos.

Can be done.

No other motor has such a broad range. The broader the range, the more people will adopt the motor, the more people adopt the motor, the more other people will join in. It's a snowball effect. The dude who's trying to decide between a Coyote and an LS knows that he'll be able to use the experience of everyone from the high profile speed shops to the junkyard dumpster diver if he chooses the Chevy.

And why exactly would this not work with a Windsor? It seems like you're not going for a high HP build, and in that aspect the W has just as much if not more aftermarket support than a comparable LS. The only thing the LS series has is that parts are $25 (example) cheaper.

And since everything basically bolts up to everything, you can always upgrade your cheapie build or find an oil pan, intake, and accessory set to fit your ride like I did. Mixing and matching parts allows the engine that little bit better.

This also applies to Windsors.

The aftermarket support is obviously a huge factor, but a big reason why it's so massive is because the engines are a universal swap option.

So are Windsors

The only MAJOR factors a typical iron block LS has over a W is the factory horsepower and parts are ever so slightly cheaper.

 

[Zenith]

It's the fact that GM put them in everything and made a diverse range of motors. No matter what you're building the car to do and no matter what your budget, you can put an LS-ish in it.

Windsors are pretty much the same in that regard, I've yet to see differently.

No they're not. Ford stopped using them a decade and a half ago. You can't find junkyard or crate engine seller Windsors in the same quantity or condition that you can with an LS pattern engine. It's just older. The engines weren't designed with modern cars in mind, so naturally they fit less well. Case in point, my rear steering Mustang. Hardly anybody uses a rear-steer layout anymore, but tons of Windsors were designed with this in mind. Things like this make swaps harder.

Only have a couple thousand to spend on the entire powertrain? Salvage an iron block 5.3 with an auto from a van.

I can pull a complete drivetrain from a box van for less than $1000 with Ford parts. Couple thousand? LOL

I didn't say the pull would cost that much, I said the powertrain swap would cost that much. That includes all the wiring, mounts, and drivetrain mods. You can probably grab GM stuff for just as little or (probably) less than Ford Windsor stuff. Where are the HybridZ forums that have dozens of members who can tell me exactly how to put a Windsor V8 in my old Datsun?

Building a general use sporty road car? LS1/2/3.

Windsor...

I can lift a 430hp LS3 out of a wrecked Camaro and change nothing on it and have a kick-ass sports car. Where are the 430hp Windsors sitting around? In order to get performance worth swapping an engine into your car, you need to go to the expensive aftermarket. The Windsor is needlessly expensive when compared to a similar performance LS.

Also fuel injection, why would I want to mess with crappy old carburetors if I can have stock factory fuel injection? This is a general use car. I want to make things easier on myself.

The transmissions that come with the LS engines are newer. I don't have to get some custom deal to hook up a 6 speed to my LS, it was basically designed to work with it like peanut butter and jam.

With Windsors I am fighting age at every turn. I'm trying to adapt them to modern electronics, modern transmissions, modern fueling, modern ignition, and modern driving.

Super high performance track build? LS7 with titanium connecting rods.

Windsor with Scat/Eagle stuff.

Factory engine vs full aftermarket engine. Why would I pay $4,000 for an aluminum Windsor block alone when I can just buy something that was engineered in the 2000's and get the same performance easier and cheaper?

Drag car? Iron block with huge turbos.

Can be done.

For crap-loads extra money for the same or worse performance.

Can be done, but it's not the best way of doing it. Why would I do things worse and harder when I can do them easier and better?

No other motor has such a broad range. The broader the range, the more people will adopt the motor, the more people adopt the motor, the more other people will join in. It's a snowball effect. The dude who's trying to decide between a Coyote and an LS knows that he'll be able to use the experience of everyone from the high profile speed shops to the junkyard dumpster diver if he chooses the Chevy.

And why exactly would this not work with a Windsor? It seems like you're not going for a high HP build, and in that aspect the W has just as much if not more aftermarket support than a comparable LS. The only thing the LS series has is that parts are $25 (example) cheaper.

It just doesn't. There are LS swap "kits" for all kinds of cars including old GM's, Fox Bodys, MX-5's, 240's, and more. There aren't many for Windsors. There are hundreds of shops who build and are currently researching aftermarket parts for the LS. The LS has huge popularity, the Windsor doesn't outside of Ford groups.

And since everything basically bolts up to everything, you can always upgrade your cheapie build or find an oil pan, intake, and accessory set to fit your ride like I did. Mixing and matching parts allows the engine that little bit better.

This also applies to Windsors.

Not to the same extent. Ford doesn't make cars with them anymore. Sure, I can find aftermarket stuff that might fit my ride well for a Windsor, but that's much more expensive than getting some used parts off of some dude's part-out on LS1Tech.

The aftermarket support is obviously a huge factor, but a big reason why it's so massive is because the engines are a universal swap option.

So are Windsors

They're not unless you want to take your car back to the 1960's in terms of tech. Generally people like making their cars newer and better. The only way to do that with a Windsor is to spend thousands extra, and even then you won't get the same array of sensors and 21st century engineering.

The only MAJOR factors a typical iron block LS has over a W is the factory horsepower and parts are ever so slightly cheaper.

More aftermarket support as I covered above, modern design, fuel injection, better parts availability from your corner auto store, existing swap popularity.

It comes down to this:

I can't see why you couldn't do that with a Windsor.

Of course it can be done with a Windsor, but why would I want to? To be a contender, the Windsor can't just work as a substitute for the LS, it needs to be better than the LS in at least a few ways. In what ways is the Windsor a better candidate for a variety of engine swaps than the LS for people who don't bleed Ford blue? It's a great engine, it's still a 50 year old engine that you're comparing to a 10 year old engine.

 

[Zyla]

I can't see why you couldn't do that with a Windsor.



Windsors are pretty much the same in that regard, I've yet to see differently.



I can pull a complete drivetrain from a box van for less than $1000 with Ford parts. Couple thousand? LOL



Windsor...



Windsor with Scat/Eagle stuff.



Can be done.



And why exactly would this not work with a Windsor? It seems like you're not going for a high HP build, and in that aspect the W has just as much if not more aftermarket support than a comparable LS. The only thing the LS series has is that parts are $25 (example) cheaper.



This also applies to Windsors.



So are Windsors

The only MAJOR factors a typical iron block LS has over a W is the factory horsepower and parts are ever so slightly cheaper.

Can you stop.

 

[Zenith]

Can you stop.

Honestly I welcome the discussion, but if we start going in circles then we'll get to that point.

 

[AnthonyD1993]

@Zenith do you have any potential guesses on fuel economy when the car is ready to run? I'm going to assume that that build with that transmission should see at least 25, possibly 30+ mpg on the highway based off of some other built LS engines.

 

[Tornado]

I've never actually seen a Windsor-era Ford in a junkyard that didn't already have at least some of the important Windsor-related pieces already purloined. I even saw a mid-90s Econoline once where the guys apparently decided that it was easier to just remove the entire firewall and pull everything except the short block through there. It looked like the result of a bear attack.

 

[Zenith]

@Zenith do you have any potential guesses on fuel economy when the car is ready to run? I'm going to assume that that build with that transmission should see at least 25, possibly 30+ mpg on the highway based off of some other built LS engines.

Well my car is significantly less aerodynamic than most modern cars, but it's significantly lighter. I would guess better city and worse highway mileage. I would tentatively guess 18/23(?).

 

[Slash]

No they're not. Ford stopped using them a decade and a half ago. You can't find junkyard or crate engine seller Windsors in the same quantity or condition that you can with an LS pattern engine. It's just older. The engines weren't designed with modern cars in mind, so naturally they fit less well. Case in point, my rear steering Mustang. Hardly anybody uses a rear-steer layout anymore, but tons of Windsors were designed with this in mind. Things like this make swaps harder.

I disagree. I can find hundreds and hundreds of them, and condition may vary sure, but it all depends. Hell, the '70s one we rebuilt only needed the crank turned .010".

I didn't say the pull would cost that much, I said the powertrain swap would cost that much. That includes all the wiring, mounts, and drivetrain mods. You can probably grab GM stuff for just as little or (probably) less than Ford Windsor stuff. Where are the HybridZ forums that have dozens of members who can tell me exactly how to put a Windsor V8 in my old Datsun?

Just because more people do it doesn't mean the engine is inherently better. There seems to be more Chevy fanboys than Ford fanboys, and usually they have little to no real reason why they prefer one over the other.

I can lift a 430hp LS3 out of a wrecked Camaro and change nothing on it and have a kick-ass sports car. Where are the 430hp Windsors sitting around? In order to get performance worth swapping an engine into your car, you need to go to the expensive aftermarket. The Windsor is needlessly expensive when compared to a similar performance LS.

But that's an LS3. You're using an LS1, and while there are similarities, lets stick to the one you actually used over the rest of the LSx series. Otherwise, you do have a point.

Also fuel injection, why would I want to mess with crappy old carburetors if I can have stock factory fuel injection? This is a general use car. I want to make things easier on myself.

Windsors had fuel injection standard for 20 years.

The transmissions that come with the LS engines are newer. I don't have to get some custom deal to hook up a 6 speed to my LS, it was basically designed to work with it like peanut butter and jam.

The same applies to a Windsor, there are a ton of transmissions that bolt to it, as many gears as you could ever want. The bellhousing bolt pattern is one of the most common out there.


With Windsors I am fighting age at every turn. I'm trying to adapt them to modern electronics, modern transmissions, modern fueling, modern ignition, and modern driving.

Factory engine vs full aftermarket engine. Why would I pay $4,000 for an aluminum Windsor block alone when I can just buy something that was engineered in the 2000's and get the same performance easier and cheaper?

For $4,000 you might as well just buy a 450hp crate motor. Unless your trying to squeeze as little weight out of a block as possible an iron Windsor won't be hardly more noticeable than a wet LS1. For a street car, it's almost pointless IMO. You're not going all out here with track days here every bit of weight counts.

For crap-loads extra money for the same or worse performance.

It depends; parts matching can play a huge role in $/hp.

It just doesn't. There are LS swap "kits" for all kinds of cars including old GM's, Fox Bodys, MX-5's, 240's, and more. There aren't many for Windsors. There are hundreds of shops who build and are currently researching aftermarket parts for the LS. The LS has huge popularity, the Windsor doesn't outside of Ford groups.

I see Windsors swapped into all sorts of stuff, it's incredibly common outside of Ford groups. Not sure where you got that idea from. There are many many many swap kits for Windsors. How hard are you actually looking?

Not to the same extent. Ford doesn't make cars with them anymore. Sure, I can find aftermarket stuff that might fit my ride well for a Windsor, but that's much more expensive than getting some used parts off of some dude's part-out on LS1Tech.

Sure, they don't make Windsors in cars anymore (crate they still do as performance and remanufactured long blocks, but those don't count), but you're forgetting the fact that these engines were and are made for 50+ years. There are hundreds of thousands of Windsor engines laying around.

They're not unless you want to take your car back to the 1960's in terms of tech. Generally people like making their cars newer and better. The only way to do that with a Windsor is to spend thousands extra, and even then you won't get the same array of sensors and 21st century engineering.

Just because it's old tech does not mean it's not good tech. Windsors are a fantastic design and engine overall, even in it's smog era days.

 

[Zenith]

I disagree. I can find hundreds and hundreds of them, and condition may vary sure, but it all depends. Hell, the '70s one we rebuilt only needed the crank turned .010".

See Tornado's post. You can pretend that the Windsors are as common as white bread but they're not. If they were, people would use them. Very few people are going to turn down a 5 year old engine in favor of a 35 year old engine, especially when the newer one performs better in basically every regard.

Just because more people do it doesn't mean the engine is inherently better. There seems to be more Chevy fanboys than Ford fanboys, and usually they have little to no real reason why they prefer one over the other.

It means it's a better swap option. It has nothing to do with "fan boys", it has to do with one engine being a modern engine and the other not. Not everybody who disagrees with you is a "fan boy."

But that's an LS3. You're using an LS1, and while there are similarities, lets stick to the one you actually used over the rest of the LSx series. Otherwise, you do have a point.

I'm using an engine that is nearly identical to an LS3. 6.2L, Gen 4 design, rectangle port head, identical head design (except intake valves), same crank, same intake.

Windsors had fuel injection standard for 20 years.

Real modern fuel injection. Not this crap.

The same applies to a Windsor, there are a ton of transmissions that bolt to it, as many gears as you could ever want. The bellhousing bolt pattern is one of the most common out there.

A ton of old transmissions that bolt to it. The LS is still better at this. Nobody is saying the Windsor isn't good. The LS is just better.

For $4,000 you might as well just buy a 450hp crate motor. Unless your trying to squeeze as little weight out of a block as possible an iron Windsor won't be hardly more noticeable than a wet LS1. For a street car, it's almost pointless IMO. You're not going all out here with track days here every bit of weight counts.

$4,500 for a 450hp Windsor? Nuh-uh. That will get you a lower HP crate motor and maybe a 450hp long block which you have to sink thousands more to get running. No matter what, there's less room to grow the performance.

More weight is more weight. I'm not going to take a heavier option without proper justification. I don't automatically side with Ford. Besides, the only Windsor that can come within spitting distance of an LS platform in terms of performance is the 351. That engine weighs more than 500lbs while the LS is a bit over 400. It is an entire transmission heavier than an LS that has more displacement. That's noticeable for anyone who wants to turn.

It depends; parts matching can play a huge role in $/hp.

For the third time, there is more to performance than hp/$.

I see Windsors swapped into all sorts of stuff, it's incredibly common outside of Ford groups. Not sure where you got that idea from. There are many many many swap kits for Windsors. How hard are you actually looking?

For any Windsor swap kit you can find I can find 3 more for an LS. Chances are they'll be better since the number of LS swaps is so much higher. Popularity makes things like this better.

Sure, they don't make Windsors in cars anymore (crate they still do as performance and remanufactured long blocks, but those don't count), but you're forgetting the fact that these engines were and are made for 50+ years. There are hundreds of thousands of Windsor engines laying around.

See Tornado's Post.

Just because it's old tech does not mean it's not good tech. Windsors are a fantastic design and engine overall, even in it's smog era days.

So what? You still haven't answered the most important question.

Of course it can be done with a Windsor, but why would I want to? To be a contender, the Windsor can't just work as a substitute for the LS, it needs to be better than the LS in at least a few ways. In what ways is the Windsor a better candidate for a variety of engine swaps than the LS for people who don't bleed Ford blue? It's a great engine, it's still a 50 year old engine that you're comparing to a 10 year old engine.

The Windsor just isn't as good of a motor. The end. If it was, people would use it like they do the LS. There's no anti-Ford conspiracy, it just turns out that a 50 year old engine isn't as good as a modern engine.

 

[AnthonyD1993]

The Windsor just isn't as good of a motor. The end. If it was, people would use it like they do the LS. There's no anti-Ford conspiracy, it just turns out that a 50 year old engine isn't as good as a modern engine.

Ironically, that's also why the SBC (which everyone knows is the gold standard engine for V8 engine swaps) is losing ground to the the LS that replaced it. If people cared about engines purely for their historical importance, we'd all still be using Ford Flathead V8s as the primary engine of choice today.

 

[Cano]

No matter what, there's less room to grow the performance.

I'd say in the end it all comes down to this. Even the small block Chevy was a superior engine than the Windsor, more resposive to modifications, and less expensive to make it run. The LS engines are extremely responsive to mods, and while still not as cheap as a sbc, they are already cheaper than a Windsor to make them run well. And well, then you factor in all the other stuff Zenith has mentioned, like weight and proper fuel management, and yes, it's pretty damn difficult to overlook the obvious.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

But Zenith, you're putting a Chebby in a Ferd!

I can not believe I was not tagged for this awesome build!! Never be afraid to put what YOU want into your car. I have always liked this car but had no idea it was getting the LS/T56 heart transplant!! Stunning car. You are going to love that T56 6 speed. It was the best investment in my car and you will love it in yours. Killer update! 👍

 

[Dennisch]

This is awesome. Great build! 👍

 

[Leggy1]

@Zenith You have an awesome project there 👍 Pretty much perfect looks too

 

[Cano]

Oi, dude. Coil covers?

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Oi, dude. Coil covers?

Oh excellent point. If these are not in the car yet I highly recommend coil overs.

I purchased a pair of QA1 coil overs for the front of my 69 Camaro last year and the difference is beyond incredible. Cost was about $450 for the pair and the install was a direct bolt in that only took a couple hours. I believe they are also 18 way adjustable.

 

[Cano]

Oh excellent point. If these are not in the car yet I highly recommend coil overs.

Haha, nooooo dude, coil covers for the ugly exposed coils of the LS.