Zeta News 2.0: New VF Commodore and Chevrolet SS

[Tornado]

What about the Honda Ridgeline? Would that be a pick up?

While I'm sure someone will come in here and say "Ah crossover!," the Ridgeline does not share its chassis with a car. So it is automatically more of a truck than the Ute (for example) is. It is also on a ladder frame and unibody hybrid, so it is ladder frame design technically.

 

[YSSMAN]

Its a minivan underneath. Can I call it a Vuck?

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

^ And the Odyssey is based on the Accord.

-> The [VE] Ute got me salivating for a moment there, especially the SS-V model. I think this would be the perfect time for Chevy to bring back the El Camino. But I think that won't happen, its all about the Camaro, oh joy.

 

[Joey D]

So basically what you are tell me is that the Ridgeline is nothing more then a Honda Accord with a truck bed?

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

^ A highly modified Pilot subframe, in which is based on a highly modfied version of the Odyssey, in which also based on a enlarged and stiffened version of the past (7th) gen Accord.

-> But for a pickup that is based on an Accord, its a tough cookie. And the best pickup I've driven so far, it has only have a so-so engine unfortunately.

 

[JCE]

So basically what you are tell me is that the Ridgeline is nothing more then a Honda Accord with a truck bed?

Speaking of Ridgeline--let me be the first person (maybe?) to officially annouce that it is a POS to the tenth power. The Ridgeline IS NOT A TRUCK AND WILL NEVER BE A TRUCK. It is a poser, paney-ass, with no legroom, gutless hunk of sheetmetal and plastic. I hated working for Honda and having to drive these pitiful things around. They have the WORST turning radius of ANYTHING I've EVER driven. Parking these things in a mall parking lot is nearly IMPOSSIBLE.

Honda tries to advertise its storage compartment in the bed like its a cool feature--what happens when you put some stuff in it and load the bed (not too much as the payload sucks ass)--uh oh you can't get to the stuff in the storage bin. Nissan was smart by putting the storage containers on the outside of the bed for easier access.

*back on topic*

I hope and pray that GM brings back the El Camino--once that happens (or maybe before?) Ford brings back the Ranchero. YSS and I are most likely in COMPLETE agreement when I say the El Camino and Ranchero would sell like hotcakes and would be probably the coolest "new" vehicle in the last ten years from either Chevy or Ford in the US.

 

[TopHat]

So basically what you are tell me is that the Ridgeline is nothing more then a Honda Pilot with a truck bed?

Ridgeline=Pilot=Odyssey=Accord

 

[Joey D]

Interesting enough, this was just posted up by Autoblog

El Camino may return, but it won't be a Chevy!

Holden just released a new version of its Australian Ute, and it's been rumored that the VE Trucklet will be US-bound. There's no doubt that GM is taking a look at the possibility of reintroducing the El Camino's ethos to American consumers, and fans of past El Caminos (and Sprints and Caballeros) are excited. GM Inside News forum member and photoshopper MonaroSS whipped up a chop of the VE Ute with an imagined Chevrolet nose and emailed it to everyone's friend, Maximum Bob, at GM HQ. Accompanying the picture was the note "hope the new Ute gets a more Chevy look if it goes Stateside." The reply from Lutz confirmed a desire on GM's part to bring the Ute over, but went on to state that it wouldn't be a Chevrolet if it happens.

What? An El Camino that's not an El Camino? What brand would sell it, then? There's GMC, which had versions of the El Camino in the past (the aforementioned Sprint and Caballero), but is it a good fit with the rest of the GMC product line? Pontiac's already getting the VE cars as G8s, so there would be a level of familiarity on the part of the sales/service organization were the Ute to end up at the Excitement branch. Of course, GM could take a total left-turn and sell it at Saturn or Buick stores, too, but we see those as a remote possibility. Saturn have a slight edge over Buick if it were to ever end up in either of those stores, but it's nearly as doubtful as the Ute becoming a Cadillac. So – while a certain number of consumers would welcome a new version of GM's not-a-car-not-a-truck, it's anyone's guess who will sell it and what they'll call it.

 

[High-Test]

Well, if it won't be a Caballero, Sprint, or El Camino, they could call it a LaSalle..



I wouldn't mind seeing it as a Saturn, actually. It would definitely fit in with the company's "fun" paradigm.

 

[JCE]

That would figure, Saturn getting all the cool fun rides.

 

[YSSMAN]

Here is the official post from GMI:

Hope's of a new generation El Camino appear to be dead, according to Bob Lutz.

GM's Vice Chairman of Product Development and Chairman of GM North America broke the news in an email response to GMInsideNews member MonaroSS.

MonaroSS, a photoshop enthusiast, produced a picture of what he thinks a Chevrolet El Camino badged Holden Ute could look like and sent it by e-mail to Mr Lutz with the comment "Hope the new Ute gets a more Chevy look if it goes Stateside."

Mr Lutz, a well known fan of all things Holden, responded by saying "Well, that's what we want to do, but it won't be a Chevrolet!"

This comes just three days after the unveiling of the all-new Holden Ute (Click here to see more). The new Ute is the third Holden product to be based on GM's Zeta/VE platform after the release of the new Holden Commodore and Statesman/Caprice range late last year.

There has been speculation that the Holden Ute would be exported to North America as a revived Chevrolet El Camino for some years. Like the Holden Ute, which has been in production since 1951, the Coupe-Utility El Camino was produced for the North American market for just under 30 years from 1959.

Speculation will now turn to which other GM brands the Holden Ute may be badged under in the US.

Pontiac, the brand that sold the last generation Holden Monaro Coupe in the US as the legendary GTO, and truck brand GMC would have to be the frontrunners.

MonaroSS broke the news in March this year that dispite strong rumors Holden was not producing a V12 for a super-luxury Cadillac supercar after similar e-mail corospondance with Mr Lutz (Click here to see more).

Personally speaking, I don't really know if I'd believe Lutz a the moment. While I love everything that Maximum Bob has done for the company, there have been more than a few instances where he clearly told us the wrong thing at the wrong time. I seriously doubt that the Chevrolet brand, furthermore even Wagoner himself, would stand for something like that to happen. The history behind the El Camino name just makes sense, and furthermore, why would they want to build a pickup for Pontiac?

The GMC idea seems like the most "sensible" after Chevrolet. Maybe they could call it the Syclone, and call it a day?

Still, this:

Versus This?

...Yeah, thats what I thought...

====

GMC Sprint! w00t!

(I still want a Cyclone...)

EDIT: Syclone!

 

[Joey D]

I think it would probably be a Pontiac since GM is going to attempt to make it their performance brand.

The Cylone was a Mercury wasn't it?

 

[YSSMAN]

Problem is, Pontiac did a truck. It didn't work. Pontiac is not a truck brand. Sure, they're unofficially aligned with Holden's car arm, but that does not mean that they should get the Ute. Its like throwing a TON of history out of the window...

EDIT

Its a GMC Syclone...

 

[Joey D]

Ya I see what you mean, but why not just call it the Pontiac Ute and forget about being all historical and what not?

**Oh wait that sounds like a terrible name on second thought.

 

[JCE]

Still, this:

Versus This?

Those both look freaking sweet. And actually, that Pontiac kidney grille finally works for something...a freaking Ute. Go figure...

 

[YSSMAN]

Another thought:

Give the Ute to GMC as the Syclone, sell the Adventra here as the Typhoon...

 

[Joey D]

I'd be rather irked if they did that. They should have had a turbo charged Canyon and called it the Syclone and a turbo charged Envoy for the Typhoon.

 

[TopHat]

Or they could call it El Camino. But that wouldn't make any sense.

 

[Tornado]

Give the Ute to GMC as the Syclone, sell the Adventra here as the Typhoon...

As Joey said, that would probably piss of as many people as not selling the Ute as an El Camino would.
I don't know what is going through Lutz' mind right now, but an El Camino comeback combined with a Camaro comeback would be sweet, especially styled as the green thing is. All of the rebadged Zeta Pontiacs don't look particularly good, and the Pontiac Ute is no exception. Now do I think it would sell by any stretch sitting on Pontiac lots regardless of what they call it.
Either give it to GMC or Chevrolet (preferably Chevy), or don't bring it over here at all.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

Speaking of Ridgeline--let me be the first person (maybe?) to officially annouce that it is a POS to the tenth power. The Ridgeline IS NOT A TRUCK AND WILL NEVER BE A TRUCK. It is a poser, paney-ass, with no legroom, gutless hunk of sheetmetal and plastic. I hated working for Honda and having to drive these pitiful things around. They have the WORST turning radius of ANYTHING I've EVER driven. Parking these things in a mall parking lot is nearly IMPOSSIBLE.

Honda tries to advertise its storage compartment in the bed like its a cool feature--what happens when you put some stuff in it and load the bed (not too much as the payload sucks ass)--uh oh you can't get to the stuff in the storage bin. Nissan was smart by putting the storage containers on the outside of the bed for easier access.

^ How can it be a POS? And how come its not a pickup truck, what Honda was completly out of the ordinary. Sure the mass-market of ladder-frame/body-on-frame trucks can't accept this truck versatility or its quirkiness. No leg room, what are you 7'10? I'm 6'3 and despite it has a minor issue for the driving position, this truck is pretty roomy, roomier than the Tacoma and the Frontier. I was laughing at your turning radius issue, what truck did you compare it with? The Subaru Baja? I've driven two generations of the F-150's, a Hemi Ram, Chevy/GMC full-sizers, Chevy Colorado, Tacoma, Frontier, and the new Tundra. And I gotta say, the only pickup that can rival the Ridgeline in turning radius is the GMC Denali w/ Quadrateer (I miss that truck, its one of the best).

-> And another thing, about that trunk. If you have to put something valuable then thats the place, or it can be a big gigantic cooler or just like what Automobile magazine did, made it into a bathtub. It just plain common sense really. Sucky payload? Come on, it only has a mediocre engine and if you compare it to the Avalanche, the Ridge has more payload. 👍

-> Your comments about the Ridge was a little bit outlandish. And take note, this is Honda's first take on a large truck in a grand scale. And this truck is more for the suburban/city types not rancher/contruction purposes.

BT-> Hmm, some nice pics there:

Chevy's version:

^ Eww, it doesn't look like a Chevy at all.

-> I'd take this front-end anytime:

Pontiac's version:

^ Actually it doesn't look bad at all, unforunatley that won't happen.

-> I've heard some certain news sources that GM would bring the [VE] Ute here in the US but not as a Chevy, maybe as a GMC (Caballero/Spirit) maybe or better yet a high testosterone Saturn!

~> I'd pick the Saturn (since I think they need a pickup) if they will come up with that, since they have all the fun-to-drive cars!

 

[Tornado]

~> I'd pick the Saturn (since I think they need a pickup) if they will come up with that, since they have all the fun-to-drive cars!

If they started selling the Ute as a Saturn not only would no one buy it, but it would drive away Saturn's customers.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

^ Why? Is it too viscious for its own good? Heh, heh. I guess I have to settle with the GMC version then.

 

[JCE]

^ How can it be a POS? And how come its not a pickup truck, what Honda was completly out of the ordinary. Sure the mass-market of ladder-frame/body-on-frame trucks can't accept this truck versatility or its quirkiness.

The Ridgeline is an SUV not a pickup truck. Any full-size medium duty (and most light duty) ladder frame pickup will completely destroy the Ridgeline in every test given in terms of hauling and towing capabiliy. Which is what ALL pickup trucks are measured in.

No leg room, what are you 7'10? I'm 6'3 and despite it has a minor issue for the driving position, this truck is pretty roomy, roomier than the Tacoma and the Frontier.

Thanks for pointing out another flaw I missed, the driving position is completely rubbish. Leg room is bad, and I'm referring to the HORIZONTAL leg room not VERTICAL leg room--which conviently the vertical leg room the Ridgeline DOES have is partially what gives it the rubbish driving position. I've ridden in 25 year old Chevy pickups with a better driving position.

I was laughing at your turning radius issue, what truck did you compare it with? The Subaru Baja? I've driven two generations of the F-150's, a Hemi Ram, Chevy/GMC full-sizers, Chevy Colorado, Tacoma, Frontier, and the new Tundra. And I gotta say, the only pickup that can rival the Ridgeline in turning radius is the GMC Denali w/ Quadrateer (I miss that truck, its one of the best).

The Subaru Baja is also not a pickup truck. And I work for Ford, and have worked for both Nissan and Honda so you can imagine just how many different vehicles I've driven over the years. So, I'm quite serious when I say the Ridgeline is impossible to park regardless. Work trucks are excluded because of the extended bed. Pickup trucks as a whole aren't easy to park, but the Ridgeline is just laughable. I stand behind my experience 100%.

Also, you compare the Ridgeline to the Frontier and Tacoma then turn around and throw the full-size trucks into the mix...which is it? Let me help you identify the direct competitors of the Ridgeline...

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edm...100793725&maxvehicles=5&refid=&op=3&tab=specs

I'd say that the Ridgeline competes with light duty pickups according to Edmunds. I still wouldn't call it a pickup truck when it isn't on a ladder frame. Either way, if you want an SUV that is shaped like a truck I'd grab the Sport Trac as its an infinitly better, more comfortable, more capability where it counts, and especially since you can grab the 4.6L V8 and get yourself more power--something the Ridgeline can't do.

-> And another thing, about that trunk. If you have to put something valuable then thats the place, or it can be a big gigantic cooler or just like what Automobile magazine did, made it into a bathtub. It just plain common sense really. Sucky payload? Come on, it only has a mediocre engine and if you compare it to the Avalanche, the Ridge has more payload. 👍

The Avalanche is as much of (not) a pickup truck as the Subaru Baja. The only thing the Avalanche does fifty times better than the Ridgeline is towing. The "trunk" in the bed is a GIMMICK pure and simple.

-> Your comments about the Ridge was a little bit outlandish. And take note, this is Honda's first take on a large truck in a grand scale. And this truck is more for the suburban/city types not rancher/contruction purposes.

To the statement in bold -> then don't call it a truck when it clearly isn't. Nissan's and Toyota's first attempt at pickup trucks were quite successful. And again, the Ridgeline isn't a full-size medium duty pickup. What Honda created was an SUV with two thirds of a pickup truck bed.

Its nothing personal against you, I just think the Ridgeline is rubbish.

 

[Tornado]

Either way, if you want an SUV that is shaped like a truck I'd grab the Sport Trac as its an infinitly better, more comfortable, more capability where it counts, and especially since you can grab the 4.6L V8 and get yourself more power--something the Ridgeline can't do.

You had me up until there:
Anything and everything the Sport Trac does, the Avalanche will do much better, barring a marginal advantage to the Ford in payload. The Sport Trac also has nothing on the Ridgeline unless you get one with a V8, and then it is an apples to oranges comparison anyways. Base model to base model, the Honda is way in front of the Sport Trac, with the only thing the Sport Trac being notably better at being payload and marginally better at towing. All this despite the Honda's "wussy frame" and being in a different size class.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

The Ridgeline is an SUV not a pickup truck. Any full-size medium duty (and most light duty) ladder frame pickup will completely destroy the Ridgeline in every test given in terms of hauling and towing capabiliy. Which is what ALL pickup trucks are measured in.

^ Yes, I do agree because of its mediocre engine and a hefty weight handicap. Plus despite for its "softie" uni-body frame, the frame is pretty damn stiff.

Thanks for pointing out another flaw I missed, the driving position is completely rubbish. Leg room is bad, and I'm referring to the HORIZONTAL leg room not VERTICAL leg room--which conviently the vertical leg room the Ridgeline DOES have is partially what gives it the rubbish driving position. I've ridden in 25 year old Chevy pickups with a better driving position.

^ Hmm, so you don't like the dining chair driving position, now I get it. 25 year olds chevys, nice, I've ridden them too and I think those older pickups have their steering too close to you.

The Subaru Baja is also not a pickup truck. And I work for Ford, and have worked for both Nissan and Honda so you can imagine just how many different vehicles I've driven over the years. So, I'm quite serious when I say the Ridgeline is impossible to park regardless. Work trucks are excluded because of the extended bed. Pickup trucks as a whole aren't easy to park, but the Ridgeline is just laughable. I stand behind my experience 100%.

^ I hope you don't mind me asking, are all the the pickups you've driven are in the same crew-cab/short-bed configuration on both compact and full-size? I also do stand behind my experience by 100% too.

Also, you compare the Ridgeline to the Frontier and Tacoma then turn around and throw the full-size trucks into the mix...which is it? Let me help you identify the direct competitors of the Ridgeline...

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edm...100793725&maxvehicles=5&refid=&op=3&tab=specs

^ I do also compare the Ridge against the compact mid-sizers, and it kept up if not better than those pickups. I have another link for ya, although the Sport Trac wasn't released back yet.

Do-It-All Compact Pickups

I'd say that the Ridgeline competes with light duty pickups according to Edmunds. I still wouldn't call it a pickup truck when it isn't on a ladder frame. Either way, if you want an SUV that is shaped like a truck I'd grab the Sport Trac as its an infinitly better, more comfortable, more capability where it counts, and especially since you can grab the 4.6L V8 and get yourself more power--something the Ridgeline can't do.

^ Oh well that your own opinion of not calling it a 'pickup truck', and the whole world says it is. Other than the Ridgeline, if I do want a SUV-based pickup that would be the Avalanche LT, gotta use that mid-gate. The Sport Trac just looks good but not any better than the rest of the class.

The Avalanche is as much of (not) a pickup truck as the Subaru Baja. The only thing the Avalanche does fifty times better than the Ridgeline is towing. The "trunk" in the bed is a GIMMICK pure and simple.

^ As what I've said before, the Ridge may have a disadvantage in towing, but the payload is good.

Edmunds.com

Then don't call it a truck when it clearly isn't. Nissan's and Toyota's first attempt at pickup trucks were quite successful. And again, the Ridgeline isn't a full-size medium duty pickup. What Honda created was an SUV with two thirds of a pickup truck bed.

^ Even though its an SUV with a 2/3, it does serve its purpose as a pickup even to its minimalist way, same goes to the Chevy Avalanche, Subaru Baja, Nissan AD Resort, Daihatsu MidgetII, Chrysler GEM, Holden [VE] Ute, and the Ford Falcon XR8 Utility (seen here below).

^ And lookie, it has those Super Duty tail lamps!

Its nothing personal against you, I just think the Ridgeline is rubbish.

^ Hey no problem, but I think we're getting off-topic now, I think we should stop.

BT-> Speaking about the Falcon Utility, will Ford (the Ranchero) respond to the GM Aussie onslaught?

 

[Joey D]

Some more information off the Autoblog:

We don't have all the details on how these two images were obtained, but it appears they were snapped during a product presentation for future Holden vehicles. We see for the first time Holden's VE Commodore Wagon, which is based on the newish VE Commodore sedan and will share the car's engine lineup of a 255-hp 2.6L V6 and 362-hp 6.0L V8 for the SS version. The other pic reveals the high performance version of the recently unveiled VE Ute called the HSV Ute Maloo. The aggressive trucklet will be powered by a 411-hp 6.0L LS2 V8, and as you can see, will sport a very aggressive body kit. As a matter of fact, if Lamborghini made a car-based pickup, it might just look like this.

Knowing that Holden will be releasing a wagon version of the VE Commodore begs the question whether or not we'll see something similar in the U.S. It could be a Pontiac G8 or Chevy Impala Wagon, though either one would make a compelling alternative to the Dodge Magnum.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> Now thats what I'm talking about!

Holden Commodore [VE] SS-V wagon:

^ Now thats the car that will give those Audi, BMW, MBZ, and especially Dodge a run for its money. Please GM, please bring this beauty here, never mind the Ute, this is the one I want! This will compensate the lack of hi-po wagons that is not available in the US.

 

[Joey D]

What would they call it? I'm all for the Nomad.

 

[YSSMAN]

A few things...

- Selling the Ute under Saturn: It wont happen. There are already plans, reportedly, on the shelf for a SUT version (think Avalanche, Escalade EXT, H2 SUT, H3 SUT) of the Saturn Outlook, which would completely negate the meaning behind having the Ute at Saturn. Furthermore, it wouldn't work because Saturn is officially aligned with Opel/Vauxhall, while Pontiac and Chevrolet are unofficially aligned with Holden (the two companies sharing some of the different vehicles).

- Commodore Estate: Is that not the most bad-ass wagon, ever? I mean, I thought the Magnum was cool, but that just rocks with the SS-V trim... Think about it; 430 BHP LS3, six-speed M10 manual, a sport suspension to rival the best from Europe... A poor man's M5 Estate!

Oh, and it wouldn't be called a Nomad if they brought it here. Chances are that the Nomad would be spun off of the Malibu, that is, if the rumored wagon version isn't called just the 'Malibu Wagon.'

- HSV Maloo: Holy f'in crap, that is awesome! Power, performance, utility... This is what needs to be the El Camino SS...

 

[Joey D]

I like the name Maloo anyways, it's so strange that I think it would sell the car with no problem here in the states. People like weird things.