The real racing simulator

I did read It and agree with you 100%. I was just stating that the name started as Gran Turismo-The Real DRIVING simulator, and maybe thats why they have kept the game the way it is and not listened to a lot of fans over the years.
Sorry if I sounded a bit rude then. I thought you was one of the 'its a driving sim so the rest doesn't matter' crowd. It's usually people in the PD defence force who will use the driving sim theme as an excuse for PD's lack of making a game that has anything that resembles any sort of racing.

I created this thread to discuss idea's on how to make racing better. Some idea's would make the racing better without even touching the AI. the driving in GT5 was already really good so I don't understand why PD didn't put more focus on the racing (gameplay) in this game. Especially now that the made grinding an even bigger part in collecting cars.

Keeping it just a driving sim is fine with me to. Just give us all the cars from the start and you won't ever here me talking about how boring it is. But if they want us to "race" for credits to buy cars, than atleast make it a fun thing to do.
 
With the term ''driving simulator'' I think of cruising in a more realistic version of Midnight Club, without racing, but still with modifications that people could make. We have none of that.
 
Skimmed through this gravedig and a couple of things stand out:

This is the one thing that "the real driving simulator" is lacking.

In the end, a simulator lacks drama. It lacks intrigue.

GT5 has pretty cars (and some not so pretty). GT5 has pretty tracks. It has pretty good physics. But it has no soul.
Looks like @HaylRayzor hit the nail on the head if only you changed GT5 to GT6 in his post.👍👍

I keep forgetting about P CARS. It's like they read my posts over the past eight years, because the concept is very similar. The one crucial difference is that Kazunori worked with Nissan to create GT Academy, and the racing world accommodated it, so Kaz has almost no excuse to keep him from doing this in GT6 in some form or fashion.

Oh the incredible, delicious, delectable irony:D. Not only did he say Kaz has no excuse (NO EXCUSE!!) for not creating a real racing simulator, he basically said that PCars is very similar to all of his posts over the last 8 years. In other words, PCars incorporates everything that @Tenacious D wants in a racing simulator. Oh the irony!! :lol::lol::lol:
 
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Skimmed through this gravedig and a couple of things stand out:


Looks like @HaylRayzor hit the nail on the head if only you changed GT5 to GT6 in his post.👍👍



Oh the incredible, delicious, delectable irony:D. Not did he say Kaz has no excuse (NO EXCUSE!!) for not creating a real racing simulator, he basically said that PCars is very similar to all of hist posts over the last 8 years. In other words, PCars incorporates everything that @Tenacious D wants in a racing simulator. Oh the irony!! :lol::lol::lol:

Yikes!
 
Oh the incredible, delicious, delectable irony:D. Not only did he say Kaz has no excuse (NO EXCUSE!!) for not creating a real racing simulator, he basically said that PCars is very similar to all of his posts over the last 8 years. In other words, PCars incorporates everything that @Tenacious D wants in a racing simulator. Oh the irony!! :lol::lol::lol:
I hate to blow out a candle you just lit with such enthusiasm, but I have to take back a lot of what I said about Project CARS. ;)

My mopey post on April 1st was kind of an April Fools stunt. Mostly. P CARS does look like a great racer, and it may be the PC sim for gamers who don't like PC sims, but that remains to be seen. My main sigh point is the lack of street cars, which SMS were making noises about having quite a few early on in development. But looking at the site Apr 1, the "civilian" car list is rather lame. There is supposed to be some sort of mad (gah!) MOD system for them, from what I recall, and a livery editor for the cars, and that career a few people are sure will be outstanding, but I really have no clue how well any of that will work because details are so scarce. You know, what people complain about from PD.

Plus, on having no excuse for not including a sim-like racing structure in GT7 now, Kaz actually does have one, because a surprising number of people here don't like the idea. Just shooting from the hip on this, it seems like the ratio is about what it is against the Standard cars, at about a third. Still, that's something to consider, just as people insist that yanking all the Standard cars is too.

Now what I would like to see is something that would make everyone happy, and that's making that true sim-like Career Mode a separate GT Pro section, which is completely different from the usual Gran Turismo tradition of racing for cash and prize cars. In GT Pro Career, I propose a series of tiers, each one a racing season of increasing length as you move up the ladder, and reflecting the worlds of GT Academy and pro racing leagues as I posted previously. I would like to see the option to return to the beginning of every season as reigning champion, and as often as you like. I can see an economy of prize credits as well as sponsorships which you will use to buy into the next tier in the ladder, to acquire a racing car and possibly a racing team to keep it maintained. Each tier can begin with a series of those dreaded License Tests.

You begin with Karts, and if you're going to have Karts, the beginning is where you would use them. Have a brief "season" followed by a championship series. I'd prefer that this be a flexible season, personally, as everyone (me) doesn't really dig them, but it can be longer for those who like Kart racing. An easy way to accomplish this is to have "optional" and "mandatory" races for each tier, but fewer in subsequent levels, and I expect every race to be mandatory in the final tier.

Next, something like a combo of America's SCCA club and GT Academy, in which you guy a sports car and mod it to the specs of the series and slap a livery on it. Go through a longer season to the championship series. This is a level typified by cars such as the Miata, RX-7, 350Z, Mustang and the like.

Move up a tier to serious high performance cars, something like SCCA Pro where the cars have more power, and you can choose a path from the likes of the 300ZX, mid-powered BMWs and Supra to Vipers, Corvettes, Ferraris, RUFs and Lamborghinis.

Complete that, and now you're ready to enter a professional racing league. Choose from World Rally, BTCC, WTCC, ALMS, DTM, FIA GT, Super GT, Formula GT and whatever else PD can come up with. Stick with that league at the end of the season as reigning champ, or hop to another league. This is where I would be quite happy with fantasy leagues, such as an Asia GT in which we could use cars such as the Spirra and Cizeta, which actually make great race cars, and something which all those Ferraris, Lamborghinis and other supercars can fit into. While users could create their own leagues with Race Modded and Liveried cars running on stock and Course Maker tracks, I would prefer that PD be responsible for this enhancement.

Arcade and GT Mode should remain to give everyone their traditional sandbox racer they're familiar with, along with a well designed Online system and an Event Maker which can be used offline to make anything from a single event to a racing season, reflecting the tiers in GT Pro. This should make everyone and their crew chief happy.
 
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April 1st? You didn't post what he quoted on April 1st. As for a few people on this forum being an excuse for Kaz not creating a proper racing game, now you must be joking. That's hilarious.

Your "shoot from the hip" stat is also similarly hilarious.
 
I'm happy I could lighten your sour mood. ;) By the way, my 4-1/1-4 post was something else.

One more thing, thank you for furthering the discussion...
 
I hate to blow out a candle you just lit with such enthusiasm, but I have to take back a lot of what I said about Project CARS. ;)

My mopey post on April 1st was kind of an April Fools stunt. Mostly. P CARS does look like a great racer, and it may be the PC sim for gamers who don't like PC sims, but that remains to be seen. My main sigh point is the lack of street cars, which SMS were making noises about having quite a few early on in development. But looking at the site Apr 1, the "civilian" car list is rather lame. There is supposed to be some sort of mad system for them, from what I recall, and a livery editor for the cars, and that career a few people are sure will be outstanding, but I really have no clue how well any of that will work because details are so scarce. You know, what people complain about from PD.

Plus, on having no excuse for not including a sim-like racing structure in GT7 now, Kaz actually does have one, because a surprising number of people here don't like the idea. Just shooting from the hip on this, it seems like the ratio is about what it is against the Standard cars, at about a third. Still, that's something to consider, just as people insist that yanking all the Standard cars is too.

Now what I would like to see is something that would make everyone happy, and that's making that true sim-like Career Mode a separate GT Pro section, which is completely different from the usual Gran Turismo tradition of racing for cash and prize cars. In GT Pro Career, I propose a series of tiers, each one a racing season of increasing length as you move up the ladder, and reflecting the worlds of GT Academy and pro racing leagues as I posted previously. I would like to see the option to return to the beginning of every season as reigning champion, and as often as you like. I can see an economy of prize credits as well as sponsorships which you will use to buy into the next tier in the ladder, to acquire a racing car and possibly a racing team to keep it maintained. Each tier can begin with a series of those dreaded License Tests.

You begin with Karts, and if you're going to have Karts, the beginning is where you would use them. Have a brief "season" followed by a championship. I'd prefer that this be a flexible season, personally, as everyone (me) doesn't really dig them, but it can be longer for those who like Kart racing.

Next, something like a combo of America's SCCA club and GT Academy, in which you guy a sports car and mod it to the specs of the series and slap a livery on it. Go through a longer season to the championship. This is a level typified by cars such as the Miata, RX-7, 350Z, Mustang and the like.

Move up a tier to serious high performance cars, something like SCCA Pro where the cars have more power, and you can choose a path from the likes of the 300ZX, mid-powered BMWs and Supra to Vipers, Corvettes, Ferraris, RUFs and Lamborghinis.

Now you're ready to enter a professional racing league. Choose from World Rally, BTCC, WTCC, ALMS, DTM, FIA GT, Super GT, Formula GT and whatever else PD can come up with. Stick with that league at the end of the season as reigning champ, or hop to another league. This is where I would be quite happy with fantasy leagues, such as an Asia GT in which we could use cars such as the Spirra and Cizeta, which actually make great race cars, and something which all those Ferraris, Lamborghinis and other supercars can fit into.

Arcade and GT Mode should remain to give everyone their traditional sandbox racer they're familiar with, along with a well designed Online system and an Event Maker which can be used offline to make anything from a single event to a racing season, reflecting the tiers in GT Pro. This should make everyone and their crew chief happy.
Sorry Pal, not buying it. The only thing different about PCars then and now is not enough street cars, in your opinion anyway. Of course that's on top of a stellar car list without a single lemon in the bunch. While I understand that's a big issue for you, and it matters to me too, I don't see how you can sour on a whole game that you described as, "It's like they read my posts over the past eight years, because the concept is very similar." Really, it brings together 8 years of your posts and because it doesn't have enough street cars (in your opinion) you are now "sighing" on the game. Nope, not buying it.

And all those wonderful wishes you have for GT7, you had the same wishes for GT6 (and GT5 too?...wasn't around then...) and said, and I quote, "Kaz has almost NO EXCUSE to keep him from doing this in GT6 in some form or fashion." I wonder what the excuse will be for GT7? :dunce::dunce::lol::lol:

But of course there's always SONY...or that old Japanese culture thing....or maybe it's us bad, bad, bad members at GTP:lol:...oh wait...I know...it's PS3!!!!! Yeah the PS3 prevented them from designing a real career mode. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
Sorry Pal, not buying it. The only thing different about PCars then and now is not enough street cars, in your opinion anyway. Of course that's on top of a stellar car list without a single lemon in the bunch. While I understand that's a big issue for you, and it matters to me too, I don't see how you can sour on a whole game that you described as, "It's like they read my posts over the past eight years, because the concept is very similar." Really, it brings together 8 years of your posts and because it doesn't have enough street cars (in your opinion) you are now "sighing" on the game. Nope, not buying it.
You have surely heard of the term "preliminary specs." If not, I'm sorely disappointed in you. ;)

Anyhow, disbelieve all you want, but I expected more. Plus, I have no idea what these awesome career features are. If it's basically a revamp of Toca, will you treat it like the best thing since locking washers?

And all those wonderful wishes you have for GT7, you had the same wishes for GT6 (and GT5 too?...wasn't around then...) and said, and I quote, "Kaz has almost NO EXCUSE to keep him from doing this in GT6 in some form or fashion." I wonder what the excuse will be for GT7? :dunce::dunce::lol::lol:
I have said more than once that Gran Turismo has spoiled me for other games. Maybe that will jog your memory, Laughing Man. ;)

But of course there's always SONY...or that old Japanese culture thing....or maybe it's us bad, bad, bad members at GTP:lol:...oh wait...I know...it's PS3!!!!! Yeah the PS3 prevented them from designing a real career mode. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
Need I remind you that meddling from Electronic Arts shot a huge hole in the bow of NFS Shift 1 and 2, and drove SMS away. But of course, SONY would never get involved because they think they own the company or anything, nope, nope, nope...
 
Just finished another single player session on GT6, will I ever walk away without the feeling of disappointment or that PD have taken its fan base and milked it for every penny, easy game, easy money. Shameful to say it but such a dull experience everytime. The fact my modern day family car sounds more powerful and has more aggressive gear changes than 95% of PD cars is one of many nuiances.
Compared to a track day this game is woeful.

I don't care for multiplayer its the same old tosh, either bad losers smashing you off the road or wide eyed gamers who play it every waking hour and know every track inside out and how to get the most out of the *games* handling.

Give us something different, something with life instead of this dull merry-go-round grind.
 
You have surely heard of the term "preliminary specs." If not, I'm sorely disappointed in you. ;)

Anyhow, disbelieve all you want, but I expected more. Plus, I have no idea what these awesome career features are. If it's basically a revamp of Toca, will you treat it like the best thing since locking washers?


I have said more than once that Gran Turismo has spoiled me for other games. Maybe that will jog your memory, Laughing Man. ;)


Need I remind you that meddling from Electronic Arts shot a huge hole in the bow of NFS Shift 1 and 2, and drove SMS away. But of course, SONY would never get involved because they think they own the company or anything, nope, nope, nope...

SMS were not a direct subsidiary of EA. That makes a difference in what you do at the request of the publisher. When you're just a hired team you do whatever the publish asks, they hired you for that cause. When you're a direct subsidiary like PD you're much more in control, you can't easily be dropped for another developer, you are much more in control of what you do yourself.
 
Sure, that makes sense...

Kaz to SCE board: I have decided that the next Gran Turismo is going to be a steampunk RPG in the vein of a fantasy resembling Transformers, but very different, mostly-

Head of Board: Your humor is quite charming, shacho-san, but April Fools Day was some time ago. Now, we have important business to discuss with you about the sales progress of Gran Turismo, and the plans for Playstation 4.

Kaz: (sigh) Of course...
 
You have surely heard of the term "preliminary specs." If not, I'm sorely disappointed in you. ;)

Anyhow, disbelieve all you want, but I expected more. Plus, I have no idea what these awesome career features are. If it's basically a revamp of Toca, will you treat it like the best thing since locking washers?
Still not buying it. Awesome career features. The broad strokes are there and easy to find if you look for it, but just about anything could trounce GT's mishmash of too short races, in a format and with AI that in no way resemble real racing. Even you, as biased as you are, should be able to admit that after 15 years and several iterations of the game, the career mode in GT is about as lame as it could be and in no way gives you the feeling of being in a racing career. It's just a random collection of events for the most part.
 
Sure, that makes sense...

Kaz to SCE board: I have decided that the next Gran Turismo is going to be a steampunk RPG in the vein of a fantasy resembling Transformers, but very different, mostly-

Head of Board: Your humor is quite charming, shacho-san, but April Fools Day was some time ago. Now, we have important business to discuss with you about the sales progress of Gran Turismo, and the plans for Playstation 4.

Kaz: (sigh) Of course...

Sure, take it to extremes. That validates your point.
 
Still not buying it. Awesome career features. The broad strokes are there and easy to find if you look for it, but just about anything could trounce GT's mishmash of too short races, in a format and with AI that in no way resemble real racing. Even you, as biased as you are, should be able to admit that after 15 years and several iterations of the game, the career mode in GT is about as lame as it could be and in no way gives you the feeling of being in a racing career. It's just a random collection of events for the most part.
You know, somehow you guys act like those of us who like this game are just fibbing through our fonts. You also act like I've never tried a PC sim, like my recent dissatisfying run with my motorcrossing relative and Assetto Corsa, which I MENTIONED soured me on the idea of all the next gen PC sims. I don't completely write off P CARS, but I'll have to say that if the impression you got from my posts is that I have, you have a real problem with reading comprehension. Having said that though, I'm more enthused about GT7 than ANY PC sim racer. Those, to borrow a phrase, I'm just not sold on.

Sure, take it to extremes. That validates your point.
Look. Between SONY and Kaz, if one of them wants to drop GT6 for the most part and forge ahead with GT7/Prologue as soon as possible, and the other wants to focus on GT6 for a year or two, who do you think is going to win?

I'm fully aware that Kaz has a certain amount of leeway in SONY, but do you honestly believe SONY would let Kaz do whatever the heck he wants to? Playstation has an incredibly strong developer community, but the system and SONY both are genetically tied to Gran Turismo, and I have to believe that SONY Corp has some definite interest in how things go with their baby. Now, hopefully we can agree on something around here, because this is getting old...
 
You know, somehow you guys act like those of us who like this game are just fibbing through our fonts. You also act like I've never tried a PC sim, like my recent dissatisfying run with my motorcrossing relative and Assetto Corsa, which I MENTIONED soured me on the idea of all the next gen PC sims. I don't completely write off P CARS, but I'll have to say that if the impression you got from my posts is that I have, you have a real problem with reading comprehension. Having said that though, I'm more enthused about GT7 than ANY PC sim racer. Those, to borrow a phrase, I'm just not sold on.
Way to be open minded. "PCars has everything I ever wanted in 9 years of posting on GTP". Oh wait, it has everything I ever wanted except enough street cars..oh darn back to GT7 (not released and not a single clue on features but it must be better because Kaz):lol:

"I tried the Beta of one sim that has a very limited budget and that soured me on the idea of ALL next generation sims"...yup...real open minded. :lol:

EDIT: I'm not talking to "those of us", don't try to turn this into a group thing, it's only you here. If someone else has something to say they can say it for themselves right?
 
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"I tried the Beta of one sim that has a very limited budget and that soured me on the idea of ALL next generation sims"...yup...real open minded. :lol:
That also happens to be highly regarded in the sim community, from my understanding. Or maybe I'm missing thousands of "AC suxors" threads in the sim section.

Anyway, tired of you too, no more.
 
Just finished another single player session on GT6, will I ever walk away without the feeling of disappointment or that PD have taken its fan base and milked it for every penny, easy game, easy money. Shameful to say it but such a dull experience everytime. The fact my modern day family car sounds more powerful and has more aggressive gear changes than 95% of PD cars is one of many nuiances.
Compared to a track day this game is woeful.

I don't care for multiplayer its the same old tosh, either bad losers smashing you off the road or wide eyed gamers who play it every waking hour and know every track inside out and how to get the most out of the *games* handling.

Give us something different, something with life instead of this dull merry-go-round grind.

You should try Forza dude. The first time i got my hands on that i was sold. I was hyped for GT5, bought a Ps3 just for it. played it a few weeks, sold it, and went back to Forza. Its a no brainer.
 
personaly, i still believe GT, with more and better difficulty levels, could be for everybody. slow and fast drivers, so much arcade as simulator. we are talking about offline, so ... i'll say again ... a full race creator with better race regulations, would do wonders.

gossshhhh DANGIT! PD's lameness is tearing us apart!
:indiff:

wount call it "PD's lameness", but that "tearing us apart" is kinda, sad but true.
who would be here, gtplanet, talking about forza, pcars, asseto corsa or driveclub if GT didnt hade this halfdonne(unfinished, unoptimized) feeling? where would be the need for any other game!?

WE CARE, LET US PLAY.jpg
 
personaly, i still believe GT, with more and better difficulty levels, could be for everybody. slow and fast drivers, so much arcade as simulator. we are talking about offline, so ... i'll say again ... a full race creator with better race regulations, would do wonders.



wount call it "PD's lameness", but that "tearing us apart" is kinda, sad but true.
who would be here, gtplanet, talking about forza, pcars, asseto corsa or driveclub if GT didnt hade this halfdonne(unfinished, unoptimized) feeling? where would be the need for any other game!?

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A race creator would be a good start. I really hope PD has learned from the mistakes made in GT6 and focus more on gameplay and less the physics. Not that they should throw all that they have done out the window. Make the game more exciting like racing should be.
 
A race creator would be a good start. I really hope PD has learned from the mistakes made in GT6 and focus more on gameplay and less the physics. Not that they should throw all that they have done out the window. Make the game more exciting like racing should be.
- "a race creator would be a good start" - yes, featured since gt1 and for ever ;)
- "I really hope PD has learned from the mistakes made in GT6..." - well, some mistakes came from gt5 so ....
- "... and focus more on gameplay and less the physics." - PD can do both and PS4 has a lot of power, its there to be used. they say, ps4 is 8/10 times more powerfull than ps3, use it.
- "Not that they should throw all that they have done out the window." - personaly, i never hade any problem with what they have done, only about what they have not done. the "full race creator" is a good example, i dont dislike "arcade", my problem is the neglect and absence of all the other possible race options.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/poll-race-creator-for-career-mode.294535/
 
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