What does PD have to do to keep you from buying an xbox?

Actually, I can't think of any Xbox exclusives I ever have wanted to play other than Grand Theft Auto: Episodes From Liberty City and it ended up on the PS3 anyway. On the other hand Sony has had several exclusives I really wanted to pick up so thank god I became familiar with Playstation back in 1996. The next Forza might do all it can to convert Gran Turismo players but none of the trailers or screenshots speak to my soul.
 
I'm not a fanboy of either title as I feel each has something different to offer. I will say this however. I own BOTH the Xbox and the PS-3. I also have both Forza and GT. I have Forza 2/3 (soon to be 4), and I also have GT-4, GT (PSP), GT Prologue, and GT-5.

In my opinion PD "does" need to do something for GT to keep "my" interest. Lately I have gotten very bored with GT-5. The problem with GT-5 (IMO) is the offline game play. GT-5's offline mode is VERY weak IMO. The A-Spec Mode is so small on events. I have absolutely no interest in B-Spec racing either. I don't buy a racing title to sit on the side line barking orders at a virtual driver. Plus.., the Arcade Mode is a joke. Completely unbalanced system for AI vehicle selection based on the players selected vehicle.

What PD needs to consider is that there is a large percentage of "offline players", who play GT. A lot of people (myself included) do not race online. Offline players in GT-5 got the shaft IMO.

All this talk about DLC car packs to keep interest makes no sense to me. There are over 1000 vehicles already in this title. Granted we can argue which should have been Standard or Premium.., but the fact remains there are already over 1000 vehicles. What PD (IMO) needs to do is add more EVENTS to A-Spec.

To those of you who trash Forza.., all I can say is you really haven't a clue. So many GT players (that I've noticed) who don't own an Xbox that trash Forza have NEVER played it, or even SEEN it outside of YouTube Videos. The graphics in Forza-3 are very good, the game play is very good. The physics with a wheel are also really good as well. Every car is Premium, and the track selection is well balanced. Forza also offers the ability to adjust tire pressure, as GT does not. How any title that doesn't allow such a crucial tuning option to be adjusted to then portray itself as a SIM is beyond me.

We can argue which is better till we're blue in the face, but what can't be ignored are FACTS. To those of you who haven't played or seen Forza in person. I strongly suggest you find someone who has the title. Forza-3's offline game mode literally destroys GT-5. Forza offers other features that are not available in GT. Forza has an amazing livery editor, huge online set up for trading tunes, liveries, ect.

All I can suggest is this. If you have a friend who owns Forza, ask them to show you the EVENT LIST. Trust me.., you'll sh** your pants when you see the size of it. Also.., have your friend show you the livery editor.., AND MOST IMPORTANTLY have your friend take you to the online market house. Take a good look at the AMAZING real life replica and custom liveries that have been created by the fans.

Like I said.., I like both titles..., but GT doesn't offer enough offline material for me to stay interested. For those of us who are not online players.., we need a good solid event list (LOADED) with events. We also need a good FREE RACE mode where we can set up our own races and don't have to worry about the system not being able to properly match AI vehicles to the players vehicle.

On the topic of FREE RACE set up..., have a friend who owns Forza show you the options available for setting up your own races against the AI. Again.., you'll probably sh** your pants when you see how much control you have over the race settings.

I also feel that it's important to take note of something else. As much as I like racing titles on my consoles.., the HARSH reality folks is that these "are not" SIMS. I think a lot of people don't seem to really understand the difference between a SIM and a "Console" SIM. The two are VERY different. Many of the top "Console" SIM racers who have never played a REAL SIM would get their a$$es handed to them against real SIM racers. It's not to say that Consoler SIMS suck.., but they really can't hold a candle to a real PC SIM. What people have to accept is that you'll never get a full SIM title on console (not because the developers can't make them).., but simply because NOT ONE console has the ability or HARDWARE to push a real SIM.
 
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PD doesn't have to do a thing to keep me playing. I have only considered getting an XBox to play Halo. I've seen and played a little Forza in person. He looks to "cartoony" to me and the livery editor is just stupid in my opinion.

GT5 is perfect in my view. Keep it up PD. 👍
 
Nothing, absolutely nothing, I think I will never buy a xbox because I have been playing GT game since 1998. Besides, GT game create by PD is the original, Forza is just a knock-off
 
EliteDreamer
PD doesn't have to do a thing to keep me playing. I have only considered getting an XBox to play Halo. I've seen and played a little Forza in person. He looks to "cartoony" to me and the livery editor is just stupid in my opinion.

GT5 is perfect in my view. Keep it up PD. 👍
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I used to think the livery editor was stupid when I got Forza-2.., but then one day I "actually used it". Like I said.., to really get an idea of how "not stupid" the livery editor is.., go to the online market and have a look at the work that has been done by the community. At least in Forza you can make your vehicles LOOK like a race car (be it custom or replica).

Forza doesn't offer the full cockpit upgrades that you get in Shift.., but in Forza if you do a full a full weight reduction you'll see the passenger seat gone.., and if you add a roll cage you can SEE the roll cage. Again.., goes along with at least be able to make your car not only perform like a race car.., but LOOK like one too.

Like I said..., both titles IMO have something different to offer. I don't look at them as which is BETTER.., I look at what each has to offer and what features will keep me interested in the long run.
 
squeakD
All this talk about DLC car packs to keep interest makes no sense to me. There are over 1000 vehicles already in this title. Granted we can argue which should have been Standard or Premium.., but the fact remains there are already over 1000 vehicles. What PD (IMO) needs to do is add more EVENTS to A-Spec.

What people have to accept is that you'll never get a full SIM title on console (not because the developers can't make them).., but simply because NOT ONE console has the ability or HARDWARE to push a real SIM.
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I agree with much of what you wrote squeakD. Except for these two statements.

I agree that offline mode in GT5 is very weak. Online, with the right group of like minded people is another world. But it's not the lack of events that make offline mode weak. It's the horrible, loathsome AI that makes it so intolerable. PD can add 50 new events to A-spec through a patch, they could add 500, 5,000,000, 5,000,000,000--it wouldn't matter. Until they can reprogram the AI to race competitively, it won't make any difference. They're slow, they brake too early, the brake mid apex, they turn into you mid corner. I've said it before. The AI in this game is not designed to race you. They're nothing but moving chicanes designed to slow you down and make you fail. This is why nearly all of the seasonal events aren't really races but a game of 'chase the chicken'. People are fooled into thinking the AI is better because you're starting the race behind a dozen other cars. If they were grid starts, you'd probably out brake half the field going into the first corner. Even after this last patch, the AI needs SERIOUS work. Not just an update but a complete overhaul.

And as far as your comment about modern console hardware not being able to handle the demands of a modern PC sim, well I'm sorry but this is patently false, by any measure. At the time Rfactor was released, the hardware in the PS3 and Xbox360 was pretty cutting edge compared to the average PC of the day. There is NO reason you can't have a reasonable sim racing engine on a current console. Do you really think there's anything about netkar pro or GTR Evolution that would make it incapable of being ported to the PS3? The reason you don't see any dedicated sims on game consoles is because console developers are forced to design their games for a much broader market. The 'average' Xbox or PS3 console racer is a casual gamer, sitting on the couch with the controller in hand, all aids turned on, using the racing line. Console racers sitting in a Playseat with a G27 or T500RS do not represent the 'average' GT5 player.
 
squeakD
I'm not a fanboy of either title as I feel each has something different to offer. I will say this however. I own BOTH the Xbox and the PS-3. I also have both Forza and GT. I have Forza 2/3 (soon to be 4), and I also have GT-4, GT (PSP), GT Prologue, and GT-5.

In my opinion PD "does" need to do something for GT to keep "my" interest. Lately I have gotten very bored with GT-5. The problem with GT-5 (IMO) is the offline game play. GT-5's offline mode is VERY weak IMO. The A-Spec Mode is so small on events. I have absolutely no interest in B-Spec racing either. I don't buy a racing title to sit on the side line barking orders at a virtual driver. Plus.., the Arcade Mode is a joke. Completely unbalanced system for AI vehicle selection based on the players selected vehicle.

What PD needs to consider is that there is a large percentage of "offline players", who play GT. A lot of people (myself included) do not race online. Offline players in GT-5 got the shaft IMO.

All this talk about DLC car packs to keep interest makes no sense to me. There are over 1000 vehicles already in this title. Granted we can argue which should have been Standard or Premium.., but the fact remains there are already over 1000 vehicles. What PD (IMO) needs to do is add more EVENTS to A-Spec.

To those of you who trash Forza.., all I can say is you really haven't a clue. So many GT players (that I've noticed) who don't own an Xbox that trash Forza have NEVER played it, or even SEEN it outside of YouTube Videos. The graphics in Forza-3 are very good, the game play is very good. The physics with a wheel are also really good as well. Every car is Premium, and the track selection is well balanced. Forza also offers the ability to adjust tire pressure, as GT does not. How any title that doesn't allow such a crucial tuning option to be adjusted to then portray itself as a SIM is beyond me.

We can argue which is better till we're blue in the face, but what can't be ignored are FACTS. To those of you who haven't played or seen Forza in person. I strongly suggest you find someone who has the title. Forza-3's offline game mode literally destroys GT-5. Forza offers other features that are not available in GT. Forza has an amazing livery editor, huge online set up for trading tunes, liveries, ect.

All I can suggest is this. If you have a friend who owns Forza, ask them to show you the EVENT LIST. Trust me.., you'll sh** your pants when you see the size of it. Also.., have your friend show you the livery editor.., AND MOST IMPORTANTLY have your friend take you to the online market house. Take a good look at the AMAZING real life replica and custom liveries that have been created by the fans.

Like I said.., I like both titles..., but GT doesn't offer enough offline material for me to stay interested. For those of us who are not online players.., we need a good solid event list (LOADED) with events. We also need a good FREE RACE mode where we can set up our own races and don't have to worry about the system not being able to properly match AI vehicles to the players vehicle.

On the topic of FREE RACE set up..., have a friend who owns Forza show you the options available for setting up your own races against the AI. Again.., you'll probably sh** your pants when you see how much control you have over the race settings.

I also feel that it's important to take note of something else. As much as I like racing titles on my consoles.., the HARSH reality folks is that these "are not" SIMS. I think a lot of people don't seem to really understand the difference between a SIM and a "Console" SIM. The two are VERY different. Many of the top "Console" SIM racers who have never played a REAL SIM would get their a$$es handed to them against real SIM racers. It's not to say that Consoler SIMS suck.., but they really can't hold a candle to a real PC SIM. What people have to accept is that you'll never get a full SIM title on console (not because the developers can't make them).., but simply because NOT ONE console has the ability or HARDWARE to push a real SIM.
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Haha, if a billionaire spent all their money on a single computer then possibly that computer could be powerful enough to do real world physics in a racing game perfectly and model real car damage.. but imagine how many years it take to make the game, and only the worlds richest people would play it.
 
jjaisli
I agree with much of what you wrote squeakD. Except for these two statements.

I agree that offline mode in GT5 is very weak. Online, with the right group of like minded people is another world. But it's not the lack of events that make offline mode weak. It's the horrible, loathsome AI that makes it so intolerable. PD can add 50 new events to A-spec through a patch, they could add 500, 5,000,000, 5,000,000,000--it wouldn't matter. Until they can reprogram the AI to race competitively, it won't make any difference. They're slow, they brake too early, the brake mid apex, they turn into you mid corner. I've said it before. The AI in this game is not designed to race you. They're nothing but moving chicanes designed to slow you down and make you fail. This is why nearly all of the seasonal events aren't really races but a game of 'chase the chicken'. People are fooled into thinking the AI is better because you're starting the race behind a dozen other cars. If they were grid starts, you'd probably out brake half the field going into the first corner. Even after this last patch, the AI needs SERIOUS work. Not just an update but a complete overhaul.

And as far as your comment about modern console hardware not being able to handle the demands of a modern PC sim, well I'm sorry but this is patently false, by any measure. At the time Rfactor was released, the hardware in the PS3 and Xbox360 was pretty cutting edge compared to the average PC of the day. There is NO reason you can't have a reasonable sim racing engine on a current console. Do you really think there's anything about netkar pro or GTR Evolution that would make it incapable of being ported to the PS3? The reason you don't see any dedicated sims on game consoles is because console developers are forced to design their games for a much broader market. The 'average' Xbox or PS3 console racer is a casual gamer, sitting on the couch with the controller in hand, all aids turned on, using the racing line. Console racers sitting in a Playseat with a G27 or T500RS do not represent the 'average' GT5 player.
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Sorry.., but I still stand by my statement regarding the hardware capabilities. With Console SIM titles one of the biggest consumer pushed features is GRAPHICS GRAPHICS GRAPHICS. You cannot have a title with the graphical quality of GT-5 running at 60 FPS with the physics engine and amount of cars on track as you find on a PC. Consoles will choke like mad on this type of title.

If people want a full SIM on a console they have to be willing to COMPROMISE. Until the console racing community is willing to take a hit in the main area of having to have the "most realistic graphics".., these titles are always going to be Arcade Racers with "SIM like" qualities.

The best and closest example of a PC SIM on console IMO is SimBin's Race Pro. Race Pro to date still has the best vehicle tuning options.., offers fully upgraded race cars that don't require the nonsense of having to buy parts, tons of liveries for the cars, good REAL LIFE tracks, and damn good physics.

The BIGGEST and most COMMON complaint you heard about Race Pro was the graphics. Console racers are too hung up on photo quality graphics IMO. Sadly development for further patch fixes for Race Pro were dropped because the title didn't sell well due to the number one complaint regarding the graphics.
 
squeakD
Sorry.., but I still stand by my statement regarding the hardware capabilities. With Console SIM titles one of the biggest consumer pushed features is GRAPHICS GRAPHICS GRAPHICS. You cannot have a title with the graphical quality of GT-5 running at 60 FPS with the physics engine and amount of cars on track as you find on a PC. Consoles will choke like mad on this type of title.

If people want a full SIM on a console they have to be willing to COMPROMISE. Until the console racing community is willing to take a hit in the main area of having to have the "most realistic graphics".., these titles are always going to be Arcade Racers with "SIM like" qualities.

The best and closest example of a PC SIM on console IMO is SimBin's Race Pro. Race Pro to date still has the best vehicle tuning options.., offers fully upgraded race cars that don't require the nonsense of having to buy parts, tons of liveries for the cars, good REAL LIFE tracks, and damn good physics.

The BIGGEST and most COMMON complaint you heard about Race Pro was the graphics. Console racers are too hung up on photo quality graphics IMO. Sadly development for further patch fixes for Race Pro were dropped because the title didn't sell well due to the number one complaint regarding the graphics.
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I'm not sure what PC racing sims you're playing, but I can tell you, I have a Core i7 990x, 3.46GHz & a Radeon 5770 Graphics card with 1GB of Video RAM. It's beefy enough to play ANY current racing sim (that I'm aware of) cranked out to full visual quality. And between Live for Speed, GTR Evolution, RFactor & Netkar pro, NONE of these titles can match GT5 visually. When it comes to graphics and photo realism, GT5 is a step above all of them. I will admit, NFS:Shift on the PC, with everything cranked up full, does look much better compared to the Xbox or PS3 version. But there are reasons for that.

The point is, world class graphics are NOT a selling point of ANY current PC sim. And I don't know any PC sim racer who claims otherwise. Perhaps that will change with iRacing 2.0 or RFactor 2, but for the moment, the jury is out. If you're saying that console games take a hit because they put graphics and visuals first, you may have a point. But I would also argue that GT5 has probably the most true to life physics of any current console racer. And ironically, it also has the best visuals. With both console systems, developers are up against memory constraints. 256MB of video RAM is really not sufficient and GT5 gets away with it by having blocky shadows. And developers have to cut corners and take short cuts to stay within those constraints. But hardware wise, as far as pure processing power goes, it's not an issue. And either the PS3 or Xbox would be capable of running ported versions of any (current) PC sim.

Race Pro for the Xbox didn't sell well. But not because it had mediocre graphics. Its' because there just wasn't much of a market for a hard core sim in the console world. But it's existence proves it can be done.
 
Nothing at all, I once had an Xbox 360 and Forza 3 but I bought a PS3 specifically for GT5. :D

After playing Forza for quite a while I just think GT5 is a better game all around but I can't say i'll be tempted to try Forza 4 on someone else's Xbox 360.
 
I'm not quite sure if the ridiculous hatred and downright scary statements against certain consoles comes from a place of childish jealousy or resentment from not having the bucks to own all consoles but I'm not sure why people would short change themselves by not enjoying every game possible on all the systems if you can. I play both Forza 3 and GT5. Both have good points and bad points about how they handle "simulation". Forza could learn from the road feel that GT seems to have and GT could make the vehicles corner realistically because I've been driving a long time and I have yet to drive a vehicle in real life that won't let me accelerate while turning (unless the cars computer was faulty). I love GT but to me this is very comical and unrealistic. That being said, I'm completely addicted to GT5 and don't agree with much of the nitpicking about it. Forza 4 looks to have improved the lighting which is really the only graphical advantage GT has always had. Forza's environments are much better looking and organic compared to GT's angular sparce ones but this hardly takes away from how great GT is in my opinion.
 
squeakD
I used to think the livery editor was stupid when I got Forza-2.., but then one day I "actually used it". Like I said.., to really get an idea of how "not stupid" the livery editor is.., go to the online market and have a look at the work that has been done by the community. At least in Forza you can make your vehicles LOOK like a race car (be it custom or replica).
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I don't really care how "good" they look. I hate livery editors down to the core. I will not change my opinion just by looking at some car that was made by some guy who wasted his time. My opinion, moving on.
 
PD Don't have to do anything. MS, T10 and Logitech are making that decision for me. If they will not support my G27 I will not buy an xbox or Forza.

I would like to try it so I suppose is it's MS and T10 who lose out.
 
CDJW
I'm not quite sure if the ridiculous hatred and downright scary statements against certain consoles comes from a place of childish jealousy or resentment from not having the bucks to own all consoles but I'm not sure why people would short change themselves by not enjoying every game possible on all the systems if you can. I play both Forza 3 and GT5. Both have good points and bad points about how they handle "simulation". Forza could learn from the road feel that GT seems to have and GT could make the vehicles corner realistically because I've been driving a long time and I have yet to drive a vehicle in real life that won't let me accelerate while turning (unless the cars computer was faulty). I love GT but to me this is very comical and unrealistic. That being said, I'm completely addicted to GT5 and don't agree with much of the nitpicking about it. Forza 4 looks to have improved the lighting which is really the only graphical advantage GT has always had. Forza's environments are much better looking and organic compared to GT's angular sparce ones but this hardly takes away from how great GT is in my opinion.
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I wonder the same thing at times. I feel fortunate that my wife and I can afford to have all the gaming consoles (including the hand-helds). I too feel that experiencing all these different types of games on multiple platforms is great. Hell we still have the original Nintendo, Super Nintendo, Nintendo 64, Original GameBoy (plus all those in between), PS1, PS2, PS3, Wii, Xbox, PSP..., blah blah blah...

What surprises me is the console and title bashing done by those who have never played or used either the competing console or the title they're bashing.

So many PS-3 players out there like other racing titles outside of GT such as the Shift Series, and F1-2010..., but it's no secret that the Xbox versions of these titles look and perform better.

I still say PD has to get their game on come October. I'm playing GT less and less recently as I've just gotten very bored with the limited A Spec events.., and the seriously lacking Arcade Mode. Just not enough offline features to keep my interest.

I could care less about car DLC..., but bringing back some of the favorite tracks from GT-4 would be nice. I just want to see them keep adding to A Spec.

Look at all the DLC and competitions that have gone into Forza-3 put out there by T-10. For a long time they were running competitions for good prizes, ect.

T-10 IMO does an excellent job at keeping you busy offline if you're not an online player.
 
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Nothing, I buy platforms for games on their own merits, not what the "competition" is doing. PD only needs to worry about compelling reasons to keep me buying their products in addition to whatever else I may choose to play.
 
Nothing as I already have XBOX. I bought GT5/PS3 to tide me over until F4 launches. Lame damage modeling ruins GT for me. I will say the blue ray rocks though.

I also dont care about how the graphics look (to a certain degree) because I use the in car view (which is a ton better on the F3 platform). And the call of 1200 cars isnt really true when you can take one image model over a real life production cycle and it becomes 10 cars. Seems to be a cop out and lazy product delivery.

F3's AI is no prize, but its TONS better than GT's AI.

You are going to have a vehement battle with fan boi's from each camp touting their bests and blasting the worsts of the other.
 
You have some nerve if you just got gt5 to kill time and throw it away when forza4 comes out and you hate it so why did you make a gtp account,why didn't you stick to forza 3,gtp was made for granturismo and the people who loved the series and grew up with it.....>:( go on the forza forums if you want to hate on gt5..lol blowing off steam sorry my web is pissing me off but watch what you say about gt5 its done you.good
 
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Make an xbox and forza free :P im not gonna buy one for that. I like the games i have on ps3 plus online progress on cod etc.

Oh yeah. Make xbox live free aswell. Give me all that then yeah il play forza
 
mstcle323
You have some nerve if you just got gt5 to kill time and throw it away when forza4 comes out and you hate it so why did you make a gtp account,why didn't you stick to forza 3,gtp was made for granturismo and the people who loved the series and grew up with it.....>:( go on the forza forums if you want to hate on gt5..lol blowing off steam sorry my web is pissing me off but watch what you say about gt5 its done you.good
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All GT5 did for me was dissappoint. So until they get their crap together, and make it about quality not quantity, and not invisible bumper cam driving, I am always looking for a "good" racing game.

To cornhole yourself into just one game is so dumb. If your wheel isnt compatible etc. I understand, but to say you wont try another game because it isnt GT5 you are just brainwashed.
 
squeakD
Look at all the DLC and competitions that have gone into Forza-3 put out there by T-10. For a long time they were running competitions for good prizes, ect.

T-10 IMO does an excellent job at keeping you busy offline if you're not an online player.
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PD have run competitions where you win a place in a real racing team for a year......they have also run a competition where you could win a Mercedes SLS AMG..... I don't think you can say that Turn 10 have run competitions with better prizes than PD.

And if your going to include DLC for Forza then you have to admit that PD have done a very good job of prolonging A-Spec with their Seasonal event updates.
 
I bought every Forza before even getting a PS3, which I bought specifically for the Bluray player and GT5. F1 was okay, F2 was awesome, and F3 was a gigantic disapointment. I honestly don't think F4 will correct any of the issues in F3, but rather add a bunch of kinect crap that I'm not interested in anyway. I will for the first time not be buying a Forza game most likely. The stupidity that they used in developing some of the features for F3 was ridiculous. They took nearly everything good from F2 and mutilated it, but with great graphics. If they had only given the game better graphics and also left the good stuff alone they could have given GT5 a run for the money. GT5 has better physics, albeit not perfect. If PD would just consistenyl update the seasonals until GT6 comes out, which needs to be within the next 1-2 years, I would stay with PD and totally forget Forza. I doubt they will continue that commitment though, and Forza may very well improve with F4, which may persuade me back to xbox. Where xbox has the real advantage is in the multiplayer, where PS3 is sorely lacking. Multiplayer is what usually keeps a game alive for many years (ie Starcraft 1, 10+ years).
 
Visually, FM4 looks stunning. And I'm willing to bet it has nice-looking shadows too. But I don't see myself buying an Xbox just to play it. Sure, I'll play it at my mates, but I'm not going to drop $200+ on another game system.
 
On-line is what made Forza3 for me, I barely completed 40% of the game but raced everyday on line, ranking up, leaderboards, genuinely knowing how good or bad you are. Both games rock, but since i already have both consoles, FM4 can't come soon enough.
 

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