The Damage Thread - Best Buy Demo, Now Thats More Like It!

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alonsof1fan91
If the uphill S is that famous, then tell my why you can`t give it its correct name... Eau Rouge :D

I don`t get your problem. Small dents or something like that is much better then nothing. You said you want a car to be completly vaporized... K, then tell me what happens with the driver?

All those damage crying makes me really sick. Guys like Jackie Steward would have done everything to make the reality on race tracks "boring" such as GT5P and some gamers want the total opposite. Strange, isn`t it? :D

Im fine with small dents, brocken bumpers and -the most important thing- mechanical damage.
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...and if you knew how famous he was, maybe you'd spell Jackie's name right?

I'm fine with trying to make tracks safe in real life. The thing is, there's no threat of loss of life in a video game. So what does that have to do with anything?
 
SlipZtrEm
...and if you knew how famous he was, maybe you'd spell Jackie's name right?

I'm fine with trying to make tracks safe in real life. The thing is, there's no threat of loss of life in a video game. So what does that have to do with anything?
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If they represent mechanical damage and cosmetic damage that realistic,a driver in the real live will not keep going after a direct crash against a wall at 150 MPH,which is the whole point of this "level" of damage because,when you have games like shift for example you crash and that's it its part of the simulation,but if you want to recreate a very nasty accident with a fully healthy driver will simply not work,it work of shift and grid because they have a replay function,and as we know the replay function is one of the worst things that had happen to racing games,mainly because the whole point of making a good race or being in a racing game is lost because after crash you will end up rebooting.

this is suitable some games very well like shift or grid,but in gran tuirsmo where the players have at least a minimal knowledge of racing and they gain experience its complete unecesary,specially when they know that you wont be crashing into a wall at 150 MPH,there is a game call burnout for that,they maybe have expand the damage focusing on the mechanical part of it,not visuals, the fell of a real broken suspension or an exhaust loose from the cars is something that other racing simulators cannot do(you can get some effects from it there isn't anything close to real life), gran turismo seems to do it because it has a more accurate physics engine and better racing physics that other games(except from some PC sims),so is not the matter of the limitations of the visual damage,is the real accuracy of the mechanical which in the case of gran turismo is really more important that the visuals.
 
Rob-F1-Fan
sometimes Forza looks good , the rest of the time it looks **** !
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Sorry mate wrong thread. This ones about GT5.

Edit* Sorry bout that. Ofcourse it's about Forza too.
Allways will be.
 
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Zer0
If you put destruction on such an higher level I'm sure that you will enjoy this rather than a GT game:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002NTDXPU/?tag=gtplanet-20

The legal side is that you never will have that level of destruction on a branded domestic car, just look at Forza. Also hope for a higher level of damage on race cars but not to a point of a pilot death.


Organ-Donor has explained, I don't know why people keep coming to Forza's visual damage for reference, is one of the worst implementations rather simplistic and not very accurate. You will need to wait until the final full damage, specially on race cars with lost and broken parts to compare.

Forza 3 is even more restricted than Shift, GRID is the best example and I doubt that GT5 will achieve that level on race cars, but better than Forza? sure.
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I compare it with Forza because that game as lots of brands too and when you are dealing with lots of cars brands you need to do a damage make happy even the most strict brands.
Sure Grid, Dirt, Shift have better damage but they have lot less car brands and also lots of their cars are race cars instead of production vehicles, so i clearly dont expect GT5 having damage up to the level of any of those games and would be unfair to compare it with those, same goes for Forza, thats why we can only compare those 2 games because they are under similar conditions.

Thats why and compared with Forza, the damage we have seen in GT is still lacking even when is suppose to be in real time, theres no paintscratches, they need lots of very hard hits to bend a litte and we have not seen any performance affecting damage.

After watching those videos, do you even think that GT5 at this momment have better damage than that? (at this momment) i dont think is not even close, in Forza the cars looks very punished after a big crash, with quite few parts falling off the car and even if is prerender and sometimes fails in correct hit detection is far better than a car that doesnt show almost any damage after 5 or 6 100 mph crashes.
 
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Organ-Donor
Not sure if this has been fixed from the demo as I haven't played F3 in a while due to my friends 360 getting RRoD but this is pretty silly looking (not just the fact that the cars didn't even make contact, but how the damage wasn't specific to the area of impact):

But I do know that in the final game if you hit a portion of your car on a wall, scratches and dents will appear on other areas that weren't even impacted.
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👍
 
Thread-Direction.jpg


So, I see the cancer that's killing the GT5 forum has spread here as well. The damage thread has become a GT5 vs. Forza 3 comparison.
 
Why can't people on both sides stop being phallic-shaped erotic toys and just buy both and enjoy both? I promise having a 360 and PS3 in the same room won't make your house burn down or anything. They're inanimate objects. The lengths to which folks go to argue for their perceived "side" is ludicrous and anyone who does so is a corporate sheep buying into either company's marketing hype.

Move on with your lives people!
 
sp0rk
I don't know much about the legal side of this topic (car manufacturers not wanting their cars to be shown fully destroyed). However, if PD have decided to incorporate damage into the game then damnit if I slam into a wall head on doing 220mph I want the car to be absolutely vaporized in some impressive display of destruction, bits flying everywhere and nothing left but a rollcage and flames. I'll be more than glad to have to pay the Cr for a new one.

It's either that or the car remains completely unharmed and bounces off the wall like a rock, that's fine too because at least it wasn't half-assed. What I DON'T want is a bent bumper or broken headlight. Lame. Do something or don't do it, don't sort of do it. This approach makes as much sense to me as making Spa completely flat, no hills or anything. That famous uphill S at the beginning is one of the best parts of the track...sort of doing stuff doesn't work.
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While I do agree I'd rather have overly brutal realism compared to what we've seen, I'll take what I can get.

Polyphony is a virgin at doing damage, so obviously any ideas of perfection should be laid to rest. But even though GT5 might have simplistic damage, it is now a permanent part of the GT series. It can only get better from here.
 
fangorn_forest
Why can't people on both sides stop being phallic-shaped erotic toys and just buy both and enjoy both? I promise having a 360 and PS3 in the same room won't make your house burn down or anything. They're inanimate objects. The lengths to which folks go to argue for their perceived "side" is ludicrous and anyone who does so is a corporate sheep buying into either company's marketing hype.

Move on with your lives people!
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Sense. This person has plenty of it, perhaps he could share (or, am I being honest here) donate some of it.
 
fangorn_forest
Why can't people on both sides stop being phallic-shaped erotic toys and just buy both and enjoy both? I promise having a 360 and PS3 in the same room won't make your house burn down or anything. They're inanimate objects. The lengths to which folks go to argue for their perceived "side" is ludicrous and anyone who does so is a corporate sheep buying into either company's marketing hype.

Move on with your lives people!
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I dont know if you are talking about me with that but i have both consoles and im a fan of both series since their beginings. Im comparing the damage in both games to indicate why im disappointed with the current level of damage in GT5 as i would point out GT´s excellent lighning and colour palette when im talking about the problems that Forza have in that area.

Some of us can compare things without hating the other game or trying demostrate that one of them is perfect and the other is crap.
Some guys here have serious problem with debating the good and bad things about games, all ends in sports team vs sports team mentality were they cant enjoy both.
 
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chepe371
I know! Advanced driving lessons should be MANDATORY for sports car ownership.

Look how he locks up the brakes, he lost a good 2-3 meters sliding, had he braked smoothly he would have bumped into the van at most a scratch and a knick, with driving lessons he would know that less is more.:nervous:
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Well, if you have a look at the sticky about brakes (I think it is) it seems locked brakes are quite effective to stop a car after all but not a very good way to stay in control (of course).
 
The_Paladin
Some of us can compare things without hating the other game or trying demostrate that one of them is perfect and the other is crap.
Some guys here have serious problem with debating the good and bad things about games, all ends in sports team vs sports team mentality were they cant enjoy both.
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I know this isn't directed at me, but I quoted you saying Forzas extreme damage is more accurate, and I provided a video showing how inaccurate the damage model is. Nothing to do with flaming or showing a biased opinion. I know some people get carried away with the 'this game' vs 'that game' topics, but some are very legitimate points.
 
sp0rk
I don't know much about the legal side of this topic (car manufacturers not wanting their cars to be shown fully destroyed). However, if PD have decided to incorporate damage into the game then damnit if I slam into a wall head on doing 220mph I want the car to be absolutely vaporized in some impressive display of destruction, bits flying everywhere and nothing left but a rollcage and flames. I'll be more than glad to have to pay the Cr for a new one.

It's either that or the car remains completely unharmed and bounces off the wall like a rock, that's fine too because at least it wasn't half-assed. What I DON'T want is a bent bumper or broken headlight. Lame. Do something or don't do it, don't sort of do it. This approach makes as much sense to me as making Spa completely flat, no hills or anything. That famous uphill S at the beginning is one of the best parts of the track...sort of doing stuff doesn't work.
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I agree 100% on all of it.

Wouldn't it be great if you totalled you car and you had to buy a new one and you run out of money and have to go to the game's banker to plea for a loan and then you'll have to pay up alot of future price money to get rid of the loan and the percent interest charged is depending on your racingskill much like in iRacing so that if the risk is high that you crash your new car then the interest would be higher and then if you do crash new loaned cars the banker stops giving loans and then you'll have to go to the game's loan sharks that will chase you with drive-by shootings in-race unless you pay up :)

Great idea huh?
 
Personally, I am very impressed with what PD have done in reference to damage. They have given us a REAL-TIME deformation engine. Do any of you realize the significance of that? The fact that they got regular car manufacturers to agree to that at all is incredible. I don't get all of the whining and complaining. PLUS, who knows what kind of adjusting they will do before the game releases, or if the demo even had full damage enabled.
 
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The_Paladin
I dont know if you are talking about me with that but i have both consoles and im a fan of both series since their beginings. Im comparing the damage in both games to indicate why im disappointed with the current level of damage in GT5 as i would point out GT´s excellent lighning and colour palette when im talking about the problems that Forza have in that area.

Some of us can compare things without hating the other game or trying demostrate that one of them is perfect and the other is crap.
Some guys here have serious problem with debating the good and bad things about games, all ends in sports team vs sports team mentality were they cant enjoy both.
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No I wasn't targeting anyone specifically. And I recognize you from FC(I'm THEODRID on there) so I know you're not a fanboy. I just hate that every thread or video or anything about either game degenerates into a debate.

I really need to buy a PS3 before GT5 comes out lol.
 
The_Paladin
I compare it with Forza because that game as lots of brands too and when you are dealing with lots of cars brands you need to do a damage make happy even the most strict brands.
Sure Grid, Dirt, Shift have better damage but they have lot less car brands and also lots of their cars are race cars instead of production vehicles, so i clearly dont expect GT5 having damage up to the level of any of those games and would be unfair to compare it with those, same goes for Forza, thats why we can only compare those 2 games because they are under similar conditions.

Thats why and compared with Forza, the damage we have seen in GT is still lacking even when is suppose to be in real time, theres no paintscratches, they need lots of very hard hits to bend a litte and we have not seen any performance affecting damage.

After watching those videos, do you even think that GT5 at this momment have better damage than that? (at this momment) i dont think is not even close, in Forza the cars looks very punished after a big crash, with quite few parts falling off the car and even if is prerender and sometimes fails in correct hit detection is far better than a car that doesnt show almost any damage after 5 or 6 100 mph crashes.
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You spoke about accuracy, and yes GT with real time damage and correct impact location is more accurate(see the Forza vids), maybe you mean damage sensibility?

Also is just a bit more than 1 minute demo with no damage options, we didn't see rollovers yet, we know that the race cars can be more damaged but not how far(see the Nascar car comments), we know that certain cars can lose bonnets, doors, etc, we know that Forza don't make differences in race cars damage, we don't know which are the GT5 damage options, we don't know how would be the visual representation of the mechanical damage, etc...

Knowing all that I don't understand why someone would want to continue comparing GT5 damage, demo or not, with Forza.
 
Zer0
You spoke about accuracy, and yes GT with real time damage and correct impact location is more accurate(see the Forza vids), maybe you mean damage sensibility?

Also is just a bit more than 1 minute demo with no damage options, we didn't see rollovers yet, we know that the race cars can be more damaged but not how far(see the Nascar car comments), we know that certain cars can lose bonnets, doors, etc, we know that Forza don't make differences in race cars damage, we don't know which are the GT5 damage options, we don't know how would be the visual representation of the mechanical damage, etc...

Knowing all that I don't understand why someone would want to continue comparing GT5 damage, demo or not, with Forza.
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Too true, but I look at it like this

Look at the damage in the "demo" alright it isn't perfect, but at least its on the right track (pardon the pun)..

We have seen the videos with roll overs etc so I don't think they will be "gone" from release... Don't forget these demos are quite old, and i'm sure even now the game is still getting worked on...

What it all boils down to really is... GT has damage (which looks half decent)... happy days.. about time... this is the first GT with damage.. and from what i've seen so far I'm happy...👍
 
I fear that so much energy is being spent in damage, and none in the AI. Damage + poor AI = frustration.

I belive a lot of effort could have been spent in adding more tracks, race rules for each category (DTM, WTCC, LM, FIA GT, etc…), tire response, sounds, rain, and such.

But I guess we'l have to wait until November to see if it pays off (in terms of damage and the results).

IMO, what we've seen thus far is a demo, probably beta version. Maybe we'll get to see the full thing in TGS.

Peace
 
Stradivis
But I guess we'l have to wait until November to see if it pays off (in terms of damage and the results).

IMO, what we've seen thus far is a demo, probably beta version. Maybe we'll get to see the full thing in TGS.
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True, everyone on here has one worry or another (GT related that is)..

Everything anyone has seen up until now is a demo, and a cut down demo at that..

I agree though, it will take until we actually have the game in our systems etc. until we get a genuine feel for the game.. (whether that good or bad)
 
Organ-Donor
I know this isn't directed at me, but I quoted you saying Forzas extreme damage is more accurate, and I provided a video showing how inaccurate the damage model is. Nothing to do with flaming or showing a biased opinion. I know some people get carried away with the 'this game' vs 'that game' topics, but some are very legitimate points.
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What you see in that video is a bug, its the hit detection box failing, thats why both cars are damaged without touching eachother, but again thats a bug and is not frequent, no game is perfect, GT will have bugs too as every other game so why dont we compare about the normal beheavior that happens the 99% of times that we play the game instead of an uncommon bug?

Based on that, yes Forza damage is much better because it shows lot more damage than everything we have seen in GT5 up to this momment.

Zer0
You spoke about accuracy, and yes GT with real time damage and correct impact location is more accurate(see the Forza vids), maybe you mean damage sensibility?

Also is just a bit more than 1 minute demo with no damage options, we didn't see rollovers yet, we know that the race cars can be more damaged but not how far(see the Nascar car comments), we know that certain cars can lose bonnets, doors, etc, we know that Forza don't make differences in race cars damage, we don't know which are the GT5 damage options, we don't know how would be the visual representation of the mechanical damage, etc...

Knowing all that I don't understand why someone would want to continue comparing GT5 damage, demo or not, with Forza.
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Im not comparing 1 minute video vs Forza damage, im comparing everything we have seen in terms of damage in any video, i have seen the Lancer EVO X crashing and flaying, the RX7 getting crashed and the other car rolling over, the nascars crashes, the rally impreza and these videos.
Based in lots of hours of gameplay i think the damage in Forza is overall much more accurate to represent a crash.

Everything i have seen in GT damage to this point is disappointing, thats my personal opinion, we are just a few months away of the release and the game have been in development for about 6 years so i dont expect they do magic in the last 3 months or less (they have to do the testing, copy and distribution).
I hope havent show us all that they have done and the final damage is much better.

fangorn_forest
No I wasn't targeting anyone specifically. And I recognize you from FC(I'm THEODRID on there) so I know you're not a fanboy. I just hate that every thread or video or anything about either game degenerates into a debate.

I really need to buy a PS3 before GT5 comes out lol.
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Ahh hi there! :) , i think Sony is going to release a bundle of PS3+GT5, is not confirmed but very likely.
 
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fangorn_forest
Why can't people on both sides stop being phallic-shaped erotic toys and just buy both and enjoy both? I promise having a 360 and PS3 in the same room won't make your house burn down or anything. They're inanimate objects. The lengths to which folks go to argue for their perceived "side" is ludicrous and anyone who does so is a corporate sheep buying into either company's marketing hype.

Move on with your lives people!
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I once but me ps3 next to my xbox and when I woke up in the mourning the ps3 had killed the xbox hehe:):)
 
The_Paladin
What you see in that video is a bug, its the hit detection box failing, thats why both cars are damaged without touching eachother, but again thats a bug and is not frequent, no game is perfect, GT will have bugs too as every other game so why dont we compare about the normal beheavior that happens the 99% of times that we play the game instead of an uncommon bug?

Based on that, yes Forza damage is much better because it shows lot more damage than everything we have seen in GT5 up to this momment.



Im not comparing 1 minute video vs Forza damage, im comparing everything we have seen in terms of damage in any video, i have seen the Lancer EVO X crashing and flaying, the RX7 getting crashed and the other car rolling over, the nascars crashes, the rally impreza and these videos.
Based in lots of hours of gameplay i think the damage in Forza is overall much more accurate to represent a crash.

Everything i have seen in GT damage to this point is disappointing, thats my personal opinion, we are just a few months away of the release and the game have been in development for about 6 years so i dont expect they do magic in the last 3 months or less (they have to do the testing, copy and distribution).
I hope havent show us all that they have done and the final damage is much better.
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You don't get it do you?

1. Forza damage is NOT accurate. It CANNOT be accurate because it is not based on hit detection rather it's just pre-textured/modeled damage that will appear when the car crashes.

2. Unlike Forza, the damage shown in GT5 is REAL-TIME, that means the game calculates the impact point and intensity (don't know how accurate or precise), and on that basis the car body deforms on that position only.

And as for Forza's damage model, it can only be realistic upto an extent - a few bumps and dents and a whole lot of scratches are NOT the result of a total rollover downhill followed by collisions with two or more cars.

But what everyone should realise damage is not realistic in either game, in fact it won't be for the next upcoming years until the proper hardware and physics are available. The closest we can get to realistic damage are in games like Motorstorm, Flatout (which had engines and teh shat modeled as well) and maybe DiRT and GRiD as well.
 
The_Paladin
we are just a few months away of the release and the game have been in development for about 6 years so i dont expect they do magic in the last 3 months or less
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You never followed a GT development before right? :D

Just a question... why do you think that GT5 demos are so different from the Forza demos? or you expected that kind of demo damage in the final game?

 
Pierced Lead
1. Forza damage is NOT accurate. It CANNOT be accurate because it is not based on hit detection rather it's just pre-textured/modeled damage that will appear when the car crashes.

2. Unlike Forza, the damage shown in GT5 is REAL-TIME, that means the game calculates the impact point and intensity (don't know how accurate or precise), and on that basis the car body deforms on that position only.

And as for Forza's damage model, it can only be realistic upto an extent - a few bumps and dents and a whole lot of scratches are NOT the result of a total rollover downhill followed by collisions with two or more cars.

But what everyone should realise damage is not realistic in either game, in fact it won't be for the next upcoming years until the proper hardware and physics are available. The closest we can get to realistic damage are in games like Motorstorm, Flatout (which had engines and teh shat modeled as well) and maybe DiRT and GRiD as well.
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👍
 
have any of these gameplay videos from E3 and beta etc EVER shown a rollover, or even more importantly, a smashed light? or is it all just LOOSE bumpers and doors? Bumpers dont become dislodged at 100, they end up in tiny pieces, even at 20MPH they crack and break.

This is SO going to fail, Yes the dislodged bumper may be very detailed, but it wont have deformed real time wise
 
Forza3 damage is more or less same as Forza2 and the game itself has lot of glitches, bugs. I think GT5 even in early stage has ok damage. Beta event is pretty old I am sure. This is from last years TGS

 

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