2012 European Grand Prix

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homeforsummer
*Sigh*

a) It was a turn of phrase
b) The points were Hamilton's to lose. He has a known nutter behind him but still felt it necessary to battle him wheel to wheel with two laps to go. Taking Hamilton out was Maldonado's fault, but a well-rounded racing driver will understand that "some" points are better than "no" points. Hamilton didn't really demonstrate that common sense.

Alonso lost places hand over fist in the last few laps of Canada, but he didn't over-defend and end up with nothing.
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So basicly its Hamiltons fault he didnt score points because someone gave a known nutter a F1 racing license? you still dont make any sence IMO
 
homeforsummer
*Sigh*

Taking Hamilton out was Maldonado's fault, but a well-rounded racing driver will understand that "some" points are better than "no" points. Hamilton didn't really demonstrate that common sense.
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*Sigh*

Works both ways really.. "most" points could be better than "some" points come the end of the season, driver could fancy his chances of defending for 1 more lap to gain maximum points possible, seems just as common sense.
 
Sory Biffy cant agree with u. Both drivers are at fault but lewis pulled another one again pushing him out of the track went Maldonado was already side by side and the folowing corner was going to be tricky again but Maldonado was going to have the preference and after that a long straight away but no he didnt leave him no space again. He deserved what he got.
 
FranciscoJR
Sory Biffy cant agree with u. Both drivers are at fault but lewis pulled another one again pushing him out of the track went Maldonado was already side by side and the folowing corner was going to be tricky again but Maldonado was going to have the preference and after that a long straight away but no he didnt leave him no space again. He deserved what he got.
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Lewis had the inside line means anything to you?
 
FranciscoJR
Sory Biffy cant agree with u. Both drivers are at fault but lewis pulled another one again pushing him out of the track went Maldonado was already side by side and the folowing corner was going to be tricky again but Maldonado was going to have the preference and after that a long straight away but no he didnt leave him no space again. He deserved what he got.
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I really don't think you have much of an argument at all. :lol:
 
Seeing Massa being overtaken by Petrov was just plain sad.

Fantastic race overall. Of course Alonso was a bit lucky to win it but even without the mechanical failures from Vettel and Grosjean he would almost certainly have scored a podium finish from eleventh on the grid. He's just a proper racer.
 
F1 fan
Perhaps aggressive was the wrong word to use, however, defending a position he was inevitably going to lose was not smart. It goes back to what I say about choosing your battles.
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Maldonado should have chose a better place to attempt a pass. The attempt after the DRS didn't work, he went off track. You just cannot come flying back onto the track, knowing full well there is a car there.

Hamilton, wasn't weaving and I am pretty sure that if Maldanodo made a clean move that had a chance of being successful he would have conceded.
 
saidur_ali
He was pulling away from Kimi only a few moments earlier, until a big lockup and subsequent mistake. Hamilton was not taking it easy after and further compounded his problem by then putting more energy into tyre trying to stay ahead of Kimi for a few corners and then Maldonado got in DRS zone as well. If Maldonado slotted in behind Hamilton where they crashed, Hamilton would have had breathing space and the chance to start putting less energy into the tyre due to not having the need to push as hard to stay ahead. The overheating would not be enough to stop Lewis for a lap and bit to achieve the podium if he got out of the DRS zone from Maldonado.
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Man, his tyres were finished, this is why he was making the 'mistakes'. They admitted had Maldonado got past cleanly, they don't even know if they would have held on to 4th after that. You can look reasonably competitive immediately before your tyres hit the cliff, like Kimi at China, Alonso at Canada etc.

I can't say any more than this, but I don't really know where you're getting this from that Hamilton's tyres could have come back to him, as if he just overheated them a little and that's all - it was far more critical than that, evidently more so.
 
FranciscoJR
Sory Biffy cant agree with u. Both drivers are at fault but lewis pulled another one again pushing him out of the track went Maldonado was already side by side and the folowing corner was going to be tricky again but Maldonado was going to have the preference and after that a long straight away but no he didnt leave him no space again. He deserved what he got.
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Not sure what your understanding of the rules are but you're totally off the mark, especially when you see that the general consensus of this thread is that the move was Maldonado's fault. Hamilton kept his line, he didn't "push him out of the track", maybe not give a lot of room but he was completely within the rules to do that. It IS against the rules to come back on track unsafely or in a way that affects another driver. Maldonado's re-entry onto the track was quite frankly idiotic.
 
tribolik
So basicly its Hamiltons fault he didnt score points because someone gave a known nutter a F1 racing license? you still dont make any sence IMO
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No.

I'm saying that any F1 driver with two braincells to rub together will know when to defend and when to settle for points.

At 1ness
*Sigh*

Works both ways really.. "most" points could be better than "some" points come the end of the season, driver could fancy his chances of defending for 1 more lap to gain maximum points possible, seems just as common sense.
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And what was the ultimate result?

That's right, Hamilton retired. It's utterly, utterly irrelevant what points Hamilton could have scored had he managed to hold off Maldonado, because in the end he scored a big, fat, zero, because he didn't have the common sense to know that discretion can be the better part of valor.

Conceding a position doesn't make someone any less of a racing driver - hundreds of winning drivers have done it at some point - but not conceding can lose you a championship, should you be in that position by the end of a race.

If Hamilton is in that position at the end of the year, how much of a cretin will he look for not biting the bullet and making it a bit easier for Maldonado?
 
dhandes
Maldonado should have chose a better place to attempt a pass. The attempt after the DRS didn't work, he went off track. You just cannot come flying back onto the track, knowing full well there is a car there.

Hamilton, wasn't weaving and I am pretty sure that if Maldanodo made a clean move that had a chance of being successful he would have conceded.
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Maldonado left the track and failed to wait until the track was clear before regaining it. Minimum one race ban. 👎
 
FranciscoJR
Sory Biffy cant agree with u. Both drivers are at fault but lewis pulled another one again pushing him out of the track went Maldonado was already side by side and the folowing corner was going to be tricky again but Maldonado was going to have the preference and after that a long straight away but no he didnt leave him no space again. He deserved what he got.
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http://[domain blocked due to malware]/instances/400x/19228507.jpg
 
Here in the US Fox has the race scheduled for 12:00. 4 hours after the race starts!!! Now I have accidentally found out who won the race and am pissed off. I used to hate fox for the excessive commercials throughout the race, but now I can't take them anymore!

My little rant over, but for good measures, #%^* you Fox!
 
tribolik
So basicly its Hamiltons fault he didnt score points because someone gave a known nutter a F1 racing license? you still dont make any sence IMO
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At 1ness
*Sigh*

Works both ways really.. "most" points could be better than "some" points come the end of the season, driver could fancy his chances of defending for 1 more lap to gain maximum points possible, seems just as common sense.
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The whole point is that it was impossible for him to hang onto 3rd place anyway, so why defend? Beyond some romantic sentiment about 'never giving up', there is no argument to be made.
 
Shaggy Alonso
Man, his tyres were finished, this is why he was making the 'mistakes'. They admitted had Maldonado got past cleanly, they don't even know if they would have held on to 4th after that. You can look reasonably competitive immediately before your tyres hit the cliff, like Kimi at China, Alonso at Canada etc.

I can't say any more than this, but I don't really know where you're getting this from that Hamilton's tyres could have come back to him, as if he just overheated them a little and that's all - it was far more critical than that, evidently more so.
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His mistakes happened when he was ahead of Kimi. This made his tyres overheat. He didn't really make a mistake afterwards, just dealing with the consequences of them which is being put on the backfoot. He still had the performance to brake quite late, DRS helped Maldonado get close, I'm confident Hamilton would have been able to manage the gap if Maldonado lost enough time going back on track but he crashed so we might never know but I would have been surprised if Lewis would not be able to hold on as Lewis would no longer have to be as ragged.
 
homeforsummer
No.

I'm saying that any F1 driver with two braincells to rub together will know when to defend and when to settle for points.
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The common sence is to defend well if you are ahead especialy in the last lap and to try to overtake well when you are behind... Lewis defended well, Maldonado didnt overtake well... one is fighting for the championship the other is just fighting period... one shows a bit more common sence than the other IMO.

Shaggy Alonso
The whole point is that it was impossible for him to hang onto 3rd place anyway, so why defend? Beyond some romantic sentiment about 'never giving up', there is no argument to be made.
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Thats something we will never know... will we? thanks to Maldonado... but you are right about one thing there is no argument to be made it was Maldonado that cause the incident and should get a penalty... he had all 4 wheels off the track and another car inside the track that he decided to run into....
 
tribolik
The common sence is to defend well if you are ahead especialy in the last lap and to try to overtake well when you are behind... Lewis defended well, Maldonado didnt overtake well... one is fighting for the championship the other is just fighting period... one shows a bit more common sence than the other IMO.
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Don't get me wrong - Maldonado is ultimately the idiot here, but that doesn't mean that Lewis shouldn't know that it's better to settle for some points than risk getting nothing.

That "fight for the championship" is ultimately irrelevant if he can't score any points.
 
tribolik
The common sence is to defend well if you are ahead especialy in the last lap and to try to overtake well when you are behind... Lewis defended well, Maldonado didnt overtake well... one is fighting for the championship the other is just fighting period... one shows a bit more common sence than the other IMO.
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Indeed, if someone is intent on spearing your car from off the track, that isn't a lot you can do, apart from pull over and park.
 
dhandes
Maldonado should have chose a better place to attempt a pass. The attempt after the DRS didn't work, he went off track. You just cannot come flying back onto the track, knowing full well there is a car there.

Hamilton, wasn't weaving and I am pretty sure that if Maldanodo made a clean move that had a chance of being successful he would have conceded.
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If you look back at my posts, you will see that I have not used one single word to defend Maldonado, but as others have said (HFS has said brilliantly), Hamilton decided to fight the losing fight and it cost him big time. Don't make assumptions.

At 1ness
No.

Maldonado showed a complete lack of sense and general spacial awareness for ending Hamiltons race..
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Again, I have not uttered a single word in Maldonado's defense. And interestingly, even some Lewis fans on here agree with me.
 
Racing rules. My friend racing is racing and that was a dirty move from Hamilton. Maldonado raced him hard to get the position he did nothing wrong. This is racing at its best. Senna and Prost that was racing hard at the limits. Now playing dirty tryng to defend your position is just wrong. Like i said it before, he deserved it.
 
homeforsummer
If Hamilton is in that position at the end of the year, how much of a cretin will he look for not biting the bullet and making it a bit easier for Maldonado?
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Again.. works both ways.

If Hamilton is in a position at the end of the year, that the points he ended up getting for 4th instead of 3rd, loses him the championship, how much of a cretin will he look for not holding the guy off for 1 more lap?
 
saidur_ali
His mistakes happened when he was ahead of Kimi. This made his tyres overheat. He didn't really make a mistake afterwards, just dealing with the consequences of them which is being put on the backfoot. He still had the performance to brake quite late, DRS helped Maldonado get close, I'm confident Hamilton would have been able to manage the gap if Maldonado lost enough time going back on track but he crashed so we might never know but I would have been surprised if Lewis would not be able to hold on as Lewis would no longer have to be as ragged.
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Dude, those weren't just a few out of shape moments defending, that was a complete loss of traction and grip. His penultimate lap was a full 5.3s slower than his fastest, and 3 seconds slower than Maldonado on the same lap. That is not recoverable, that is the cliff.

http://mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page=chart&gp=871&graf=3&dr1=Lewis Hamilton&dr2=Pastor Maldonado
 

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