2012 European Grand Prix

[HKS racer]

4 seconds? Maldonado was 4 seconds behind Raikonnen with 7 laps to go. Hamilton had given him enough room before the apex (1 car width), he then took the corner as usual and the position that Maldonado was in at that point meant that he either had slow down and cut in (like erm, nearly every driver had done in this race when a similar move was taken) or continue 4 wheels off track and punt Hamilton.

Think what you want. I already explained, Lewis should focus on Championship not the single race, today the result is Lewis with 0 points.

Maldonando is not running for the Champ, he has nothing to loose and he don't give a crap if Lewis try to "close the door".

You'll be lucky another day another battle.

 

[Adam41]

I've already covered all these points, and I agree the incident is Maldonado's fault, but that's a given when it comes to that particular idiot.

However, if you think Hamilton could have hung on for another lap then you live in Narnia.

And what kind of modern Formula 1 driver stops defending when their tyres are shot? Schumi earlier on in this race when he hadn't pitted, Kimi in China? Nope. So why should Hamilton have stopped defending, because Maldonado's an idiot?

 

[Seismica]

Wrong. Hamilton had the racing line, which he was entitled to hang on to, stuffed tyres or no.

I didn't say anything about the tyres. I'm just saying the fault does not lay solely with Maldonado when he was forced off the track with no room to return to the track. Hamilton would have had the inside line for the next corner, all he had to do was give Maldonado a car width.

Maldonado didn't account for the kerb, which was what caused the collision as Maldonado couldn't steer his car into the corner.

You also have to consider the fact that Hamilton blocked aggressively at the beginning of the straight after he made a mistake, which forced Maldonado to lift.

Earlier in the race Hamilton gave Grosjean enough room in the same place, and the same situation. He should have known that Maldonado would be a lot less forgiving.

But like I said, I think both drivers were at fault. But I agree, in the eyes of the rules I believe Maldonado was more at fault and a grid penalty for him would be fair. It still doesn't change the fact that Hamilton effectively ended his own race with his aggressive defending.

 

[homeforsummer]

What a fab race.

Alonso - Brilliant. Reckon he deserves the title this year.
Kimi - Iceman keeps cool in the heat. Solid drive, kept out of trouble.
Schumacher - Good to see back on the podium.
Vettel - Dominant, but unlucky. Without the schadenfreude, it's good to see he's not immune to bad luck like he was last year.
Hamilton - Typical McLaren cock-up in the pits (where do they get their pit equipment, the same place as Wile E. Coyote?) and then a bit dim defending an inevitable position loss so hard. Within his rights, but pretty stupid.
Maldonado - Equally cretinous. Entirely his fault, but the dimwit still tried to blame Hamilton.
Grosjean - So unlucky

Great to see an interesting Valencia though. Clearly F1 didn't get the memo that it has to be a dull race.

Quick "WTF?" to race control who allowed marshals to be clearing a car from a dangerous point on the circuit under waved green flags. What moron thought that was a safe thing to do?

 

[neljack]

If we use Hamilton letting Maldonado through because his tyres were shot logic Schumacher should have let about 10 cars through at once.

 

[ZEROX]

Patience is the word for both of the drivers.
But of course by that last laps, no racing driver would give up for the third spot!

 

[DaxCobra]

If we use Hamilton letting Maldonado through because his tyres were shot logic Schumacher should have let about 10 cars through at once.

Exactly.

Also, this is pretty interesting. RB8 still illegal?

 

[hornet_burnout]

I didn't say anything about the tyres. I'm just saying the fault does not lay solely with Maldonado when he was forced off the track with no room to return to the track. Hamilton would have had the inside line for the next corner, all he had to do was give Maldonado a car width.

Maldonado didn't account for the kerb, which was what caused the collision as Maldonado couldn't steer his car into the corner.

You also have to consider the fact that Hamilton blocked aggressively at the beginning of the straight after he made a mistake, which forced Maldonado to lift.

Earlier in the race Hamilton gave Grosjean enough room in the same place, and the same situation. He should have known that Maldonado would be a lot less forgiving.

Hamilton didn't give Grosjean anything. He took it. Planted his car where Hamilton couldn't push him without crashing. Pastor couldn't get into that same position and ended off track, then came back straight at Lewis.

 

[Shaggy Alonso]

Hamilton would have had to slow down to a stop and let Maldonado through to avoid the way Maldonado went on to track.


Maldonado would have been out the DRS zone, Hamilton would have regained composure, I would have been surprised if Hamilton never held on.

Are you serious Ali? It wasn't composure Hamilton was missing most but rear grip - he hit the cliff. It was completely obvious Maldonado was coming through no matter what. As I say, i'm parking the blame of the incident to one side - the Bond villain Maldonado was typically the only one at fault, but from a championship perspective, Hamilton should have factored this in and not raced so hard, even as early as turn 1 the previous lap where they both also almost had a high speed collision, again because Maldonado is such an impetuous twerp.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

And what kind of modern Formula 1 driver stops defending when their tyres are shot? Schumi earlier on in this race when he hadn't pitted, Kimi in China? Nope. So why should Hamilton have stopped defending, because Maldonado's an idiot?

His tyres weren't finished from what I saw (Might be wrong), a couple of errors made him on the back foot and other drivers the chance to attack with the DRS. He was close to having second wrapped up (Pulling away from Kimi) before locking his brakes in the final corner and then making another mistake afterwards which allowed Kimi to close up and overtake.

Are you serious Ali? It wasn't composure Hamilton was missing most but rear grip - he hit the cliff. It was completely obvious Maldonado was coming through no matter what. As I say, i'm parking the blame of the incident to one side - the Bond villain Maldonado was typically the only one at fault, but from a championship perspective, Hamilton should have factored this in and not raced so hard, even as early as turn 1 the previous lap where they both also almost had a high speed collision, again because Maldonado is such an impetuous twerp.

I was watching Kimi's onboard and Lewis was pulling away until he made the two mistakes which would have overheated his tyres temporarily. That made Kimi pass Lewis and Maldonado was in the DRS zone which further compounded Lewis problem. It is so close that one mistake can cost you quite a bit. If Maldonado complied, he would have dropped back off Lewis due to slowly getting back on track and Lewis getting ahead by taking corner at normal speed.

 

[DaxCobra]

Eddie Jordan believes Hamiltons dodgey pitstop cost him the win.

If he didn't have a bad pit stop, he'd have come out ahead of Alonso, would have been able to conserve his tyres and would have been out of the way of Alonso.

They need to sort it out.

 

[Shaggy Alonso]

And what kind of modern Formula 1 driver stops defending when their tyres are shot? Schumi earlier on in this race when he hadn't pitted, Kimi in China? Nope. So why should Hamilton have stopped defending, because Maldonado's an idiot?

Mate, it's really simple; had Hamilton let Maldonado go, he might have finished 4th. He didn't, the virtually inevitable happened and he's scored zero points, lost 25 to Alonso and failed to gain 12 on Vettel.

 

[Watchman]

[...]

Quick "WTF?" to race control who allowed marshals to be clearing a car from a dangerous point on the circuit under waved green flags. What moron thought that was a safe thing to do?

They always emphasize the safety, but do this. Incomprehensible indeed.

 

[HKS racer]

If we use Hamilton letting Maldonado through because his tyres were shot logic Schumacher should have let about 10 cars through at once.

Again Schumacher is not running for the champ he take his risks and he also had a good reason, a different strategy.

You people should try to understand the difference between a Championship contender and a "crazy dog". People like Maldonado, Gorsjean, Kobayashi don't give a damn if they kick you off the race, they say "your problem".

 

[Seismica]

Hamilton didn't give Grosjean anything. He took it. Planted his car where Hamilton couldn't push him without crashing. Pastor couldn't get into that same position and ended off track, then came back straight at Lewis.

Nope, in the Maldonado incident Hamilton went wide on the exit, pushing Maldonado off the track. In the Grosjean incident he left a car width which meant he was on the outside of the next corner. The incidents were the same, the only difference was the actions of Hamilton. The aggressive defending resulted in a crash whilst the fair defending didn't.

Still, there is no provision in the rules to leave a car width on the corner exit, so Hamilton can't be held at fault by the stewards (Assuming the incident is investigated).

I also re-iterate how Maldonado was forced to lift on the preceding straight because Hamilton blocked him (IIRC it was just at the DRS zone too).

 

[homeforsummer]

Mate, it's really simple; had Hamilton let Maldonado go, he might have finished 4th. He didn't, the virtually inevitable happened and he's scored zero points, lost 25 to Alonso and failed to gain 12 on Vettel.

^ This.

Hamilton isn't obliged to let anybody past, but there's an element of common sense about it.

The incident was Maldonado's fault. Not scoring any points was Hamilton's fault.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Anyone who thinks Hamilton should not have defended his (podium) position, on what was very nearly the last lap of the race, should think before posting.

This is a racing driver not a sunday driver.

 

[Lizard]

If Hamilton let people passed in simmilar situations I bet he would still be without a championship

 

[Seismica]

^ This.

Hamilton isn't obliged to let anybody past, but there's an element of common sense about it.

The incident was Maldonado's fault. Not scoring any points was Hamilton's fault.

Nailed it.

 

[DaxCobra]

^ This.

Hamilton isn't obliged to let anybody past, but there's an element of common sense about it.

The incident was Maldonado's fault. Not scoring any points was Hamilton's fault.

Well said, actually.

Anyone who thinks Hamilton should not have defended his (podium) position, on what was very nearly the last lap of the race, should think before posting.

This is a racing driver not a sunday driver.

Also well said.

I just don't know, all I know is Maldonado really deserves a penalty.

 

[HKS racer]

Hamilton isn't obliged to let anybody past, but there's an element of common sense about it.

The incident was Maldonado's fault. Not scoring any points was Hamilton's fault.

Enough said in this post. Couldn't agree more.

 

[Shaggy Alonso]

Hamilton just now:

Interviewer: "Did you have sufficient grip to hold on?"

"No my tyres were gone, I don't know where I would have finished....the last lap my tyres just went, it almost felt like I had flat tyres"

Then he follows it up with the assertion that you always have to fight for position. Keeps the purists happy I guess, but harms his championship challenge severely.

 

[hornet_burnout]

Nope, in the Maldonado incident Hamilton went wide on the exit, pushing Maldonado off the track. In the Grosjean incident he left a car width which meant he was on the outside of the next corner. The incidents were the same, the only difference was the actions of Hamilton. The aggressive defending resulted in a crash whilst the fair defending didn't.

Still, there is no provision in the rules to leave a car width on the corner exit, so Hamilton can't be held at fault by the stewards (Assuming the incident is investigated).

You may be right, and Hamilton's actions may have been "involuntary", cause by not enough grip. But from Grosjean and Pastor cam replays I can see Romain was in a much better position to make it stick. Was there a Hamilton cam replay?

 

[F1 fan]

Nothing is inevitable in motor racing. For all Lewis knew, Maldon'tseemtobabletoovertakecleanlydo might've binned it (into a regular barrier, not a silver and red mobile one) at the next corner.

When you have a championship to think about and your tires have hit the cliff, what's the use of defending a position from a much faster car driven by a very erratic driver? Hamilton was clearly struggling for grip coming out of the corners, it was only a matter of time before Pastor overtook him. And your suggestion that Pastor might have binned it into a barrier is completely inconsequential, because if that did happen, then Hamilton would have reclaimed the position.

In short, Hamilton defended hard, but within the limits. Had he been a bit less defensive, then he would have been fourth. I am aware that he has no obligation to let anyone through, but had he been wise enough to know that it was only a matter of time, he would have finished the race in a good position. Which goes back to what I said about picking your battles wisely.

I'd also like to bring up what someone else said about Lewis' engineer. It seems that all he does is constantly reassure Hamilton by saying "Great job". Perhaps he should cuddle Lewis a little less and actually give him some proper advice.

Hamilton had pace, he was pulling away from Räikkönen then locked his brakes in the last corner and then made a mistake which compounded his problems further with Maldonado catching up.

Hamilton didn't have pace. And he was struggling for grip everywhere. Wake up from dreamland.

 

[Adam41]

Mate, it's really simple; had Hamilton let Maldonado go, he might have finished 4th. He didn't, the virtually inevitable happened and he's scored zero points, lost 25 to Alonso and failed to gain 12 on Vettel.

Oh yeah absolutely.

What I'm saying is, he could have hung on for another lap if he was against a clean, rational driver and possibly took a podium. Every driver should be able to race without knowing that the driver behind is going to him them off the track, in this case Maldonado. Maldonado should be penalised heavily imo and punished for his driving and he might not be penalised if Hamilton had simply let him go. What Maldonado says in his interviews like Mike pointed out earlier doesn't help either.

Right I'm off for a beer...

 

[ZEROX]

Anyone who thinks Hamilton should not have defended his (podium) position, on what was very nearly the last lap of the race, should think before posting.

This is a racing driver not a sunday driver.

He should but at the same time, he need to think about the cost of losing it not just gaining.

 

[homeforsummer]

Anyone who thinks Hamilton should not have defended his (podium) position, on what was very nearly the last lap of the race, should think before posting.

This is a racing driver not a sunday driver.

Not sure if you caught my post above yours before you posted, but I feel I should clarify:

Lewis is absolutely not obliged to let anyone past - we saw that with Schumacher earlier in the race. However, there's a point - located somewhere with two laps to go, I reckon - that you stop defending quite so hard if you think you're putting some hard-earned points at risk.

Regardless of whose fault the incident was - and it was definitely Maldonado's fault, since he came from off the circuit to hit Lewis like a big idiot - they were Hamilton's points to lose with a loose cannon like Maldonado behind him. A bit of discretion on Hamilton's part would have seen him lose the position but keep some points.

Incidentally, wins aside, Alonso's consistency is why he's sitting at the top of the table at the moment, even though he's had some average races. He's not defended where he's not been able to defend.

 

[Shaggy Alonso]

If this logic had been applied in 2008 then Masa could have won the championship.

Well actually, in 2008 Hamilton threw away a hatful of points in racing incidents at Bahrain and Canada which were his fault. Had he applied a bit more common sense (which hitherto this year he has done nicely) he would have won the championship at a canter, rather than taking it to the wire.

 

[Seismica]

You may be right, and Hamilton's actions may have been "involuntary", cause by not enough grip. But from Grosjean and Pastor cam replays I can see Romain was in a much better position to make it stick. Was there a Hamilton cam replay?

His actions weren't involuntary, he was just defending more aggressively because he learnt from his mistake when Grosjean got past. But the irony is, the aggressive defending was the mistake. Maldonado was squeezed and couldn't turn in, which is why he was in a worse position by the middle of the first turn than Grosjean. In the braking zone though, they were both neck and neck.

Maldonado will most likely be penalised though, because Hamilton's actions were well within the rules.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Hamilton just now:

Interviewer: "Did you have sufficient grip to hold on?"

"No my tyres were gone, I don't know where I would have finished....the last lap my tyres just went, it almost felt like I had flat tyres"

Then he follows it up with the assertion that you always have to fight for position. Keeps the purists happy I guess, but harms his championship challenge severely.

It will interesting to see if further analaysis of tyre is done, if it was due to temperature, not wear. He was going along well until the big lockup in the final corner and then he made a mistake after that due to probably overheating from that and getting out of the operating window. That is why his tyres might have went after being good enough to pull away from Kimi and be comfortable less than a few seconds earlier. If it was the cliff then he would have been in trouble to defend but looked thermal to me, a quick period of overheating the tyre and then trying to defend with that and others in DRS zone.