◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Currently Recruiting for GT7 - JOIN TODAY!!Open 

  • Thread starter zer05ive
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I was relegated to D2 after a night where I was disconnected. I had run 2nd, 3rd, and was running 2nd chasing down the leader when I got dropped.

When someone gets relegated because of a lost connection, we're not always relegating the driver that was the slowest that week. This leads to drivers, who based on their skill level, are in the wrong division. If the divisions are all about getting drivers with similar skill levels together then that should be the priority. I would be willing to bet right now that drivers are relegated more often for other reasons (division leveling, dropped connection, no-show) than they are for skill level.
 
Exactly Bowler.

Now I'm not sure how Naruto got relegated to Div2, but I see on the drivers list here that he was almost sent to Div3?! That just doesn't make any sense. Maybe we can come up with some other way to penalize no-shows besides relegation. For instance, if you no-show too many times, you stay in your same Division, but move to a reserve list. If there's room for you on race night, it's all good, but if the room is full with non-reserve drivers, you sit out.
 
That sounds good to me. With "full" being 12 drivers (except maybe in Div. 3)

The problem is that you would then either not relegate or you would promote two for the next week to put 13 in a division. That might get ugly after a while.

And yeah, Rally. We should get the points for last place if we got dropped during the race. You put mine down but I don't think you gave Spooble any for starting and dropping. I fixed that. It gave him 2nd overall.
 
dylansan
I had had the same problem for the last few weeks. If you would like any tips on improving your connection I might be able to help. I changed about a million things and it's quite possible only one of them will fix the issues you had tonight.

Though I suppose I shouldn't be too quick to assume all my problems are gone. I may have the same issues next week, but I'm glad to have at least had one week of racing.
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It's a problem with time warner, happens very sparsely I was just unfortunate to have it happen during the race. My router has been doing strange things recently too even though I have the ps3 in a DMZ. Oh well, it happens. My serious league is F1 and I do this one just for fun. If it happened during my F1 race which took me weeks to prepare for you'd probably be reading about me and homicide in the news. :) Not worried about it though, had a lot of fun!
 
spooble
I think most would agree that Ap and I are in the upper 1/3 of Div2 as far as speed and consistency are concerned. And for either of us to be in danger of relegation due to connection issues just doesn't seem right.
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Regardless of where you finished, the fact that there were four no-shows in D2 means that there's absolutely no chance that you will be relegated. If everyone showed up and you still finished at the bottom due to a connection issue, I would compare it to a situation in real life racing where a driver is let down by a poor pit stop or a flat tire. The fastest drivers don't always win, which is why we show up to race in the first place! I understand your concern, but when we start basing Promotion and Relegation on anything other than results, it opens up a big can of worms IMO.

spooble
I've been lucky in the past as far as connection problems go (knock on wood), so this is really the first time I've thought about it. I don't know what the solution is, but I just wanted to open up some dialogue about it. In a poker league that I'm a part of, we determine rank by averaging points per tournament. That way you aren't penalized when you miss tourneys.
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Nobody is ever penalized for missing a Sunday night, they're just penalized based on how much more difficult they make it for us to evenly distribute drivers into our three divisions. It takes a lot of time and effort to organize and update the Driver List. I know for a fact that kcheeb devotes hours of time each week to do this, so I feel the least we can ask drivers to do is extend the courtesy of a quick heads up. Of course, real life is full of surprises, which make 24-hours notification impossible sometimes. That's why we separate the drivers who don't race into tiers based on they type of notification (if any) they provide). A good example of this is leadbedr this week. He no-showed, but later on told us what caused it. The courtesy of that explanation alone has vaulted him above the other no-shows and will prevent him from getting relegated.

spooble
Now I'm not sure how Naruto got relegated to Div2, but I see on the drivers list here that he was almost sent to Div3?! That just doesn't make any sense. Maybe we can come up with some other way to penalize no-shows besides relegation. For instance, if you no-show too many times, you stay in your same Division, but move to a reserve list. If there's room for you on race night, it's all good, but if the room is full with non-reserve drivers, you sit out.
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If you want to know why Naruto got relegated, click here. I personally think no-showing is the worst thing you can do off the track as a member of our league. No-shows make running the league difficult and frustrating. Even when drivers know they are going to get relegated, they no-show anyways. I feel like if we make no-showing less penalized, it will only increase the number of no-shows that occur. If we implement a complex system that allows multiple no-shows before relegation takes place, who is going to manage and track that for us?
 
While it may be more complicated, I think that the risk of having to sit out for not showing is worse than being relegated but free to race.
 
Apmaddock
While it may be more complicated, I think that the risk of having to sit out for not showing is worse than being relegated but free to race.
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If we do it that way, what we'll end up with is people who don't come back at all. Maybe that's not a bad thing, I don't know for sure. Every online league I've been a part of has had to deal with no shows. People read the thread, think it's a good idea, sign up and disappear into the sunset or they show up, find out they're not as fast as they thought, or it's not the type of racing they want. Hundreds of reasons why.

That's a big reason I started sending out race reminders, it's helped to a degree but is not a panacea (reading the dictionary again) as evidenced by yesterdays no show list.

We seem to be talking a lot about penalizing lately, carry a big stick and people will comply. What about making it attractive for them to race with us? I'm starting to think the rule book is getting too thick ...
 
I don't think relegation is enough of a punishment for no-shows. Or at least, it is not so much of a negative consequence for people.

Making people sit out may cause people not to return, but that can't be helped. If they don't want to race, they won't race. If they do, that punishment will keep them racing when they can. So I think sitting out is a perfectly valid punishment for no-shows, as it separates the people who want to drive from those who don't (and the ones who don't, don't get to).
 
Voting was close enough we really need to wait on the stewards, looks like.

Were there many inquiries yet?

What is on the docket tonight, Rally?
 
As of now there have been no complaints made in any division (that I'm aware of). About 8 hours left, though.
 
What about an ongoing ranking for all SNAIL drivers using an average points earned per race entered to determine promotion and relegation each week. This would make the divisions based on long term performance and may better match drivers of similar skill together on a more consistant basis. We have a few weeks of data on the perfect 100 system. If anyone is curious, I could probably knock out the numbers in a short amount of time.

I have no idea what to do about people who no-show without notice. My gut tells me that the possibility of not racing the next week could be good, but then you might get people not coming back at all after they miss once.
 
Apmaddock
And yeah, Rally. We should get the points for last place if we got dropped during the race. You put mine down but I don't think you gave Spooble any for starting and dropping. I fixed that. It gave him 2nd overall.
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Ok, I thought so, I actually did do spooble for the 4th race. IDK what happened to it. Also, it didn't keep skills' combo vote either. Maybe closed or refreshed before the doc saved. Something.

Handlebar
What is on the docket tonight, Rally?
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Well, honestly, I started a new job today, so I'm pretty beat, and I got barely a puff of interest in what I had planned on running. So, i think instead of pouring a bunch of energy into my planned event, I may just host some shuffle racing and maybe do some cat and mouse later in the night if enough people join in.
 
I like the idea of using something like "average finishing position in completed races" for the last 12 races... This is kind of riffing off of a golf handicap. 💡

As pleased as I am with dylansan being able to get a firm connection, I would wonder about what issues could arise if we promoted many racers with poor connections. I guess I am a little on both sides of the fence.
 
Handlebar
I like the idea of using something like "average finishing position in completed races" for the last 12 races... This is kind of riffing off of a golf handicap. 💡
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This reminds me of Enthusia's "best 9 out of 12" method of determining rank, which could be interesting. However I don't think that's necessarily a better method than others and wouldn't recommend it.

I like your idea, though it might penalize those who have connection issues as several of us have had. Any sort of relegation system should discount any points lost to disconnects as they do not represent the skill of the driver. On second thought Enthusia's system may be exactly the right method! :lol:

Oh well, this would certainly take more thought, if a new system is even necessary, which I'm not convinced is true.
 
hey imtomtomim told about this league after some very clean competitive racing last night. sounds like a fun league and i'd like in.
 
I'll be joining you rally but hopefully we can do some cat and mouse at some point.

I'm assuming this shuffle racing is clean though?
 
Rally, I might drop in for a few after I mow the yard and jump in the pool. I assume you will be running til midnight eastern.
 
Sorry Cheeb, the wife had other ideas for me today. The honey do list was getting a little long so I had to knock some item off of it. The yard is the last thing on the list. I will work on the tunes tonight too.
 
JLBowler
Sorry Cheeb, the wife had other ideas for me today. The honey do list was getting a little long so I had to knock some item off of it. The yard is the last thing on the list. I will work on the tunes tonight too.
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No worries bowler, I just saw an opening. Go drive with Rally and the gang, plenty of time for tunes :)
 
patches0127
hey imtomtomim told about this league after some very clean competitive racing last night. sounds like a fun league and i'd like in.
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Hey patches0127,

Thanks for looking us up and listening to imtomtomim :) He's right 👍

We run a clean league by enforcing the GTP OLR and we highly encourage all of our drivers to know and follow The Good Racecraft Guide. Please become familiar with both.

I'll add you to the drivers list, you'll be starting in Division 3. If you can't make it on a Sunday, please be sure to give us at least 24 hours notice by posting in this forum, it makes things much simpler for us, thanks.

PSN friend requests will be sent to you from SNAIL_Division1, SNAIL_Division2 and SNAIL_Division3. Their lounges are where we race Sunday night and hold our various events. Here's a breakdown of the ways we use the lounges.

During the week we run a number of different events feel free to jump in and partake!

The original post also has a lot of information regarding the league, commit it to memory ;)

Welcome aboard and enjoy :)
 
There have been no complaints reported in Division 1 this week (and none that I know of for any other division). Therefore, the results are official (except where noted).

Go ahead and pick your prizes, Divison 1, and congratulations. I suppose you should wait upon zer0's official word to name your car and track selections, though, as he'll make official the combos that need to be replaced.

Thanks, everyone, and thanks especially for racing clean this week!
 
Thanks, did some circle track with rally,dylansan and Tom. Good communication! I made myself familiar with "rules" before posting. Not new to GT5, but this is my first league. I like the points system but truth be told I'm looking for fun not first. Anxious to get out there and run....
 
Apmaddock
There have been no complaints reported in Division 1 this week (and none that I know of for any other division). Therefore, the results are official (except where noted).

Go ahead and pick your prizes, Divison 1, and congratulations. I suppose you should wait upon zer0's official word to name your car and track selections, though, as he'll make official the combos that need to be replaced.

Thanks, everyone, and thanks especially for racing clean this week!
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Ap, thanks for giving the "all clear" on racing complaints. I've also corrected the D2 standings based on the previous discussion regarding spooble's points.

SNAILs, I've updated the results post to include the results of the elimination vote as well. It was an incredibly close vote between the three rounds! 8 votes, 7 votes, and 6 votes! Let this be proof to everyone that every vote counts! Please don't ever think that submitting a vote is not important!

D1 podium winners, please claim your prizes and make your selections! As always, 1st place gets to pick first, followed by 2nd, then 3rd.
 
zer05ive
I've also corrected the D2 standings based on the previous discussion regarding spooble's points.
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Sorry again about this. I really am completely positive that I had given Spooble 8th position in the race he dropped. Sorry to you too Spooble. Next time I will keep double checking the scores as I go. Make sure it doesnt happen again.
 

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