1.05 Satisfaction Poll

[1gt6freak]

I think PD is having a hard time implementing all of GT5 features in GT6 cause they over evaluated the capacities of the PS3 system.

 

[GattigerPlay]

I think we should wait for the GT5 servers shutdown to decide whether to keep whining or not...

 

[lGNAl]

Reverse psychology. PD we don't want any updates or features. What we have is great and enough to play for decades without being bored. If you add any content our brains will overload and shutdown. BTW there are one or two Miata's missing that we would love to see in the game. The 2014 Skyline track edition is also missing. So who want's to start a 'Where's my missing Miata's PD ?' campaign ?

 

[Sander 001]

I've saved hours in being able to avoid lobbies which have boost on thanks to the room info pop up. So I love that.

 

[LVracerGT]

I think we should wait for the GT5 servers shutdown to decide whether to keep whining or not...

This shouldn't matter, it's PD/Sony's responsibility to provide a quality product that they advertised/sold.

Servers have no affect on the amount of bugs and missing content that was promised at release.

 

[Samus]

I think PD is having a hard time implementing all of GT5 features in GT6 cause they over evaluated the capacities of the PS3 system.

The system they've been working with for near 10 years you mean? Yeah, no. Poor excuse.

 

[Famine]

You are right.

I know.

PD is perfect.

That's a bit of a reach. How do you come to that conclusion?

P2P or server, it is still PDs decision how to go

Actually, that's more likely to have been a decision reached by PD and Sony heirarchy. It won't have been a tricky one though - going for dedicated servers for GT6 would require millions in investment in server farms worldwide.

if P2P is not reliable enough for a racing game, but they chose it is Internet's fault. Or ours.

That's broadly accurate.

In P2P, the end consoles act as servers. Individuals wishing to play online are thus responsible for the servers. Anyone who has a set up that is not conducive to optimal connection conditions ruins not only their experience but the experience of anyone they try to play with.

Play with people who have set their connection up properly and use an ISP that doesn't shape or throttle the connection and you optimise your own experience - problems become rarer. It's the nature of P2P that it takes a single person to do it wrong to break it.

That doesn't eliminate software issues that some are reporting though.

Sony is almost perfect as well, just their retailer sucks.

Again, that's a bit of a reach. It strikes me that you're being sarcastic and you'd only be doing that if you don't understand the points. So here it is again:

PD make the game. If there's bugs or missing features, blame PD.
Sony Computer Entertainment (SCE) do all the press stuff. If there's no communication or the communication is wrong, blame SCE.
Retailers sell the game. If they say it has things in it that SCE don't, blame the retailer.

Raging against PD because your retailer sold you a game that the retailer says has a feature in it but SCE don't is very silly - your gripe is with the advertising the retailer issued. Raging against PD for not communicating with you when it's SCE that do all the communicating is also silly - your gripe is with SCE.

If you have legitimate complaints, address them to the right people, or you look like someone who doesn't have a clue just raging into empty space. Like a Youtube comment. Do you want to look like a Youtube comment or do you want your complaints taken seriously? I'd have thought the latter, but it's up to you.

 

[Samus]

Both PD and Sony are at fault for the misleading description for the game. Retailers don't write that (For example on Amazon - http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00CMJ1FIS/?tag=gtplanetuk-20), either Sony marketing or PD did. Whichever it was, the information had to have come from PD to start with, since Sony didn't make the game to know what is in it. PD have to have given this information on the game and said to Sony yeah, you can use that as a description, either believing they could get it in the game at launch or soon after. Either that or they knew they wouldn't have it done for 6 months or more but someone decided to use it anyway.

So yeah, both at fault. You can't blame the retailer though, they can't be expected to play each game to make sure the description is correct. It's up to Sony or the supplier to make sure that info they give them is accurate.

 

[Famine]

Both PD and Sony are at fault for the misleading description for the game. Retailers don't write that (For example on Amazon - http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00CMJ1FIS/?tag=gtplanetuk-20), either Sony marketing or PD did.

No.

They get the same press releases the rest of us get - we got the same ones. Some are lazy and copy-paste it. Some rewrite to their own ends. Those who've rewritten it to suggest those features are included rather than in future updates are at fault. This one is all on the retailer.

Whichever it was, the information had to have come from PD to start with, since Sony didn't make the game to know what is in it.

You can go either way on this, but the relationship between SCE and PD is sort of complex as Kazunori is quite senior in SCE alongside being PD honcho even though PD are subsidiary.

PD certainly supply the information as to what the features are and do and a consult process occurs between the press release writers at SCE and the management of PD to finalise the wording of the release. SCE do all the actual communication legwork.

PD have to have given this information on the game and said to Sony yeah, you can use that as a description, either believing they could get it in the game at launch or soon after. Either that or they knew they wouldn't have it done for 6 months or more but someone decided to use it anyway.

The result in this case was that the features that were in the game were clearly marked and the features that were not but would be were clearly marked.

If we get to the point where GT6's servers are closed and we don't have these Update features then, yes, legitimate PD/SCE gripe.

So yeah, both at fault. You can't blame the retailer though, they can't be expected to play each game to make sure the description is correct. It's up to Sony or the supplier to make sure that info they give them is accurate.

It was - we got the same press releases (I saw the copy in the Game store's folder - when they had to look through because they didn't know what GT6 was and thought I meant GTA5...). You can't blame SCE for retailers rewriting it!

Retailers also buy the game, of course. They buy them from SCE. You then buy them from the retailer. SCE's descriptions were accurate but some retailers' descriptions weren't - and your contract is with the retailer (in the UK, like us, this is according to the terms of the Sale of Goods Act). If they misadvertised, they owe you a refund.

 

[LVracerGT]

Something just occured to me, I played Dirt 3 and F1 2012/2013 online quite a bit last year. I never experienced the amount of problems, check that, I didn't experience any issues online. Those are 3 racing titles that would use P2P correct? Those are all titles from 3rd party studios with a fraction of the budget Sony gives to PD. So how is it that those much less funded titles can have reliable online with other players given all of your explanations @Famine? I even hosted a F1 2012 league for about 1/3 of a season until lack of participation forced me to cancel, but all of the races that I held were issue free. I've also never been dropped from ANY Dirt 3 online match or race.

I would like you to explain then, how I can have no issues with those titles online, yet have massive problems with GT online with the same PS3 system on the same internet connection.

 

[Famine]

Something just occured to me, I played Dirt 3 and F1 2012/2013 online quite a bit last year. I never experienced the amount of problems, check that, I didn't experience any issues online. Those are 3 racing titles that would use P2P correct? Those are all titles from 3rd party studios with a fraction of the budget Sony gives to PD. So how is it that those much less funded titles can have reliable online with other players given all of your explanations @Famine? I even hosted a F1 2012 league for about 1/3 of a season until lack of participation forced me to cancel, but all of the races that I held were issue free. I've also never been dropped from ANY Dirt 3 online match or race.

I would like you to explain then, how I can have no issues with those titles online, yet have massive problems with GT online with the same PS3 system on the same internet connection.

Did you play with the exact same group of people?

If yes, I can't (easily). If no, you just did.

 

[LVracerGT]

Exact same? No, some of the same people? Yes. I played with a couple of the same guys I play GT with, who also had no issues in Dirt OR F1, and do have issues in GT. I also played BF3 and COD with the guys I play GT with and guess what?! No issues with them on those games either, just GT. And I bet if I got some random people together in GT that had issues and then jumped on Dirt or F1 with them, there would be no issues.

No matter how hard you try to dismiss the online issues in GT as P2P based or internet based @Famine, you're wrong.

P.S. Tried to do the TOCA invitational with @Furinkazen last Saturday, got halfway through the race and GT6 completely locked up my PS3, wheel spun all the way to the right and hit the lock. I was forced to do a hard shut-down and a PS3 file restore. This ONLY happens to me when I'm online. But I guess you're going to tell me that's my internet connection or P2P causing that too, eh?

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

Exact same? No, some of the same people? Yes. I played with a couple of the same guys I play GT with, who also had no issues in Dirt OR F1, and do have issues in GT. I also played BF3 and COD with the guys I play GT with and guess what?! No issues with them on those games either, just GT. And I bet if I got some random people together in GT that had issues and then jumped on Dirt or F1 with them, there would be no issues.

No matter how hard you try to dismiss the online issues in GT as P2P based or internet based @Famine, you're wrong.

We always had full lobbies in Dirt 3. I didn't play F1 enough to even tell.
Dirt 3 lobbies were nearly seamless aside from the odd time we couldn't hear each other.

But HEY - There are legitimate reasons a game with a monster budget and Sony Backing should be less of a complete product, how do I know this? A Moderator I'm GTP told me.

 

[Famine]

We always had full lobbies in Dirt 3. I didn't play F1 enough to even tell.
Dirt 3 lobbies were nearly seamless aside from the odd time we couldn't hear each other.

Full or empty doesn't matter. What matters is the connection quality of the people in the lobby.

You can pretend I've said something else if you like, but it isn't helpful to anyone.

Exact same? No

No matter how hard you try to dismiss the online issues in GT as P2P based or internet based @Famine, you're wrong.

Uhh, except you just proved me right with the first three lines. Not that it was needed, because that's how P2P works.

I don't know what the disconnect is here. When playing P2P games online, the consoles exchange information about the game only directly with each other. There are no servers involved - and you can clearly see these if you bodge a LAN up with all the consoles in the same place connected to a common switch. Without bothering the outside world (except for lobby creation and a constant internet connection), you can keep a LAN-style lobby going for days - with dropouts only occurring when the internet connection required to keep the lobbies active drops out. You've been to a GT Academy final, that's how they work there too.

The variables for P2P are how the console is connected inside the building, how the building connects to the internet and then how everyone else's does, because you're exchanging information directly with the other consoles. What happens when one person's console is connected badly either in the building or to the internet? All the other consoles can't connect to it properly and it ruins your lobby.

This happens in every P2P game, including BF & COD - and though COD's public matchmaking servers do their best to connect you to people geographically close and with similar connection quality, you still see it. I've seen it in COD, but not in GT6 - because I only play GT6 in private lobbies with people nearby (relatively) and who know to plug their PS3 into the router rather than leave it flopping about wirelessly and stick it in the DMZ. And UK ISPs aren't too bad for packet shaping and throttling, generally speaking. COD public lobbies would drop out 1 in 3 times (when you could get a non-hacked lobby). That doesn't mean COD's netcode sucks though...

It's how P2P works. That is how things are.

 

[LVracerGT]

Full or empty doesn't matter. What matters is the connection quality of the people in the lobby.

You can pretend I've said something else if you like, but it isn't helpful to anyone.Uhh, except you just proved me right with the first three lines. Not that it was needed, because that's how P2P works.

I don't know what the disconnect is here. When playing P2P games online, the consoles exchange information about the game only directly with each other. There are no servers involved - and you can clearly see these if you bodge a LAN up with all the consoles in the same place connected to a common switch. Without bothering the outside world (except for lobby creation and a constant internet connection), you can keep a LAN-style lobby going for days - with dropouts only occurring when the internet connection required to keep the lobbies active drops out. You've been to a GT Academy final, that's how they work there too.

The variables for P2P are how the console is connected inside the building, how the building connects to the internet and then how everyone else's does, because you're exchanging information directly with the other consoles. What happens when one person's console is connected badly either in the building or to the internet? All the other consoles can't connect to it properly and it ruins your lobby.

This happens in every P2P game, including BF & COD - and though COD's public matchmaking servers do their best to connect you to people geographically close and with similar connection quality, you still see it. I've seen it in COD, but not in GT6 - because I only play GT6 in private lobbies with people nearby (relatively) and who know to plug their PS3 into the router rather than leave it flopping about wirelessly and stick it in the DMZ. And UK ISPs aren't too bad for packet shaping and throttling, generally speaking. COD public lobbies would drop out 1 in 3 times (when you could get a non-hacked lobby). That doesn't mean COD's netcode sucks though...

It's how P2P works. That is how things are.

So all the other P2P racing game's I've played EXCEPT GT work fine, but GT sucks ass at online and it's P2P that's to blame or the internet connections, gotcha

Just curious, do you collect a paycheck from Sony or do they give you money under the table to try and convince people GT works fine online?

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

So all the other P2P racing game's I've played EXCEPT GT work fine, but GT sucks ass at online and it's P2P that's to blame or the internet connections, gotcha

Just curious, do you collect a paycheck from Sony or do they give you money under the table to try and convince people GT works fine online?

Want to make a quick bet? There will be 100% understandable reasons for this because PD can do no wrong .

 

[Famine]

So all the other P2P racing game's I've played EXCEPT GT work fine, but GT sucks ass at online and it's P2P that's to blame or the internet connections, gotcha

P2P isn't to blame. P2P is simply a connection method that has all the end points communicating with one another without any servers in the way.

If one of the end points has a rubbish connection, it'll fail. It's that simple. Do you play with the same end points every time? You already said you don't and that explains why you see different performance from different games. That's also that simple.

Just curious, do you collect a paycheck from Sony or do they give you money under the table to try and convince people GT works fine online?

Go look up how Peer-to-Peer and Client-Server differ from each other, before you say something silly.

I've tried patiently explaining to you why you're seeing differences. I don't expect to be insulted in return.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

P.S. Tried to do the TOCA invitational with @Furinkazen last Saturday, got halfway through the race and GT6 completely locked up my PS3, wheel spun all the way to the right and hit the lock. I was forced to do a hard shut-down and a PS3 file restore. This ONLY happens to me when I'm online. But I guess you're going to tell me that's my internet connection or P2P causing that too, eh?

That issue doesn't seem online gaming related but more game crashing related. Happens offline too sometimes in menus. If I was to guess I think it is related to running out of memory. Anyway if you got any music online then best to disable any music options as much as you can and also if you play in 1080p, maybe switching to 720p might help. Not sure on that but I think it will help. Also getting host to do that should help. I've yet to play GT6 online but I found GT5 online gaming even with people with poor internet connections amazingly good. I did not play much online though. I played using Wifi too. Will see how GT6 online is one day once I finished offline part of game, hopefully PD fix more of the stability of the game.

There is a remarkable improvement from how the state of the game was in May 2013 and level they got it at for launch. It has shown good levels of improvement, I'm glad they refactored the code, maybe short term pain but everything PD seem to do is for long term gain by maximising efficiency levels in what they do. I like how fast the loading times are now.

 

[LVracerGT]

P2P isn't to blame.

That's completely contradictory to what you've been saying, blaming P2P as the reason people have issues in GT. And I'm the one spouting nonsense?

 

[Famine]

That's completely contradictory to what you've been saying, blaming P2P as the reason people have issues in GT.

No it isn't. Read what I'm typing.

P2P is how the consoles connect. To each other, with no centralised server. The consoles become the servers (and the nodes). When one of the consoles is unreliably connected, all of the others in the network experience issues. That's how P2P works. Look it up if you don't believe me.

It's playing with individuals who are too remote or who have too unreliable a connection that is to blame.

 

[LVracerGT]

No it isn't. Read what I'm typing.

P2P is how the consoles connect. To each other, with no centralised server. The consoles become the servers (and the nodes). When one of the consoles is unreliably connected, all of the others in the network experience issues. That's how P2P works. Look it up if you don't believe me.

It's playing with individuals who are too remote or who have too unreliable a connection that is to blame.

I'm reading what you're typing just fine. As I've explained to you I've had reliable connections and races with the same people in Dirt 3 and F1 as I've had issues in GT with. I've also had reliable connections and matches with those same people in other games as I've stated above.

So again, I can have reliable races/games with the same people outside of GT. Once we try to play GT people can't see each other, randomly disconnect etc. As have the majority of people who play GT online, with major figures in the online GT league community such as @Furinkazen calling for PD to fix the online reliability issues.

I don't care how much you know about P2P and client servers, you can't tell me the issues are not withing GT when I can play reliably with the same, and different people in other games without issue.

And about your comment about the people you're playing with being too remote, the three most common people I try to race with are no more than 6 hours driving distance from me, with the closest being 30 minutes. I was able to reliably race with poeple from England and Australia in F1 2012.

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

It's playing with individuals who are too remote or who have too unreliable a connection that is to blame.

Find that very hard to agree with. So many of the friends in which I play Gt6 and other games with have connectivity problems exclusively on gt6. Now, I know you'll pull the "but those are different server types so it doesn't count" - argument like always, but with that in mind. Who's fault is it for using a server type that (plainly) can't sustain as much traffic as other types, in the Gt6.

Also, these are games that have MORE people than the lobbies we run in on GT6.

Also, quick question - do you see any wrong in this game?

.

I don't care how much you know about P2P and client servers, you can't tell me the issues are not withing GT when I can play reliably with the same, and different people in other games without issue.

Guess you beat me to it.

 

[Tornado]

I find it interesting that attempting to explain how something works on a technical level is enough to get one labeled a PD schill nowadays.

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

I find it interesting that attempting to explain how something works on a technical level is enough to get one labeled a PD schill nowadays.

How interesting do you find it?

On a serious note - it wasn't the fact that he explain technicals, behind the comment.

 

[Famine]

I'm reading what you're typing just fine. As I've explained to you I've had reliable connections and races with the same people in Dirt 3 and F1 as I've had issues in GT with. I've also had reliable connections and matches with those same people in other games as I've stated above.

It's not just about your connection!

So again, I can have reliable races/games with the same people outside of GT. Once we try to play GT people can't see each other, randomly disconnect etc.

Except you already said it's not the exact same people. Which is what I keep telling you.

I can have reliable races/games with people in GT6 but not in MW2. MW2 isn't to blame - they're not the exact same people.

As have the majority of people who play GT online, with major figures in the online GT league community such as @Furinkazen calling for PD to fix the online reliability issues.

I don't care how much you know about P2P and client servers, you can't tell me the issues are not withing GT when I can play reliably with the same, and different people in other games without issue.

You already told me it's not the exact same people. I asked you that question and you answered "no".

Insert one person with an unreliable connection to a P2P lobby and anything can happen. Usually bad. That's how P2P works. Look up how P2P works compared to Client-Server.

Find that very hard to agree with. So many of the friends in which I play Gt6 and other games with have connectivity problems exclusively on gt6. Now, I know you'll pull the "but those are different server types so it doesn't count" - argument like always, but with that in mind. Who's fault is it for using a server type that (plainly) can't sustain as much traffic as other types, in the Gt6.

What are you talking about? I haven't mentioned "different server types" even once.

Just look up peer-to-peer (which is how most console games work) and compare it to client-server (which is how most PC games work, because users set their own PCs up as servers). Consoles can't use client-server reliably without an investment of millions into server farms.

Also, these are games that have MORE people than the lobbies we run in on GT6.

Great. I already told you that it doesn't matter how many are in (though in public games the more people join the more likely you are to have a technophobe playing), but the quality of every connection in the lobby.

Also, quick question - do you see any wrong in this game?

Yes, lots.

This has nothing to do with the fact that people blaming "GT6's servers" for poor online performance are wrong because GT6 doesn't have content delivery servers - it's peer-to-peer. The servers are the consoles and the consoles that aren't correctly connected are to blame.


We're so far off the topic now it's not funny (except to Tornado - but he's weird) and since there's some chaps here who just want scapegoats rather than information, I'm going to protect them from themselves.