10 reasons why Ferrari Challenge is better than GT5P

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 5: Prologue' started by Biggles, Dec 10, 2008.

  1. Biggles

    Biggles

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    You appear to be confused, misinformed &/or delusional.

    Great... lets stop playing all games, because they ALL have problems!

    The point of this thread was to accentuate the positive, not dwell on the negative of either game. It's OK to like GT5P AND FC. I don't understand why people feel the need to be so defensive about GT5P: I doubt there are any FC players who haven't also played & enjoyed GT5P.
     
  2. RacerPaul

    RacerPaul

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    part of it i think is that people don't want to get on the wrong side of the GT glitterati here

    and then there's the 10 years worth of spoon-fed GT magnificence thats all over t'net
     
  3. Biggles

    Biggles

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    You mean the GT stormtroopers - KY's personal bodyguard. ;)
     
  4. cpp214

    cpp214 Premium

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    ^^ I have noticed this too. Post anything even vaguely critical of the GT franchise, and you get jumped on by the "PD loyalists" as I like to refer to them :rolleyes:
     
  5. G.T.Ace

    G.T.Ace

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    I think its more the attitude of the op.
    "10 reasons why Ferrari Challenge is better than GT5P"
    Great start right there.
    Then why is it in the "10 reasons why Ferrari Challenge is better than GT5P" list?
    If you wouldve said "Force Feedback" everything would be okay or at least debatable.
    Not everyone loves Ferraris to death and GT5P has a bigger total number of cars (not to mention the better cockpits in them). I know you posted this also:
    So why is it one of ten points in the list? The whole attitude in this thread never felt like "Hey, i found a nice other racing game as an alternative to GT5P". No wonder that the majority of Gran Turismo fans on GTPlanet (duh) will give you negative response.
     
  6. Sivers

    Sivers

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    Actually, in times gone by, this was a very good thread with a lot of interesting discussion from the 'majority of Gran Turismo fans'. It convinced me and, I'm sure, countless others to buy and enjoy FC.

    The OP is a clear summary of what's gone on in the last 30 pages if you ignore the agressive posts from people who miss the point...
     
  7. Greycap

    Greycap Premium

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    This is a very interesting point because you make it sound like it's a serious flaw in GT5P (or any GT for that matter) that ultimate precision is needed when hunting the last tenths. Come to think of it, it's that way in every driving sim and real life too. I've been playing LFS a lot lately and if I brake a fraction of a second too early in that game I'm entering the corner too slow. If I brake a fraction too late I'm probably in the wall or on the sand. Or just going too slow again. If I open the throttle too early I'll go round and around and... you get the idea. And I don't think anybody in their right minds says that LFS is a bad sim.

    With all respect... if you have a game that you can play purely by feel, braking where it feels good and flooring it where it feels good, and that still rewards you with anything resembling a top ten position in the ranking list, you're playing a game that has its rankings populated by sunday drivers.

    Before I get jumped on, as a disclaimer, no, I haven't played FC. I haven't played GT5P that much either. This was just an observation.
     
  8. Masi_23

    Masi_23

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    I hate the stupid gear change sound.
     
  9. Biggles

    Biggles

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    Thank you! :)

    This could be a difficulty with communicating "tone" over the internet, especially with non-native English speakers. The intention of the OP was quite "playful" - not aggressive at all.

    I think this point is quite clearly made in the OP: the physics in FC are good, but I wouldn't claim that the physics in FC are better than GT5P's. However, IMO the FFB is.

    Again, my point was quite straightforward: while FC is restricted ( a bad thing) to all Ferraris, most people like Ferraris & would prefer that option to, for eg. a game with only Volvos (actually I know there is a PC game that is ALL Volvos - no offence to the Swedes... ;))

    Agreed: it should be a combination of experience & feel, & that's certainly the way it is in FC. It's true that the only way to hunt for those few tenths or hundredths in any racing game IS by multiple repetition. But personally, I find that to be the least enjoyable part of racing, because, at a certain point, the element of repetition starts to completely take over from the element of feel. An hour or so at a TT is enough for me, after that it starts to become less fun & more obsessive/compulsive!

    I think the problem with GT5P is that most good drivers have spent the majority of their time on just 2 tracks - Fuji & Suzuka - driving a very small number of cars (because the other ones are not competitive). As a consequence, the level of driving is almost too high: because people have put so many laps in, the driving is a bit too predictable. This was the number one reason out of the "Ten Reasons" for trying FC: more tracks. Also, because all racing in FC is only one-model racing (with no tuning), there is the potential for quite varied racing, as all the cars can, by definition, be raced competitively (unfortunately, the majority of people racing chose to stick to the relatively uninteresting F430 :indiff:)
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2009
  10. G.T.Ace

    G.T.Ace

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    I didnt say it was aggressive, but also "playful" can be bad sometimes.
    You know the headline counts too? Why are you listing physics in their when you mean force feedback? This is important, not everyone reads every word in such a long post, this is why you get a flamewar.
    So why is it in the list of 10 things that are better than in GT5 Prologue (this is not "10 things that are better than in Volvo - The Game"?

    And you dont have to explain me your points, but i find it pretty obvious that you get these reactions with a topic and op like that.

    Again, why did you make such a (flawed in some points) comparison in the first place?
     
  11. TrievelA7X

    TrievelA7X

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    Care to elaborate?
    And like GT ACE said, the name of this thread is 10 reasons FC is better than GT5P. Not "10 reasons FC is another enjoyable game. It sounds like you're changing your argument to fit the current debate, because you clearly started out stating that FC was better in 10 ways, and every single one you listed just happens to be untrue or highly debatable.
     
  12. Radracing

    Radracing Premium

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    I doubt if you actually have driven your Elise to the extreme limit of adhesion, because that is what PD is trying to mimic in the game. Driving your car fast in public roads will not show you how your Elise will actually handle. You will have to drive it like you are prepared to crash it in the game. So let's say you are doing a lap time of 1'15" on a certain track in the game you have to be driving your real car at the same lap times. If you are driving fast in the real world and your lap time is off by even 10 sec. you are not driving it as hard at the limit and it will show a big difference in the handling and physics compared to the game.

    This is the biggest reason why FC is no comparison to GT Kazunori is the actual driver and developer of the game. Where as FC had to pay Senna to test drive the physics of the FC game. It is to hard for a driver to explain to a game developer how exactly the car is handling when the driver has no clue on how to program a game and the same with a developer what exactly the driver is saying that needs to be done with the physics. Kazunori actually drives the real cars to the limit and he knows how to translate it in the game.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2009
  13. Biggles

    Biggles

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    There is no wheel made specially for FC, crap or otherwise.

    I'm not complaining about anything you do or don't choose to do. But you are hardly in a position to comment on the relative merits of the FFB in GT5P & FC, if you don't use a wheel!

    GT.ace: your unrelenting dedication to protecting the reputation of GT would be admirable if it weren't so misplaced. Let me try & explain it another way: if we were talking about FC5P - the 5th instalment of a billion dollar selling franchise - & GT1 the 1st version of new racing game by a small independent game studio, there is no way I would post a thread on the FCPlanet website called: "The 10 reasons why FC5P is a better game than GT1", because, regardless of which game were actually better, it would be completely pointless.

    The reason for the OP was to draw people's attention to a new, underrated (IMO) PS3 racing sim by a small developer & encourage them to give it a try. It was done in a somewhat tongue-in-cheek (ironisch gemeint) manner, but this seems to have entirely escaped your (& some other GT fans) perception.

    There have been an assortment of posters coming on to say that FC is "crap", & that I must be a terrible GT5P driver. In fact, unlike all these people, I have a lot of experience in both games, & while I may not be the fastest driver out there in either game, I can see that once you get past the initial differences in the feel of the physics & FFB, the skills required to excel are basically the same in both games.

    On balance, I think I have got more enjoyment out of FC & F1CE than GT5P, but a large part of that has to do with GT5P being a "demo" (another argument that has been trotted out over & over again :rolleyes:), with very limited content. I can fully accept that other people may legitimately prefer GT5P to FC or F1CE, but I don't accept as legitimate that they dismiss FC as "crap".

    I hope, even expect that the full GT5, when it finally appears, will be the best racing sim yet. In the meantime, after having spent many months enjoying GT5P, I will also have spent a whole year enjoying what FC has to offer. :tup:
     
  14. TrievelA7X

    TrievelA7X

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    Are you kidding me?
    http://www.amazon.com/Ferrari-Universal-5-Challenge-Wheel-GameCube/dp/B000WR42T6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1249620472&sr=8-4

    I never claimed to know the differences, I just don't believe vibration through a wheel for a video game is a very big deal. Maybe it is, but it doesn't make a game "better" just because the FFB is better, it means one small portion is better. I guess the size of that portion is debatable due to personal preference.

    FC will not become a billion dollar franchise, it's not a good enough game. And that would be comparing FC1 to a game made 2 platforms and over a decade ago? A game that was possibly the most ground breaking in console-racing game history?
    No, FC isn't ground-breaking, it doesn't have a ground breaking list of cars, or tracks, or graphics, or gameplay. The fact that a preview game itself can clearly be better says very little for FC. Now if you said it was better than the "HD Demo", I'd agree.

    I for one don't believe that. I believe you were upset with GT5P being what it was called: A Prologue. You wanted GT5, and were upset that it wasn't. You tried FC, and it was refreshing for you, and you came up with a list of reasons/things you felt were better in it.

    I'm sure they are, they're driving games. The same skills are required to excel in Andretti Racing for Sega, and NFS.

    But you keep complaining about GT5P's lack of content. How many cars are in FC? And they're all racing cars? I'll give you it has more tracks, but would you drive the same 10 cars round that many tracks in GT5P without complaining? No. You're holding FC to a lower standard than GT5P. And what if GT5P had no tuning? Again, you wouldn't dismiss it.
    The things you gripe about for GT5P, you are willing to look the other way for in FC. Excuse me and others if we do not.

    That is good. I don't think anyone has a problem with that. But you also need to understand that just because myself and others do not like FC, does not make us "fanboys", nor does it mean we won't enjoy anything other than the GT series. It means we just don't like FC.
     
  15. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    That wheel has nothing whatsoever to do with Ferrari Challenge. It is an entirely separate licensed product.
     
  16. TrievelA7X

    TrievelA7X

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    If you mean it has nothing to do with it like the Driving Force Pro GT has nothing to do with GT5P and GT5, then yes.
    http://www.ciao.co.uk/Thrustmaster_Ferrari_Wheel_and_pedals_set__5433692
    There's that pesky "Ferrari challenge racing wheel set" name to it again. I wonder why they would call it the Ferrari challenge racing wheel, if not for Ferrari challenge?:idea:
     
  17. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    No. The Driving Force GT is the official wheel for GT5P. It was designed for the game.

    The Ferrari wheel has nothing to do with the Ferrari Challenge game. It's no different to me producing a wheel and calling it the Ferrari Challenge wheel. It doesn't mean it somehow becomes an official game product all of a sudden. It was not developed for Ferrari Challenge the game. It is an entirely separate licensed product.
     
  18. WolfRacer543

    WolfRacer543

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    "Ferrari Challenge" is a racing series.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_Challenge
     
  19. klondike

    klondike

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    Well the trueth is that wheel has absolutely nothing to do with the game wich it for some reason share its name with.

    The wheel even suports some platforms where the game is not aviable on. (PC & gamecube)

    Saying that this wheel is in anyway related to FC (the game) is as much trueth as your earlyer review of the driving physics in the game.

    At the end of the day the trueth is both games has their ups and downs, even F1CE does somethings better than these two.

    I gues this thread is mostly for people who arent a fanatic about one franchise and just want to have more options open to them.

    1. GT5 P. Good physics model. Fantastic graphics. Few tracks, not much single player content. Online options very limited.

    2. FC. Good physics model. Graphics are not as good as GT5 P. Many really good tracks, lots of single player content. Online supports microphone, private races, host can set filters of wich aids are allowed.

    3. F1 CE. Physics model is not as good as the other two games, but it aint horibel eather. Graphics are very good, although not as good as GT5 P. There is a lot of singleplayer content. The game has pitstops, tire wear and fuel useage. Also online although i think the US servers are closed now, and there may not be much activity on the EU servers, as the game is quite old now.

    For people who likes driving games, all 3 games are worth having. Since they all add something wich some of the other is lacking.

    In a dream worlds the best game would be a game that combined all 3 games into 1 game. but we are yet to see such a game on the PS3 system.

    We are many that hope than when the actual full game Gran turismo 5 will be released it will be that game, but no one knows for sure. So all we can do for now to fill the time is to enjoy all 3 games.

    That is what this thread is really about. To make people aware that there is a game out there wich has not gained much attention in other game medias. But it exist a game wich is a pretty good alternative / suplement to GT5 P.
     
  20. Zathra5_

    Zathra5_

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    Everyone has the right to there opinion and there are a lot of things not to like about FC. If you read this thread you will see a pretty balanced approach to the issue. Yes, the title of the thread is a little inflammatory but gist of the thread is that FC is a good game that people should give a chance. Again not liking FC doesn't make you a fanboy but many of your comments make you appear to be a fanboy. Telling someone what they think has to take the cake. You don't like the physics but have in no way (from what I can see) articulated what you don't like about it. Besides FFB I can think of two ways that FC has better physics: drafting and collision physics. The whole Ferrari challenge wheel thing came off as very fanboyish. You obviously don't know what force feedback is all about (hint, it's not just vibration). You also seemed to have missed that Ferrari Challenge is a real life racing series. I don't know how you missed this if you spent any time with the game. That makes me wonder how well you actually know the physics of the game.
     
  21. G.T.Ace

    G.T.Ace

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    What the hell?
    I only find it obvious that you get such reactions, i dont want to defend anything.
     
  22. Zathra5_

    Zathra5_

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    Besides the title, I don't see any problem with the original post. You may not like him using Physics as a point but he went and explained what he meant so I really don't get why you have a problem. The original post is well thought out and relatively well balanced. The only big point that I see it missing is that the FC network code isn't as good as GT5Ps. The purpose of the title appears to be to get people to read the thread, and it appears to have been successful. Unfortunately we have gotten people who have decided to post anti-FC or pro GT comments without actually reading any of the thread to see what it is actually about.
     
  23. Bogie 19th

    Bogie 19th

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    Is Ferrari Challenge ANYTHING like Forza/GT as far as simulation goes? I only want SIM games.
     
  24. AERO_HDT

    AERO_HDT

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    I think 32 pages of comments means that Biggles has put forth a very convincing argument and from everything I've read it appears that a lot of GTP-ers who have actually spent some time with FC tend to agree with him.

    Every post from here on out is a victory for Biggles, negative or not.

    :tup:
     
  25. klondike

    klondike

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    Yes it is, that is infact its biggest plus ( the physics ) because the game has no where near as much content as Forza 2 or the full GT 5 game will have.

    I think most people here see this game as a sort of game we can play on the PS3 while we are waiting for the full GT 5 game. However as you already have Forza 2 you might be a litle disapointed because the game does not have that much content. However it has both in car view and support wheels, wich is what Forza is truely missing IMO.

    Here is a review of FC. Mind you the reviewer is driving with aids on and is not the best driver in the world, but still can give you and idea about the game.

    Part1.


    Part2.


    Best is to open links in a new window and select HD quality.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2009
  26. dancardesigner

    dancardesigner (Banned)

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    Theres something weird about this game and i can't put my finger on it, but when i play it seems like the road and corners flow too smoothly, and it kind of makes it hard to judge the speed. I know that sounds weird but it's the only way i can describe it. It feels like your smoothly gliding over the surface rather than driving. And also im not a fan of the physics, the cars seem too heavy and unresponsive, this game is way more difficult and tedious than GT5 but i don't think more realistic, i have a certain sense what a cars going to do in GT5 when i give it a flick or whatever i can predict the outcome, but in FC it seems like im constantly having to react to the cars unpredictability. In fact i can think of a good analogy to driving cars in FC that ties with what iv'e said, the cars feel like driving a barge, smooth, gliding, high inertia, no grip, and slow reactions. I will say that you get more information through the wheel with FC than Gt5, such as tire rumble and bumps, but the info it translates for how the car is behaving seems akin to an old PC seem, Gt5 i think although very diluted and uncomplex gives a good sense of when the cars losing grip compared to a lot of games, the only game i think has FFB good in all areas is Rfactor.
     
  27. RacerPaul

    RacerPaul

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    i've just got rFactor, seems i should get my wheel into it (driving force ex). but moving it from PS3 to PC is a drag

    perhaps i should plead with the mrs to let me get another :lol:

    as far as FC vs GT5P goes, i reckon they both have their ups and downs

    FC seems more like a wrestling match to me, getting the car round the track. i mean that in a positive way

    GT5P is highly polished and smoooth, but a bit uptight imo
     
  28. Biggles

    Biggles

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    I don't feel like it's a victory for me, but it certainly has been an education for me: every point I make, no matter how clearly or how many different ways I make it, is misunderstood, misinterpreted, or just plain ignored while the poster pursues his own agenda. I'm even told that I didn't really mean what I say I meant! :crazy: :banghead:

    It is reassuring that a number of GTPers have clearly understood what I have been trying to say (& I agree with every detail of Klondike's simple summary).

    Yes, I have really enjoyed GT5P - more than a year ago I started this thread:

    https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=107796

    after an amazing night of online racing. It remains the most exciting online racing I have experienced in any game. However, as the months went by, the very limited online events available in Prologue started to get a little stale.

    I picked up FC. I found it very disappointing at first & was ready to get rid of the game, but I stuck with it, & over time (& after a fairly important update) I grew to appreciate the game more & more. It's far from a perfect game & is not nearly as polished as GT5P, but it is a good game & does certain (important) things better than GT5P.

    Do I hold GT to a higher standard than FC? Definitely! I think it's reasonable to expect a lot of a game that has a budget of millions, a large professional staff, & years of development experience. Why people should feel the need to rush to defend one of the corporate giants in the gaming industry from a tiny, insignificant developer is something I have a hard time understanding. And let's be clear: there's no question that every FC buyer also owns GT5P.

    The GT series was groundbreaking in the early days, but I don't think GT4 was groundbreaking in any way, except the way it pulled pretty amazing graphics out of an aging console system. GT5P has significantly improved on GT's physics & once again, as expected, improved on the graphics, but in order to really move on to a new level, I think it's actually good that PD should feel as much pressure as possible from rivals like Forza, NFS (Shift), FC & any other racing sim developer out there. We are the ones who stand to gain from that pressure...
     
  29. m00ndancer

    m00ndancer Premium

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    Slightly of topic:

    You need a better wheel than the EX in my opinion. Minimum a DFP, DFGT.
    rFactor has a big flaw, it's only as good as the mod and track you have. That said, when you drive mods that been produced with the plug in "Real feel" in mind it's outstanding. FC is not, to many flaws, at least for me.
    To be honest, I'll be driving GRID rather than FC. GRID is all out arcade,
    FC can't decide. But that's my opinion and I know that many in this thread
    don't share that, and before you say "Try it you'll like it". Rest assured, I had it for about 14 days before I traded it for another game.

    GT5P is a strange beast, in a F40 it's heaven in some of the other cars it's
    detached, boring and strangely behaving. The cars are not equal in feedback
    and presence even when you take account for difference in what type of car it is.
     
  30. Bogie 19th

    Bogie 19th

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    Thanks for posting. Just watched both videos. You have now got my attention with this title. I am going to do some more research on it and check out the dedicated forums. Thank you.