101st Indianapolis 500- 28 May 2017Open Wheel 

  • Thread starter ukfan758
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I can't remember seeing a hit like that since Hinchcliffs crash 2 years ago.

Edit: I'm watching pre race coverage for the NASCAR All Star race and they just showed a replay of this crash.
 
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ukfan758
I'm saying if it weren't for all of these.
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I remember back when all the best cars were aluminum, some even with the driver's feet ahead of the front axle line, and they came apart like cracker boxes even going 30 mph slower.
 
ukfan758
I'm saying if it weren't for all of these.
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I know what you're saying, and I just said, you could eliminate some of this from the equation and I'm sure he'd still be alive. Saying if one of these weren't apart of the situation he would have died, seems too absolutist really, when many drivers by what you've just said should have died over the years because they weren't in the DW12 or didn't have a HANS device.

Safety has been a culmination of many decades hard work, I think it's great he is okay without injury, but I'm not surprised. I guess is the simple way to put my reaction to your post.

Dotini
I remember back when all the best cars were aluminum, some even with the driver's feet ahead of the front axle line, and they came apart like cracker boxes even going 30 mph slower.
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Cars for years have been designed to do this rather than being a fixed structure, one because of quickly fixing damaged pieces and two because of safety. It's easier for pieces to absorb and break apart dissipating kinetic energy than it is have it essentially oscillate and carry through to the driver full on.

What cars had a driver's feet ahead of the front axle?
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
I know what you're saying, and I just said, you could eliminate some of this from the equation and I'm sure he'd still be alive. Saying if one of these weren't apart of the situation he would have died, seems too absolutist really, when many drivers by what you've just said should have died over the years because they weren't in the DW12 or didn't have a HANS device.

Safety has been a culmination of many decades hard work, I think it's great he is okay without injury, but I'm not surprised. I guess is the simple way to put my reaction to your post.



Cars for years have been designed to do this rather than being a fixed structure, one because of quickly fixing damaged pieces and two because of safety. It's easier for pieces to absorb and break apart dissipating kinetic energy than it is have it essentially oscillate and carry through to the driver full on.

What cars had a driver's feet ahead of the front axle?
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Gordon Smiley's car had his feet ahead of the front axle. But that was 1982.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
That's insane, I never knew they did that, thanks for the info.
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The cars with the shorter noses usually had the driver's feet either above the axle housing or in front of it varying on driver height. That came to a stop by the 90's but it shows how insane Indianapolis used to be.
 
Three-time F1 world champion Nelson Piquet made a rookie mistake coming into the pits at Indy. His feet were mangled in the wall, and he's never been the same since.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Safety has been a culmination of many decades hard work, I think it's great he is okay without injury, but I'm not surprised. I guess is the simple way to put my reaction to your post.
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He's not without injury...

So how can I satisfy you since you're bothered by my post? That he would've survived regardless of any of the things I listed?
 
Glad to hear it's nothing terribly serious for Bourdais (i.e. no brain/spine, etc. injuries). Is this the end of his racing career though? Probably a decent amount of recovery time, and he's up there in age. Maybe done with Indy but will continue to race in sportscars and the occasional LeMans? Or will be come back and jump right into a seat?

Bourdais is my favourite driver currently in Indy...really hated to see that collision.
 
jake2013guy
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Those are terrible injuries. He will feel them for the rest of his life.

Unquestionably he would have fared much less well in aluminum or feet-first cars of yesteryear.

I understand the carbon fiber in the modern Indy car chassis is over 1" thick. It's as solid as a battle tank.

Oddly enough, the chrome-moly tube frame roadsters of the fifties and early sixties often fared well against the wall, even though the driver died.
 
jake2013guy
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Not good, but he's alive. Likely the end of his season as well, It'll take a while before he can walk normally, much less drive.

TheElbows
Glad to hear it's nothing terribly serious for Bourdais (i.e. no brain/spine, etc. injuries). Is this the end of his racing career though? Probably a decent amount of recovery time, and he's up there in age. Maybe done with Indy but will continue to race in sportscars and the occasional LeMans? Or will be come back and jump right into a seat?

Bourdais is my favourite driver currently in Indy...really hated to see that collision.
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Indycars seem to be more forgiving of seasoned drivers...though that's compared to F1 where a career can be over before the age of 25 just because they aren't appealing to anyone.

I would say he's out for most of 2017, maybe runs one or two events at the end of the season, then comes back hungry in 2018.
 
ukfan758
He's not without injury...
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Yes but no where did I say I expected him not to be injured. Small confines and tons of energy hitting a wall, something is bound to break or get injured on a person. I was more disturbed by you easily thinking death without such items.

So how can I satisfy you since you're bothered by my post? That he would've survived regardless of any of the things I listed?
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Regardless of any? Also didn't state that, I'm trying to stress that safety has been growing for some time, and to think that all of the things you listed are necessary for survival and without, death would occur. Seems to be neglecting how safe the IR-03/05 was. That's not to say the DW12 isn't a necessary improvement after the tragic loss of Dan Wheldon, but it was obviously on it's way despite that loss.
 
IforceV8
I think Seb is going to be sick about this whole deal. They probably trimmed out too much and didnt really need to and he will also miss his home race the 24hr of Le Mans now because of that.
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I'm very sure that he would have had the final say so probably would admit that it was too aggressive due to the incident. However, he was also running the left side winglet.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Yes but no where did I say I expected him not to be injured. Small confines and tons of energy hitting a wall, something is bound to break or get injured on a person. I was more disturbed by you easily thinking death without such items.



Regardless of any? Also didn't state that, I'm trying to stress that safety has been growing for some time, and to think that all of the things you listed are necessary for survival and without, death would occur. Seems to be neglecting how safe the IR-03/05 was. That's not to say the DW12 isn't a necessary improvement after the tragic loss of Dan Wheldon, but it was obviously on it's way despite that loss.
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Ok, I'm changing my view to it's excellent that he survived and for safety in general. There? Happy now? No longer "disturbed" by my opinion? This is my view from now on.
 
jake2013guy
I'm very sure that he would have had the final say so probably would admit that it was too aggressive due to the incident. However, he was also running the left side winglet.
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It looked like he had a moment in turn 3 lap 2 and the car looked like it bottomed out on either lap 2 or into 1 on lap 3, I dont remember which. I already deleted the session from my DVR so I cant go back and look at it again.:banghead:
 
IforceV8
It looked like he had a moment in turn 3 lap 2 and the car looked like it bottomed out on either lap 2 or into 1 on lap 3, I dont remember which. I already deleted the session from my DVR so I cant go back and look at it again.:banghead:
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I think it was T3 Lap 2. I was surprised nobody had an incident where they bottomed throughout that session.
 
Qualifying Day 1 results are posted in the OP for those inquiring. Take note that these results are unofficial and the field is set tomorrow.
 
ukfan758
Ok, I'm changing my view to it's excellent that he survived and for safety in general. There? Happy now? No longer "disturbed" by my opinion? This is my view from now on.
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No one is saying you have to change your view, there will clearly be disagreement from others on what I say too. So what? My point of disagreeing isn't for you to say "oh yes, I see now, I have changed my perspective", it's nice when people understand a different view point, but not something you have to agree with.

The reason I disagree with posts, and what not is because I think there is some element that to me isn't fair or correct to the topic being discussed. I didn't think you were giving a fair shake to past iterations of Indy. I also got the notion that only recently Indy racing has become safe, which to those watching for the first time due to a certain driver may also think.

So sorry if you feel attacked (not sure why), wasn't the point. Remember it's a forum people are going to respond to you potentially at any given time you post.

jake2013guy
I think it was T3 Lap 2. I was surprised nobody had an incident where they bottomed throughout that session.
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It looked like many people were running lower to the rear than I'd seen all week. So yeah it's surprising to me as well that no one really bottomed out.
 
This was definitely one of the bigger single car crashes I've seen. I just can't get over how fast he went, essentially head on, into the wall. Definitely a scary moment. Hoping he can make a quick and full recovery from his injuries.
 
NW48
This was definitely one of the bigger single car crashes I've seen. I just can't get over how fast he went, essentially head on, into the wall. Definitely a scary moment. Hoping he can make a quick and full recovery from his injuries.
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What scared me was that he got loose, corrected, and then the rears caught...but the fronts never looked to turn left again after that. I know they don't turn much at speed, but it didn't look like he was changing direction at all. He went through the center of the skids that were already there.
 
BKGlover
What scared me was that he got loose, corrected, and then the rears caught...but the fronts never looked to turn left again after that. I know they don't turn much at speed, but it didn't look like he was changing direction at all. He went through the center of the skids that were already there.
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Bourdais may have let go of the wheel the moment he knew he was heading into the wall. The car was trimmed to the edge and Bourdais made the mistake of trying to catch the slide when rear stepped out.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
What cars had a driver's feet ahead of the front axle?
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Indy, no idea... but it was normal in F1 until Ralf Schumacher's leg-piercing accident in Monaco iirc. In Kubica's big Montreal crash his feet were visible at the end of the monocoque as the car came to rest, presumably they were past the axle line too.
 
Also, in sports car racing, I know that the 956 was a car that had the driver's feet ahead of the front axle. IMSA banned it for that reason which lead to Porsche developing the 962.
 
NW48
This was definitely one of the bigger single car crashes I've seen. I just can't get over how fast he went, essentially head on, into the wall. Definitely a scary moment. Hoping he can make a quick and full recovery from his injuries.
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It reminded me of Senna's fatal crash, but carrying more speed and luckily for Bourdais at a better angle. The wheel could have impacted his head there..

First time I'm following Indycar in a long time again (I think the last time I watched a race it was in the late nineties). Never seen the Indy 500 neither so for the sports popularity, I'm at least living proof that Alonso's participation works across the Atlantic :).

When is qualy 2 on?
 
TenEightyOne
Indy, no idea... but it was normal in F1 until Ralf Schumacher's leg-piercing accident in Monaco iirc. In Kubica's big Montreal crash his feet were visible at the end of the monocoque as the car came to rest, presumably they were past the axle line too.
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That rule was introduced for the 1988 season. Jacques Lafitte's crash at Brands in 1986 was the main catalyst for the rule to be brought in.

Kubica's feet were behind the line of the front axle. They were visible because the front axle, and most of the nose, was gone.
 

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