1080i VERSUS 480p PIX INSIDE!!!!!!!!!

[Pako]

Where's my manners.....

Thanks 1twojay for the pics and comparison shots! 👍

 

[Joe Racer]

LCDs are stuck at a certain resolution. That's what he means.

 

[wgb113]

but CRT RPTV's wouldn't stand my use of GT4 at all, it would burn in in just a few months

That is misleading as well. Sure if you leave your contrast set to 100% and play for hours at a time it will burn in. With a simple run through DVE or Avia to set your levels properly this is reduced DRASTICALLY. If you go as far as Buck-O and I have and have your set professionally calibrated, this becomes a non-issue.

Bill

 

[ChristmasGTO]

I ordered an Awsome VGA Box from
http://www.vdigi.com/
I have a 19 Inch Xerox LCD im going to try running all my games and such to it to see how it goes, If the LCD doesnt work out so well I have a Spare CRT that I can use, I'm so excited to finally be able to use 480p and 1080i, i hope it makes a Huge Differance!

 

[orubasarot]

...

 

[1twojay]

Where's my manners.....

Thanks 1twojay for the pics and comparison shots! 👍

 

[orubasarot]

...

 

[saveur2]

Thanks for your answer.

In fact, the resolution changes from 480i to 1080i just after you exit the track/mission selection menu. A pop up window appears in my TV indicating the new resolution. There is some flickering at that moment, but it takes only a fraction of a second. The prerace menu is already in 1080i.

The "blind" problem I mentioned occurs just sometimes when all cars are rendered at the same time (even in mid-race). It is therefore a kind of rendering slowdown due to high graphical demand. It should have nothing to do with the resolution of my TV, as it works fine with GT4 99.9% of the time. This problem never happens in two car races (as the ones in the Mission Hall), or even under the wet conditions of Tsukuba, where there is indeed some frame rate slow down (but no "blind" effect whatsoever) due to the water spray.

I have also seen too much pixelation on some tracks. Particularily those with many trees (El Capitan, Deep Forest, etc). On the other hand, tracks such as Motegui (stuning under the evening sun), Laguna Seca & High Speed Ring look perfect.

Does anyone here use a 1920 x 1080 display/TV for GT4? If so, are you also encountering the "blind" effect I mentioned?

My kind regards to all.

I haven't seen any of these problems. I am currently running the PS2 through a digital switcher, to a Pioneer Plasma 4340HD. Native is 720p I think, but will display 1080i just fine (actually it's 1125i). I get a funky green flash when the console is switching from 480i to 1080i. But only when I use the PS2. I don't get the same flash with the DVD player (upconverting via Component). I have noticed that the console is being pushed to the limit, however. During the rolling start sequences the cars end up doing jaggy-line. In terms of the pixelation, I don't see much of it. I think it's an issue of how its drawn onto the screen. You can see the same thing if you play MGS3 Snake Eater. In all the forest scenes, you get that grainy, over-sharp detail. It's almost as if the contrast was maxed out. I also get a little interference from something or the other. I get faint diagonal lines cropping up once in a while, but don't know where it's coming from.

I just lower the contrast/sharpness a touch and all is well. I also calibrated a while ago via Avia Pro.

On another thing I noticed: Even in HD mode, the dials/redline indicator aren't glowing super-bright, like CNN/Discovery logos. I think it's great that PD took that into consideration. I was worried at first about possible burn-in, considering that I play GT4 about 5 hrs everyday. I think this and the Orbiter feature ought to take care of the burn-in. So far so good. No ghosting either.

Make no mistake; I am not complaining. The GT4 game experience has been wonderful so far!

 

[Pako]

LCDs are stuck at a certain resolution. That's what he means.

My Sony RP HDTV has a native resolution of 1388x788. I run my computer through it at close to 1:1 pixel ratios at 1304x744 with no overscan. Doesn't the "I" in interlaced mean it used half of the resolution (540x2) to get the 1080? Could this be why most 720p content looks better than 1080i content? The really exciting thing is 1080p! Now that's some true resolution for you.

 

[Buck-O]

What do you mean "can't do real HD, it has to be scaled down"?

1920x1080i is the resolution for proper HD.

Most LCD's do not have the pixels on screen be be able to do that many lines of resolution. Most do not even have enough to do 720P...and of those that do have enough, cant actually do 720P becuase its not supported natively. So it has to be up converted to 1080i, then squished to fit on the lower resolution screen.


Alot of HD content looks like crap on LCD displays.

ED content like DVD's look great though.

 

[Buck-O]

but CRT RPTV's wouldn't stand my use of GT4 at all, it would burn in in just a few months... direct view CRT's don't have that problem (REALLY hard to burn those in), CRT looks best overall, but you forgot to mention that if compared to any 1280x720 fixed pixel display the picture looks rather soft. not a big deal if all you play are ps2 and xbox games because they are usually 480i or 480p games. but if you own a high end PC and plan to use your 400 buck videocard with your CRT, you'll realize that resolution is lacking in comparassion, i own a 720p projector (LCD) and a 30" direct view widescreen sony, contrast ratio is of course a lot better on the CRT, but geometry and resolution can't touch the projector.

so really, for the avarage user a CRT will still provide the best overall results because of the lack of HD material (not that HD looks bad on CRT, it looks amazing.). but saying that CRT is far superior to evry other technology is missleading depending on the application. a PC gamer / desktop user will defenetly benefit more from the added resolution.
and yet, for the avarege joe CRT might not be the most atractive solution just because of best overall picture quality... you forget one thing, size, CRT's are huge. this turns away many potential buyers. i can't wait to see the new "slim" CRT's wich will just be 16" in depth.

Well, i can tell you that from day one, i have had my X-Box, PS2, and GCN hooked up to my RPTV, and i have played games on them at least once a day, for at least an hour or more. I have gone through and replayed GT3 twice in that time, along with plenty of other games with plenty of static images (like PGR2 for example while we are on racing games).

And ive never had a single problem with burn in.


Burn in is more of a myth then anything. And infact in the nearly 2 years ive had my TV, ive had no noticible burn in, only a slight dimming of the picture due to the hours used. However, my firend that bought a Plasma display about 8 months ago, has burn in from 2.35:1 DVD's Its REALLY noticible, and very annoying. And becuase it doesnt effect over 8% of the overall image, its not covered under warrenty.

DLP and LCD on the other hand dont have this problem. And this is why i would like to go with DLP for my next set. Or possibly with JVC's propritory display (which i cant remember the name of off the top of my head), if the price comes down enough.


And as far as size issues go, those of us that have widescreen TV;s for teh RIGHT reasons, dont care about size, and dont need the space saving qualitys that a flat panel would allow.

 

[Buck-O]

Doesn't the "I" in interlaced mean it used half of the resolution (540x2) to get the 1080? Could this be why most 720p content looks better than 1080i content? The really exciting thing is 1080p! Now that's some true resolution for you.

It doesnt mean it uses HALF the resolution, as it means it uses half of the refresh rate, and splits it up to each alternate line.

For instance...

You see your image like this on teh TV

111111111111111
222222222222222
333333333333333
444444444444444
555555555555555
666666666666666

What interlacing does is....

One refresh it goes...

111111111111111

333333333333333

555555555555555


And the next refresh goes...

222222222222222

444444444444444

666666666666666


And your eye puts the two images together and gets...

111111111111111
222222222222222
333333333333333
444444444444444
555555555555555
666666666666666




Each scan is its own seperate image, and it does actually contain 1080 UNIQUE lines of resolution...but the frame rate is low, and there is alot of "jitter" or shake to the picture.


This is why 720P usually is precieved as looking better becuase the motion is more fluid, and has less jitter to it. And the smoothness is precieved as being "sharper" to the eye, and the brain. Even if in reality, its not.

 

[ChristmasGTO]

I just read more about it and this seems like the amazing, perfect solution that I didn't think existed. Thanks a lot for sharing that link. Goodbye $50.

Thank you I searched for 6 hours on it, it was a very tough find for some reason

http://hardware.teamxbox.com/articles/xbox/934/VDigi-Electronics-Enhanced-VDZ3-Review/p1/

that is a Review of the product, it looks like newer versions do in fact support 480i:

"Pros

Performance
Price
VGA ByPass feature
No need of a Microsoft HD Video Pack for 5.1 speaker system
Excellent documentation and technical support
480i mode

Cons

We can’t think of any! "

I cant wait to see how it all turns out, It seriously looks like the ultimate VGA solution for any system, Im VERY excited to see how Resident Evil 4 will look on it



EDIT:
heres a good site to let you know what games are HDTV Compatible or not:
http://www.hdtvarcade.com

have fun glad that I could help!

 

[Pako]

It doesnt mean it uses HALF the resolution, as it means it uses half of the refresh rate, and splits it up to each alternate line.

For instance...

*SNIP*

Great explaination, thanks! Totally makes since.

 

[Sleestack666]

I'm having a problem. I have a Mitsubishi Diamond Scan WS-73907 (73" widescreen rear projection) . It definitely has inputs for 480p and 1080i. When I set the video settings in GT4 to 480p or 1080i, the in game screen shifts all the way to the left and down so that only 30% of the game screen shows. All of the menu screens and movies show up fine but the in game screen falls off the TV screen.

Am I missing something obvious?

 

[bodger]

This stuttering described here at the start of this races when all cars are on-screen for those running the hi-res and progressive scan modes happens in the lowest mode (480i) as well - so I don't think it's a problem which is exclusive to these modes.

I've also noticed another graphical bug in that every so often the screen will have a slightly blurred effect (especially notciable on the rev counter and speedometer) for no apparent reason. After a few seconds it usually rights itself.

 

[saveur2]

I'm having a problem. I have a Mitsubishi Diamond Scan WS-73907 (73" widescreen rear projection) . It definitely has inputs for 480p and 1080i. When I set the video settings in GT4 to 480p or 1080i, the in game screen shifts all the way to the left and down so that only 30% of the game screen shows. All of the menu screens and movies show up fine but the in game screen falls off the TV screen.

Am I missing something obvious?

Have you tried centering the screen via the game option menu? Also, try looking at the TV's screen options.

 

[saveur2]

This stuttering described here at the start of this races when all cars are on-screen for those running the hi-res and progressive scan modes happens in the lowest mode (480i) as well - so I don't think it's a problem which is exclusive to these modes.

I've also noticed another graphical bug in that every so often the screen will have a slightly blurred effect (especially notciable on the rev counter and speedometer) for no apparent reason. After a few seconds it usually rights itself.

I saw the blurring only in GT4 Prologue. GT4 itself doesn't seem to have the problem for me.

Have you seen the screens during 2 player mode? It's awful. The cars look fine, but once you get onto the track, the tracks look terrible....

 

[Buck-O]

I'm having a problem. I have a Mitsubishi Diamond Scan WS-73907 (73" widescreen rear projection) . It definitely has inputs for 480p and 1080i. When I set the video settings in GT4 to 480p or 1080i, the in game screen shifts all the way to the left and down so that only 30% of the game screen shows. All of the menu screens and movies show up fine but the in game screen falls off the TV screen.

Am I missing something obvious?

You need to consult your users manual on this one.

Beucase the set is to old to find a manual on-line (becuase Mitsu thinks that once the new model comes out no one will ever need to download an OLDER models manual anymore )

It may be that one or more sets of your inputs does not accept 480P/1080i. The other thing may be that you have your PS2 hooked up to your DTV input.

The DTV input has the standared Y/Pb/Pr input method, but also accepts R/G/B which requires an H and V set of cables too (Horizontal and Verticle hold sync cables). If the TV by Default is set to RGB, sync on Green in the setup menu, your TV will try to interpolate the Y/Pb/Pr setup as RGB, and when it cant find the Vertical or Horizontal hold, it goes ape **** on you.

So i recemend you try a differnt set of Y/Pb/Pr component inputs, and see if they work better.

 

[bodger]

>saveur2

As far as the 'blurring' is concerned I think we are talking about two different things. The blurring on the tracks you see in two player mode is the result of the lower resolution textures which have bi-linear filtering applied to them (a la N64). To speed things along in two player mode they have simply used lower res textures on the tracks excatly the same as in GT3.

The blurring I'm referring two isn't the same. This is a momentry glitch which I think is related to the filter that is applied to the entire screen when you hit a wall or car. It seems to be applied for a brief second sometimes.

 

[Sleestack666]

Have you tried centering the screen via the game option menu? Also, try looking at the TV's screen options.

I tried centering it, but that didn't even come close to resolving the problem. I'm also pretty sure it isn't the tv. I went through all the screen options with no luck.

I'm starting to think it has something to do with a driver for the PS2 or the DMS4 Pro chip. It won't play any of my DVDs in progressive scan. Unless I'm missing something, it won't even bring it up as an option in the DVD menus when the DVD is stopped. The TV has no problem playing DVDs running from my DVD player in prog. scan. I've read through the manual for each device and did alot of testing with different options but no luck so far.

The TV does seem to be running the game in 480p and 1080i from the 20% of the screen I can see, but both the prog. scan in DVD and game mode seem affected.

I'm using Monster component cables and the game is running fine in 480i, so I'm also assuming it has nothing to do with the cables.

I just got the PS2 so I'll call the premod. company Monday, but I would appreciate any thoughts forum members might have.

 

[Sleestack666]

You need to consult your users manual on this one.

Beucase the set is to old to find a manual on-line (becuase Mitsu thinks that once the new model comes out no one will ever need to download an OLDER models manual anymore )

It may be that one or more sets of your inputs does not accept 480P/1080i. The other thing may be that you have your PS2 hooked up to your DTV input.

The DTV input has the standared Y/Pb/Pr input method, but also accepts R/G/B which requires an H and V set of cables too (Horizontal and Verticle hold sync cables). If the TV by Default is set to RGB, sync on Green in the setup menu, your TV will try to interpolate the Y/Pb/Pr setup as RGB, and when it cant find the Vertical or Horizontal hold, it goes ape **** on you.

So i recemend you try a differnt set of Y/Pb/Pr component inputs, and see if they work better.

Thanks for the suggestions, however, I have tried each of them except for the last. Do you think it is possible that there is a problem with the Monster cables, even though they are transmitting the signal fine in 480i?

Also, do you happen to know if Burnout 3 automatically goes to 480p or you have to do something to activate it? I have it and it runs fien, but I'm not sure that it is running in 480p or i.

Thanks in advance.

 

[spawn9999999]

Also, do you happen to know if Burnout 3 automatically goes to 480p or you have to do something to activate it? I have it and it runs fien, but I'm not sure that it is running in 480p or i.

During the loading sequence before the game starts, hold X and Triangle and a pop-up will come up asking you if you want the game in 480p. Burnout 3 looks SO much better in 480p.

 

[Buck-O]

Thanks for the suggestions, however, I have tried each of them except for the last. Do you think it is possible that there is a problem with the Monster cables, even though they are transmitting the signal fine in 480i?

Also, do you happen to know if Burnout 3 automatically goes to 480p or you have to do something to activate it? I have it and it runs fien, but I'm not sure that it is running in 480p or i.

Thanks in advance.

I dont think there is a problem with the cables.

And their shouldent be a problem with GT4 either...but...obviously somthing screwy is going on.

I cant tell you about burnout 3 becuase...well...i bought it for the XBox, and it looks way better then the PS2 version on general graphics alone, and Progressive scan makes things a bit more polished looking. But on the XBox its 480P from bootup, to game play.

 

[cobragt]

buck, check it out
http://img101.exs.cx/img101/6074/hdtv1ji.jpg
that's from my tv

 

[Sleestack666]

During the loading sequence before the game starts, hold X and Triangle and a pop-up will come up asking you if you want the game in 480p. Burnout 3 looks SO much better in 480p.

Thanks. ' disabled the chip and have Burnout 3 running in 480p.... looks great. Turns out that it is a known BIOS issue with the DMS4 chip. The updated BIOS is available. Hopefully I'll have GT4 up and running in 1080i shortly.

 

[cobragt]

tell us how it works out

 

[Sleestack666]

tell us how it works out

A flash upgrade did the trick. Everything is working beautifully now. 1080i on a 73" rear projection looks amazing... obviously not as clear as tube, LCD or plasma, but, amazing nonetheless.

 

[0100]

Nice glad to hear you have it working. Have fun!!!!!!!!!!

 

[cobragt]

I'm glad everything worked out for you