2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 @ the N-Ring

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\\\M-Spec sends me these PM's because apparently I'm always the aggressor in these debates. Fact is, I post up with intentions of just informing people and commemorating the time set by, perhaps one of the most underestimated performance cars in America.

And I say that this place is filled with too many cynical people because everyone dwells on every little statement I make. Many times has this thread gone off topic because some cynical loser had to pick on my definition of a supercar, or someone had to say something dumb like, "It only beat the RS by 0.1 seconds? How's that special?" Instead of just giving the Vette Z06 its damn props, people would rather argue.

This was never about how badly the Z06 beat the RS or whatever. Many times I've explained what this thread meant. Many times have I tried to put this thread back on topic in a non-hostile way. I've given up on that now.
 
As far as I'm concerned it's a very fast car, but it's not a supercar by my definition, it's too common and mass produced, it's also just a higher spec version of lower down model, the second part affects my opinion on this more than the first, but a supercar isn't all about track performance or speed, the word super doesn't have a link to track performance, a car thats road legal and has that soley in mind is a track day car imo, not a supercar. A supercar is a McLaren SLR, it's also a Ferrari Enzo, both very different, by you're definition FAOLIU05 the SLR surely isn't a supercar, it's a luxury car and doesn't give way to extra's in favour of light weight and better track performance. I don't see a TV Sagaris as a supercar, yet that and the Z06, on paper at least seem to be in the same peformance bracket. The things I look at to define a supercar are as follows....

Performance, this is in comparison to other veryday cars, sportscars and supercars that have recently been made.
Size, it has to be a proper car, not some track monster like the Radical or a Caterham, the Radical could whip the Z06 or Sagaris round any proper track, yet I'd never consider that a supercar, it also has much closer links to motorsport.
Exclusivity, I think a true supercar should be exclusive. If everyone saw 10 Ferrari Enzo's eery day it's lose a lot of it's value and image which leads me to...
Image, Skoda could make a supercar, even by my definition but it'd have to make all the right moves. But then, a Skoda supercar would fail just for the badge, people are very, very image consciouse and while the badge won't decide if it's a supercar or not it can decide if it's successful or not.
And common ties, ie the Corvette, it's a Corvette. The base model is not in any way a supercar, and no matter how fast the top spec model is, it's tied into a non-supercar range which ties in quite strongly with image.

Once again, not being classed as a supercar by MY definitions does not make it a bad car, or a good one for that matter. The Z06 though is a good car.

Going back to the Ring times and the SLR time, the Z06 hasn't beat the SLR, that managed 7'40 in the hands of Klauss Ludwig. Ring times are no way definitive, theres too many variables, for instance the Carrera GT has poste recorded times of 7'40 down to 7'28. I'm waiting to see the Z06 on TopGear, that should be more definitive. I expect it to be similar to the Sagaris's lap time, which is a good thing.

Finally, we don't need to be naming people or nationalities as the people that start these arguments. As far as I'm concerned it all wen't off while the UK was in bed, doesn't matter who started the argument becasue it's over and looking for someone to blame will kick it off again.
 
Finally, we don't need to be naming people or nationalities as the people that start these arguments. As far as I'm concerned it all wen't off while the UK was in bed, doesn't matter who started the argument becasue it's over and looking for someone to blame will kick it off again.
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Nationality has little, if anything, to do with it. I've heard Corvette bashing from plenty of American owners of European cars.
 
I know, theres too much bashing of American cars, or European cars in general on any forums you go to. It's apity because amid all the crap there can be a good discussion going on.
 
Yeah, like I said... The Vette is perhaps one of the most underestimated sportscars in America, and perhaps the world. Nobody wants to give it chance because an American company called Chevrolet produces it, and that good ole American sportscar stereotype is very potent. But when ever the Vette does prove itself, its the most unimpressive thing ever in Automobile history. It's ridiculous.

It seems like nobody can just say, "wow, the Corvette Z06 made a good time."

Instead people have to say, "the Corvette Z06 is fast, but unimpressive in comparison to the Porsche racecar." :rolleyes:
 
In all fairness, over here the C6 is the FIRST Vette thats made a good impression. Even Clarkson said that if it was right hand dirive he couldn't see any reason why it shouldn't do well over here. UInfortunately, nuless they do make it right hand drive, it won't sell too well and not many people will get first hand experience of what it's like and the old Vette's can't turn for **** analogy will continue to be used by thoes too blind to see past the badge. Hell, the Vette's done a good time at the ring, weather Ring times are difinitive or not, it's still done well. So has the Porsche, but whichever is the greater achievment, let's look at this as the first time in Europe, the Vette can be seen as a viable alternative. In the UK, it NEEDS right hand drive or it simply won't sell half as many as it could.
 
FAOLIU05
It seems like nobody can just say, "wow, the Corvette Z06 made a good time."

Instead people have to say, "the Corvette Z06 is fast, but unimpressive in comparison to the Porsche racecar." :rolleyes:
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I don't think anyone has said it isn't a good time. But many of us think its a bit expected, not exceptional. Like we've been saying, the car has a power to weight ratio much greater than the Porsche. Thats why we think its not as "amazing" or "spectacular" as you want us to think. I agree, its a fantastic time at the 'Ring, for sure. But, with 500hp and a weight of just over 3000lbs, it should. Thats all. Great car, great time. But, a "Supercar" it is not to me.

Hilg
 
And really 99% of the people who are going to buy a Z06 isn't going to give a flying rats ass about how it did around a European track. They are buying it because you really can't get that kind of preformance in America for that price and once again you can avoid the Viper.

People who bash the Vette are just idiots who don't know anything about it. And I'm sick of people telling me the car is ancient because it has leaf springs. I don't know if someone said this in the thread but I'm sure it will come up.

Just accept the Z06 is a good car.
 
The car is ancient because it has leaf springs :D. I think most people can accept it's a good car, it's just the first time a Vette's proven it'self in Europe and come up good and I think some people may just need more convincing since all past Vette's haven't coped at all well in Europe. Mind you theres a couple of American cars now that have been tested in Europe and had their suspension setup over here like that Caddy Clarkson had on a few weeks ago, he said it could handle. He didn't think too much of the car though, but he was suprised that it could corner realtively well. It's no coincidence that the American cars that do testing in Europe and have the setting tweaked over here handle better over here.
 
Both the 2004 Z06 and 2005 C6 have out beaten the Viper GTS, Viper SRT-10, 575M Maranello F1, 550 Maranello, 360 Modena, Diablo GT, Diablo SV, 911 Carrera S, 996 GT3, SL55 AMG, and DB7 GT. The Corvette made its mark a while ago.
 
The C6 is only a month or two old over here. You may have to make exeption for me using European referances from time to time. As for the C6 beating thoes cars, I don't know, I do know it's done well on the TopGear track, it didn't beat the 360CS by a long shot, and the Gallardo was faster as was the Exige S2 and Noble but thats to be expected really, they're cars the Z06 should be aiming to beat when it comes to the TopGear track, and be in the TVR's territorty which by the Ring times it should be. The Sagaris and the Tuscan 2 are both very fast on it, the Sagaris is the fastest non-supercar (or supercar priced supercar as some of you might prefer to reffer to it) to lap the track.
 
Well, no **** considering some of those cars didn't have the same tech. at use.

A 2006 car beating a car of the mid 90's isn't suprising at all. They didn't have the same things at hand like they do today.

Your Lamborghinis aren't exactly the best track cars today. They were usually more about the power than the track.
I guarantee you, slap a GT against a C6, and we'll see who "makes its mark."

Lamborghini is company about massive horsepower. Lately, they've been adapting to making their cars on the track perform better. But in the massive V12s have always been about power.

EDIT: And not to mention, no one has ever done a test of those cars in detail. You're just saying they beat them because of a time on a course or too.
Do a full, in-depth test.
Power, speed, braking, slaloms (sp.), and all that.
 
Well the Diable did really handle ****, it was far too big and had too heavy steering to be accurate and it was never meant for racing. But we really don't need to be using that to undermine the C6, it's still beat some good cars from today.
 
live4speed
Well the Diable did really handle ****, it was far too big and had too heavy steering to be accurate and it was never meant for racing. But we really don't need to be using that to undermine the C6, it's still beat some good cars from today.
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Exactly. One of the few Diablos actually built for racing was the GTR, and hell, that car was actually 1 series.

I'm just saying to compare cars of the past to cars of today was rather silly.

Please, an Aston Martin? A company about luxury and just a good amount of performance? A DB7 being beat by a Corvette is no surprise. DB7s your luxury of the supercar.
 
Yeah, I know comparing the C6 to older supercars isn't going to prove anything, but it did a good lap on TopGear and that means something to me. I still didn't beat the TVR Tuscan, which I'm happy about because simply I'm biased but hey, it still did well.
 
live4speed
Yeah, I know comparing the C6 to older supercars isn't going to prove anything, but it did a good lap on TopGear and that means something to me. I still didn't beat the TVR Tuscan, which I'm happy about because simply I'm biased but hey, it still did well.
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I agree. For a Corvette, it did extremely well.
 
Power, speed, braking, slaloms (sp.), and all that.
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Well, in all fairness, with the Nurburgring's layout, you can get some pretty good tests of a car's ability to brake and handle severe esses in addition to raw speed.

It's true that not many actual buyers will care too much how it did (and that applies to many other American cars that have taken the track as well; for example, I already mentioned that I'd adore the Dodge Viper even if it failed to break 9 minutes on the 'Ring).

It honestly doesn't bother me that more people aren't extremely impressed. All that I'm concerned with is the proof that it can at least hold its own. Naturally, I have run across some haters in my day that would look at this time and go "But...pushrods...leaf springs...lack of refinement...love, hate...Yankees...CLOUDS!" *KABOOM!* And I'd be lying through my teeth if I said I wasn't happy to see the stereotype they're blinded by finally shattered, but I won't claim every Porsche/Ferrari/etc. owner is like that or that they should worship the Corvette now.
 
Speaking of Aston Martin, I hope they do some good work with their cars' acceleration in the next few years. IIRC, they've got the horsepower they need, but not quite enough torque at the low end.
 
Elegy
Speaking of Aston Martin, I hope they do some good work with their cars' acceleration in the next few years. IIRC, they've got the horsepower they need, but not quite enough torque at the low end.
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I know, however, I think the DB9 and V12 Vanquish are great. They're doing well, espcially the DB9R, and I'm sure Aston is waiting before they take the Vanquish to its full potental.
 
Elegy
Well, in all fairness, with the Nurburgring's layout, you can get some pretty good tests of a car's ability to brake and handle severe esses in addition to raw speed.

It's true that not many actual buyers will care too much how it did (and that applies to many other American cars that have taken the track as well; for example, I already mentioned that I'd adore the Dodge Viper even if it failed to break 9 minutes on the 'Ring).

It honestly doesn't bother me that more people aren't extremely impressed. All that I'm concerned with is the proof that it can at least hold its own. Naturally, I have run across some haters in my day that would look at this time and go "But...pushrods...leaf springs...lack of refinement...love, hate...Yankees...CLOUDS!" *KABOOM!* And I'd be lying through my teeth if I said I wasn't happy to see the stereotype they're blinded by finally shattered, but I won't claim every Porsche/Ferrari/etc. owner is like that or that they should worship the Corvette now.
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True, but I mean from 60-0, 100-0, etc. etc. I know the 'Ring is perfect to test out the feel of the car (interior), but I base that one on how the reviewers' body is in the seat.
 
I love Aston Martin. Not just my favorite UK manufacturer, but my favorite European manufacturer. Partially because they make such gorgeous machines, and partially because I'm a full-force James Bond fanboy. 👍
 
True, but I mean from 60-0, 100-0, etc. etc. I know the 'Ring is perfect to test out the feel of the car (interior), but I base that one on how the reviewers' body is in the seat.
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Hmm...crap. I was hoping they'd have that information on the website posted at the start of the thread, but they don't have that data yet. 👎
 
Are you kidding, for their weight Aston Martins whip through the gears and the mph. The DB9 hits 60mph in 4.7 and 100mph in around 10.6, the car weighs loads, the C6 does 60 in 4.3 and 100 in 9.9 and it has a much higher power to weight. Astons arn't lacking in power or torque, I don't know where you get that idea tbh. Thats like saying the SLR could do with more when it's actaully plenty fast as it is. Astons are Grand tourers, they're meant to be refined, AND fast, not record breakingly fast, and thats what they are. The Aston DB9 is probably the BEST car on sale right now imo, regardless of prices.
 
live4speed
Are you kidding, for their weight Aston Martins whip through the gears and the mph. The DB9 hits 60mph in 4.7 and 100mph in around 10.6, the car weighs loads, the C6 does 60 in 4.3 and 100 in 9.9 and it has a much higher power to weight. Astons arn't lacking in power or torque, I don't know where you get that idea tbh. Thats like saying the SLR could do with more when it's actaully plenty fast as it is. Astons are Grand tourers, they're meant to be refined, AND fast, not record breakingly fast, and thats what they are. The Aston DB9 is probably the BEST car on sale right now imo, regardless of prices.
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Yes, but a DB7?

1991 Diablo - 3474 lbs. 0-60 - 4 sec.
2000 DB7 Vantage - 4210 lbs. 0-60 - 5 sec. (Impressive for a car like that)
Not in the same era, but a stock DB7 is lighter, but more 0-60.

An SV against a Db7 model though, wouldn't be fair.
 
Cars of the past?
The 360 Modena which is the oldest car in my comparison, and it still is a viable competitor, being only 6 years younger than the 2004 Z06. Big deal! 6 years is nothing. But hey, lets don't forget the Corvette's "ancient" leaf-spring suspension...

And you're mistaken about the Aston Martin DB7 GT. I guess you missed the GT part. It has gone back under the knife for more performance based parts. A good power increase, short shifter, and twin-plate cluctch among those performance based parts. Both SL55 and DB7 GT have advanced performance, along with luxury. Fact is, the Vette can still take them, even with a 100hp disadvantage.

Are you going to use the same luxury excuse for the Viper SRT-10? GTS? 575 F1? GT? SV? 360 Modena? Carrera S?

Once again I have just proven that nobody can just give the Vette credit. There are no excuses McLaren. There are no reasonable excuses.
 
That is good, but I'm pretty certain they can do much better. They'll have to be if they wish to stay competitive against this influx of road cars that are breaking 0-60 in less than 4 seconds. The Viper, the new 'Vettes, the Tuscan S, the Ferraris...the list goes on.
 
Fao, is it comments like these that are getting to you?

I agree. For a Corvette, it did extremely well.
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I don't think he meant this in a malicious way. Most real, honest-to-god haters don't give the Corvette even a slight amount of credit.
 
FAOLIU05
Cars of the past?
The 360 Modena which is the oldest car in my comparison, and it still is a viable competitor, being only 4 years younger than the 2004 Z06. Big deal! 4 years is nothing. But hey, lets don't forget the Corvette's "ancient" leaf-spring suspension...

And you're mistaken about the Aston Martin DB7 GT. I guess you missed the GT part. It has gone back under the knife for more performance based parts. A good power increase, short shifter, and twin-plate cluctch among those performance based parts. Both SL55 and DB7 GT have advanced performance, along with luxury. Fact is, the Vette can still take them, even with a 100hp disadvantage.

Are you going to use the same luxury excuse for the Viper SRT-10? GTS? 575 F1? GT? SV? 360 Modena? Carrera S?

Once again I have just proven that nobody can just give the Vette credit. There are no excuses McLaren. There are no reasonable excuses.
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Get you're head out of you're arse for one second, please. No ones saying the Vette can't handle. No ones being hostile towards it, get a damn grip and stop showing hostility back. The bottom line is a DB7 is a luxury grand tourer, it has 435Bhp, which is not 100 more than the C6. It's based on a 10 year old chassis and it weighs a hell of a lot more. It's not a comparison to be taken seriousely. The Ferrari 360, maybe, but you really should be comparing it to whats out NOW, like the F430, then maybe thats a Z06 car since it's upped the ante a bit in power and speed ect. But stop getting a hard on cos it beat a Diablo GT, Ferrari 575 and an Aston Martin DB7. It's a fast car, you don't need to prove that.
 
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