2008 Belgian Grand Prix

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Isn't it odd that everyone who hates Hamilton says everyone is against them, and that everyone who loves Hamilton says everyone is against them too?

In other, less paranoid news, start of the month goes to Jarno Trulli. From 11th on the grid, he was alongside Kovalinen going into the first corner!

Kovalinen gave us some fantastic racing today, but also made the silliest move of the race - his attempt at passing Webber was never on. He even braked earlier that Mark.

5th and 7th means that the former Minardi team are now equal with the former world champions, Williams.
 
Roo
Isn't it odd that everyone who hates Hamilton says everyone is against them, and that everyone who loves Hamilton says everyone is against them too?

In other, less paranoid news, start of the month goes to Jarno Trulli. From 11th on the grid, he was alongside Kovalinen going into the first corner!

Kovalinen gave us some fantastic racing today, but also made the silliest move of the race - his attempt at passing Webber was never on. He even braked earlier that Mark.

5th and 7th means that the former Minardi team are now equal with the former world champions, Williams.
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Yeah man, I mentioned earlier in thread how I was amazed no-one had talked about Trulli's amazing start, and still no-one did afterwards! (but then, that was because of obvious reasons..)
It is amusing to see the former Minardi team doing so well, just goes to show that backender teams can be turned around. Just needs someone that isn't Tom Walkinshaw.
 
Ardius
No-one said he hasn't ever been penalised, but he has done several things which many would have thought deserve a penalty easily....Adelaide 1994, for example.
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well can you tell me that schumi had a ultimate power to not get a penalty back in adalaide 1994? Ok I know Ferrari and FIA are always in a good relationship but I believe you cant tell the same thing for benetton back in 1994.

"which many would have thought deserve a penalty easily"
did he get a penalty about what he did in monaco 2006 QLF? yes he did and ofcourse there are many of those. but other hand ofcourse he did wriggle out of many penalty I dont deny this.
 
Ardius
Yeah man, I mentioned earlier in thread how I was amazed no-one had talked about Trulli's amazing start, and still no-one did afterwards! (but then, that was because of obvious reasons..)
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Perhaps because the rest of the race got fudged? I don't think he did a single memorable thing after that start..
 
Metar
You do realize that every time your favourite driver is accused of wrongdoings, you see him in a completely innocent light? And remind us of the spy-saga? Or claim that the Hamilton fanboys are drowning you? Thing is, you're the fanboy here.
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If you can honestly say Räikkönen should have given Hamilton room in that corner I find it very hard to take you seriously. He was on the inside line on the right hander and ahead when turning into the left hander. Hamilton had no room, period. He had driven himself into a dead end but instead of biting the bullet and lifting off he decided to take full advantage of the situation.

Metar
What almost everyone here is trying to say is simple: Hamilton had no option, Räikkönen was very aggressive with his lines despite being much slower, and that the position was returned properly, and re-taken legally. When considering just how much Kimi over-drove his car, just look at the next lap, when he managed to run wide once, and spin twice - one of those spins while returning from yet another runoff.
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Since when has backing off been no option? He must have seen that he can't make it through the left hander with the Ferrari alongside him and he could simply have lifted off. He didn't.

You say the position was returned legally. Like it or not, Hamilton got advantage of it because thanks to cutting the corner he got closer to Räikkönen than he could have done by driving normally. And the rules say (at least the last time I checked) that advantage must not be gained from cutting a chicane. Hamilton got advantage, and thus is penalized. If it wasn't like that we'd see a lot of drivers driving straight through several chicanes because lap times would drop dramatically. The line has to be drawn somewhere.

What I still don't get is that people are very upset because a penalty was given for breaking the rules. Would anybody care too much if it was, say, Fisichella and Barrichello involved and Sutil's position was bettered by one because of the penalty? No. But because it's McLaren penalized and Ferrari getting more points it's an immediate scandal.
 
Rainmaster
well can you tell me that schumi had a ultimate power to not get a penalty back in adalaide 1994? Ok I know Ferrari and FIA are always in a good relationship but I believe you cant tell the same thing for benetton back in 1994.

"which many would have thought deserve a penalty easily"
did he get a penalty about what he did in monaco 2006 QLF? yes he did and ofcourse there are many of those. but other hand ofcourse he did wriggle out of many penalty I dont deny this.
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Look, Im not arguing that Schumacher or Ferrari have a "special power" with the FIA. Ive always felt that was silly, but I will admit that it has always been a suspicious thing.
As such, no, Im not going to say Benetton had a special relationship either. All I was pointing out was a move by Schumacher that was not punished, despite general disagreement by many.
This incident with Hamilton is the same but the other way around actually, even several tifosi are disgusted at this display by the FIA.
 
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Greycap, you mention the point, then blankly ignore it. Yes, much of hte fuss is because it's a Ferrari earning a win against a McLaren, in a case where the gains are highly disputable. If it the other way around, with Kimi winning and losing it due to a punishment, I would be equally upset.


You portray Hamilton as a kamikaze who drove in a hopeless attempt (a Coulthard, some might call it) to squeeze himself in. But notice it's only you - because the whole point of being side by side, per definition, is that the drivers still give each other enough room to duke it out between them. Hamilton didn't drive into a dead-end - it's Kimi who turned it into one.
 
Ardius
Look, Im not arguing that Schumacher or Ferrari have a "special power" with the FIA. Ive always felt that was silly, but I will admit that it has always been a suspicious thing.
As such, no, Im not going to say Benetton had a special relationship either. All I was pointing out was a move by Schumacher that was not punished, despite general disagreement by many.
This incident with Hamilton is the same but the other way around actually, even several tifosi are disgusted at this display by the FIA.
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well I dont see anything wrong in that hungary incident. Schumi is covering his position in the race line and he was in front in the first meters of the chicane and he decided to cut the chicane to not make a collision then he shouldnt have let him pass.

I dont see anything wrong in hamilton's incident either.
by any mean if hamilton must get a penalty for that it shouldnt have costed him the race. It's ridiculous.
 
Greycap
Slow down so much he has room again, perhaps? Räikkönen was ahead in that situation and thus the one who could choose his line.
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Unfortunately, that wasn't an option in this instance. The cars are side-by-side with wheels almost interlocked as they approached the second apex of the chicane.
If Lewis simply hits the brakes to back out, Kimi's back left tyre would run right up over Lewis' right front, almost certainly taking the pair of them out of the race.
Lewis' action in avoiding a costly collision for both drivers here is commendable, as is the fact that he immediately let Kimi back through, clearly therefore deliberately not taking advantage of his enforced shortcut.
It's almost like he's been practising on GT5:P online!!! :lol:
 
Greycap
Since when has backing off been no option? He must have seen that he can't make it through the left hander with the Ferrari alongside him and he could simply have lifted off. He didn't.
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If he had lifted off and stuck to the track, Raikkonen would've gone round like a top. By cutting the chicane he avoided having an incident. If you think Hamilton shouldn't have been on the outside, see below:

Greycap
You say the position was returned legally. Like it or not, Hamilton got advantage of it because thanks to cutting the corner he got closer to Räikkönen than he could have done by driving normally.
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So Hamilton shoudn't have tried to pass Raikkonen at all? Raikkonen was covering the inside when Hamilton had to commit to which side he was going to go. Should Hamilton, with the tow he got from Raikkonen being slower out of Stavelot, simply stood on the brakes and said "No, I'm not going to pass Kimi", despite being faster in the changable conditions?

Greycap
Would anybody care too much if it was, say, Fisichella and Barrichello involved and Sutil's position was bettered by one because of the penalty?
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If, say, it was Fisichella, Barrichello and Sutil fighting for the championship, then yes, people would care. If Glock and Webber were fighting for the championship, then more people would care. But they aren't, so they don't.
 
Welcome to F1. 50% racing, 50% politics.

Nonetheless, despite the result, SPA never disappoints from flag to flag. The last few laps was like cage fight between 2 wounded tigers. LOVE IT!
 
+1 to smallhorses
the commentaters always say that when an advantage is gained is when the offender has overtaken the guy in front and not let him repass but i saw hamilton let kimi pass him,unless i was watching an old race.
 
Man fanboy-ism really detracts from an otherwise great F1 forum, quite a shame. 👎
 
If the racers had been reversed i would have felt the same as i do now,i support both drivers,i would of actually liked Kimi to win so he can close up to Lewis and pass massa in the points(i don't think he would have done it now but he would be closer at least).I am just not happy in the way the FIA run the show.
 
Bee
Man fanboy-ism really detracts from an otherwise great F1 forum, quite a shame. 👎
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Precisely who are we talking about here?
I'm not a fanboy:dopey:
 
I have a question ... a lot of people believed that last year, there was a conspiracy afoot involving the FIA and marshals unfairly favouring Lewis Hamilton for the championship. Give that Hamilton just got himself booted back to third overall in the race standings, can anyone still claim that the conspiracy is alive and well?
 
Do you race?
I have a question ... a lot of people believed that last year, there was a conspiracy afoot involving the FIA and marshals unfairly favouring Lewis Hamilton for the championship. Give that Hamilton just got himself booted back to third overall in the race standings, can anyone still claim that the conspiracy is alive and well?
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Who thought that? I thought it was all about the FIA being all against McLaren in everything they do? (As in, i thought that was the conspiracy everyone went on about, not that i actually think the FIA have some conspiracy, despite the suspicion)
 
Ardius
Who thought that? I thought it was all about the FIA being all against McLaren in everything they do? (As in, i thought that was the conspiracy everyone went on about, not that i actually think the FIA have some conspiracy, despite the suspicion)
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Quite a few people, actually; I took a look around the internet and it was quite a common argument that the FIA were favouring Hamilton because they wanted a British champion.
 
Right, on the fanboy topic, I'm not one either; I like Hamilton because he's an exciting aggressive racer, but then I think Raikkonen entirely deserved the title last year after Hamilton made just too many rookie mistakes, and my favourite driver out of the entire pack is Kubica, who's just pure class on wheels. It's just frustrating that an artificial and unnecessary penalty like this should change the result of such a fantastic race, when clearly the driver who drove the best race won it and did nothing in the incident in question to merit losing two places.
 
AdamW
Right, on the fanboy topic, I'm not one either; I like Hamilton because he's an exciting aggressive racer, but then I think Raikkonen entirely deserved the title last year after Hamilton made just too many rookie mistakes, and my favourite driver out of the entire pack is Kubica, who's just pure class on wheels. It's just frustrating that an artificial and unnecessary penalty like this should change the result of such a fantastic race, when clearly the driver who drove the best race won it and did nothing in the incident in question to merit losing two places.
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My opinion exactly, other then I'm not really a fan of Hamilton just extremely admire his talent and aggression. 'pure class on wheels', true lol!
 
GT4 genius
My opinion exactly, other then I'm not really a fan of Hamilton just extremely admire his talent and aggression. 'pure class on wheels', true lol!
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He's often too aggresive and doesnt play for points.
 
Loved every moment of the weekend except the decision to punish Lewis Hamilton. Even SPA Qualifying was better than the Valencia GP. Great to see the drivers and teams showing their skills on this testing track - one for the DVD burner.

I did feel Lewis was a bit hasty though, as at the end of 4th to last lap he made a mistake at the bus stop chicane that put him two seconds behind but he then hauled Raikkonen in again and nosed past him before the return of the bus stop, so I think Lewis could of easily taken Kimi on the pit straight or heading up to Les Combes by just seeing how much quicker he was when it went greasy and getting wetter by the moment or even let Kimi have a few car lengths considering how keen the Stewards can be.

Lewis just needs more experience, his overall driving ability is second to none imo.
 
Alex.
He's often too aggresive and doesnt play for points.
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True, but we are they spectators we are suppose to like that. Had Hamilton have played for points today he would have never chased after Raikkenon before the rain. He would have sat back and been happy with a safe 2nd, but he didnt he knew he could take the battle to Kimi, and he did. And that is something that F1 needs, not drivers who are sitting there calculating the points as the drive round in their comfort zones.
 
Decisions post-race should never affect the podium winners, because if an action was so drastically offensive, they would've penalized them during the race, regardless of time left. If anything, a 5 grid spot penalty for the next race or SOMETHING would be appropriate, but that's "if anything."

Personally, I don't think this is that great of an offense, sure he went off track, but why not penalize Kimi for 'blocking' half a lap later while we're at it.

I mean if the FIA is going to do a 25 second penalty for this. Why not go back to Brazil last year. Penalize BMW for being underweight, and give Lewis the world championship.
 
STLbarcelona5
Decisions post-race should never affect the podium winners, because if an action was so drastically offensive, they would've penalized them during the race, regardless of time left. If anything, a 5 grid spot penalty for the next race or SOMETHING would be appropriate, but that's "if anything."

Personally, I don't think this is that great of an offense, sure he went off track, but why not penalize Kimi for 'blocking' half a lap later while we're at it.

I mean if the FIA is going to do a 25 second penalty for this. Why not go back to Brazil last year. Penalize BMW for being underweight, and give Lewis the world championship.
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The difference last year was that altering the standings would have alterd the outcome of the championship. And if you looked at McLaren's attempts to have the offending drivers punished, something really stuck out: of the four drivers, Kubica, Heidfeld nd Rosberg all finished ahead of Hamilton, and all three were named in McLaren's inquiry. But Kazuki Nakajima, who I believe also had a similarly-illegal car, finished behind Hamilton, and yet had no action brought against him. To me, McLaren weren't trying to have those drivers disqualified because they'd broken the rules, they were trying to have them disqualified because it would benefit one of their drivers.

I believe the rules clearly state that if a driver commits an infringement - like crossing a chicane - after a certain race distance has been completed, penalties can be added after the race has ended. Because if you cast your mind back to Silverstone a few years ago, Michael Schumacher effectively took a stop-go penalty after he had won the race.
 
Okay, that was really unnecessary FIA. 👎 Why bring a black man down when he has done no wrong? Okay, not to be racist here but ever since Lewis entered McLaren last year there has been a lot of s*** happened to them. If you looked at McLaren a few years back, they weren't even being penalized for something stupid like this. I guess you could never trust anyone these days...... :guilty:

Anyhow, I really hope the appeal from McLaren would get into the FIA's head. If not, I'll really be surprised what will happen when they are in Monza. Just think of all the fans there booing Massa for that free win...... :sick: (yeah, in my dreams)
 
Whoa! Welcome back to GTPlanet, Eagle! Haven't seen you in years!

News events spark trends. There was a controversial call at the end of the BYU/Washington game that ended up costing Washington a win. Here, a controversial call made by the officials denied Hamilton the win when he overshot a corner on the penultimate lap. I didn't see the race (usual with European events), but I did see the highlights. From what I understand, this move wasn't like Alex Zanardi's infamous pass at Laguna Seca in (then) CART in 1996. I can't remember the incident well enough to say I have an expert analysis on this situation.

Pending appeals, Maasa won at Belgium.



Up next is one of my personal favorite race tracks- Monza and the Grand Prix of Italy. Monza to Ferrari is like Fenway Park to the Boston Red Sox- home field advantage. Don't even think about racing Monza unless your engine can hold up and endure on this amazing course. And in two weeks after Monza, it's another race I'm excited for- Singapore. This is going to be a fun month for me as far as F1 tracks go.
 

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