2008 Grand Prix Of Germany - Hockenheim Returns -

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What was Massa at?? That was the worst defence I've seen in along time, I've seen back makers hold leaders up better!
 
What a great battle we have between the four championship points leaders... Masa vs Hamilton and Kimi vs Kubica and only 10 laps to go! 👍

BTW: Great pass by Hamilton on Masa, followed by bad mistake on Masa's part.
 
That'll be "no" then.

:lol:

McLaren have dodged the bullet on this one, but it seems that LH staying out during the safety car was a wise move, even if it required him to pull off two great passes to retake the lead. Awesome stuff 👍
 
Stupid me here thinking that team orders were forbidden, and that McLaren lets the drivers battle for the positions.

First the camera shows Dennis at the pit wall, then zooms in on a radio button he pushes, and just seconds later Kovalainen misses the racing line and the hairpin apex by about half a mile, practically parks on the outside of the corner, and lets Hamilton past. No overly late braking, no tyres smoking, nothing. Just a very visible filling of a team order.

I admit it was tactically the right thing to do but still, it could have been done with a little less transparency seeing how much Dennis himself criticized Ferrari for the same thing back in the Schumacher days.
 
What are you talking about? Ron was talking to LH to say, "Come on, Lewis! You can pass that Finnish bloke! Put your foot down, man!"... (OK then, maybe not!) :p

I think the proof of the pudding is that LH then went on to pass both Massa and Piquet, and Kovaleinen didn't... now if LH and HK were 1 and 2, then team orders would be unjustified... but in this case, it was perfectly justified IMO...
 
Stupid me here thinking that team orders were forbidden, and that McLaren lets the drivers battle for the positions.

First the camera shows Dennis at the pit wall, then zooms in on a radio button he pushes, and just seconds later Kovalainen misses the racing line and the hairpin apex by about half a mile, practically parks on the outside of the corner, and lets Hamilton past. No overly late braking, no tyres smoking, nothing. Just a very visible filling of a team order.

I admit it was tactically the right thing to do but still, it could have been done with a little less transparency seeing how much Dennis himself criticized Ferrari for the same thing back in the Schumacher days.

Thats very true. I dont mind team orders. If I was Ron I would have done the same thing. But what I dont see is why he should be hipocritical about it. I'd even go as far as to say it should be legalised but I know the majority wouldnt be happy about that.


For the first time I'm going to say it: A truely brilliant drive by Hamilton, he really is one of the best. ITVs exagerated boasting may be coming true:lol::confused:.
 
It could be that Kovalainen just let him by on his own conscience? Team orders are banned, so if he spoke to Kova to tell him to let Lewis through, the race directors would know about it.


Lewis Hamilton - Too good for strategical screw ups. (Edit: Damn swear filter)

The safety car made that a decent race. Made it a good race for Piquet and Heidfeld too. They would have been mid-low field otherwise. Again, I think Kova needed to do more...
 
Cograts Hamilton...

However for me the real star was Piquet, who needed a strong finish to keep his F1 hopes alive, and P2 is far better than just strong... especially for him and Renault. Sure, luck played a massive role in his placement, but still avery solid performance none the less. Alonso handily being beaten by the #2 Renault driver... someone many thought would be kicked off the team for his very poor performances.... something tells me things are going to get ugly in the Renault camp.



Heifled to get pass Massa now. I dont think Massa will be at Ferrari for many more years.

He did beat Kimi though, and is second in the championship.

I realize he is a bit of a hot head, but I think Ferrari would be foolish to drop him based on his over all results... especially considering his many highlights from this year alone.

If they do however, I imagine there will be quite a few F1 teams that would love to have Masa on board.
 
Glock should be rewarded :) race was extremely boring until his crash.

Alonso what a champion! full of mistakes. I'm happy to see the real alonso.

How can ron dennis be an idiot again? He is full of experience but he keeps doing same mistakes over and over again!

congrats to hamilton,piquet and heidfeld
 
However for me the real star was Piquet, who needed a strong finish to keep his F1 hopes alive, and P2 is far better than just strong... especially for him and Renault. Alonso handily being beaten by the #2 Renault driver... someone many thought would be kicked off the team for his very poor performances. Something tells me things are going to get ugly in the Renault camp.
Piquet got 2nd by luck. He was 14th just after making his one and only stop when the safety car came out. He ended up in 2nd when the others pitted. He did hold his own after the safety car came back in, but he was nowhere before then.
 
Some very disappointing driving and ethics by some drivers today, some magic drives, and some bloody good strategic calls - finally, the top was the exciting bit with Hamilton, Piquet and Massa dueling.. Sadly, the midfield was very disappointing.

Alonso got handed the short end of the stick on every single three-fight he was in - in his counter against Kimi, Vettel's unusually-early braking stopped him. In the Trulli-Raikkonen-Alonso trio at the start, it was the same story again. Vettel's pushing in the pitlane wasn't very fair, either - no matter how hard you drive your car, the one already out of the pits has the right-of-way if you emerge side by side. And the spin... :(

Kazuki Nakajima was way off his usual self, so that one was disappointing too..

Everything started to go well, but then ffs.. The T clock crash maded all to go pit, and AGAIN the ferrari made it wrong.. for the kimi i mean.. why they just didnt do like mclaren? One go to pit and other go little bit later.. the hole race goed totally..grm.. wrong.. lets see if something miracle still gonna happen.. otherwise this race goed just like last one

Because not every strategy works with every car. Hamilton is notorious for being hard on his tyres - perhaps McLaren suspected his tyres wouldn't hold for 35 laps? His car was superior throughout the race, and he had the fuel until it was only 17 laps to go - perhaps Kimi didn't have that much fuel?

Why is Massa being held up by a "heavy" Piquet? One stopping means Piquet was heavy at one point, but he's now got fuel to the finish exactly the same as Massa....

Not only that, but Massa wasn't gaining more than a tenth per lap! Usually, Massa's gains were in the 0.1-0.02s range...

BTW: Great pass by Hamilton on Masa, followed by bad mistake on Masa's part.

I was very disappointed by that move - on both ends. Firstly Massa, who defended on the outside - exactly where you can't defend - and allowed Hamilton to get into position in the first place. Second irk was Lewis, who, when he already had the position (side by side at the Spitzkehre is almost always a position) just drove a normal line, bumping Massa wide. And to think people criticized Alonso for that very thing at Spa's La Source last year.

Stupid me here thinking that team orders were forbidden, and that McLaren lets the drivers battle for the positions.

First the camera shows Dennis at the pit wall, then zooms in on a radio button he pushes, and just seconds later Kovalainen misses the racing line and the hairpin apex by about half a mile, practically parks on the outside of the corner, and lets Hamilton past. No overly late braking, no tyres smoking, nothing. Just a very visible filling of a team order.

I don't know what feed you were watching, but they showed none of that on my end. First off, to run wide, you don't necessarily have to lock the brakes. Second, no teammate ever would block his teammate if the latter has a reasonable chance of winning while he doesn't - friendly teammates usually let the other one pass if he's on a different strategy. Third, pro-Finn conspiracy again? Fact is, Heikki was slower throughout the race, while Hamilton was overtaking left and right - and won.

He did beat Kimi though, and is second in the championship.

I realize he is a bit of a hot head, but I think Ferrari would be foolish to drop him based on his over all results... especially considering his many highlights from this year alone.

Bingo. Massa may have his silly moments, but doesn't everyone? Fact is, his errors were highlighted so much more - and he's still 2nd in the championship. As usual, the numbers speak for themselves - in Ferrari's place, I wouldn't mind having someone like Massa, considering he's 2nd in the standings and not behind his teammate.

How can ron dennis be an idiot again? He is full of experience but he keeps doing same mistakes over and over again!

What mistake? It may not have been the safest thing to do, but Hamilton still won. Haug told RTL commentators that by their calculations, it was the best way for Lewis - and that otherwise, he couldn't have won it.

Piquet got 2nd by luck. He was 14th just after making his one and only stop when the safety car came out. He ended up in 2nd when the others pitted. He did hold his own after the safety car came back in, but he was nowhere before then.

True, it's Symmond's podium. He called him in just before the crash - the sort of epic strategic calls usually reserved to NASCAR. Piquet should give him the trophy! :p
 
Another race, another strong performance by Hamilton. 👍 He was a full second faster than Massa after his second stop.... :eek: He was clearly on form again after his splendid win in Silverstone, and Mercedes would be happy to win in Hockenheim in 10 years. As for Piquet, I think he deserved credit for his drive. Even when he was 17 in qualifying, lady luck smiled upon him and he has proved critics wrong by finishing 2nd, while Alonso was in 11th. This should be the turning point for Piquet, just like Heikki did last year. 👍
 
Piquet got 2nd by luck. He was 14th just after making his one and only stop when the safety car came out. He ended up in 2nd when the others pitted. He did hold his own after the safety car came back in, but he was nowhere before then.

I understood that, (I was watching the race too you know) :) which is why I also edited my post in case someone took an issue with my praise... but you missed it:

Cograts Hamilton...

However for me the real star was Piquet, who needed a strong finish to keep his F1 hopes alive, and P2 is far better than just strong... especially for him and Renault. Sure, luck played a massive role in his placement, but still avery solid performance none the less. Alonso handily being beaten by the #2 Renault driver... someone many thought would be kicked off the team for his very poor performances.... something tells me things are going to get ugly in the Renault camp.

BTW: Congrats to Heidfeld as well for pulling of a sub 1:16 lap to take the fastest lap prize. 👍

For the first time I'm going to say it: A truely brilliant drive by Hamilton, he really is one of the best. ITVs exagerated boasting may be coming true:lol::confused:

For me it was the last week in the BGP that Hamilton truly showed me that he not only had amazing car control, but showed a lot more patience and control then he had shown in any previous GP. 👍

Then again, he had an incredibly solid first half performance in 2007... and that all got wiped out with some really bad choices at the end of the season.


I was very disappointed by that move - on both ends. Firstly Massa, who defended on the outside - exactly where you can't defend - and allowed Hamilton to get into position in the first place. Second irk was Lewis, who, when he already had the position (side by side at the Spitzkehre is almost always a position) just drove a normal line, bumping Massa wide. And to think people criticized Alonso for that very thing at Spa's La Source last year.
Very good point. 👍


Ah well... that was not only a great race, but quite entertaining as well.... now I can enjoy the end of stage 15 of the Tour de France as they begin their ride over the grand Alps and see if Greg Norman can hold on to win the British Open one more time for old time's sake. :)
 
So, anyone figured out yet why Button didn't follow the other lapped cars when they passed the SC? :confused:
 
Bee
So, anyone figured out yet why Button didn't follow the other lapped cars when they passed the SC? :confused:
He had delusions of grandeur and he was trying to forget the fact that he'd been lapped.

Button
I'm not with all those other losers. Look at them. What are they like? Lapped. Hahahahaha :(
 
Just bloody good luck, and a perfect call by teamboss Pat Symmonds: He sent Piquet in for fuel to the finish just after Glock's epic crash, yet before the safety-car was announced. As a result, he was shuffled forward as everyone stopped, and even led for an extended period of time.


Another question - is it just me, or is Alonso cursed with the pitstops? Usually, it was just a stupid strategy - but this time, on the same strategy as Trulli, he came out just where Vettel and Glock rejoined. That's some epic bad luck right there.
 
Can't say I saw any McLaren team orders in that race. All I saw was Ron probably reminding Kovalainen that Lewis was going much quicker, and that it'd be in the best interests of both of them if they didn't hold each other up.

Well done to Lewis and Piquet. Some brilliant passes by Hamilton once again 👍
 
I'd have to say that Hamilton was brilliant today and he knew that he had the pace since Q.
Good decision for not pitting though he could have finished third if massa's car wasn't that bad at the end but he really showed a lot of his potentials today.
Piquet as he said in press conf. he was just lucky but not bad for being 17th on the starting Grid to finish on the podium.
 
Bummer about Greg Norman, and especially Oscar Pereiro, but great TdF finish... any way:

Who also thinks that Ferrari are making a lot of mistakes (bad decisions) ?

Quite... but it is making for a very close race for the championship among four drivers from three different teams. 👍
 
:odd: That pass Hamilton made on Massa was legal?

Yes


I'm disappointed by the performance of Massa, Kimi and Alonso. But it seems like the Ferrari could have just been truly slower around this track. Vettel was lucky that Alonso didn't pull a Coulthard. At least, Piquet's 2nd place was pretty cool.
 
:odd: That pass Hamilton made on Massa was legal?

Yes. Why exactly wouldn't it be?

He had both the line and the position, given that it was Massa that had to yield. Yes the did bump slightly, but it certainly wasn't the only passing manoeuvre to play out that way today.


Regards

Scaff
 
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