2008 Montreal Grand Prix

[mustang245]

Alonso will fall before Hamilton does.

That's rich! Be sure to hold your breath...
If he falls, he'll have two world titles to fall on. Be sure to pick up Lewis Hamilton's book, 'My Story'. I hear that London book stores are practically giving them away. Epic failure? I'm the original Hamilton 'hater' for no good reason, now I have oh so many... I enjoy watchihg him self-destruct, he's doing Alonso's job better than Fernando could do. McLaren chose him over Hamilton, now they must live with it. Fernando said it best recently, "McLaren doesn't posses winning mentality". JPM, Raikonnen, Alonso now Hamilton. I suppose Lewis has something the others do not?

 

[Hun200kmh]

👍👍👍 Kubica and BMW (maiden win for both, and a truly deserved one)

👍👍 Coulthard (good to see him up there, I always liked the guy)

👍 Massa (for his race and recovery)
👍 Raikkonen (for his coolness after being hit by LH)

👎 Alonso (I guess it must be hard and frustrating to be a top driver driving a bad car, but since you have to, do it without silly rookie mistakes)

👎 👎 Kovalainen and/or McLaren (how can a Mclaren car be a possible winner and the other one finish ninth?)

👎 👎 👎 Lewis Hamilton (I almost feel sorry for the guy because it was just a split second stupid mistake, but you can't have those when you're running a top car in F1)


AND


👎 👎 👎
👎 👎 👎
👎 👎 👎

... to blind fanboyism

 

[Appie]

That's rich! Be sure to hold your breath...
If he falls, he'll have two world titles to fall on. Be sure to pick up Lewis Hamilton's book, 'My Story'. I hear that London book stores are practically giving them away. Epic failure? I'm the original Hamilton 'hater' for no good reason, now I have oh so many... I enjoy watchihg him self-destruct, he's doing Alonso's job better than Fernando could do. McLaren chose him over Hamilton, now they must live with it. Fernando said it best recently, "McLaren doesn't posses winning mentality". JPM, Raikonnen, Alonso now Hamilton. I suppose Lewis has something the others do not?

So whats with the Hamilton hate? Did he killed your dog or something? Ur just being unreasonable and your blinded by kissing the ass of Alonso

 

[Metar]

👎 Alonso (I guess it must be hard and frustrating to be a top driver driving a bad car, but since you have to, do it without silly rookie mistakes)

Erm, what rookie mistakes? Cracking up and spinning after 20+ laps of trailing a heavily-fueled car, while your own brakes are getting mushy?
At the time, his only change of points was to pass Heidfeld - Heidfeld was slow enough for Alonso to come out of the pits outside of the points - so it wasn't as if he Alonso risked any real points, either.

 

[Roo]

I suppose Lewis has something the others do not?

He's got something Fernando hasn't: 38 points.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Erm, what rookie mistakes? Cracking up and spinning after 20+ laps of trailing a heavily-fueled car, while your own brakes are getting mushy?

Yep.

If it was Piquet Jr. I wouldn't be surprised, but I didn't expect that from Alonso.

 

[Metar]

Yep.

If it was Piquet Jr. I wouldn't be surprised, but I didn't expect that from Alonso.

By that token, Kimi's mistakes in Australia were rookie mistakes? Every single spin was a rookie mistake?

He drove a lighter car right on the limit for quite a while, attempting to get past Heidfeld. Many other drivers spun when they hit the marbles, too - are they all rookie mistakes? It's just a spin.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Call it just a "unprovoked mistake" if you like, or if you just dislike it being called a "rookie" one. Call it just "mistake" if you like. Call it even "simple, understandable, mistake". Whatever.

 

[homeforsummer]

Really?!? Could've fooled me... it's been fanboy central here since the race finished.

You're right, considering some of the stupid replies since I posted that, I revoke my original comment Which leads me onto this...

AND

👎 👎 👎
👎 👎 👎
👎 👎 👎

... to blind fanboyism

+1

 

[mustang245]

He's got something Fernando hasn't: 38 points.

... and an arguably much better car. Round 7 and only 38 points? He should be leading soundly now with Fernando out of the way. Interestingly enough, Robert would welcome the chance to team up with Nando at BMW... I'll let you find that gem on your own, me being a "bloody idiot" and "fanboy" and all, my links couldn't be trusted, eh? But I'll say one thing or maybe two, a true fan(boy) never quits his driver no matter what, a spectator merely chooses another when things aren't going well. Yes, I do follow Alonso blindly... hit 40 and you'll take any source of passion you can get! We have the 'Tifosi' and a nation of fan-atical Spaniards, more or less, (courtesy of Alonso). All passionate 'believers'. Life is dull without passion, so call me fanboy all you like, I shall never grow up as long as I have passion. Fernando REMOVED BY MOD Alonso 2x WDC!!

 

[Scaff]

I have an idea, its a great one.

How about we all calm down and carry out these discussions without resorting to flame wars, petty insults, swearing and other AUP violations.

Sound like a good idea?

I certainly hope so, because currently I'm holding back from even posting in the F1 threads because I know that I will end up (and have) handing out warnings and infractions, and do not want bias to appear to be the motivation.

Quite frankly I am fed up with the petty bickering that belies the age of some of you, its perfectly possible to be a fan of a driver and/or team without insulting other drivers. Its even more possible (and required by the AUP) to be respectful of other members and the opinions they hold (no matter how much you may disagree with those opinions).

Please all of you take note of this.


Scaff

 

[Bram Turismo]

Please tell me you're not taking the mickey as I'm about to explain it, and if you ARE taking the mickey, I'm about to look VERY silly indeed: Mrs. Lewis Hamilton.

Murray’s last race commentating for ITV was the 2001 USGP IIRC.

Woops I thought he didn't quit untill recently since I found this video on the internet:




Well, I don't recieve BBC, so I couldn't know 👍



*EDIT*

Scaff: +1, this thread is growing way too fast with pointless arguing between some. I mean, 13 pages of posting and arguing in 2 days?!

Oh well, I'm staying safely out of this by just saying that Kubica did an outstanding job 👍

 

[Alex.]

He's got something Fernando hasn't: 38 points.

As well as the car to get him 38 points. Put Lewis in a renault and nando in a mclaren and Nando would be on more.

 

[Lotrzyna]

Congratulations to my compatriot Robert Kubica perfect driving, BIG race.
Finally I could hear Polish anthem after F1 race !!
Too bad it was done after Hamilton and Raikonen crash but Kubica could even be first after those PITs by top drivers - head to head with Rikonen, Hamilton behind them. Now the last thing I'm waiting for is Kubica #1 Hamilton or Raikonen or Massa #2 #3 #4 but after no penalty start - which means that I think and hope that Kubica will win in France too

 

[Roo]

... and an arguably much better car. Round 7 and only 38 points? He should be leading soundly now with Fernando out of the way.

And so should Massa, or Raikkonen, or maybe even Kovalinen. It's a close championship - closer than at this time last year, and we all know how narrow the winning margin was then - and I'd much rather see that than a dominant Brit. After 7 rounds, the top 4 are covered by 7 points. This is a good thing.

Interestingly enough, Robert would welcome the chance to team up with Nando at BMW... I'll let you find that gem on your own, me being a "bloody idiot" and "fanboy" and all, my links couldn't be trusted, eh?

Don't look at me, I never called you either of those things, nor anything else for that matter.

 

[livemusic]

Very entertaining race, one of the best of this season so far. Alonso's performance was impressive, too bad he screwed up. I hope Nelsinho to do better at the next races since he knows the circuits already, it's his chance to prove he should have a seat in F1 next season. And go Massa!

 

[PeterJB]

After 7 rounds, the top 4 are covered by 7 points. This is a good thing.

Does this mean that after 18 rounds the top 4 will be covered by 18 points?!! It could happen!

 

[Sureboss]

I think Kovalainen has to improve his results, 14/15 points from 7 races isn't good enough for someone in a McLaren, yes, he has had bad luck, but he has to do better. Carries on like this, it will be his only season at McLaren, or at least it should be.

 

[PeterJB]

Why did you put '14/15'?

 

[Greycap]

I think Kovalainen has to improve his results, 14/15 points from 7 races isn't good enough for someone in a McLaren, yes, he has had bad luck, but he has to do better. Carries on like this, it will be his only season at McLaren, or at least it should be.

As said very well earlier in this thread:

Melbourne: Safety-car pitstops sent him back.
Barcelona: the McLaren failed on him, sent him flying into the wall
Istanbul: Early flat tyre sent him to the rear.
Monaco: Started from the pitlane, electronics failure.

Yet his pace was consistently equal with Hamilton.

In other words, make that 3 races. The ones in which his chances weren't screwed by reasons he had no no control over. If you know how to control luck please tell me and the rest of the world too, we could use that skill. Kovalainen has also been in the worst crash of the year. Yet you want to fire him because he's not matching Hamilton and his unbelievable luck. Oh well, I'm sure he would do extremely well, for example, at Heidfeld's seat - as Heidfeld must be fired too because he's losing to his team mate, right?

I think it's safe to say the arguing isn't going to stop until the Hamilton camp admits their guy is not divine, then the anti-Hamilton camp can admit he's a good driver. Which he undoubtedly is, just not quite as perfect as he's believed by some to be.

 

[Motominded]

I have an idea, its a great one.

How about we all calm down and carry out these discussions without resorting to flame wars, petty insults, swearing and other AUP violations.

Sound like a good idea?

I certainly hope so, because currently I'm holding back from even posting in the F1 threads because I know that I will end up (and have) handing out warnings and infractions, and do not want bias to appear to be the motivation.

Quite frankly I am fed up with the petty bickering that belies the age of some of you, its perfectly possible to be a fan of a driver and/or team without insulting other drivers. Its even more possible (and required by the AUP) to be respectful of other members and the opinions they hold (no matter how much you may disagree with those opinions).

Please all of you take note of this.


Scaff

But people like us are what drives the sport. Granted calling other posters out is unnecessary but calling out a driver for something we disagree with is a right we get as being fans of the sport. So i respectfully disagree with you on some points.

Motominded

 

[Scaff]

But people like us are what drives the sport. Granted calling other posters out is unnecessary but calling out a driver for something we disagree with is a right we get as being fans of the sport. So i respectfully disagree with you on some points.

Motominded

Please re-read my post again.

I have no issue with anyone calling into question the actions of a driver or discussing the conduct of a driver. However pointless insult at a driver for no good reason (which has happened a number of time sin this thread already) simply starts pointless arguments.

Discuss the actions of the drivers, your interpretations of their ability and conduct all you want, just don't insult driver 'x' for the sake of it. Its for that very reason I said "its perfectly possible to be a fan of a driver and/or team without insulting other drivers", which doesn't say don't discuss drivers and their actions, rather asking for the pointless insults to stop.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Motominded]

Please re-read my post again.

I have no issue with anyone calling into question the actions of a driver or discussing the conduct of a driver. However pointless insult at a driver for no good reason (which has happened a number of time sin this thread already) simply starts pointless arguments.

Discuss the actions of the drivers, your interpretations of their ability and conduct all you want, just don't insult driver 'x' for the sake of it.

Regards

Scaff

i see, i miss understood.

 

[Earth]

Hopefully BMW can keep their pace up. My interest in Formula 1 will come back if someone other then McLaren or Ferrari has a chance to win or is even the favorite on a consistant basis, and not one weekend where the front runners crash out

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

If Raikkonen doesn't get a penalty for taking out Sutil, then Hamilton shouldn't get a penalty for taking out Raikkonen.

Apparantly I'm wrong:

Yes, because the two events were entirely different circumstances.

Not only that, but as has already been pointed out, the whole point of the FLASHING red lights at the exit from pit lane is for safety reasons. Violating this is a clear infraction of the rules and the safety of the other drivers.

Kimi didn't break any rules, in fact everyone pretty much unanimously has agreed that he displayed remarkable car control to keep his car off the wall when he lost grip going over a small damp spot on the road.

You’re also comparing an accident at the fastest part of a race to an idiotic driver error at pit lane speeds.

Really, the two events couldn't be much different... which is why one resulted in a penalty while the other did not.


Heck, if anyone deserved a penalty for reckless driving during the Monaco GP it should have been Alonso for making what arguabley was the worst pass attempt ever in an F1 race over the last ten years are so:

Nearly? I think you mean nearly caused a pile-up as it did cause a big jam:

Anatomy of a 'Tool Move'

​

Ah man, I'm waiting for some YouTube clips to work again, I haven't had the chance to follow the race

Do they not repeat F1 coverage on TV in Norway?

For those in the US, SPEED TV will be rebroadcasting full coverage of the Canadian GP this Wednesday.

 

[homeforsummer]

I think it's safe to say the arguing isn't going to stop until the Hamilton camp admits their guy is not divine, then the anti-Hamilton camp can admit he's a good driver. Which he undoubtedly is, just not quite as perfect as he's believed by some to be.

Okay, I'll set the ball rolling - Hamilton isn't divine. He's a bloody good driver, but not beyond the realms of making mistakes, and silly ones at that.

I think two things fuel the Hamilton fire - one is the UK press bigging him up big time, to a ridiculous degree. Comparisons with Senna and Schumacher are foolish, because he simply hasn't been on this Earth long enough for a valid comparison to be made.

The second are all the people who, for whatever reason, have an irrational dislike of Lewis not related to the over-hyped media coverage. One batch are the Alonso supporters, who probably dislike Lewis as much as Hamilton supporters dislike Fernando thanks to last year. The other batch are other people from all nationalities, who dislike him for a multitude of reasons (not all of which are honourable, unfortunately). It's the constant barrage from these people that's akin to poking a bear with a stick - it's only a matter of time before the Hamilton supporters will get sick of it and attack the doubters.

My comment earlier about this forum being a little more considered in their responses than the F1 group on facebook was because having been on that group recently, it's terrible to see some of the arguements and comments aimed at Hamilton, some of which stray perilously close to race and nationality. At least people here are basing their assumptions on actions on the race track (or I hope they are).

So to conclude - it would be foolish to underestimate Lewis' talent. He's undoubtably made a big impact in F1 and his skill is without question. At the same time, the car has to take some of the praise for his performance, but then this has been the case for virtually any F1 driver. If you put Kimi, Alonso, Schumacher or any top F1 driver in a Force India they'd shine, but they'd certainly have difficulty running at the sharp end.

So can we stop with the "Hamilton is an idiot" comments, the irrelevant comparison to his dad crashing a Porsche, and all of the fanboyish "my driver is better than your driver" comments? 👍

 

[Sureboss]

As said very well earlier in this thread:

In other words, make that 3 races. The ones in which his chances weren't screwed by reasons he had no no control over. If you know how to control luck please tell me and the rest of the world too, we could use that skill. Kovalainen has also been in the worst crash of the year. Yet you want to fire him because he's not matching Hamilton and his unbelievable luck. Oh well, I'm sure he would do extremely well, for example, at Heidfeld's seat - as Heidfeld must be fired too because he's losing to his team mate, right?

I think it's safe to say the arguing isn't going to stop until the Hamilton camp admits their guy is not divine, then the anti-Hamilton camp can admit he's a good driver. Which he undoubtedly is, just not quite as perfect as he's believed by some to be.

I didn't say I wanted to fire him, I said if he carries on like this he won't be in the team. If he finishes 18 races (or is it 19?) with only 40 points it won't be good enough. Yes, he has had a lot of bad luck. I think his pace hasn't been that good when he hasn't been unlucky. I never compared him to Hamilton, either. Nothing has come out of the McLaren camp, saying he has to perform (mind you Briatore isn't a boss there). He needs to pick up results, a fairly obvious reflection.

I'm in a bit of a reflective mood (I don't think reflective is right word, oh well), DCs words, make me sure this is going to be his last season.

 

[Roo]

Yes, because the two events were entirely different circumstances.

Not only that, but as has already been pointed out, the whole point of the FLASHING red lights at the exit from pit lane is for safety reasons. Violating this is a clear infraction of the rules and the safety of the other drivers.

Kimi didn't break any rules, in fact everyone pretty much unanimously has agreed that he displayed remarkable car control to keep his car off the wall when he lost grip going over a small damp spot on the road.

You’re also comparing an accident at the fastest part of a race to an idiotic driver error at pit lane speeds.

Really, the two events couldn't be much different... which is why one resulted in a penalty while the other did not.

Yep, Motominded cleared that up for me 5 pages back:

This isn't something the FIA takes, lightly, it was not a true race incident. The red light is a safety thing and that is priority #1. Hamilton should have that in his brain over track position. Hence the penalties.

Ah, gotcha. That makes more sense.

 

[darkfinal]

Heck, if anyone deserved a penalty for reckless driving during the Monaco GP it should have been Alonso for making what arguabley was the worst pass attempt ever in an F1 race over the last ten years are so:

Whoa, anti-Alonso biased much?

It was a stupid attempt at getting the inner line, in a track that gives little space to do so. I'll give you that, yes. But it makes me wonder if your mind automatically discards every single other mistake to focus only on Alonso's, and blame everything he does.



And this is just an example of the dozens of stupid passing attempts I can remember this year that are significantly worse than the one you mention. But Button isn't as blamable, is he. Please.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Whoa, anti-Alonso biased much?

No, but thank you for asking and not assuming.

Pro-Alonso biased much?

I have links to your pro-Alonso biased posts if you are unsure.


Oh, and do you have any footage of any F1 driver making a pass for position in the *Grand Hotel Hairpin of any Monaco GP over the last ten years?

*Arguably the worst possible place to attempt to make a pass for position in any F1 circuit.

Heck, even the commentators of the race, who were praising Alonso earlier and over the last few races for his great car control, absolutely berated him over the broadcast for making such a ridiculous pass attempt.

I suspect had it been Hamilton who made that same move in the Grand Hotel Hairpin, you would have had a field day pointing it out.

Seeing as I am unbiased, with no favoritism towards any team or driver, I have no problem criticizing a driver who makes such a blatantly poor and reckless decision which not only threatens his own race, but the other drivers as well.



BTW: How exactly was that a significantly worse pass attempt than what Alonso did? Seriously! If anything deserves a , your suggestion it was worse, let alone significantly worse deserves such a reaction.... and further illustrates your continual favoritism towards Alonso.