2008 Montreal Grand Prix

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Hamilton made a mistake in the braking to the hairpin, yet proceeded to beat Kubica on the last sector by almost half a second. Definitely doesn't sound like similar fuel loads to me, the car can't accelerate that well without a significant weight advantage.

But the worst thing in the qualifying for me was the ridiculous situation of the "not the no. 2 driver" (as Norbert Haug recently said) Kovalainen. How come that, on a track on which McLaren is better than Ferrari, they give the other guy hard tyres and a heavy car while the other is running on softs and a light car? Come to think of it, why has he been given a heavier car every time this year? "Not the no. 2 driver" my 🤬. They don't want to take any chances for him to beat Hamilton. Just a very big shame to see a good driver being made to look bad because the other guy must win no matter what.

Who do I want to win tomorrow? Kubica, no doubt. He deserves it.
 
Metar
Alonso was very fast throughout qualifying, and in the end were only 6km/h behind McLaren in the top-speed ranking - during Q2, that meant second-fastest of all teams. Piquet was better than his usual self, too - he reached Q2, for a change. But 4th... :D

Top-speed appears not to be Renault's problem - their low nose gives them an advantage there - but rather raw downforce. Honda are the ones struggling with top-speed (the Elephants can't be very slippery...), yet even they made Q3... Though what happened to Button?
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Muzaffar Musa
No, that is just how a 2 time World Champion making the car look good. ;)
Good job indeed for Alonso to bring the car back in 4th. 👍 As for the whole entire qualifying session, it was really hard for everyone to push as the track was very slippery. Too bad Webber had to put it on the wall near the end of Q2, which meant he did not have a chance of qualifying during Q3. Ferrari had really been struggling at the last section of the circuit, particularly at the hairpin, and they really did suffer from it. Good work for both Hamilton and Kubica, as both manage to keep their pace from free practice all the way into qualifying and no doubt have a good race tomorrow. Nico also did a good job getting the car up there in Q3, even better than both his team mate and the Toyotas. But the worst of all the drivers had to be Nick. He was nowhere near Kubica and was struggling to keep pace with the others, and at times, looks as if he was going to get eliminated.
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For a brief moment, I thought I was living in a parallel time dimension. Alonso 4th in f1-live.com... But also 4th in Q1 when I switched on my TV, then the same in Q2... What the hell. Bad Telecinco for showing the quali two hours late, bad. :dopey:

Anyway, yes, that was some damn impressive performance by Alonso. And Webber, getting up there in Q2... But nowhere damn close to Hamilton. That last corner was simply outstanding.

Greycap
Hamilton made a mistake in the braking to the hairpin, yet proceeded to beat Kubica on the last sector by almost half a second. Definitely doesn't sound like similar fuel loads to me, the car can't accelerate that well without a significant weight advantage.

But the worst thing in the qualifying for me was the ridiculous situation of the "not the no. 2 driver" (as Norbert Haug recently said) Kovalainen. How come that, on a track on which McLaren is better than Ferrari, they give the other guy hard tyres and a heavy car while the other is running on softs and a light car? Come to think of it, why has he been given a heavier car every time this year? "Not the no. 2 driver" my . They don't want to take any chances for him to beat Hamilton. Just a very big shame to see a good driver being made to look bad because the other guy must win no matter what.

Who do I want to win tomorrow? Kubica, no doubt. He deserves it.
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PD: Ah, ah, ah. I give you five minutes before being accused of fanboyism (or anti-Hamilton-ism). And now Kovalainen will start complaining about his unfair position in the team, just like Dirty Alonso did. Or maybe there /was/ a reason to complain after all...?
 
Well, you can't deny it looks weird when the same guy is always sent out with a worse performing car onto the last laps that decide the results. Especially when you take into consideration that up to the Monaco race he was the faster one of them in every qualifying when the fuel difference was taken into account.

It wouldn't be a problem if the team honestly said (and included it in the that contract for the drivers) that they're fully supporting Hamilton to make him the champion and Kovalainen backs him up but no, they state both drivers are equal. I can understand why Alonso lost his cool, it doesn't matter how well one drives if the team doesn't allow being faster than the guy in the other car. Apparently they don't want the constructors' championship, two drivers with equal treatment would help a lot in that but it would also include the risk of the wrong man winning. We saw it last year, we'll see it this year.
 
Kovalainen hasn't impressed much right now. He's getting blown out by Hamilton. Luck has sometimes played against him, but champions know how to get around it. I'm sure he can, but it, most likely, won't be this year.

He seriously needs a good result here, like a Top 5 minimum. He needs to bring some points to McLaren now that his title chances are likely over. He needs to come back on the podium (which will be difficult here but doable since McLaren is probably the best team right now).

Seriously, you're pathetic with your accusations of unfair treatments. Kovalainen has always said that he prefers to be heavier and do long runs during the race (like Raikkonen did when he was at McLaren), hence his heavier fuel load and his harder tyres in Q3. Hamilton is the more aggressive and lightest of the two. Always is and always been this season so far.

Another aspect. Hamilton is leading the championship. Kovalainen is what, sixth, trailing his teammate by 23 points. His hopes of title are somewhat gone (considering it's highly unlikely that Hamilton or the Ferraris will suffer major breakdowns during the rest of the season), the only thing he can do is help Hamilton win it and help the team win the WCC.

AFAIK, the whole McLaren fiasco of 2007 really made Alonso look bad in front of the whole F1 community. Your claims of an underperforming car for the second driver (other than Hamilton, in other words) are not backed up with any proof and foolish. Hamilton beat Alonso fair and square more than a handful of times last year.
 
darkfinal
I just came back from my classes and... What? Alonso fourth in Q2!?

Didn't Renault suck in terms of top speed and traction!? :/
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So you thought... In low downforce the R28 has fair trap speed. And don't ever forget just who is driving that POS. LDM has to wonder what he could do with either of the Ferrari's.:bowdown:
 
mustang245 - the Renault is no "POS" anymore, not by a long shot. It is consistently a top-four car since Barcelona, and no, it's not "just the driver". The "just the driver" bit is Piquet, who makes a pretty decent car look far worse than it already is. Renault will likely finished behind Red Bull, perhaps even Williams, in the Constructor's table, simply because whatever Alonso scores, Piquet won't add enough to match what two more regular, consistent points-scorers can achieve.

mkay
Kovalainen hasn't impressed much right now. He's getting blown out by Hamilton. Luck has sometimes played against him, but champions know how to get around it. I'm sure he can, but it, most likely, won't be this year.
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You realize that the problem wasn't his pace? All times when Hamilton was superior weren't his fault, really:

Melbourne: Safety-car pitstops sent him back.
Barcelona: the McLaren failed on him, sent him flying into the wall
Istanbul: Early flat tyre sent him to the rear.
Monaco: Started from the pitlane, electronics failure.

Yet his pace was consistently equal with Hamilton.
 
Webber vs Alonso sharing 'broadsides' back and forth was demonstrative in Q3... closely matched cars yet Webber stuffed it trying to answer Alonso. It's always the driver... End of line.
 
mustang245
Webber vs Alonso sharing 'broadsides' back and forth was demonstrative in Q3... closely matched cars yet Webber stuffed it trying to answer Alonso. It's always the driver... End of line.
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...Think you mean Q2.

Say, you don't happen to be Mr.Alonso himself, eh?
 
I thought the disintegration of the track was appalling, this happens every year. 1) Why do we keep coming back to a circuit with is so incompetent? 2) Why can't they (properly) re-tarmac the track, specifically the hairpin? 3) Why do they use brushes to clear the debris? A suction sweeper would be far more efficient, I think they could afford one too.
 
mustang245
Webber vs Alonso sharing 'broadsides' back and forth was demonstrative in Q3... closely matched cars yet Webber stuffed it trying to answer Alonso. It's always the driver... End of line.
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Webber didn't take part in Q3. He also had no need to answer Alonso, or anyone else; he had just set the 5th fastest time with 45 seconds to go. He just got slightly offline, just as Alonso did when he slid off at the first corner. Unfortunately for Webber, there was a wall where he made a mistake.

Bee
...Think you mean Q2.

Say, you don't happen to be Mr.Alonso himself, eh?
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I always assumed he was a hardcore Hamilton fan who wants to make everyone hate Alonso.

My thoughts:

The ITV commentators were talking about the teamwork at Mclaren when Heikki was sent out on hard tyres. How the heck is that teamwork? Hamilton must be a bundle lighter than anyone else. Kubica, Alonso and Rosberg all did great jobs today. Fingers crossed they can fix the track overnight... or it'll be safety cars every 15 laps to sweep the track up.
 
Bee
...Think you mean Q2.

Say, you don't happen to be Mr.Alonso himself, eh?
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Alonso's Q2 time: 1:17.488

Webber's Q2 time: 1:17.523

was mustang245 watching the same qualifying session?
 
I'm surprised as to how Toyota have lost their form since Barcelona, a top 8 quali and finish was a long time ago, or am I mistaken? Really, they're falling behind once again, and they...errr... Jarno was doing so great :indiff:
 
I myself was astounded by Lewis pulling 6 tenths out of 'nowhere'. I thought Kubica had made a superhuman effort and then, boom, 6 tenths??? And McLaren 'teamwork'? Am I starting to see people coming around? It's a little late.
 
Bram Turismo
errr... Jarno was doing so great :indiff:
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That's pretty much it. 3 spins is not likely to get you into Q3; he did well to keep it out of the wall.

I wonder if Hamilton just took a huge bundle of risks on his last quali lap? If everyone else was running conserative because of the track breaking up, and Lewis put an all or nothing lap in, that plus a light fuel load could explain the 6 tenth gap.
 
Hamilton seems to have a huge speed advantage through the final chicane, due a combination of some massive kerb-cutting and his willingness to get scarily close to the wall. On his final lap he was already over 3 tenths up on Kubica at the end of sector 2, so it's not like he made up the entire amount of time just through the hairpin and chicane. It's still a very impressive lap, and I can't wait to see him and Kubica racing through the first few laps.

Here's hoping that the track surface manages to hold up to some extent tomorrow or any attewpt at overtaking is probably going to end up with somebody flying off into the wall.
 
Roo
That's pretty much it. 3 spins is not likely to get you into Q3; he did well to keep it out of the wall.

I wonder if Hamilton just took a huge bundle of risks on his last quali lap? If everyone else was running conserative because of the track breaking up, and Lewis put an all or nothing lap in, that plus a light fuel load could explain the 6 tenth gap.
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I prefer to think you're right. Only a strategy could explain 6 tenths clear of the field with current Q3 rules. Enjoy the Grand Prix, gents. It's gonna be good...
 
If Lewis is on a three stops strategy, it's safe to say that it is Kimi's win.

However, if Lewis is on two stops and pits 5 laps before Kimi and the others (and let's say pit 1 lap earlier or later than Kubica) and is able to put up a gap (i.e 0.5 sec per lap), then Lewis is likely favorite.

Kubica's pace is the great mystery here. If he can hold Kimi back, Lewis can build a gap. On the other hand, seeing as they're both light, they could both pull ahead of the pack and pit early.

Finally, if Lewis is only 1-2-3 laps lighter than Kimi, then châpeau Lewis!. That's probably the best qualif. lap of the past years (since Kimi's 2005 miracles). IMO, I don't think that he's on 3 stops. That's foolish considering it is costly to do so in Canada and also because he has probably the best car overall this weekend. Nothing justifies the need of a 3-stops strategy.

Furthermore, seeing that Hamilton was extremely happy (the happiest that I've ever seen this season), it looks like his strategy won't be far off that of the Ferraris, hence his smile after having driven a sensational lap.
 
mustang245
I prefer to think you're right. Only a strategy could explain 6 tenths clear of the field with current Q3 rules. Enjoy the Grand Prix, gents. It's gonna be good...
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Strategy/fuel accounted for about 3 tenths. Hamilton was fastest in all 3 qualifying sessions by about that much. Half fuel, half Lewis.

mkay
Nothing justifies the need of a 3-stops strategy.
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There's also the probability of a safety car. The risk of a safety car during 3 pitstop windows, at Montreal where safety cars are extremely common, would be too much.
 
It sucks that Vettel couldn't qualify, cause he would have done so well. :(
 
Roo
Strategy/fuel accounted for about 3 tenths. Hamilton was fastest in all 3 qualifying sessions by about that much. Half fuel, half Lewis.
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That makes me wonder... If Hamilton was already 3 tenths faster than anyone else, the smartest move would be fueling one or two laps more. Not less.

Sure, being the poleman 0.6 sec ahead of the rest makes you look cool. But it's not precisely good for the race! Unless, of course, the extra 3 tenths were just divine inspiration... I get the feeling we'll see Hamilton making his first pitstop not /that/ far from the rest of the front runners.
 
They do seem "Divine Inspiration" - he raced the circuit closer to the walls than anyone else. He brushed the walls with his tyres, while, for example, Kubica and Kovalainen kept a good 50cm from those..

Roo
I always assumed he was a hardcore Hamilton fan who wants to make everyone hate Alonso.
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And he's doing a darn good job. He makes me ashamed of being an Alonso fan.

jammyozzy
his willingness to get scarily close to the wall.
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Hell yeah. Hamilton got the Canadian F1 version of Darlington Stripes when he brushed the wall of champions with his wheels, just touching it on another one of his fast laps. You could see rubber bits flying in the air behind him!

mustang245
I prefer to think you're right. Only a strategy could explain 6 tenths clear of the field with current Q3 rules. Enjoy the Grand Prix, gents. It's gonna be good...
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6 tenths can be the fastest car of the weekend up to that point, a perfect effort during the lap, and a lap or two of fuel. That's all it takes, really. F1 cars are sensitive enough for two laps of fuel to be worth up to 0.3 of a second, and when your car dominated Q1 and Q2 (his early laps were faster than the best of Ferrari's late efforts), I don't see why he shouldn't run away during the race, too.

Bram Turismo
If it weren't for Monaco, his season hasn't been anything else but fail...
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Yes, car-failures and others nudging him. Sutil touched him twice in first corners taking him out...
 
darkfinal
That makes me wonder... If Hamilton was already 3 tenths faster than anyone else, the smartest move would be fueling one or two laps more. Not less.
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I wondered why Mclaren didn't stick a bit more fuel in his car as well. I can't see how running that much lighter than everyone else can be an advantage; the heavier you run, the more flexibility you have in changing to a 1 stop race if there's loads of safety car periods, a la Alex Wurz last year, amongst other things.

darkfinal
Sure, being the poleman 0.6 sec ahead of the rest makes you look cool. But it's not precisely good for the race! Unless, of course, the extra 3 tenths were just divine inspiration... I get the feeling we'll see Hamilton making his first pitstop not /that/ far from the rest of the front runners.
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Maybe he just clicks with the circuit, like Massa does at Bahrain and Turkey.
 
Vettel is a fantastic racer, just look at Fuji and Shanghai last season, he put that STR to places it really didn't deserve to be.
 
Metar
They do seem "Divine Inspiration" - he raced the circuit closer to the walls than anyone else. He brushed the walls with his tyres, while, for example, Kubica and Kovalainen kept a good 50cm from those..
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Roo
Maybe he just clicks with the circuit, like Massa does at Bahrain and Turkey.
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Precisely. Or like Alonso does at wet Hungarorings. :D
 
I bet we see a red flag during the race. With or without rain.

I think something that'll have a massive impact on the championship will happen aswell.
 
I don't think it will be red flagged. The marbles were a huge problem last year or was it two years ago or probably both years. There will probably a couple of safety car periods due to crashes.
 

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