2008 Montreal Grand Prix

[mustang245]

I suppose you're right. Still... Grah. I think I've never gone that frustrated during a race in a long time.

Anyway, watching Kubica on the top of the podium is chilling me down. He's been deserving that for such a LONG time. That, and the fact Hamilton is showing as the jerk he can be... That's gold!

Payback? Heidfeld was in the way of Alonso and costing him time at Monaco. Alonso got frustrated and rammed him. Wonderful podium for Kubica... Heidfeld looked sheepish and DC looked like he thought he 'earned' it. A most exciting race, hope 'Hard driver' enjoyed his trip.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Payback? Heidfeld was in the way of Alonso and costing him time at Monaco. Alonso got frustrated and rammed him.

That makes it sound much better. No he tried a stupid move which would could only be pulled off if Heidfeld saw him and conceded the position.

 

[Robin]

Great race... Funny how karma comes around doesnt it..

Sutil's failure leads to the safety car......
which leads to the pit stop craziness...
which leads to Hamilton messing up the red light...
which made him hit Kimi....
which ment Kimi's race was ruined...

So happy for BMW 1,2 and for DC for getting on the podium... there were lots of scraps all over the grid and there wasnt a boring moment..

Robin

 

[Sureboss]

Am I the only one who thought that Massa's move on those 2 cars at the hairpin was taken out of proportion?

"Great move by Massa"

The 'Great move' relied on 2 cars overshooting the hairpin!

Good race, Lewis needs some coffee.

 

[nissan tuner]

great podium finish for DC

Payback? Heidfeld was in the way of Alonso and costing him time at Monaco. Alonso got frustrated and rammed him.

you cant be serious.

alonso fanboy much?

 

[kamelin-nahka]

Yet the other two cars stopped perfectly well to wait. Why didn't this one hot shot? Too busy or too ignorant? Hell, he managed to miss not only a huge flashing red light, but also two cars parked on the pit lane. That's an unexcusable mistake for anyone, being the golden boy of McLaren doesn't make it any less stupid. I'm probably getting an anti-Hamilton sign over my head again (not that it would be false information anyway) but that's an unbelievably idiotic mistake and anyone with eyes can see it. Admitting it is another thing.

i agree that

 

[PeterJB]

YES!! Vettel 8th! I was so scared that Kovalainen would pass him at the end.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Am I the only one who thought that Massa's move on those 2 cars at the hairpin was taken out of proportion?

"Great move by Massa"

The 'Great move' relied on 2 cars overshooting the hairpin!

Good race, Lewis needs some coffee.

It was a pretty tight squeeze. I think he had his right wheel on the grass.

 

[PeterJB]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxpzNY60U2o

Watch before it gets taken down

I just noticed that Hamiltons front-left wheel locked up before he hit Kimi.

 

[TheMoose]

Kubica & BMW's win=
Hamilton's crash=
Ferrari's fueling mistake costing Massa big points=
Fox sport's not having a pre race show & cutting the post race interviews short=

 

[Sureboss]

It was a pretty tight squeeze. I think he had his right wheel on the grass.

He wouldn't have made the move, had they kept the normal line though, would he?

 

[Racer21]

I think that Hamilton decided to go into Kimi rather than Kubica when he knew that he was not going to be able to stop.

 

[Greycap]

I just noticed that Hamiltons front-left wheel locked up before he hit Kimi.

Conspiracy theory but still... why did he turn left in the first place, causing the left tyre to lock up, when he saw he can't stop in time? Much more beneficial to take Räikkönen out than Kubica when he saw his own race was done for? Lame and transparent but I doubt he's going to get punished properly for it. I surely hope I'm wrong.

Other than that, great to see BMW taking their first victory, and what a style! Kubica showing the old ghosts of turn 10 who's the boss and Heidfeld bringing in the full load of constructors' points. 👍

 

[PeterJB]

Conspiracy theory but still... why did he turn left in the first place, causing the left tyre to lock up, when he saw he can't stop in time? Much more beneficial to take Räikkönen out than Kubica when he saw his own race was done for? Lame and transparent but I doubt he's going to get punished properly for it. I surely hope I'm wrong.

Other than that, great to see BMW taking their first victory, and what a style! Kubica showing the old ghosts of turn 10 who's the boss and Heidfeld bringing in the full load of constructors' points. 👍

He may have been trying to go around Raikkonen.

 

[Motominded]

He wouldn't have made the move, had they kept the normal line though, would he?

Doesnt matter, those two mess up and he is brave to go on the inside of both, it was a fantastic attempt.

 

[Metar]

Brilliant drive by Kubica - he might not have won it with Hamilton and Raikkonen in the game, but it's not a game of ifs, and he won it dominantly. Heidfeld, well, nice drive, but I can't say I liked it.

Coulthard and Barrichello deserve congratulations as well. Too bad that off put Rubens right between Massa's crosshairs, otherwise it would've been a healthy haul in 4th. David really did

wow really nice viewing spot but i gotta wonder what would happen to an F1 car if they accidentaly hit a beaver especially on that course in the hair pins.

The answer came last year, when Anthony Davidson, running 3rd at the time on a one-stopper, collided with one. Front wing broke.

I know this is wrong but I lol'd slightly at Hamilton's rookie mistake... Kimi was as calm as usual though, since out of all the people to pile into the back of his Ferrari it's the one he's competing with for the WDC.

Exactly - it wasn't a total loss with Hamilton out. Actually, it might be beneficial for Kimi, since he might not have finished ahead of Lewis after all, so his lead wouldn't grow.

Yet the other two cars stopped perfectly well to wait. Why didn't this one hot shot? Too busy or too ignorant? Hell, he managed to miss not only a huge flashing red light, but also two cars parked on the pit lane. That's an unexcusable mistake for anyone, being the golden boy of McLaren doesn't make it any less stupid. I'm probably getting an anti-Hamilton sign over my head again (not that it would be false information anyway) but that's an unbelievably idiotic mistake and anyone with eyes can see it. Admitting it is another thing.

What cars exactly found the time to stop? Nico crashed, and Fernando had far more time to react.

For some reason, it's always a very biased view with you: Last year, it was devil McLaren, the information-stealing thief against poor Ferrari. This year, it's cruel Hamilton and McLaren blocking the poor Kovalainen, or EviLewis ramming his rival out of the race.

Yes, it was a mistake. Yes, it was an epic mistake, and yes, he should've paid more attention. But the same can be said for any mistake involving late braking. Kimi could have braked earlier and safer at Monaco. On top of that, the red light came on just seconds before the crash:



In the pit-lane, most guys watch where their immediate opponents are. By the time he noticed they were stopping and the red light was on, it was too late - remember, the low cockpit and high surroundings play tricks with the depth-perception, and it's not always easy to focus on the drivers ahead, and the red light above.

Not only you've been the (possibly) luckiest podium this season, but you've had to hold back an under-powered Alonso all the way until his refrigeration system started boiling and jammed his gearbox. Heidfeld wasn't gonna lose his position if he let Alonso pass, either.

I didn't catch that bit on TV (commercial-break), so what exactly went down there?

Strange co-incidence that both RB and Renaults brakes have trouble, and engines occasionally. I think they're sharing some secrets.

Williams and Honda had brake-troubles as well. In the last 10 laps, Rubens told his mechanic his brakes are bad. Kazuki said the same thing when Massa was chasing him, as well.

when was he ever interviewed?

About two minutes after the incident, RTL had an interview.

edit: ugh timo screwed over his teammate good

If I were Trulli, I wouldn't be too happy about that. He nearly collided with him, ffs!

Anyway, watching Kubica on the top of the podium is chilling me down.

Same here. I was sooo waiting for a double-BMW podium with Alonso as well... Stupid RTL decided to do a 5-minute ad break just at the time he crashed.

What's with the whole red light situation anyway? Why is it always Canada?

Canada has a rather awkward pit-lane exit, which ends up

Payback? Heidfeld was in the way of Alonso and costing him time at Monaco. Alonso got frustrated and rammed him.

No, you bloody idiot. Saying "Oh, it's ok, he was holding him up and rammed him" is like saying "Yeah, Alonso is an immature bastard". He's a double world champion, as you like to tell us every other post - he does mistakes, like everyone, but not even Ide and Yamamoto would ram someone because he's holding them up, much less do that and justify it. Alonso went into a space that wasn't really there, it was a mistake, and it cost Heidfeld far more than it cost himself. Neither wanted that result.

He wouldn't have made the move, had they kept the normal line though, would he?

Nope, but it still takes some major balls to drive past two cars with two wheels on the inside grass..

Conspiracy theory but still... why did he turn left in the first place, causing the left tyre to lock up, when he saw he can't stop in time? Much more beneficial to take Räikkönen out than Kubica when he saw his own race was done for?

Too easy - he was trying to avoid both of them. There was free run-off space to the left, and no space to the right. Had he gone straight, it'd be into both of them. Notice how he hit Kimi's left (outside) with his own right (inside), and was turning left at the time.

 

[Studentdriver]

According to ESPN.com, Hamilton and Rosberg will be penalized 10 grid spots at France.

 

[Greycap]

What cars exactly found the time to stop? Nico crashed, and Fernando had far more time to react.

In case you didn't see it there were two cars already stopped at the gate when Hamilton crashed into the Ferrari. How come that they had arrived there earlier and still had time to react? The "time to stop" doesn't quite work here.

For some reason, it's always a very biased view with you: Last year, it was devil McLaren, the information-stealing thief against poor Ferrari. This year, it's cruel Hamilton and McLaren blocking the poor Kovalainen, or EviLewis ramming his rival out of the race.

If you honestly deny that McLaren stole that information, that Hamilton is being treated as the number one and that he just rammed Räikkönen out of the race you should look into the mirror before accusing me of being biased. You know, all those things happened, regardless if you want to believe them or not. Apparently not.

Yes, it was a mistake. Yes, it was an epic mistake, and yes, he should've paid more attention. But the same can be said for any mistake involving late braking. Kimi could have braked earlier and safer at Monaco. On top of that, the red light came on just seconds before the crash:

Making a mistake braking late on the track isn't quite the same thing as crashing into a car at the pit road, especially one that is sitting at red lights. Why should have Räikkönen braked earlier at Monaco, he didn't know there would be a damp patch there? And don't say "Hamilton didn't know there would be a red light" as he should have seen it. I could have understood if he had made a gross misjudging on track and plowed into the back of the Ferrari. It would have been a racing incident. What he did now was pure lack of attention, something that should not happen at that level.

In the pit-lane, most guys watch where their immediate opponents are. By the time he noticed they were stopping and the red light was on, it was too late - remember, the low cockpit and high surroundings play tricks with the depth-perception, and it's not always easy to focus on the drivers ahead, and the red light above.

I point to the first reply in this post. The other two had time to see the light and stop even though they arrived there a good while before Hamilton and were undoubtedly watching each other. And if Hamilton is too challenged by the cockpit he shouldn't be driving at all. That's no excuse for the best drivers in the world.

 

[darkfinal]

I didn't catch that bit on TV (commercial-break), so what exactly went down there?

The local Spanish TV found a nice (but fake) excuse, as usual, saying they had been told Alonso's engine was overheating badly, not having a single breeze of fresh air to cool it down. That heated the oil and, consequently, broke the gearbox before he spun out.

In later declarations, Alonso just said he struggled to get a better angle of attack in that corner, stepping on some of the awful, awful debris on the 'dirty' side of the track, and lost it. I'm not blaming him - Geez, his pace was close to Kubica's, if not as fast, and there was no way he could overtake Heidfeld with such a car, in such a track. No traction made him lose the BMW's trail in every single straight, and the fact he was possibly going under a helluva low aero setting to counter his lack of top speed made it even harder. I'd be frustrated as friggin' hell. :/

 

[Metar]

If you honestly deny that McLaren stole that information, that Hamilton is being treated as the number one and that he just rammed Räikkönen out of the race you should look into the mirror before accusing me of being biased. You know, all those things happened, regardless if you want to believe them or not. Apparently not.

I'm not denying that McLaren stole the information, because that is an established fact. However, if you recall, you quite consistently called for their driver's points to be zero'ed as well (for lack of a better word), and various other harsher penalties.

And yes, I deny that Hamilton has been a definite #1. The driver has his choices regarding strategies, and if Heikki chose to fuel heavier, it's not the fault of his team. Even if it was a team decision - it is very common for teams to split the strategies, especially in such a predictably unpredictable race. At the moment, I wouldn't be surprised if Hamilton is now the official #1 either, because it makes sense - he is in the heat of the title-fight, while Kovalainen is 23 points behind him. Nothing short of a Kimi-esque comeback can save his title-chances at this point.

And while Hamilton physically rammed into the back of Kimi's car, there's zero evidence it was on purpose - quite the opposite, since he was attempting to avoid him, and locked his brakes.

FYI, I dislike Hamilton quite a bit. Big skill, big ego.

In case you didn't see it there were two cars already stopped at the gate when Hamilton crashed into the Ferrari. How come that they had arrived there earlier and still had time to react? The "time to stop" doesn't quite work here.

I point to the first reply in this post. The other two had time to see the light and stop even though they arrived there a good while before Hamilton and were undoubtedly watching each other. And if Hamilton is too challenged by the cockpit he shouldn't be driving at all. That's no excuse for the best drivers in the world.

Because not everyone is in the same position at the right time. If you look at it, with the light going on mere seconds before the impact, it was a matter of where you were looking at that exact time. If it's that problem which bugs you, then how about Rosberg, who crashed despite having double the time to react? Kimi and Robert only barely stopped on the line themselves.

Making a mistake braking late on the track isn't quite the same thing as crashing into a car at the pit road, especially one that is sitting at red lights. Why should have Räikkönen braked earlier at Monaco, he didn't know there would be a damp patch there? And don't say "Hamilton didn't know there would be a red light" as he should have seen it. I could have understood if he had made a gross misjudging on track and plowed into the back of the Ferrari. It would have been a racing incident. What he did now was pure lack of attention, something that should not happen at that level.

Actually, you would've blamed him just as well if it was, say, a restart after the safety-car. And if you really want to get technical and/or conspirative - Kimi and Robert had a good view to the front, and could've seen the cars still going around the chicane. They could therefore assume that red light and prepare themselves. Hamilton could see two rear wings, a bit blue sky, and a green light that just turned red.

 

[zoxxy]

Payback? Heidfeld was in the way of Alonso and costing him time at Monaco. Alonso got frustrated and rammed him.

That does it.


*Add to ignore list*

 

[Roo]

Kimi, this is Karma. Karma, meet Kimi.

wow even after raikonen got hit he seemed really calm about it. if it was me it would have been a punch to the face, he just go pats the moron on the back and points at the light.

As Martin Brundle said on the ITV commentary, punching Hamilton won’t put his rear wing back on.

Yet the other two cars stopped perfectly well to wait. Why didn't this one hot shot?

Two hot shots. Rosberg lost his front wing by doing exactly the same as Hamilton.

Hell, he managed to miss not only a huge flashing red light, but also two cars parked on the pit lane.

Which do you look at; the light, or the 2 cars that are suddenly parked in front of you? If you try to do both, you’ll crash. If you’re looking for/at the light, you aren’t looking at the road; if there are stationary cars ahead, you’ll crash. That’s why the team should be telling the driver whether the light is red or not.

Is there any onboard footage from Hamilton’s engine cover camera?

I'm probably getting an anti-Hamilton sign over my head again (not that it would be false information anyway)

The forum would be a lot less interesting if you weren’t anti-Hamilton.

but that's an unbelievably idiotic mistake and anyone with eyes can see it.

It was a stupid thing to do, and potentially a very costly one; Montreal is a Mclaren /Hamilton track. The upcoming events in France and Britain suit the Ferraris much better – Hamilton needed 10 points today.

I don't like using dirty words, but all I can say now is: Screw you, Heidfeld.

Not only you've been the (possibly) luckiest podium this season, but you've had to hold back an under-powered Alonso all the way until his refrigeration system started boiling and jammed his gearbox. Heidfeld wasn't gonna lose his position if he let Alonso pass, either.

It's Alonso's job to get past Heidfeld, not Heidfeld's job to help Alonso. Nick was fat with fuel; plenty of other drivers managed to overtake other cars.

Conspiracy theory but still... why did he turn left in the first place, causing the left tyre to lock up, when he saw he can't stop in time?

Firstly, because there was enough space to get round them on the left of Raikkonen. Secondly, Hamilton didn’t react quick enough to stop; what makes you think he had time to work out which of the 2 cars was a Ferrari – specifically Raikkonen’s Ferrari – and aim for it?

Lame and transparent but I doubt he's going to get punished properly for it. I surely hope I'm wrong.

If Raikkonen doesn't get a penalty for taking out Sutil, then Hamilton shouldn't get a penalty for taking out Raikkonen.

Apparantly I'm wrong:

Hamilton, Rosberg hit with grid penalty

By Pablo Elizalde Sunday, June 8th 2008, 20:27 GMT


Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg will lose ten places on the grid at the French Grand Prix following their pitlane incident in Canada.

Hamilton crashed into the back of Ferrari's Kimi Raikkonen at the end of the pitlane on lap 20, when the Finn braked to stop in front of the red light. The Briton said he saw the light too late and could not avoid hitting the Ferrari.

Both men retired in the accident.

Rosberg could not stop in time either and hit Hamilton from behind, although the Williams driver was able to continue in the race.

Both Hamilton and Rosberg will be hit with a 10-place grid penalty in France in two weeks' time.

I suspect Greycap and mustang245 have just orgasmed in delight.

I point to the first reply in this post. The other two had time to see the light and stop even though they arrived there a good while before Hamilton and were undoubtedly watching each other.

Yet they had no cars in front of them. All Raikkonen and Kubica had to do was watch the light and plant their foot on the appropriate pedal; the pitlane exit is dead straight, so once they saw they were side by side, they could ignore each other until they got to Turn 2. Hamilton, Rosberg and all the cars behind them not only had to watch the light, but also all the other cars in front of them.

However: Hamilton made a mistake. So did Rosberg. They got a penalty. No amount of bitching on here is going to change that.

 

[Omnis]

So what happened to Sutil? His brakes caught fire or something? Or was it Alonso who was on fire?

 

[nissan tuner]

yes, Sutil's brakes burst into flames and caused a safety car period.

Alonso simply spun out by himself

 

[Bram Turismo]

Ah man, I'm waiting for some YouTube clips to work again, I haven't had the chance to follow the race

Deserved win for Kubica though 👍 Wait...is that Glock in 4th? And Vettel in 8th? Those lucky sods 👍


What ever happened to Massa? And Kovalainen not in the points AGAIN?!

 

[Roo]

So noone can accuse me of being overly biased:

Hamilton apologises to Raikkonen

By Jonathan Noble and Pablo Elizalde Sunday, June 8th 2008, 18:17 GMT


Lewis Hamilton apologised to Kimi Raikkonen after a mistake by the Briton put both out of the Canadian Grand Prix.

Raikkonen stopped at the red light at the end of the pitlane on lap 20, but Hamilton drove into the back of the Ferrari and both men had to retire.

An unhappy Raikkonen spoke to Hamilton after the crash, pointing at the light.

Championship leader Hamilton said he had seen the red light when it was already too late.

"It wasn't a great stop. I saw the two guys in front battling in the pitlane and all of a sudden they stopped. I saw the red light but by the time I stopped it was too late," said Hamilton.

"It is a lot different if you crash into the wall and are angry, it is not like that. I apologise to Kimi if I cost him the race, but these sort of things happen.

"I would rather neither of us were out, we were so quick, I was in front. Next time."

The accident left BMW Sauber's Robert Kubica with a great chance of scoring his maiden Formula One victory.

No word yet on the reasoning behind Hamilton and Rosberg's penalties. I guess "causing an avoidable accident", but if it was avoidable, it wouldn't have happened... It's not like Rosberg put anyone out of the race either; the penalty is a lot harsher on Nico than it is on Lewis.

 

[Motominded]

So noone can accuse me of being overly biased:



No word yet on the reasoning behind Hamilton and Rosberg's penalties. I guess "causing an avoidable accident", but if it was avoidable, it wouldn't have happened... It's not like Rosberg put anyone out of the race either; the penalty is a lot harsher on Nico than it is on Lewis.

It is an avoidable accident but Hamilton should have been more aware of what was going on.

Look at Kubica and Raikkonen. Both of them beat Hamilton out the pit box and were both trying to beat each other out back onto the track. (A more intense situation than hamilton) but even with that, they were both able to acknowledge the red. Hamilton was probably to caught up with the positions he lost in the pits to consider the red, he then looked at the cars, looked at the red THEN, and at that point it was all over. Rosberg is guilty of the same thing.

This isn't something the FIA takes, lightly, it was not a true race incident. The red light is a safety thing and that is priority #1. Hamilton should have that in his brain over track position. Hence the penalties.

 

[Metar]

Deserved win for Kubica though 👍 Wait...is that Glock in 4th? And Vettel in 8th? Those lucky sods 👍

What ever happened to Massa? And Kovalainen not in the points AGAIN?!

Glock - the lucky bastard of this race. His mistake didn't cost him a thing (time, but no position), but his stupid way of returning to the track, forced Trulli to stomp on his brakes - and Massa went past.

Vettel - worked hard, earned that point.

Kovalainen - in a game of pitstops and safety-cars, some lose out. He did, as did Alonso, who ended up being out of the points, technically, at the time of his spin.

It's not like Rosberg put anyone out of the race either; the penalty is a lot harsher on Nico than it is on Lewis.

On the other hand, Rosberg is not fighting for pole positions, but lower Q3 (usually, that is). So starting 16th-22nd isn't that bad, compared to 11th-16th for a driver fighting for wins.

And the penalty is very easy, considering Sato was punished equally hard for passing Scott Speed under a yellow flag at the USGP..

 

[darkfinal]

It's Alonso's job to get past Heidfeld, not Heidfeld's job to help Alonso. Nick was fat with fuel; plenty of other drivers managed to overtake other cars.

Of course it isn't, but you have to agree with me on something: Heidfeld is a nightmare for Alonso. I always remember the Spaniard getting stuck several times in the past years like that, like a big white wall of concrete.

Other than that awful excuse (), the key to get past someone in Canada is having a lot of traction to get close to each other in the last straight. But we're talking about Renault - I couldn't stop facepalming each time I saw Alonso getting so damn close in the hairpin, then literally losing Heidfeld from view (while the 'others' you're talking about, at least, get close enough to push their noses in. Alonso didn't have a chance!).

Of course, all that would just be whining, if it wasn't for the fact Heidfeld wasn't fighting for a real position. Letting Alonso past or not, he'd finish ahead of Nando anyway. Hell, Nick's engineer even suggested him to do so!

Now, off to bed I should go, to turn my into the good ol' .

 

[Roo]

It is an avoidable accident but Hamilton should have been more aware of what was going on.

Look at Kubica and Raikkonen. Both of them beat Hamilton out the pit box and were both trying to beat each other out back onto the track. (A more intense situation than hamilton) but even with that, they were both able to acknowledge the red. Hamilton was probably to caught up with the positions he lost in the pits to consider the red, he then looked at the cars, looked at the red THEN, and at that point it was all over. Rosberg is guilty of the same thing.

That's my point - Hamilton had to consider both the light and the cars in front of him. Kubica and Raikkonen only had to look at the light - had it been green, they could've returned attention to one another in the 150 yards of straight, wide pit lane exit. They didn't have to worry about avoiding anyone in front of them. Hamilton, Rosberg and the rest of the field not only had to look at the light, but also the cars ahead - and trying to focus on 2 things at the same time is not a productive way to drive a car. That's why the team shoud be telling the drivers whether the light is red or not, so that the driver can focus on the cars around him.

This isn't something the FIA takes, lightly, it was not a true race incident. The red light is a safety thing and that is priority #1.

Ah, gotcha. That makes more sense.

Of course it isn't, but you have to agree with me on something: Heidfeld is a nightmare for Alonso. I always remember the Spaniard getting stuck several times in the past years like that, like a big white wall of concrete.

Aside from Monaco, I'd have to look Heidfeld-Alonso battles up so I'll go with what you're saying , but to me it's a bit like Enrique Bernoldi in the Arrows holding up David Coulthard for 40-odd laps in Monaco 2001; just because the car 1 position behind is faster doesn't mean you should get out of the way.

Of course, all that would just be whining, if it wasn't for the fact Heidfeld wasn't fighting for a real position. Letting Alonso past or not, he'd finish ahead of Nando anyway. Hell, Nick's engineer even suggested him to do so!

His engineer said "If fighting Alonso is losing you too much time, then let him through". Heidfeld clearly felt he wasn't losing time and so kept Alonso behind him.

Now, off to bed I should go, to turn my into the good ol' .

We should probably have an F1 sub-forum post-race gentleman's agreement - noone posts anything until you've slept on it