2009 Brazilian Grand Prix

[killanite]

There's major discussions in the FOTA/FIA on how to assist in overtaking and lo and behold, we have viewers commenting on 'it's only natural to overtake slower cars'. The fact is, it's bloody difficult to overtake a car in a race. Why else would FOTA/FIA keep introducing rules to aerodynamics if overtaking was a piece of cake?
.

This is quite true. Vettel had a much faster car than button (as proven by Webber's and Vettel's clean air laptimes) but vettel did most his overtaking in the pits, Was stuck behind nakajima for a fair chunk of time before kamikaze boy took him out (I like this kid though, should get a gig in F1, doesn't give up spots like most rookies, actually fights for them) But I digress, Having a quick car doesn't instantly mean you can pass anyone easily.
Button's overtake were no easy task and you shouldn't discredit any of them, they were all quite brave and potentially race ending if something had gone wrong. Took some real ... manhood to do what he did.

 

[tibiquera]

Well, it feels weird defending the guy I was arguing before, but for me it was very clear he was being sarcastic. Now going from defense to attack mode, my point is: I never said Button is an unworthy champion. What I did say is that he wasn't the best driver in the race. Yes he did overtake a lot of people, but those were all considerably slower cars (probably a few seconds slower). And the reason why he was behind those cars was his qualifying the day before (in other words, he put himself into that situation). In my opinion, Kubica and Webber (except in the Raikkonen incident) were much better.

Edit: At killanite. True, but racing goes beyond overtaking. I think rating someone should include qualifying too, and Button did miserably in qualifying. He had a very good race, but seeing what his teammate was able to do throughout the whole weekend (and discounting his puncture), you'll see it wasn't that good. That's why I think Kubica was the real man, because he was super fast throughout the whole weekend.

 

[Ardius]

Hmmm...I supposed I didn't make it clear enough in my first post then?
I originally had thought in my previous it was obvious I made it ALL UP to spite others that were discrediting Button's drive. I mean, isn't overtaking slow cars part of the race?
(I even included a specific quote)

There's major discussions in the FOTA/FIA on how to assist in overtaking and lo and behold, we have viewers commenting on 'it's only natural to overtake slower cars'. The fact is, it's bloody difficult to overtake a car in a race. Why else would FOTA/FIA keep introducing rules to aerodynamics if overtaking was a piece of cake?

But apparently, by posting a smile, it will help readers to understand 'yes the following you just read is sacarsm'.

I suppose intelligence cannot be depended on days

I hope I put enough smiles in this post.

Implying people aren't intelligent for not being able to read sarcasm from a line of text is, well, pretty silly.

If you mean this then you clearly don't understand how sarcasm is implied, text is so to the point that it doesn't do justice to what the speaker/typer really means. Sarcasm works by some kind of hint, in text alone there is none because text alone is rubbish at conveying any kind facial hint, tone or anything like that (obviously).

I mean, its like stating something seriously and then going "oh it was sarcasm, can't you tell?". The point of sarcasm is its meant to be obvious, not a trick.

 

[SummAh77]

But I already hinted!!!!!! Some picked it up, others didn't. It's the same as telling a joke in real life, some will get it. Others will look at you with a really blank look and go 'huh'?.

You can't expect the person to immediately know you're telling a joke just because you're laughing at your own jokes. The listener has to be able to filter out the message and undstand it at the end of the day.

And Ardius is correct, I shouldn't have used the word 'intelligence'. That, I admit is my wrong doing. That in essence, is actually quite stupid as it has more to do with reading comprehension or to use back my example, just because I don't get a joke doesn't make me stupid (nor for anyone here).

 

[The Outlaw]

This is quite true. Vettel had a much faster car than button (as proven by Webber's and Vettel's clean air laptimes) but vettel did most his overtaking in the pits, Was stuck behind nakajima for a fair chunk of time before kamikaze boy took him out (I like this kid though, should get a gig in F1, doesn't give up spots like most rookies, actually fights for them) But I digress, Having a quick car doesn't instantly mean you can pass anyone easily.
Button's overtake were no easy task and you shouldn't discredit any of them, they were all quite brave and potentially race ending if something had gone wrong. Took some real ... manhood to do what he did.

You're just looking at things at face value though...there's much more to it than that. Yes, Vettel's car was capable of quicker lap times in clean air, but Button's car was running a very low DF configuration with the strongest powerplant (MB) in the field. This was a combination that made passing a fair bit easier into T1 on the cars he passed (Toyota, Renault powered cars with sub par drivers...not sure about DF levels, but Nakajima was running a high DF set-up).

Button would get in the cars slipstream and start pulling up on them like mad approaching T1...almost as if he had a magic KERS Button This definitely made overtaking much easier for Button than it may have seemed. I'm not sure exactly what kind of set-up the RBR had in comparison (probably a fairly low DF, dry set-up) but the Renault powerplant is seriously lacking in tractable power (probably the worst on the grid in terms of total powerband ouput) compared to the MB unit....as we saw in Monza. Those are things that NEED to be taken into consideration when passing judgment on their comparative performances.

Well, it feels weird defending the guy I was arguing before, but for me it was very clear he was being sarcastic. Now going from defense to attack mode, my point is: I never said Button is an unworthy champion. What I did say is that he wasn't the best driver in the race. Yes he did overtake a lot of people, but those were all considerably slower cars (probably a few seconds slower). And the reason why he was behind those cars was his qualifying the day before (in other words, he put himself into that situation). In my opinion, Kubica and Webber (except in the Raikkonen incident) were much better.

Edit: At killanite. True, but racing goes beyond overtaking. I think rating someone should include qualifying too, and Button did miserably in qualifying. He had a very good race, but seeing what his teammate was able to do throughout the whole weekend (and discounting his puncture), you'll see it wasn't that good. That's why I think Kubica was the real man, because he was super fast throughout the whole weekend.

Exactly 👍

Just to make things clear, I obviously saw the sarcasm in Sumah's post. If you had been following his stand on things before you would have clearly seen this. I think Summah has been a bit overly defensive of Button though...we should all be able to state our opinions (of his drive at Brazil), as long as they're within reason and show respect for the man. No need to be a Nazi just because one doesn't share the same view as you.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

But I already hinted!!!!!! Some picked it up, others didn't. It's the same as telling a joke in real life, some will get it. Others will look at you with a really blank look and go 'huh'?.

I hate to go off-topic, but I'm still a sceptic. I've seen this before: people say something and get called out for it and then claim it was a joke all along to try and twist their way out of it. If you're wrong, you're wrong. We won't think any less of you; I get stuff wrong all the time, and yet I haven't been run out of town for it. But we will think less of you if you present your opinions as fact and then try and talk your way out of it all by claiming it to have been a joke and that you're in front of a tough crowd. I don't see any indications that it was a joke: from where I'm sitting, it looks like you don't think Button makes for a worthy champion, have made up some BS about his admitting it was all down to the car to back your claim up, and then you tried to silence everyone else before they could reply. Now that we've called you out on it, you've resorted to the it-was-a-joke-the-whole-time defence. I'm sorry, but to my mind, you're just trying to blunt the impact.

A word to the wise: don't try and use nuances of language like sarcasm on the internet. A lot of the humour depends on the delivery just as much as the content, but in a medium like the internet - where there's no capacity for things like tone - it can seriously backfire on you, as I believe it just did.

 

[The Outlaw]

Nm

 

[NapoleonMikey]

No need to be a Nazi just because one doesn't share the same view as you.

Godwin's law has just been put into play. I really dont see how this conversation can go any further especially with how off topic this is now. So can we get off the topic of if it was a joke or not and back onto discussion of the race?

 

[SummAh77]

Please read my first post to have a clear understanding of whether I am happy that Button is a WDC...bitter irony considering I am cheering all over the place on my msn n facebook..

Please learn to read.

 

[mPWRD]

Congrats JB on a well-deserved championship... but I can't help feeling sorry for Rubens. He was probably the best driver down the stretch - he got better in every race barring a couple lapses. The poor guy now holds the record for the most points without a Drivers' Championship...

And Summah... we all know how to read, TYVM. Being defensive will only get you in more trouble, as I once found out.