2009 Brazilian Grand Prix

This was by far the most entertaining race of the year. the entire race had constant action somewhere, even if some of it was extreme like the Kovalinen fuel hose torching kimi incident. Kobayashi some say seemed reckless in the car (but really i can only think of the Nakajima incident as reckless) but i would say he has been the one rookie this year that seemed to instantly feel at home in an F1 car if he was willing to drive that hard and not just let everyone by when they started pushing. im actually surprised he didn't end up in the points seeing at one point he was in 3rd once the first round of pit stops came along. But though im sad to see the championship decided this race it was a hard drive by all the drivers and Jensen earned it.
 
Looking back, Button was lucky to have silenced the critics really (if he even did). If it weren't for Webber running Kimi off the road and breaking his front wing, Sutil/Truli incident which took out Alonso, and Rosberg's engine failure I seriously doubt Button would have even scored any points...then what would everyone be saying? :lol: :rolleyes: And of course Button was also helped by Barichello's misfortunes throughout the race.

But of course, that's racing for you...and the results are the results bottom line. In the end the "ifs" and "buts" don't really matter. I just don't think Button's performance was all that stellar (at least how everyone's writing it up to be) given that Vettel surpassed him (yet gets no mention), and Hamilton who somehow came from 18th to 3rd with an amazing drive.

Just throwing some FACTS out there...
 
interludes
I reckon that with a little bit of polish, Cowboyashi could be the best Japanese driver in ... well, ever. I wouldn't be too disappointed if he appeared on the 2010 grid.
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Touring Mars
:lol:

I just hope he doesn't become Kobacrashi. On today's form though, he looks like he could be a strong talent, but it's too early to tell right now I guess.
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I'll up that and call him Kamikazeyoshi, that guy has got to be the most exciting Japense driver we have seen since....welll...ever

On the other hand, well done to Jensiniho, bad, bad luck to Rubinho, when is his luck going to change around his home track?

Congrats to Webbo, way to spoil the Brazilian party but, he looked like he had the best car out there

Well done to Kubica, would love to see him take BMW out in style with the victory in Abu Dhabi

WTF made Hamilton so fast? He was shot out of a cannon after every corner, i was like permenant KERS!

WTF to Jarno Trulli for swiping Sutil out and then having the sheer nerve to go and say it was his fault. Maybe he should have looked at the slow red car in front of Sutil before he says anything.

:lol: to Raikonnen being turned into the Human Torch. Scary but that just about sums his season up.
 
I'm looking forward to the next race. Both championships are decided. Everybody can go all out for the race win. It will be interesting to see if Button can blow out the final candle in his cake.
 
timeattack07gt
Looking back, Button was lucky to have silenced the critics really (if he even did). If it weren't for Webber running Kimi off the road and breaking his front wing, Sutil/Truli incident which took out Alonso, and Rosberg's engine failure I seriously doubt Button would have even scored any points...then what would everyone be saying? :lol: :rolleyes: And of course Button was also helped by Barichello's misfortunes throughout the race.

But of course, that's racing for you...and the results are the results bottom line. In the end the "ifs" and "buts" don't really matter. I just don't think Button's performance was all that stellar (at least how everyone's writing it up to be) given that Vettel surpassed him (yet gets no mention), and Hamilton who somehow came from 18th to 3rd with an amazing drive.

Just throwing some FACTS out there...
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But on the other hand another fact is that Button overtook 4 people in that race rather superbly.

He earnt the championship, as Lauda said, if he is called world champion, he had to have earnt it.
 
Kimi said in an interview that he got fuel in his eye during the fuelhose incident, his eyes were still burning (not on fire but because of the liquid) after the race.

Driver of the day.
 
I thought McLaren wanted to hire him, not fire him...

getmecoat.gif
 
Ardius
But on the other hand another fact is that Button overtook 4 people in that race rather superbly.

What, two rookies in inferior cars, Crapajima, and who else? I'd sure hope a World Champion would be capable of that...remember he did start in 14th behind a bunch of uncompetitive cars :odd: All I'm doing is calming down some of the fogged hype...

And Vettel did the same thing (maybe more on track overtakes), while Hamilton probably overtook twice that number lol.

He earnt the championship, as Lauda said, if he is called world champion, he had to have earnt it.

Well today the other guys earned it for him to be brutally honest (Truli/Sutil/Alonso incident, Webber/Raikkonen incident, Hamilton puncturing Ruben's tire). But in the end, he did a great job and it was enough to win the title..I just don't think it was all that of a impressive performance...if you don't only look at the things you want to look at, like all of the passes we saw from Button on television...while we saw limited coverage of Vettel and Hamilton's overtakes., and who knows who else.
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And no this doesn't discount the fact that he is a WDC in my book. Just think he got a bit lucky, especially when looking back at what happened during the race. But the sometimes a Champion can win by getting lucky 👍 We've seen it in the past and today we saw it again.
 
And Hamilton has KERS and Vettel also had the fastest car. How are they considered greater?

Notice I did not slag off Vettel, Hamilton, Webber or Barrichello, neither did anyone else.
Yet you feel the need to point out to everyone how Button "ain't so great".

I'd like to hear which champions didn't have an element of luck.

I'm all for being moderate in praise...but he's WDC! Thats not something you can really over-react to! Its not like its the first race he won and we're all saying how he'll be champion tomorrow.
Honestly, trying to talk down how good Button is just smacks of needless criticism, even in victory he still can't win eh?
 
Actually I think Vettel only did 2 overtakes in the race (not including the start) - he gained all his places in the pit lane.

C.
 
timeattack07gt
given that Vettel surpassed him (yet gets no mention), and Hamilton who somehow came from 18th to 3rd with an amazing drive.
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Hamilton only did that well by pitting under the safety car, getting more fuel, and getting the poorer super soft out of the way, and playing the long game. Did he overtake anyone apart from using his KERS to get past Rubens?

Vettel also had loads of fuel and was playing the long game. Who did he overtake on the track? Alguersuari and Grosjean? Wooh.

Button's strategy was inferior to both of them so he had to overtake for position, which he did brilliantly.
 
Thanks for the correction guys 👍 From what you're telling me Button's on track performance and overtaking was superior to others...so I'll leave it at that. I would think Hamilton would have gotten around more than just one person throughout the race...but I was paying too much attention to him.

The only reason I criticize Button so much is because I've never seen a Champion of late consistently under perform (more so in qualifying) so greatly in the latter part of the season.
 
Congratulations to Button on his title, I can't even imagine what must be going through his head seeing his situation a year ago. Also, Kobayashi certainly has some balls, I really hope we'll be seeing more of him. Glock-Kobayashi for 2010 anyone? (Seeing I suspect Trulli moving to Lotus for next season)
 
timeattack07gt
And no this doesn't discount the fact that he is a WDC in my book. Just think he got a bit lucky, especially when looking back at what happened during the race. But the sometimes a Champion can win by getting lucky 👍 We've seen it in the past and today we saw it again.
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You could just admit you think he doesn't deserve it instead of trying to avoid the flames.

In any case, Schumacher's engine failure in Suzuka 2006. Hamilton's gearbox problem in Interlagos 2007. Massa's fuel hose problem in Singapore 2008. And so on. You could suggest that anyone who ever won the world championship in the last two races of the season only won because of the misfortune of others.

At the end of the day, Button has more points than anyone else. Fact.

Edit: Lots of posts appeared between me starting this post and posting it, reading through them now.

daan
Vettel also had loads of fuel and was playing the long game. Who did he overtake on the track? Alguersuari and Grosjean? Wooh.
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And Barrichello, to be fair.

Edit 2: The stewards have cleared Trulli, Sutil and Kovalainen of any wrongdoings in their accident and pit problems respectively.
 
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Roo
You could just admit you think he doesn't deserve it instead of trying to avoid the flames.

In any case, Schumacher's engine failure in Suzuka 2006. Hamilton's gearbox problem in Interlagos 2007. Massa's fuel hose problem in Singapore 2008. And so on. You could suggest that anyone who ever won the world championship in the last two races of the season only won because of the misfortune of others.

At the end of the day, Button had more points than anyone else. Fact.

Edit: Lots of posts appeared between me starting this post and posting it, reading through them now.
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I agree with your points. But to me, Button has blatantly been under performing for the entire 2nd half of the season. Brawn's absolute stronghold on the field in the first half was basically what handed him the title by Turkey. I haven't seen a WDC underperform so greatly when his car's performance advantage diminished relative to the field in quite some time. If Raikkonen, Alonso, Hamilton, or Massa (the real Chamionship drivers in MY book) were driving the Brawn along side Button they would have already won the title several races ago likely...due to the fact that they wouldn't have consistently unperformed as greatly as Button has in qualifying in the latter part of the year. It just seems like the only time he can win is when his car is heads and shoulders above everyone else, especially in qualifying. Until he can win a few more races in a car that is clearly not the best of the field (which Hamilton and Raikkonen have done this year) I will hold my doubts...

Edit: In the end, I'm kind of reminded of Jauque Villeneuve's 97 WDC season. There were several drivers on the grid considered to be superior to him (Schumacher, Hakkinen, and to a lesser extent, maybe Hill)...he simply capatilized on the FW19 being the dominant car that season. How can I be a big fan of that? :lol:
 
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That said, when Brawn dominated in the first half of the season, Button won 6 races to Rubens nil - all things being equal. In the second half of the year, 5 different drivers have won races, but Button has finished in the points every time, except for Belgium where he was taken out by a rookie's blunder. Button's performances have reflected the fact that Brawn lost their massive advantage and had more of a fight in the second half of the season. Rubens and Vettel may have outscored him, but Button's consistency in the 2nd half of the season has been just as important as his dominance in the first.
 
(To timeattack07gt)

I agree. He went from Schumacher-esque to, well Button-esque basically. But even so, it paid off big time for him, and he's now the 30th (I think) World Champion. Less than three percent of all F1 Drivers can say that!
 
Didn't Barrichello exit the pit lane in front of Vettel and behind Nakajima? (As far as I recall)
 
daan
I don't recall Vettel overtaking Barrichello...
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Lap 21. Barrichello exited the pits in front of him after Rubens' first stop. Vettel got a run out of turn 5 and nailed him around the outside of Ferradura. Barrichello was on cold tyres and heavy fuel though. 1hr 32 mins into BBC's iPlayer coverage.

Edit: McLaren fined over Kovalinen's pit fire.

McLaren fined for pitlane incident

Sunday, October 18th 2009, 21:02 GMT

The McLaren team has been fined $50,000 for the Brazilian Grand Prix incident that triggered a fire in the pitlane.

Heikki Kovalainen left the pits before the fuel hose was detached from his car and the fuel spilt sprayed Kimi Raikkonen's Ferrari and caused a fire in the pitlane.

The stewards deemed Kovalainen's release had been unsafe and fined the team, also giving the driver a 25-second penalty that dropped him from ninth to 12th.
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Roo
Lap 21. Barrichello exited the pits in front of him after Rubens' first stop. Vettel got a run out of turn 5 and nailed him around the outside of Ferradura. Barrichello was on cold tyres and heavy fuel though. 1hr 32 mins into BBC's iPlayer coverage.
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Vettel is something else when it came to trying to overtake someone on the outside at turn 5. Almost went up in tears the first time he tried it with Nakajima. Then he tried it again and succeeded with Rubens.
 
daan
Fixed :D

Just remembered about Webber's move on Kimi too. If Kobayashi gets flak for his incident with Nakajima, then so should Webber.
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👍

And did he changed his line again when Kimi came from the left?
 
Roo
Lap 21. Barrichello exited the pits in front of him after Rubens' first stop. Vettel got a run out of turn 5 and nailed him around the outside of Ferradura. Barrichello was on cold tyres and heavy fuel though. 1hr 32 mins into BBC's iPlayer coverage.
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So he did. Forgotten about that one.
 
L_Hamilton
Vettel is something else when it came to trying to overtake someone on the outside at turn 5. Almost went up in tears the first time he tried it with Nakajima. Then he tried it again and succeeded with Rubens.
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That move on Rubins was extremely awesome. And good driving from Rubins too, for not driving too wide into Vettel. 👍
 
sejtur
That move on Rubins was extremely awesome. And good driving from Rubins too, for not driving too wide into Vettel. 👍
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Only comes from experience. Not to try and keep the position with cold tires and what might have been disastrous for the both of them.
 
L_Hamilton
Only comes from experience. Not to try and keep the position with cold tires and what might have been disastrous for the both of them.
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Yea, but still, he didn't get too much room from Vettel. Easy to make a mistake in such cold tire conditions, even with expierience. Plus it was an unusual corner to get overtaken.
 

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