2009 German Grand Prix

I think you all mean when they both ran into each other and had a racing incident.

Astonishing as it may seem, the blame can be apportioned to more than one driver...
 
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I didn't see anyone else take a tighter turn on the first corner of their out lap so I don't think Sutil could have avoided that. Kimi could have done though, if he could see out of the side of his car that is. Racing incident it is then.
 
If anything more of the blame should be placed on Sutil. He simply drove into Kimi exiting the corner, even though Kimi gave him PLENTY of room. The line Sutil took showed that he had intentions of using the entire road upon exiting, without any prior or adequate awareness of Kimi or other cars around him. I've sat here and already watched the replay 5 times at least in all fairness :dopey: I still believe it was a simple racing accident that deserves nothing more than a slap on the wrist...but to say it was entirely Kimi's fault is complete blasphemy :lol:
 
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timeattack07gt
If anything more of the blame should be placed on Sutil. He simply drove into Kimi exiting the corner, even though Kimi gave him PLENTY of room. The line Sutil took showed that he had intentions of using the entire road upon exiting, without any awareness of Kimi or any other cars around him. I've sat here and already watched the replay 5 times at least in all fairness :dopey: I still believe it was a simple racing accident that should get nothing more than a slap on the wrist...but to say it was entirely Kimi's fault is complete blasphemy :lol:
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But Sutil didn't know Kimi was there, as Martin Brundle has said, you can't see anything in your mirrors when you come out of the pitlane, hence why you depend on a marshal to wave a blue flag to tell you cars are behind - but that doesn't tell you that they are jumping around the outside.
Its neither driver's fault, Kimi jumped out of Sutil's blind spot and had no reason to think whether or not Sutil could see him - racing incident.
 
mipuumal
I think you meant Sutil running in to Kimi.
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Roo
I think you all mean when they both ran into each other and had a racing incident.

Astonishing as it may seem, the blame can be apportioned to more than one driver...
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I know it was just a racing incident and no one's fault, but I'm still blaming Kimi... :dopey:
 
Ardius
But Sutil didn't know Kimi was there, as Martin Brundle has said, you can't see anything in your mirrors when you come out of the pitlane, hence why you depend on a marshal to wave a blue flag to tell you cars are behind - but that doesn't tell you that they are jumping around the outside.
Its neither driver's fault, Kimi jumped out of Sutil's blind spot and had no reason to think whether or not Sutil could see him - racing incident.
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Very true, but they both have teams with monitors that "could" alert either or both and probably did. So to say its a racing incident, is a likely truth, Sutil could have given a little,(with the aid of his team) to insure Force India's first points though.

All the ifs, buts and maybes are ever present in the art of racing.
 
Kimi seems to be Sutil's worst enemy - whenever he's in the points - he comes along and wipes him out...

I still can't believe what happened in Moncao last year...

C.
 
JohnBM01
Cardinal sin committed- I looked at the ESPN/ABC Bottom Line for Auto news... and the race was spoiled for me as I now know who won the German GP before the race on FOX (which happens shortly) shows off who won. Thanks, ESPN/ABC!
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Whenever you watch a taped-delay broadcast, you have to avoid all sports programming, as of late; a mark of F1's ever-so-slightly increasing popularity in America. Still, you'll rarely hear people talk about it in a public place, although my buddys have occasionally spoiled an event or two for me (now they're nice enough to ask if I'd seen it first).

Congrats to Mark Webber; another former Minardi driver becoming a Grand Prix winner...makes me proud.

As much as I hate to say it, Adrian Sutil threw away a great chance today, and it isn't the first time it's happened this year. I was rooting for him all race long, and excited about his chances after qualifying.
 
yeti
I still can't believe what happened in Moncao last year...

C.
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Most people like to forget the fact that Sutil was going to get a post-race time penalty in Monaco, which would've dropped him out of the points, because he had passed 2 cars under a yellow flag.

If it had been Hamilton doing that move, everyone would've been saying what a brilliant, "Senna-esque" & opportunistic move it was and that Sutil is a n00b.
 
mipuumal
Most people like to forget the fact that Sutil was going to get a post-race time penalty in Monaco, which would've dropped him out of the points, because he had passed 2 cars under a yellow flag.

If it had been Hamilton doing that move, everyone would've been saying what a brilliant, "Senna-esque" & opportunistic move it was and that Sutil is a n00b.
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I didn't forget that - I was totally unaware of it... not sure that ITV picked up on that at the time... either that or it happened in an adbreak!!

C.
 
Well, here's what Adrian Sutil had to say about the incident.

"I knew he was there as my engineer Brad had told me to watch the white line and that he was coming when I was on the way out of the pit lane," Sutil, who rounded the corner on the inside, explained. "I entered the corner first. Kimi tried the outside, which was okay, but there was plenty more space - he could have gone to the side, because I was on new tyres and it was really slippery.

"I couldn't have made any crazy moves, otherwise I would have lost my car. When you see my on-board, I took the corner normally - I tried to push to be able to have a good exit but I was quite limited when I was already on the inside for the braking for Turn 1. If I didn't try to accelerate out of the corner it wouldn't have been racing anymore, I might well have just waved him by and said 'come on, pass me please!' - you have to defend your position."

The touch forced Sutil to pit again in order for repairs, as Räikkönen continued only to retire later with engine problems as a result of a punctured radiator grill. "We spoke about it and everybody agreed that it was a racing incident," Sutil continued. "It's a shame as, at the time, I was just behind Massa who went on to finish third; obviously, some drivers made good progress in the second half of the race, so I think seventh or eighth position would have been possible…I think points, definitely."
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Source: http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/07/14/sutil-spoke-with-raikkonen-after-incident/
 
We can at least agree that Adrian finally proved himself in the dry and clearly showed he has what it takes to run consistently at the top. Force India have to get points at some point this season, they are getting so, so close.

Edit:
And a great video/audio here of what its like to be an F1 presenter with all the earpiece stuff:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/jakehumphrey/2009/07/an_earpiece_of_the_action.html

Hopefully someone will be kind enough to make a copy onto youtube for the non-UK people, as its good stuff!
 
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If I didn't try to accelerate out of the corner it wouldn't have been racing anymore, I might well have just waved him by and said 'come on, pass me please!' - you have to defend your position.
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Hmm...racing or being in the points? I wonder which his team would have preferred. I guess Kimi and Sutil are even now, though Kimi's incident at Monaco was more accidental.

But it looks like it will be a long time before Sutil gets in the points with that attitude.
 
^So you're saying he shouldn't be a racing driver? He shouldn't defend his position?
If Kimi hadn't gone for the outside and hadn't got past, I imagine Sutil would now be praised for his great driving, but because it didn't work out now he suddenly has a bad attitude?
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Ardius
^So you're saying he shouldn't be a racing driver? He shouldn't defend his position?
If Kimi hadn't gone for the outside and hadn't got past, I imagine Sutil would now be praised for his great driving, but because it didn't work out now he suddenly has a bad attitude?
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I think he should use a bit of strategy instead of being in full attack mode every time, especially when he's exiting the pits. He got into the points, so why not try to keep them instead of gambling on running Kimi wide?

edit: I was always under the impression that the burden of safely merging was on the person exiting the pits.
 
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ROAD_DOGG33J
edit: I was always under the impression that the burden of safely merging was on the person exiting the pits.
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He was well out of the pits by the time the incident happened...

Personally - I thought he wasn't as aggressive as he could've been out of the pits - if he'd gone for it a bit sooner - Kimi might not have looked at the chance in the first place...

C.
 
ROAD_DOGG33J
I think he should use a bit of strategy instead of being in full attack mode every time, especially when he's exiting the pits. He got into the points, so why not try to keep them instead of gambling on running Kimi wide?

edit: I was always under the impression that the burden of safely merging was on the person exiting the pits.
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The incident happened way after turn 1 so thats a null and void point. He didn't know Kimi was there, how many times does this have to be repeated? He wasn't trying to run Kimi wide, Kimi had jumped at a chance and Adrian simply stuck to his normal line, which unfortunately ran into Kimi at the last moment.
Adrian wasn't being massively aggressive, Kimi was the one being aggressive (and rightly so).

There is a rather big blind spot for the drivers from the direct side to the rear of the car where the mirrors don't show and he can't physically turn his head to see, and this is what caught Sutil out - sure normally he would have expected Kimi to be there, but he didn't know Kimi had jumped round the outside. Hence racing incident, neither driver did anything wrong and I disagree Adrian could have done anything or that he was being aggressive beyond defending his position.
 
yeti
He was well out of the pits by the time the incident happened...
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The merge isn't finished after he exits the pits...

Ardius
The incident happened way after turn 1 so thats a null and void point. He didn't know Kimi was there, how many times does this have to be repeated? He wasn't trying to run Kimi wide, Kimi had jumped at a chance and Adrian simply stuck to his normal line, which unfortunately ran into Kimi at the last moment.
Adrian wasn't being massively aggressive, Kimi was the one being aggressive (and rightly so).
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But he could have expected Kimi to be there and left some room and voila he's in the points. Instead now he's making excuses that if he did give him room it wouldn't be racing.
 
ROAD_DOGG33J
But he could have expected Kimi to be there and left some room and voila he's in the points. Instead now he's making excuses that if he did give him room it wouldn't be racing.
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Well it wouldn't be, its a competition, not a dinner. As much as the drivers should be gentleman-like, they are also racing for victory, you don't go into a corner thinking "I wonder if someone is on my outside, better give lots of room just in case!", that would be rediculous - you'd be leaving a massive door open to be passed. If they weren't racing for position, I'd agree with this, but seeing as Sutil had everything to gain by staying ahead of Kimi, he was perfectly within his rights to try to defend his position.
I think its excellent to see that today's drivers aren't the slow, non-risk taking drivers they sometimes are depicted as compared to the drivers of late. I'd much rather see drivers taking risks to earn more points than driving around single-file. This bodes well for Sutil in future, as it shows hes willing to fight for positions and not just settle for what he's got.
 
I missed the race and the recap. Can someone help me find a video of the full race online?
 

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