2009 Spanish Grand Prix

[Famine]

I am not suggesting that there is favouritism (however I would not rule it out).

I wasn't aiming that part of my post at you, rather the BBC.

However, Rubens was on the best strategy - as acknowledged by the premier tactician in F1 history AND Rubens AND his race engineer AND Jenson Button. Both drivers were on this strategy initially and both drivers knew there was a backup strategy. That doesn't sound like one driver is being favoured at the expense of the other, or a team where secrets are kept to prevent one driver from performing as well as he can.

I am pointing out that no one else 3-stopped. I find that surprising, that Rubens, his engineer and all the strategists including Brawn himself, could not see this as a necessary to enforce the 2-stop strategy onto Rubens.

The 3 stop strategy was superior. Look at all the cars Rubens finished ahead of... Brawn, Barrichello, Button all agree - 3 stops was the optimum strategy.

Button just made a 2 stopper work.

I appreciate that Rubens didn't perform as was expected, but I can't help but feel if he was put onto a 2-stop then he would have won.

It's marginally more likely that if he was put onto a 2-stop he wouldn't have even made the podium.

I certainly wouldn't presume to second-guess Ross Brawn's tactics!

 

[Peter]

It's really no t a matter of favoritism, just that Button is faster, and Brawn want him to keep the lead by letting him win more races than Barrichello so no one else ca catch them up, like Vettel who has been a challenge for the Brawn team.

 

[Famine]

It's really no t a matter of favoritism, just that Button is faster, and Brawn want him to keep the lead by letting him win more races than Barrichello so no one else ca catch them up

A claim which has been denied by everyone at Brawn and which, if it were true, would lead to Barrichello retiring now (he has gone on record to state this).

The Brawn team's goal is the Constructor's title. Until one of their drivers has no mathematical chance of winning the Driver's title, both will be given equal support and put on the best strategies that the best strategist can come up with.

It so happens that Jenson has finished ahead of Rubens in every race so far run. From FIVE races of SEVENTEEN. There's a long, long way to go until one of them can't take the title - and Brawn's ideal position would be a final race shoot-out between the pair of them for it (since they'd have already sewn up the Constructor's title in that event).

 

[Ardius]

It's really no t a matter of favoritism, just that Button is faster, and Brawn want him to keep the lead by letting him win more races than Barrichello so no one else ca catch them up, like Vettel who has been a challenge for the Brawn team.

I'm sorry but I can't help but point out some obvious irony.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

A claim which has been denied by everyone at Brawn and which, if it were true, would lead to Barrichello retiring now (he has gone on record to state this).

The Brawn team's goal is the Constructor's title. Until one of their drivers has no mathematical chance of winning the Driver's title, both will be given equal support and put on the best strategies that the best strategist can come up with.

It so happens that Jenson has finished ahead of Rubens in every race so far run. From FIVE races of SEVENTEEN. There's a long, long way to go until one of them can't take the title - and Brawn's ideal position would be a final race shoot-out between the pair of them for it (since they'd have already sewn up the Constructor's title in that event).

And Ross Brawn has come out and said that he thinks it's a good thing that Barrichello feels the way he does about the outcome in Spain because it means he's not content to play second to Button.

Honestly, I just think people are looking for evidence of a conspiracy now that the FIA has given McLaren a favourable hearing, thus ending their theory of the governing body consistently having it in for the Woking-based team. They may also be trying to turn Brawn into the new Ferrari, because everyone loves to hate the guys who are consistently out the front.

Just out of curiosity: what is the earliest date that Button can take the championship?

 

[Alltidxx]

"Timo Glock was surprised to discover that his grid girl for the Spanish Grand Prix was a man. Holding the placard bearing his race number in Barcelona was Thomas, a model from London. 'I've never seen that before,' the Toyota driver smiled. 'At least a girl is holding the German flag,' Glock added."

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090511200051.shtml

First new rules, then Ferrari sits in the garage and miss out on Q2 twice and then some more racism and now moving on to discrimination remarks

 

[Famine]

Just out of curiosity: what is the earliest date that Button can take the championship?

Technically he could have already won it, if a certain set of intensely unlikely and bizarre results happen - or, ironically, if FOTA had accepted Bernie's "most-races-won" plan

Assuming Brawn 1-2s to the end of the year, he'd win it at Singapore (14 of 17)

 

[mipuumal]

The 3 stop strategy was superior. Look at all the cars Rubens finished ahead of... Brawn, Barrichello, Button all agree - 3 stops was the optimum strategy.

Button just made a 2 stopper work.

The last time anyone has won with a planned 3-stop (not a funny rain race) was 2005 Hungary I believe (not counting Magny-Cours or Montreal because of the short pitlanes), so why would the 3 stop suddenly be optimal?

 

[Blake]

Because of the hard tyres in the last stint that are 2s a lap slower. Essentially you're doing a 2 stop race that is 8 laps shorter than the full distance then throwing on the rubbish tyres for as short a period as you can.

 

[Famine]

The last time anyone has won with a planned 3-stop (not a funny rain race) was 2005 Hungary I believe (not counting Magny-Cours or Montreal because of the short pitlanes), so why would the 3 stop suddenly be optimal?

British I may be, but Ross Brawn I am not.

His numbers - confirmed by Jenson and Rubens and their individual race directors - said that for the 2009 Spanish Grand Prix, a 3-stop strategy was optimal.

The difference, it seems, was Jenson's performance on the slower (much) hard tyres - his fastest hard lap was 0.5s quicker than Rubens, while their fastest soft laps were within a tenth (in Rubens' favour).

 

[Tired Tyres]

A three stopper would be quicker as you carry less fuel and therefore go faster. This allows you to disappear into a nice big lead at the start. If it can be calculated that you won't be held up behind a slower car after you pitstops then you're on to a winner. The problem is being stuck behind a slower car. That can't be confirmed until the race is under way as that's the time when places change the most with good starts, bad starts, collisions and safety car periods. That is why strategies change.

 

[Earth]

It looked like they hurt Ruben's chances on purpose to me

Ever since the ban on teams fixing the race results I have seen probably half a dozen situations where the teammate higher in the points miraculously finishes ahead of the other even though at the start of the race the other has the track position/speed advantage.

I know this situation will pop up again, and once again Jenson Button will finish ahead of Ruebens.

If Barrichello wants another win he better hope Button runs into trouble, otherwise he's going to finish off his career pulling over for the #1 just like he did for Schumacher.

 

[Ardius]

So, let me get this straight, you think Brawn intentionally made sure one of his drivers didn't win, possibly throwing away all of the points just so Jenson had a bigger lead?
You clearly don't know Ross Brawn....

 

[Famine]

It looked like they hurt Ruben's chances on purpose to me.

And yet the reality is that Rubens doesn't think so (otherwise he'd have quit) and was so convinced he was on the right strategy that he was mystified how he didn't win.


Everyone involved says that Rubens was on the best strategy - including Rubens. In fact, he finished just 13s behind Jenson - compared to 37 at Bahrain, 19 at Shanghai and 47 at Malaysia (and Australia was under safety car conditions).

Could it be that Jenson is just plain faster so far this season and that Rubens lost despite his superior strategy? The fact he was 0.5s a lap faster on hard tyres suggest that this is the case.

 

[Earth]

So, let me get this straight, you think Brawn intentionally made sure one of his drivers didn't win, possibly throwing away all of the points just so Jenson had a bigger lead?
You clearly don't know Ross Brawn....

And yet the reality is that Rubens doesn't think so (otherwise he'd have quit) and was so convinced he was on the right strategy that he was mystified how he didn't win.


Everyone involved says that Rubens was on the best strategy - including Rubens. In fact, he finished just 13s behind Jenson - compared to 37 at Bahrain, 19 at Shanghai and 47 at Malaysia (and Australia was under safety car conditions).

Could it be that Jenson is just plain faster so far this season and that Rubens lost despite his superior strategy? The fact he was 0.5s a lap faster on hard tyres suggest that this is the case.

A similar situation will no doubt arise later in the season, and if the result are the same, as in Ruebens leading for the first part of the race while Jenson overtakes him later on through pit strategy or catches him from far back thanks to some miraculous burst of speed then it will be obvious they are fixing the results.

 

[Touring Mars]

Could it be that Jenson is just plain faster so far this season and that Rubens lost despite his superior strategy? The fact he was 0.5s a lap faster on hard tyres suggest that this is the case.

But.. but, that would mean there was no conspiracy... and then what would be left to talk about?

 

[Ardius]

A similar situation will no doubt arise later in the season, and if the result are the same, as in Ruebens leading for the first part of the race while Jenson overtakes him later on through pit strategy or catches him from far back thanks to some miraculous burst of speed then it will be obvious they are fixing the results.

I imagine it will if it comes to the end of the season....that makes sense and happens every year, and in that case Rubens wouldn't mind, because we'd assume he isn't in the championship hunt and I think he would like to see Jenson win if he can't.
If Rubens still is by the end of the year though, Ross will just let them have at it, because he will already have the constructors by then (probably).

But to suggest they would fix results at only the 5th race and potentially ruin their points tally...thats crazy.

 

[Famine]

Especially as Rubens - a man used to not being allowed to perform the best he can - has said that if he has any inkling that Jenson was being favoured, he would quit.

Has he quit yet? No?

 

[Tornado]

You know, I didn't see the race (Because really, what's the point? It was the Spanish GP.), but I'm sure there is some kind of conspiracy that has been in place since the start of the season. I bet Brawn even borrowed Todt's inspirational opus "Scuderia Ferrari Management Handbook, 2002 Revised" when he started his team (or took it with him when he left Ferrari).

 

[Ardius]

I bet a million more rubbish excuses to keep the conspiracy going are made if Rubens wins in 2 weeks time....

 

[blinky77]

You know, I didn't see the race (Because really, what's the point? It was the Spanish GP.), but I'm sure there is some kind of conspiracy that has been in place since the start of the season. I bet Brawn even borrowed Todt's inspirational opus "Scuderia Ferrari Management Handbook, 2002 Revised" when he started his team (or took it with him when he left Ferrari).

You do realize you're part of a horrible cancer that's been ruining F1 since 1994 when you mention ham-fisted and desperate conspiracy theories that haven't been proven, don't you? 👎

Rubens had a chance to go much faster than Button with a different strategy and he didn't. That's all.

 

[Famine]

That's a bit (Mark Webber) harsh, isn't it?

 

[Hun200kmh]

That's a bit (Mark Webber) harsh, isn't it?

And that was (Mark Webber) funny !!!

 

[Tornado]

You do realize you're part of a horrible cancer that's been ruining F1 since 1994 when you mention ham-fisted and desperate conspiracy theories that haven't been proven, don't you?

So long as it has butter on it, I'm okay with that.


That you didn't get the joke (I used the words inspirational opus!) makes me fear that some people think what I posted is actually true.

 

[Alltidxx]

No. We're not doing this.

I know I'm sick of seeing people falling over themselves to make the next F1 race thread and I suspect many of this particular forum's regulars are also. But two weeks ahead of the race? You're having a bubble, surely?

Why is there no F1 2009 Season sticky thread I wonder...?

 

[daan]

Why is there no F1 2009 Season sticky thread I wonder...?

Because we have the whole of the F1 forum in which to talk about the other happenings of the F1 season.

 

[LancerEvo7]

And that was (Mark Webber) funny !!!

I finally got the (Mark Webber) joke!👍

 

[Sureboss]

You're all off your (Mark Webber) heads.