2010 Formula One European Grand Prix

[dxm8975]

I recorded the entire race of European GP when it was broadcasted on TV and watched it yesterday, there are 2 things that surprised me while I was watching the race.

1, I was very amazed to see Mark Webber hit Heikki Kovalainen and his car flew in the air striking the plate and finally ended up hitting the tyre barrior.

2, Kamui Kobayashi overtook as many as 2 cars at the very end of the race though I hadn't seen him pass a car, besides one of them was Fernando Alonso, who became the world champion in 2005 and 2006 and beat Schumacher. I think He's getting better little by little as he experiences each race to be held every year.

 

[niky]

It doesn't help that Alonso once won a race because of a safety car which was in fact gifted by his teammate. When asked if he felt it wasn't a worthwhile win, he said "a win is a win". Basically he didn't care because he won, but turn the tables around and "wah".

Let's not forget the other results of that incident. While it's debatable whether he had knowledge of the plan beforehand or not, he was extremely lucky to get away from that scot-free and untarnished.

 

[Radracing]

^You still end up with lapped cars in this scenario, as we have just discussed. Vettel and almost Hamilton had already overtaken the safety car as it was deployed. Therefore that puts them 1 lap ahead.
There is no way around solving this problem other than perhaps making the lead car a temporary safety car like I suggested.

Yes, but like I said once the full course yellow flag comes out everybody stays in the position they were in regardless if the safety car comes out before or after the lead cars. The safety car just needs to catch up with the lead car and everything is back to normal until they are all released when the safety car dives back into the pit lane and the racing is resumed. Doesen't this sound fair and simple.

You make a good point Radracing; if the incident with the Red Bull and the Lotus was more serious and someone was injured, do you think Alonso and Ferrari would still be right to cry like little babies?

It's not about fairness at all, it will never and should never be fair, it's a sport after all.

Whatever happened to the saying, "You beating them fair and square" or "Wining it fair and square" If every sport was designed to be unfair I don't think many people would join in to compete if the oponent always has the advantage.

 

[F1 fan]

1, I was very amazed to see Mark Webber hit Heikki Kovalainen and his car flew in the air striking the plate and finally ended up hitting the tyre barrior.

Yeah. It was pretty scary.

2, Kamui Kobayashi overtook as many as 2 cars at the very end of the race though I hadn't seen him pass a car, besides one of them was Fernando Alonso, who became the world champion in 2005 and 2006 and beat Schumacher. I think He's getting better little by little as he experiences each race to be held every year.

Yeah but Kobayashi pitted with 4 laps to go, therefore he was on fresh tyres while the rest had run the majority of the race distance on their tyres.

It was still an impressive performance from Kobayashi though. He was great with Toyota last year(although a little controversial in brazil with his move on Nakajima) and has started to show great promise this year. I just hope he can build on it and go on to win a grand prix at some point in his career... I think it's overdue from a japanese driver.

If you're not aware of it, you should check out Takuma Sato overtaking Alonso back in canada 07. Similar situation with the tyres, but still worth checking out.

 

[Famine]

It doesn't help that Alonso once won a race because of a safety car which was in fact gifted by his teammate. When asked if he felt it wasn't a worthwhile win, he said "a win is a win". Basically he didn't care because he won, but turn the tables around and "wah".

Let's not forget the other results of that incident. While it's debatable whether he had knowledge of the plan beforehand or not, he was extremely lucky to get away from that scot-free and untarnished.

And speaking of that incident, look who's got something to say about cheating and safety cars...

 

[Fastas]

And speaking of that incident, look who's got something to say about cheating and safety cars...

What a surprise

I'm off down to the bookies to put some money on my premonition that Flav will be the next manager at Ferrari. To increase the odds I'm also going to bet that after continued investigations into 'fairness' due to Ferrari complaints, all cars will be homologated and painted red of course. I'm then going to buy Sicily and put an end to this crap

 

[niky]

And speaking of that incident, look who's got something to say about cheating and safety cars...

There are no words to describe the irony of that press statement.

 

[Seismica]

What I meant was that he went over the radio saying "Vettel hit me" and it sounded (imo) like a cry for a penalty. Then later on he apologised to vettel... If he's apologising to vettel in the first place he's acknowledging that he was in the wrong, so shouldn't he have instead said "I hit vettel" over the radio? Besides, his final race position (2nd) wasn't bad. It's how he got it that was bad.

Hamilton jumped up the inside of Vettel who held his line. When Vettel was faced with the choice of hitting the wall or hitting hamilton, he chose the latter. Hamilton even apologised for the incident which was ultimately caused by him putting a move on vettel.

Just remember reading this, and I agreed at the time.

But I just watched the replay... and Hamilton went too deep trying to overtake at turn 2, when he made wheel contact with Vettel. Then he pulled to the right and Vettel moved across after the corner exit to cut him off throught the quick right hander, despite having the inside line into the next braking zone. That second contact is what Hamilton was referring to, not the initial contact mid-corner.

So Vettel did hit him.

 

[Ardius]

If you can remember, Hamilton had contact damage on his front wing and it didn't come from turn 1. I think his radio call "Vettel hit me" was more to warn the team to look for any drop in performance due to damage rather than asking for penalties.
But that is obviously how I read it. I can see how it sounds like he was pointing the finger, maybe he was, but it could also simply be Lewis worrying about battle damage.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

but it could also simply be Lewis worrying about battle damage.

That's what I read it as.

But it also reminded me of that story Coulthard told about Hakkinen never accepting blame.

 

[niky]

Of course, since it didn't really change the race for either driver, neither actually expressed bad feelings towards the other about the incident afterwards. Or... at least not when they were smiling up there on the podium and in the press con.

 

[Ardius]

That's what I read it as.

But it also reminded me of that story Coulthard told about Hakkinen never accepting blame.

Racing drivers don't accept blame or defeat easily. Some say thats what makes a champion, to never allow any chance of questioning your own ability with blame. Certainly belief in yourself is vital to winning, but some drivers take it too far - this is why you will never see Vettel apologise or accept any blame (partial or not) for Turkey.
This is why we should applaud the drivers who do accept blame, because its a bit of a rarity sadly at times.

Edit:
Just found an onboard of Button's start which half-explains Webber's massive drop through the field (we still don't know how the Williams got past him):

 

[chromatic9]

BBC F1 forum is up. 12 minutes worth before the power cuts.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8768436.stm

 

[homeforsummer]

Great onboard vid of Button, Ardius. He has quite the knack of incredibly close but utterly contact-free racing. Pretty much justifies my comments in the other thread about him being one of F1's top overtakers.

 

[Seismica]

So the likelihood is, Kubica forced his way past Webber? That is what it looks like from here. Webber and Button were side by side in the braking zone, how in the hell did Kubica fit down the inside?

I'm not a fan of Webber or the Red Bulls... but i'm beginning to like Kubica less and less.

 

[Ardius]

Why do you like Kubica less and less? He's a great driver, and that was great racing between him and Button.
I'd argue both of them are the most likable drivers out of the top teams.

Webber's first lap was shocking, just looking at the video - how early was he braking?

 

[Seismica]

Why do you like Kubica less and less? He's a great driver, and that was great racing between him and Button.
I'd argue both of them are the most likable drivers out of the top teams.

Webber's first lap was shocking, just looking at the video - how early was he braking?

I'm starting to dislike Kubica because of how aggressive he is sometimes. He's still right up there among my favourites and has been for a couple of seasons now because of how talented he is. But his move on Kobayashi in Spain and his move on Webber here just shout reckless to me. I'm sure there are other incidents that have slipped my mind too.

 

[Shark33]

Kubica is very good, but not too aggressive.

 

[Ardius]

I'm starting to dislike Kubica because of how aggressive he is sometimes. He's still right up there among my favourites and has been for a couple of seasons now because of how talented he is. But his move on Kobayashi in Spain and his move on Webber here just shout reckless to me. I'm sure there are other incidents that have slipped my mind too.

Too aggressive? We didn't even see his move here against Webber, so I don't get why you think that. All we saw was Mark magically transform into Robert after 1 corner.
And the Kobayashi incident at Spain was a simple racing incident - Kamui turned slightly into him and Robert was already committed to the corner. These things happen on the 1st lap.

If anyone is aggressive and reckless, its Mark Webber, as we have seen this season.

 

[F1 fan]

Just remember reading this, and I agreed at the time.

But I just watched the replay... and Hamilton went too deep trying to overtake at turn 2, when he made wheel contact with Vettel. Then he pulled to the right and Vettel moved across after the corner exit to cut him off throught the quick right hander, despite having the inside line into the next braking zone. That second contact is what Hamilton was referring to, not the initial contact mid-corner.

So Vettel did hit him.

Ah... Forgive me, I don't currently have the internet or any form of recording equipment otherwise I'd be able to analyse incidents like this.

I have to use the internet at a public library and just about every site I could visit to have a second look at things (like youtube) is blocked. Can't watch GT videos either... Kinda sucks.

The delay of the radio transmission can sometimes throw you off too. If Hamilton was talking about a second incident with vettel, which I don't believe we saw on the bbc's coverage, then that explains it. I just assumed he was talking about the 1st incident as I didn't see anything else.

I'm a little annoyed with the bbc's coverage this season. Don't get me wrong, the bbc has been brilliant overall. But there have been a few high profile incidents that we haven't even seen a replay of. I don't remember this happening very often last year.

Don't know if anyone else noticed, but when they joined the commentary box and played that video, (the one they always play when joining the commentary box) you could hear Legard cough into his microphone. Surprised revved up (funny column in autosport) didn't jump all over him for that. They've been pretty brutal towards Legard.

I'm not his biggest fan, but credit where it's due. It's a difficult job and he does it reasonably well. In truth, there's little to complain about... It's not like there are adverts anymore... Which ITV had a habit of placing in the most inconvenient place possible. But if there's any way of giving feedback to the bbc, I think we should have "split screen" replays. That way they can keep up with the race while showing us replays.

Would be nice to actually have seen how Webber ended up where he did.

BBC F1 forum is up. 12 minutes worth before the power cuts.

Wonder if they cut out the bit where Mark Webber swore... That's when you know Mark is ok after a crash. If he manages to swear on live tv, he's fine.

I'm starting to dislike Kubica because of how aggressive he is sometimes. He's still right up there among my favourites and has been for a couple of seasons now because of how talented he is. But his move on Kobayashi in Spain and his move on Webber here just shout reckless to me. I'm sure there are other incidents that have slipped my mind too.

His move on Sutil in Canada was pretty daft as well. You know, when he dived past Sutil into the pit lane and Adrian wasn't even pitting. In the worst of circumstances, that could have been similar to Zanardi's accident.

Is it really worth taking that chance?

 

[Ardius]

But if there's any way of giving feedback to the bbc, I think we should have "split screen" replays. That way they can keep up with the race while showing us replays.

You can always email the BBC team.

But keep in mind the BBC do not control the feed - they are not the ones who show the replays or the cameras. They simply get given the feed by FOM (Formula One Management) - who supply it worldwide. Any issues with camera choices, replays, etc is an FOM issue, not BBC.
The BBC only produce the camera work before and after the race, but the race footage is all FOM.

I don't think its possible for the BBC to show the race and a replay seperately - they are the same feed. They could possibly show the onboard feed (found on the red button) alongside but again, this is not operated by them.